Here we go.

[URL]http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.9776268a25e75ad5b44b4d87e8a32a02.4a1&show_article=1[/URL]

Smoke Signal

Re: Russia thinking of using Venezuela and Cuba as Airfields for Bombers

I guess the want to put pressure on America and Europe to do things their way in Europe with respect to which nations join the EU...you know, not to bug them when they slap their small neighbors around. Either that, or Russia thinks that another Cuban missile crisis would be funny.

Re: Russia thinking of using Venezuela and Cuba as Airfields for Bombers

they could be testing Obama

US sending ships to south china sea as well.

[URL]http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article5898650.ece[/URL]

If China doesn't trust US treasuries anymore they could be the ones behind all of this.

Re: Russia thinking of using Venezuela and Cuba as Airfields for Bombers

I really don't see a problem with any of this...we all know that all the nations have all these weapons but when they are mentioned in the news we all get upset? The US has bases all over the world has planes, boats, submarines etc paroling the whole world but when the Russkies move it must be hostile? I would be far worried about their actions in the middle east and in ex soviet republics than near the US border...remember that if anyone should feel threatened its them...they are the ones fighting against the NWO :)

edit: Let me read the second article... Its not so bad...I mean this kinda shit has happened before...IMHO you are just putting it together when they are pretty much completely disconnected.

Re: Russia thinking of using Venezuela and Cuba as Airfields for Bombers

[quote=Shpira;722102]I really don't see a problem with any of this...we all know that all the nations have all these weapons but when they are mentioned in the news we all get upset? The US has bases all over the world has planes, boats, submarines etc paroling the whole world but when the Russkies move it must be hostile? I would be far worried about their actions in the middle east and in ex soviet republics than near the US border...remember that if anyone should feel threatened its them...they are the ones fighting against the NWO :)

edit: Let me read the second article... Its not so bad...I mean this kinda shit has happened before...IMHO you are just putting it together when they are pretty much completely disconnected.[/quote] All the major powers have global reach with their military, but setting up military bases right on their borders is a provocative step that is likely to provoke a strong reaction.

And this report is actually highly connected with what's going on in Europe. Remember Russia's recent anger at the US-sponsored Missile Defense Shield in Europe? The way that Poland and the Czech Republic agreed to have radar systems and missiles installed on their territory? And the support that the West is giving to the Ukraine, Georgia, and South Ossetia?

Those were all actions that the Russians consider the equivalent of developing military installation on or close to their borders, and they don't like it. And what they're saying is, "Fine. If you do that to us in Europe, we'll do something similar to you here in your hemisphere and see how you like it." It provides for good negotiation leverage.

Re: Russia thinking of using Venezuela and Cuba as Airfields for Bombers

The Missile Shield in Europe is not gonna be built...as for south Osetia thats gone the Russians have started building bases and the US didn't do much...Ukraine is already on a tight leash from Moscow... I don't know I think these are all challenges to US dominance and I see them as a natural thing...I mean the US will not stay the only super power forever...

p.s. peaceful co-existence dominated by one nation is not peaceful co-existence there needs to be more dialogue about international issues and less unilateralism... the Russians feel that they are uprightly ignored for all global issues and are showing that they too can flex military might like the US has been doing for the past 10-15 years and more intensively in GWB era...I mean we can debate this for ever all that I am saying is that these actions are natural and shouldn't be seen as hostile. The US has bases all around Russia; Turkey, Japan...ex soviet republics and Europe...

Re: Russia thinking of using Venezuela and Cuba as Airfields for Bombers

they are hostile. They aren't having bombers come over from russia full of ice cream and cake. It is a threat. Basically you are saying the Cuban missile crisis never happened or wasn't really that bad. Remember the Union between Russia, Iran, North Korea, China and Venezuela. This is a MAJOR step toward world war. Remember what Soros said about the nations fighting the new order. Funny they all seem to be banning together.

Putin also wiped his ass with Obama's plan to help agianst Iran.

Also eveything is connected.

Re: Russia thinking of using Venezuela and Cuba as Airfields for Bombers

[quote=Shpira;722111]I mean we can debate this for ever all that I am saying is that these actions are natural and shouldn't be seen as hostile. The US has bases all around Russia; Turkey, Japan...ex soviet republics and Europe...[/quote] Obviously they are hostile. And Chavez hates the US with a passion.

And those bases mainly came into existence precisely in response to wide-scale Russian aggression after World War II. The US has unfortunately been aggressive as well in the post-war period, but not anything close to the scale of the Soviets under Stalin and his successors.

