Re: Ammunition Accountability Legislation

:Die:

Some of us have balls enough to say... NO!!! No you can't have our guns.

So that in the "hope" for peace we ourselves take away our own rights to defend ourselves. Brilliant!!

The right to defend ourselves is a human right. Some of those who might think otherwise...well lets hope you never need some bullshit coded ammo that by then has gone from labeling to how lethal to how its made what grain powder and so on. Then as an old man you out of fear buy a gun for protection then find yourself in a horrible situation and have to use the thing then great news for you this bullshit regulated ammo sucks ass and misfires and that was the point. Your dead and your family gets raped.

Myself i would rather have the option to carry out that decision to shoot some one had that decision been presented in a away where no other option will protect you and those you love.

Some on said something about John Wayn'n some guy who walks up to rob you?

No!! You wait till he turns around then shoot him!

In Florida it is our right to use lethal force necessary to protect our property and our life. I hope I never have to apply that right but it is nice to know that my Government supports that decision.

So people think we are just going to let it go down like that. Sorry.

[quote=runningman;705855]shit i thought you guys were the home of the brave. Your comments above basically say "home of the if you ask for it we will give it because we are all afraid and please don't hurt me"

I don't know Miro if you were in charge instead of Washington I'm pretty sure you guys would be singing "god save the queen"[/quote]

Runningman... You crack me up.:GameOn: Shit is true.

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[quote=Localizer;706038]Most don't do that except in the most conservative of towns. You really won't even find that in the cities. And it's a Concealed Carry Weapons permit which just means you conceal the weapon. Not sure about other states, but here in AZ most places require extensive training and marksmanship to even acquire one. Training is done by previous law enforcement/military personnel. So at least there's a guarantee that if someone is carrying a CCW, that they are probably an adequate shot.

In any case, a store just has to put on their window that they don't allow firearms.[/quote]

You must have Hunters Education or equivalent too certification to even be considered.

A lot of people don't realize that it is a concealed weapons permit. Sword or whatever Gun.

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[quote=runningman;705869]^^^^yep that used to be the american way.. but I guess we have evolved into a "Queer eye" kind of place. Take a look at the US TV shows in the 60's, 70,s, and 80's and now look at them. They are turning you all into a bunch of pussies that NEED the cops to sort out your business. Where is Charlton Heston when you need a MAN.[/quote]

:HolyShit::Laugh::Asshole:

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[quote=phuck'm-up;706072] The right to defend ourselves is a human right. Some of those who might think otherwise...well lets hope you never need some bullshit coded ammo that by then has gone from labeling to how lethal to how its made what grain powder and so on. Then as an old man you out of fear buy a gun for protection then find yourself in a horrible situation and have to use the thing then great news for you this bullshit regulated ammo sucks ass and misfires and that was the point. Your dead and your family gets raped.[/quote] Um...what I'm about to tell you has nothing to do with whether this legislation is a good idea or not, but to the best of my knowledge Ammunition Accountability really doesn't do anything to the [I]quality[/I] of the bullets. The serial is [I]micro-etched[/I] on with a laser; you likely wouldn't even see it with your own eyes. The bullets aren't going to misfire any more or less than they did before. If you have info supporting your case, please provide it.

[quote=phuck'm-up;706072] Some on said something about John Wayn'n some guy who walks up to rob you?

No!! You wait till he turns around then shoot him![/quote] Great! Now let me tell you what will happen to you if you actually do that:

You will be picked up by the police and investigated under the law. I'm no expert lawyer, but I do know that the key legal differentiator of murder from other forms of homicide is the state of mind when you commit the act - i.e., is there [B]premeditated intent[/B] behind it. And also that the key aspect of self defense is acting with [B]reasonable force[/B] under the [B]belief[/B] that your life is in danger.

Since you killed a man, you'll very likely have to stand trial. You'll have a tough time convincing a jury that you were acting in self defense when you shot him in the back. And you'll have a tough time convincing a jury that you didn't act with clear intent to kill the guy. The fact that he assaulted you is a crime, but that won't change the fact that you committed the criminal act of murder.

And so you'll wind up guilty of murder and likely end up with a prison sentence! Congratulations!! You got any more of these excellent ideas?