Re: Russia thinking of using Venezuela and Cuba as Airfields for Bombers

no this is different from the missile crisis...I am not saying its nothing but its not as serious as you are making it to be and no I don't see the two stories as connected, if china wanted to fuck the US they would just sell all US bonds and US currency and shred the US economy into bits.

Re: Russia thinking of using Venezuela and Cuba as Airfields for Bombers

[quote=Miroslav;722120]

And those bases mainly came into existence precisely in response to wide-scale Russian aggression after World War II. The US has unfortunately been aggressive as well, but not [I]anything[/I] close to the scale of the Soviets under Stalin and his successors.[/quote]

I disagree.

Why does Chavez hate the US again?

Re: Russia thinking of using Venezuela and Cuba as Airfields for Bombers

[quote=Shpira;722122]I disagree.[/quote] For the record:
[B] 14 nations forcefully incorporated into the Soviet Union:[/B] Georgia, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Ukraine, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Kirghistan, Moldova, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan.

[B]Another 7 nations militarily occupied[/B] and forced into cooperation as satellite states of the Soviet Union after World War II: Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Albania, and East Germany.

That's 21 in total.

Look, I know that the US has its own skeletons in the closet - Korea, Vietnam, Grenada, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc. And I know that it's a very popular intellectual sport to diss the US for, well, basically everything. But I just don't see the US list of aggression as being this bad in terms of number, length of occupation, or levels of government-directed brutality. I guess I feel a bit strongly about this because I and my family have personally been on the receiving end of Soviet-sponsored oppression.

[quote]Why does Chavez hate the US again?[/quote]Yeah, because the US hates him and badgers Venezuela. Some claim Bush backed a coup against him. My point wasn't that the US actions towards Venezuela were good, but that the Russians teaming up with him is a hostile move.

Re: Russia thinking of using Venezuela and Cuba as Airfields for Bombers

First I dont' want you to feel like we are ganging up on you but:

do you realize that Russia has the "Satan" missile which could realistically wipe out your entire West coast. It is a big deal because of these reasons. All it takes is one missile to wipe out your entire coast. I think that is serious.

[URL]http://www.russianspy.org/2006/12/21/russia-successfully-tests-satan-missile/[/URL]

Chavez hates the US becasue the US has tries to kill numerous times because Venezuela has boat loads of oil,. Ever heard of Citgo?? that is Chavez. The queen of the Netherlands (Shell) doesn't like that very much. You see the US went to Iraq and now Shell has the oil.

Re: Russia thinking of using Venezuela and Cuba as Airfields for Bombers

[quote=runningman;722156]First I dont' want you to feel like we are ganging up on you but:

do you realize that Russia has the "Satan" missile which could realistically wipe out your entire West coast. It is a big deal because of these reasons. All it takes is one missile to wipe out your entire coast. I think that is serious.[/quote] No worries. But yes, of course it is serious. The US has similar weapons of mass destruction, as do a bunch of other nations. If unrestrained nuclear war were ever to break out, then humanity runs a real risk of going the way of the dinosaur.

Re: Russia thinking of using Venezuela and Cuba as Airfields for Bombers

[quote=Miroslav;722128]For the record:
[B] 14 nations forcefully incorporated into the Soviet Union:[/B] Georgia, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Ukraine, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Kirghistan, Moldova, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan.

[B]Another 7 nations militarily occupied[/B] and forced into cooperation as satellite states of the Soviet Union after World War II: Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Albania, and East Germany.

That's 21 in total.

Look, I know that the US has its own skeletons in the closet - Korea, Vietnam, Grenada, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc. And I know that it's a very popular intellectual sport to diss the US for, well, basically everything. But I just don't see the US list of aggression as being this bad in terms of number, length of occupation, or levels of government-directed brutality. I guess I feel a bit strongly about this because I and my family have personally been on the receiving end of Soviet-sponsored oppression.

Yeah, because the US hates him and badgers Venezuela. Some claim Bush backed a coup against him. My point wasn't that the US actions towards Venezuela were good, but that the Russians teaming up with him is a hostile move.[/quote]

Yeah the difference is that all the things the US did and continues to do is done in the name of democracy, good...etc. There is a clear distinction between the USSR and Russia the same can not be said of the US. Its practically like saying that Germany is the same it was under Hitler... In addition to this without trying to be insulting or patronizing...try reading a little about history of the USSR and its republics, its not all black and white as you imagine.

The fact of the matter is that when you look at shit on the basis of achievements Putin is probably the greatest statesmen of our time. Now don't get me wrong I don't support a lot of the shit he does, but there is no denying that he has brought Russia out of the stone age and everything he did benefited Russia....thats more than can be said about most politicians.

As for Venezuela...its not rumors its fact that the the CIA wanted him gone..the US is hostile towards his government so its only natural for him to respond. If I was in US politics I would see it as a hostile move for sure...but objectively speaking the Russians are not "bad" and the Americans "good". They are just trying to improve their position in the global system.

I try and keep my personal feelings out of politics and be critical of every nation but to be honest I think the US has played its part and I want some other nation to have a chance of spreading its influence. Therefore I don't see any of this as particularly disturbing or shocking...i see it as natural.

p.s. I have to say that this [quote]But I just don't see the US list of aggression as being this bad in terms of number, length of occupation, or levels of government-directed brutality[/quote] is a fundamental issue I disagree with you on.

The thing about the USSR is that it was a centrally planned entity so its easy to blame it all on the government but when the US chooses to make laws and propagate ideals which cause pain, death and suffering without being directly involved its JUST AS RESPONSIBLE. So whether its the WTO or NATO, whether its economic or military- when certain conditions are met there are clear results that can be expected i.e. economic ruin or a military conflict.

While the number of deaths in the USSR is a fact extensively researched I think establishing an approximate number of deaths caused by US economic and military foreign policy would be by far greater and harder to establish.

Re: Russia thinking of using Venezuela and Cuba as Airfields for Bombers

p.p.s. as far as we are going back in time what about the Native Americans they got a hell of a deal from the US government.

Re: Russia thinking of using Venezuela and Cuba as Airfields for Bombers

[quote=Shpira;723242]p.p.s. as far as we are going back in time what about the Native Americans they got a hell of a deal from the US government.[/quote]

... funny side story (not trying to hijack) ... when in line at watergate in berlin, some german guy said he didnt like americans, so calmly i asked why. his two main points were iraq and what we did to the native americans. so, i said i am irish, my decendants werent the ones killing native americans, in fact the irish were treated like shit when they came over to america... then i followed with, its not really fair to be judged on a nations past now is it (HE WAS GERMAN!). unless its the same generation in power, its too hard to judge, germans are not what they were and same too with the british... hell almost every major power has done some fucked up shit!

anyways. it seems as if russia is getting frisky... they invaded Georgia, they leaned on Kyrgyzstan to close a major US base and now the whole cuba thing.... they are getting ready for something imo. but i am no historian by any means...

Re: Russia thinking of using Venezuela and Cuba as Airfields for Bombers

[quote=Shpira;723238] In addition to this without trying to be insulting or patronizing...try reading a little about history of the USSR and its republics, its not all black and white as you imagine.[/quote] Thanks for that little tip! And no, you didn't at ALL sound insulting or patronizing there. :roll: You may be SHOCKED to learn that I did actually go to school and I have before put my nose in a book or two dealing with Eastern European history in my lifetime (I know, isn't it crazy!). :) Not to mention that I'm a native Slovak whose family was forced to flee home thanks to the Soviets and who grew up hearing a lot of first-hand accounts about how things were under Communism. But hey, it sounds like you have may have some interesting notions about the Soviets and about Putin so I'll not stand in your way...have fun with that... :lol:

Leaving our differences there aside... I trust you'll agree that if it's "natural" and "not hostile" for Russia to put missiles in Cuba in an effort to improve its position, then it will also be just as "natural" and "not hostile" when the US forcefully retaliates - possibly militarily - in an effort to improve its own position. I'm not going to argue with you that the US hasn't done bad stuff. Just don't expect the next "superpower" to be any "better" than the US; it could quite possibly be worse.

Re: Russia thinking of using Venezuela and Cuba as Airfields for Bombers

The US will for sure do something to improve its position if the USSR goes through with this plan.

Re: Russia thinking of using Venezuela and Cuba as Airfields for Bombers

^^I don't think it will. . . its just a show of strength to prove that they can if they wish to do so...

@Miro I only wanted to say that the position Russia and other republics of the USSR was many times worse (comparatively to the West) before the Communists took over and they practically solely won the second world war...whether or not they went about it the right way is not a thing I was commenting on. Sorry about your family heritage...I am not going to go into mine but I was born in a communist country... As for the nest superpower...well we'll just have to wait and see. The way things are going I think we won't wait long.

Re: Russia thinking of using Venezuela and Cuba as Airfields for Bombers

[quote=Shpira;723823]...and they practically solely won the second world war[/quote]

I :lol:'d at that one.

Here's how I see the overall topic though:

Something else to consider is that Russia hasn't really been active with Cuba since the missile crisis because they knew that Castro was gonna be there for decades. Now however, with Obama perhaps considering lifting the embargo because of the weak "Castro" government, American cultural influence will easily be able to flow into Cuba, essentially ending communism there.