It would be really good if some of you would holster the patriotic, tough gun talk and [I]think[/I] a bit more.

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[quote=Miroslav;706048]sigh...ok not 99%. I don't know what the actual percentage is. Maybe we can do a poll or something. But I'm still willing to bet money that if you jump a person and stick a loaded gun in their face, [I]more people than not[/I] will do as they're told. If you disagree, that's fine... But my general experience is that people tend to be brave and talk a lot of shit - as long as it's not their life that's actually on the line. That's no secret.

Anyways, I think I'm done with this thread...I have nothing left to say.[/quote]

I was under the impression you were talking about just a mugging and not having a gun to your face. Regardless, people act differently under pressure. Just pointing that out since you guys are making the claim that we gun owners are just mocking hollywood types and trying to be 'macho.'

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[quote=DIDI;706049]^^^ Very valid point there!!

Err localizer, I was being facetious, see the little smile :) Seeing criminals are the most likely to be carrying concealed weapons do they have to do the training as well ??? :D That's facetious as well. :)

There is an amazing difference between America and Australia which is probably why I can make silly jokes :) [/quote] ok

[quote] :shock: Is that true, cos it's pretty dumb!!

[/quote]

Well, you can say it's dumb, but you'll truly never know how you'll react until you're put in that situation. Some people have reactive instincts to certain situations.

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Seems to me the basis of this argument is people want to carry weapons without any accountability. No different to me wanting to drive my car without a Vehicle Registration Plate. Yes criminals would steel cars or registration plates and commit crime but it would be interesting to see how many more drivers would drive off from an accident if any witnesses couldn't ID the car because it had no number plate. Its seems to me most people would rather not do anything about gun crime, than try to tackle the problem.

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Invoking John Wayne :CrackUp: :CrackUp: :CrackUp: :CrackUp: :CrackUp:

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I can only laugh at some of the responses in this thread. Didi you sound like the most out of touch person I have ever spoken with. You act like everyone just gets a long and we don't need weapons anymore. You are a utopianist. The only problem honey is that we are a VERY LONG way from being that dream in your head.

You sound like the kind of person that if you were standing in shit up to your ears you would look up to the sky for god rather than grab a branch to pull yourself out.

Also Didi are you saying that anyone who wants to carry a gun is going to rob a place??? WTF? Again Bella you wrong. You see I will make this simple for you. Bad guys have guns. Bad guys carry guns. Bad guys use guns on innocent people. Until that day when a bad guy meets a good guy with a gun and gets his head blown off.

Miro I'm not trying to sound uber whatever I was making the point that people on here actually believe that we have evolved as human beings and the point I was making is that if you turn off the electricity and water people will kill each other as if it still was the wild west. That is reality. POP I know I burst some bubbles on here but watch and learn during these economic hard times. We are only months from revolution now with these economic hard times.

Also Miro people robbing people don't typically like to pull out the gun. It draws to much attention. They also don't take the knife to your throat (typically) they show it to you and tell you calmly to give them the wallet. Again this is you talking about shit you don't have a clue about.

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[quote=runningman;706190]Also Miro people robbing people don't typically like to pull out the gun. It draws to much attention. They also don't take the knife to your throat (typically) they show it to you and tell you calmly to give them the wallet. Again this is you talking about shit you don't have a clue about.[/quote] Sorry I'm not an expert on all the finer points of holdup strategies. Glad you are. You win!

You know, I'd keep jabbing back and forth with you, but (1) I don't want to further devolve this thread into some lowly mud-slinging contest, and (2) you already do a great job of kicking your own ass with your own posts; the irony is abundantly clear to most of us on here and there's nothing more for me to even say in response.

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blah blah blah.. you sound like a broken record.. at least you finally conceited that you didn't know what you were talking about. I love how you insult people with your demeaning ways. You talk as though you are so high and mighty. It makes me laugh sometimes.:lol:

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[quote=runningman;706202]blah blah blah.. you sound like a broken record.. at least you finally conceited that you didn't know what you were talking about.[/quote] First of all, while we're on the topic of not knowing what one is talking about: it's "conceded", not "conceited". There is a difference; look it up in a dictionary.

The frequency distribution of modern-day holdup tactics is not my area of expertise because I really try not to engage in or interact with that sort of activity. What I do really know something about (not [I]everything[/I], but [I]something[/I]) is basic history, finance and economics. And I should, because I have some relatively extensive schooling in those areas. But there are lots of things I don't know much about, and I'm the first to admit that I'm human and make plenty of mistakes.

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[quote=Miroslav;706090]Um...what I'm about to tell you has nothing to do with whether this legislation is a good idea or not, but to the best of my knowledge Ammunition Accountability really doesn't do anything to the [I]quality[/I] of the bullets. The serial is [I]micro-etched[/I] on with a laser; you likely wouldn't even see it with your own eyes. The bullets aren't going to misfire any more or less than they did before. If you have info supporting your case, please provide it.

Great! Now let me tell you what will happen to you if you actually do that:

You will be picked up by the police and investigated under the law. I'm no expert lawyer, but I do know that the key legal differentiator of murder from other forms of homicide is the state of mind when you commit the act - i.e., is there [B]premeditated intent[/B] behind it. And also that the key aspect of self defense is acting with [B]reasonable force[/B] under the [B]belief[/B] that your life is in danger.

Since you killed a man, you'll very likely have to stand trial. You'll have a tough time convincing a jury that you were acting in self defense when you shot him in the back. And you'll have a tough time convincing a jury that you didn't act with clear intent to kill the guy. The fact that he assaulted you is a crime, but that won't change the fact that you committed the criminal act of murder.

And so you'll wind up guilty of murder and likely end up with a prison sentence! Congratulations!! You got any more of these excellent ideas?

It would be really good if some of you would holster the patriotic, tough gun talk and [I]think[/I] a bit more.[/quote]

About the bullets..I was peaking as if. Like after they get accountability laws in place the assumption of what is next. And by the way..I am yanking your chain. Since it is so easy that you have it all over the place.

I do not like being called a pussy country. You might like it but I don't.

About the idea of shooting a robber. Whatever dude? If the guy comes up and robs you at gun point and you shot him it is his fault. Plain and simple. Fuck yeah it would be an act to kill some one. If he has a gun ( this is the point)and robs you...... in Florida you have the right to shoot the fucker. In all likelihood the person robing you will have some kind of record and probably has done this before. And giving the fact that the person with a concealed weapons permit has no criminal record the jury may find otherwise.:roll:

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[quote=phuck'm-up;706221]I do not like being called a pussy country. You might like it but I don't.[/quote] You should ease up on the macho bravado. Don't define your manhood by your gun and your big boy attitude. Who the hell [I]cares[/I] what people say? Ignore it.

[quote=phuck'm-up;706221]About the idea of shooting a robber. Whatever dude? If the guy comes up and robs you at gun point and you shot him it is his fault. Plain and simple. Fuck yeah it would be an act to kill some one. If he has a gun ( this is the point)and robs you...... in Florida you have the right to shoot the fucker. In all likelihood the person robing you will have some kind of record and probably has done this before. And giving the fact that the person with a concealed weapons permit has no criminal record the jury may find otherwise.:roll:[/quote] Wow. You just totally missed my point.

[I]You[/I] said: "wait until he walks away, [I]then [/I]shoot him." That is MURDER.

That is not the same as shooting someone who is aiming a gun at you and about to shoot you. That is SELF DEFENSE.

You should understand that there is a big difference between the two.

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[quote=Miroslav;706228]You should ease up on the macho bravado. Don't define your manhood by your gun and your big boy attitude. Who the hell [I]cares[/I] what people say? Ignore it.

Wow. You just totally missed my point.

[I]You[/I] said: "wait until he walks away, [I]then [/I]shoot him." That is MURDER.

That is not the same as shooting someone who is aiming a gun at you and about to shoot you. That is SELF DEFENSE.

You should understand that there is a big difference between the two.[/quote]

You just think you know it all don't you.

Big boy additude? Personal attack number one. Define my manhood? Implying that I am some gun slinging redneck who needs to smart off on some forum to feel powerful, get a life!! You don't even know me.attack number two. Macho Bravado? You make me laugh. Please keep it up. My day is getting better by the minute.

also i left a word misspelled for you to find.8)

[URL]http://laws.flrules.org/files/Ch_2005-027.pdf[/URL]

Read this....