Russia sees this as a time to act and is probably doing a last-ditch effort to keep some semblance of influence in the western hemisphere. Venezuela is involved too because Castro and Chavez are pretty much fuck buddies, so Russia is using this relationship to stage bombers in Venezuela in case they have to take Cuba back by force. I think it would be incredibly dumb on their part if they instigated a war, especially over Cuba, but being dumb is pretty common in the geopolitical sphere, especially for Russia.

Re: Russia thinking of using Venezuela and Cuba as Airfields for Bombers

Take Cuba by force? are you on lsd like [I]now[/I]? I laughed at the whole post^^

Do you really think a country like Russia would invade Cuba today? If you are being serious with the above post then you should seek some help...seriously. What possible interest can Russia have in Cuba today that would justify an invasion?

Re: Russia thinking of using Venezuela and Cuba as Airfields for Bombers

[quote=Shpira;729876]Take Cuba by force? are you on lsd like [I]now[/I]? I laughed at the whole post^^

Do you really think a country like Russia would invade Cuba today? If you are being serious with the above post then you should seek some help...seriously. What possible interest can Russia have in Cuba today that would justify an invasion?[/quote]

[URL="http://efficientawesomeness.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/putin_cold_warrior.png"][IMG]http://efficientawesomeness.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/putin_cold_warrior.png[/IMG][/URL]

^ Fucker's crazy.

Re: Russia thinking of using Venezuela and Cuba as Airfields for Bombers

LOL...it might look otherwise, but the reality of Russian politics is very simmilar to US. There are many other influences on foreign policy than just Putin. As for him being crazy or not...I will not judge on that. So far Russia is doing pretty well for itself...but then so was Germany before ww2 so we'll see... I think the success of a statesman should be judged on the basis of things he does for his country i.e. did he improve the position of his nation or not...on that criteria he's doing pretty well I have to say. In reality thats the only criteria that counts in Politics...and in foreign relations to an even bigger extent.

Re: Russia thinking of using Venezuela and Cuba as Airfields for Bombers

[QUOTE=runningman;722156]First I dont' want you to feel like we are ganging up on you but:

do you realize that Russia has the "Satan" missile which could realistically wipe out your entire West coast. It is a big deal because of these reasons. All it takes is one missile to wipe out your entire coast. I think that is serious.

[URL]http://www.russianspy.org/2006/12/21/russia-successfully-tests-satan-missile/[/URL]

Chavez hates the US becasue the US has tries to kill numerous times because Venezuela has boat loads of oil,. Ever heard of Citgo?? that is Chavez. The queen of the Netherlands (Shell) doesn't like that very much. You see the US went to Iraq and now Shell has the oil.[/QUOTE]

Wouldn't make too much sense to wipe out the market (the U.S.) for the product that enriches you (Citgo -> oil), so I guess hitting the west coast of the US does make some sense since Citgo is primarily east coast & midwest. Still, they would have to figure out a way to keep the fallout from drifting east and eventually poisoning those who would buy Citgo's product.

Economic terrorism is far more effective these days than old-fashioned nukes or conventional war. I don't care what kind of new special delivery system you have. Nukes still poison the atmosphere for everyone. Heck, even with Chernobyl we could detect the fallout in the lower 48 within a week to 10 days. Fallout doesn't respect borders apparently. I would hope this is still common knowledge amongst even the most aggressive warmongers in Russian & Venezuelan leadership.

come on now...

Re: Russia thinking of using Venezuela and Cuba as Airfields for Bombers

All Obama needs to do is once again invoke the Monroe Doctrine (just like Kennedy did) as a basis for not tolerating Russian bases anywhere in the Western Hemisphere. Obama has any number of ways he can go about implementing this (threats, ultimatims, military action, suspension of treaties, diplomatic talks, etc.)

Putin has an ego the size of the entire Asian continent. This isn't new news either. IMHO the Russians see their meddling in Venezuela as payback for the US military exercises in Georgia (a former Soviet state on Russia's southern border). If anyone was provocative first it was the US under (surprise, surprise) G.W. Bush.

Re: Russia thinking of using Venezuela and Cuba as Airfields for Bombers

^^Yes...thank you at least someone I can agree with to some extent :) Although I would suggest that the Monoroe Doctrine has somewhat lost relevance in recent years and if he tried to that the international community would just tell him to piss off....after all Venezuela is an independent country and can choose what it wants to do without the US. As for the Russians seeing this as payback....yes thats to some extent true but its for more than just Georgia and its not really a payback its more a precaution. The Russkies are optimistic about Obama but they have had 8 years of Bush to put up with...hopefully the world is big enough fo Russians and Americans....

As for Putin having a big ego...thats true well to an extent but after Yeltsyin such a leader was necessary to restore national self confidnce.