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Miro does it all the time and claims we are the arrogant asses.

Miro without your guns your country will be totally enslaved. Unless you are claiming to be smarter then the founding fathers??

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[quote=phuck'm-up;706260]You just think you know it all don't you.[/quote] As I said, there is plenty that I don't know. But I [I]did[/I] know this. Sorry, but that's just how it is.

[quote=phuck'm-up;706260]Big boy additude? Personal attack number one. Define my manhood? Implying that I am some gun slinging redneck who needs to smart off on some forum to feel powerful, get a life!! You don't even know me.attack number two. Macho Bravado? You make me laugh. Please keep it up. My day is getting better by the minute.[/quote] I'm not the one getting worked up about being called a "pussy country", or whatever. :roll:

And I'm not the one agreeing with runningman's macho bravado: [quote]Originally Posted by [B]runningman[/B] [URL="http://www.mercuryserver.com/forums/showthread.php?p=705855#post705855"][IMG]http://www.mercuryserver.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif[/IMG][/URL] [I]shit i thought you guys were the home of the brave. Your comments above basically say "home of the if you ask for it we will give it because we are all afraid and please don't hurt me"[/I]

[I]I don't know Miro if you were in charge instead of Washington I'm pretty sure you guys would be singing "god save the queen"[/I] [quote=phuck'm-up;706260]Runningman... You crack me up.:GameOn: Shit is true.[/quote][/quote]

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why would you get upset you are a National Socialist believing that the only people that should have guns are the cops.

Miro he can think for himself. Don't you realize that I come on here talking about what I believe. I don't need people in my corner like you. That is a sign of a weak person. The person who makes fun of someone and looks around to see if others are laughing with you.

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[quote=runningman;706289]why would you get upset you are a National Socialist believing that the only people that should have guns are the cops.[/quote] Now you're just completely making retarded shit up.

I never said I was against people having guns. I know what's in the Second Amendment, and I'm not advocating taking guns away from any American. But this legislation [I]does not take guns away from anybody[/I]. It just puts a tiny serial on the bullet - which, if you use your gun legally and report it missing if it is stolen (which you're supposed to do), [I]makes no difference[/I]. It doesn't impact your ability to go hunting (with a license), defend yourself if necessary, etc.

And then instead of even intelligently articulating an opinion against the legislation, some of you people come out with all this stupid make-believe bullshit about how you'll have to count every bullet...how they won't fire properly...how we're all "queer eye" pansies now and not tough like Charlton Heston... :roll: I normally try to take things with a grain of salt around here, but I'm sorry guys...don't you think this is sort of ridiculous?

And with that said... I'm done for good with this thread. There's nowhere else this can go but farther downhill, and I've gone too far already. I'm sorry for if I stepped on too many toes and if I caused too much of a nuisance. Go in peace, God bless.

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[quote=Miroslav;706292]. I know what's in the Second Amendment, and I'm not advocating taking guns away from any American.[/quote]

Whats wrong with taking the guns away. Just because it was written in the Second Amendment doesn't mean its a good idea. If it said you have the right to own slaves would you do it just because of some Constitutional Right. Have you ever thought maybe the right to bare arms mite of been a good idea 300 years ago but maybe out dated now. What are you all so scared of ?

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^^^^:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: good one

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[QUOTE=Miroslav;706194]Sorry I'm not an expert on all the finer points of holdup strategies. Glad you are. You win!

You know, I'd keep jabbing back and forth with you, but (1) I don't want to further devolve this thread into some lowly mud-slinging contest, and (2) you already do a great job of kicking your own ass with your own posts; the irony is abundantly clear to most of us on here and there's nothing more for me to even say in response.[/QUOTE] Says it all really:)

[QUOTE]Just because it was written in the Second Amendment doesn't mean its a good idea. If it said you have the right to own slaves would you do it just because of some Constitutional Right. Have you ever thought maybe the right to bare arms mite of been a good idea 300 years ago but maybe out dated now. What are you all so scared of ? [/QUOTE]

Often wondered about that. Blind adherence to a sentence whose meaning has totally changed. ???

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[quote=chunky;706343]Whats wrong with taking the guns away. Just because it was written in the Second Amendment doesn't mean its a good idea. If it said you have the right to own slaves would you do it just because of some Constitutional Right. Have you ever thought maybe the right to bare arms mite of been a good idea 300 years ago but maybe out dated now. What are you all so scared of ?[/quote]

First off. And foremost. People like myself who own several guns, not just one but several, are not scared of anything except Government telling you when and where and how. This is a Democracy remember. We just believe differently.

Yes I agree guns are a problem. I hate it every time I see stuff on the TV about gun violence. Especially when children are involved. No one wants to see that.

Regulation is the answer. But lets not jump into anything with out first examining all the options and possible scenarios on such regulation. This thread has become part of that now. I am only presenting the information to see what response it has.

I am sorry this thread has gotten so personal with a few and in the future perhaps we all will discuss the issue not bark back in forth.

Not all people that own a gun and have concealed weapons licenses mean trouble. Perhaps one of those people that push for the rights of gun owners just might save your life one day.

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And one more thing. This rep power crap is a joke. Some one took my two rep power points because I spoke my mind. How fucking weak is that. Makes me wonder what kind of people lurk here.

That's bullshit. Anyone know how to remove that pep power point scale because that lind of stuff is weak and uncalled for.

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^^ just btw, I didn't do it. I really have nothing against you. also, rep power is pretty much meaningless around here.

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I always sign rep, good or bad, but more likely to be good. :D Which reminds me. :lol:

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[QUOTE=runningman;706190]I can only laugh at some of the responses in this thread. Didi you sound like the most out of touch person I have ever spoken with. You act like everyone just gets a long and we don't need weapons anymore. You are a utopianist. The only problem honey is that we are a VERY LONG way from being that dream in your head.

You sound like the kind of person that if you were standing in shit up to your ears you would look up to the sky for god rather than grab a branch to pull yourself out.

Also Didi are you saying that anyone who wants to carry a gun is going to rob a place??? WTF? Again Bella you wrong. You see I will make this simple for you. Bad guys have guns. Bad guys carry guns. Bad guys use guns on innocent people. Until that day when a bad guy meets a good guy with a gun and gets his head blown off.

Miro I'm not trying to sound uber whatever I was making the point that people on here actually believe that we have evolved as human beings and the point I was making is that if you turn off the electricity and water people will kill each other as if it still was the wild west. That is reality. POP I know I burst some bubbles on here but watch and learn during these economic hard times. We are only months from revolution now with these economic hard times.

Also Miro people robbing people don't typically like to pull out the gun. It draws to much attention. They also don't take the knife to your throat (typically) they show it to you and tell you calmly to give them the wallet. Again this is you talking about shit you don't have a clue about.[/QUOTE] Just for the record, and so there is no misunderstanding :) I did read this, Just thought it was so unrelated to anything real it wasn't worth the effort to answer properly :D Btw I don't believe in god :lol:

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[QUOTE=phuck'm-up;706403]And one more thing. This rep power crap is a joke. Some one took my two rep power points because I spoke my mind. How fucking weak is that. Makes me wonder what kind of people lurk here.

That's bullshit. Anyone know how to remove that pep power point scale because that lind of stuff is weak and uncalled for.[/QUOTE] Runningman gave it back ???

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[quote=phuck'm-up;706400]First off. And foremost. People like myself who own several guns, not just one but several, are not scared of anything except Government telling you when and where and how. This is a Democracy remember. We just believe differently. [/quote]

Government has always told people what to do and that to a point is what Governments have always done. They make the laws (& break them) set taxes, send people to wars and so on. The problem is the government don't see to have any accountability to the people. I find it strange how people relinquished their rights to stop and searches so easily but still hang on so tight to Gun Control. I agree with you, if I lived in the US I to would have a gun particularly with you previous Government, I just wouldnt be bothered about the bullets being tagged.

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[quote=phuck'm-up;703996]No problem. It seems as though once the door is opened they begin to slowly chisel away at our 2nd amendment rights. [/quote]

This argument must of been used time and time again. I wouldnt be surprised if this argument was used by slave owners 100's of years ago. "They Take Our Slaves, What Next, Guns, Freedom Of Speech Or Something Else". I'd be interested to know how many people who feel strongly and protest in the Right To Bear Arm's actually took any notice when the US Government allowed authorities the right to stop and search without probable cause.

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[quote=chunky;706552]Government has always told people what to do and that to a point is what Governments have always done. They make the laws (& break them) set taxes, send people to wars and so on. The problem is the government don't see to have any accountability to the people. I find it strange how people relinquished their rights to stop and searches so easily but still hang on so tight to Gun Control. I agree with you, if I lived in the US I to would have a gun particularly with you previous Government, I just wouldnt be bothered about the bullets being tagged.[/quote]

There is a fine line inside the stop and search laws. I believe that if you are suspect to terrorist activities then yes they can search with out cause but they must prove that in court.

[quote=chunky;706556]This argument must of been used time and time again. I wouldnt be surprised if this argument was used by slave owners 100's of years ago. "They Take Our Slaves, What Next, Guns, Freedom Of Speech Or Something Else". I'd be interested to know how many people who feel strongly and protest in the Right To Bear Arm's actually took any notice when the US Government allowed authorities the right to stop and search without probable cause.[/quote]

Comparing gun owners to slave owners? No comment

Didn't they throw the search law in with all the Homeland Security Stuff after 9/11..

No one saw it coming. Just like no one is seeing this Ammunition Accountability legislation.

"Sustainable Development."

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[quote=phuck'm-up;706576]

Comparing gun owners to slave owners? No comment

Didn't they throw the search law in with all the Homeland Security Stuff after 9/11..

No one saw it coming. Just like no one is seeing this Ammunition Accountability legislation.

"Sustainable Development."[/quote]

I used slave owners as the easiest example. I suppose The Criminal Justice Bill back in the 90's would of been a better example when people who wanted to dance to repetitive beats in fields up and down the country.

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I don't knock rep power unless you see runningman in the text box.. i will tell you.

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[quote=DIDI;706415]Just for the record, and so there is no misunderstanding :) I did read this, Just thought it was so unrelated to anything real it wasn't worth the effort to answer properly :D Btw I don't believe in god :lol:[/quote]

your right when you turn off the lights and water people become barbarians again.. finally thx for backing me.:)

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holy shit... i take 2 days off from posting and this is what i come back to? lmao, jesus. what did you start phil?

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[quote=thesightless;704372]personally, [I]since you cant remove an ammendment[/I], im all for this. [/quote]

Hey, what about the 21st Amendment, which repealed the 18th (prohibition). That's my favorite Amendment! :Cheerz:

As for the substance of the thread, it seems like an awfully silly thing to get worked up about on either side, IMO. I doubt very seriously that it will [I]stop [/I]any crime, but if it helps [I]solve [/I]a few, I'm all for it, because it seems like a [I]de minimus[/I] imposition on 2nd Amendment rights, if at all. Anyone that feels that this is a serious restriction on their right to bear arms -- or on the flip side, who thinks that this is a necessary ingredient in the fight against crime -- is a bit out of touch with reality, IMO.

And to get back to the very first post, how exactly is this Obama's fault? These are state governments proposing these bills, if I'm understanding correctly.

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[quote=toasty;708822]Hey, what about the 21st Amendment, which repealed the 18th (prohibition). That's my favorite Amendment! :Cheerz:

As for the substance of the thread, it seems like an awfully silly thing to get worked up about on either side, IMO. I doubt very seriously that it will [I]stop [/I]any crime, but if it helps [I]solve [/I]a few, I'm all for it, because it seems like a [I]de minimus[/I] imposition on 2nd Amendment rights, if at all. Anyone that feels that this is a serious restriction on their right to bear arms -- or on the flip side, who thinks that this is a necessary ingredient in the fight against crime -- is a bit out of touch with reality, IMO.

And to get back to the very first post, how exactly is this Obama's fault? These are state governments proposing these bills, if I'm understanding correctly.[/quote]

I put the spoon in the wrong pot that's all. The thing was forwarded to me and out of curiosity I posted it here. Then the damn thing blew up.

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:Naughty:[quote=Garrick;707017]holy shit... i take 2 days off from posting and this is what i come back to? lmao, jesus. what did you start phil?[/quote]