Bush is intentionally imploding the middle class in the USA. AIG employs 100,000 people in the US versus the big three where if they don't get this little $25 billion loan 2.5 million people will be out of work to start.:twisted::twisted::twisted:

Re: AIG Another $50 Billion but nothing for Autos??

bwhaha. really? the automakers are going to be out of business soon anyways, why not just burn the cash instead and say 'sorted'? Because that's all that we're really doing. Hell, Deutsch Bank just downgraded GM's stock to ZERO. NADA. NIL. "whatever may help them in the short term, the fact is GM will come out of this in bankruptcy"

Re: AIG Another $50 Billion but nothing for Autos??

so what is your point?? you can bail out all the big firms but now that the voters have voted you can dump 2.5 million people on the street?? No my friend the Unions won't take that. You will have unemployed people organized and traveling to places that aren't hit the hardest by the economy and they will burn it to the ground.

Remember if you lose the cars the rest is just paper (Money)

Re: AIG Another $50 Billion but nothing for Autos??

b/c if they bail the auto manufacturers, they will just be prolonging thier deaths. they are the single most irrersponsible group of companies out there. they dont care about what the consumers want, they just want the union contracts covered. they will take the money, and come back in 5 years begging for more. if they give the group the money it should be extremely conditional. like having 10 models with 35MPG or higher out in three years, lower sticker prices etc.

the insurance and banking died becuase the stocks were gutted by mass histeria and they lost thier books. an influx of cash ensures that they will be able to cover thier insurance costs.

Re: AIG Another $50 Billion but nothing for Autos??

it isn't about want to give the money they have to or the US is done. Over with. You can't just lose something that gives 1 in 10 Americans a job. The unemployment rate over night would jump to 17%. Union wouldn't be making their union dues causing mass organization and disruption. This is where the fire and brimstone come in. Not with the banks its with the blue collar workers that ccan't provide for thier families who are organized and pissed at the place they call home. If the Autos go down I can assure you the riots from the 60's will be nothing compared to what will happen.

Re: AIG Another $50 Billion but nothing for Autos??

i agree with sightless and mariner. US Auto has been dead for years. if they wanted to stick around they would of been keeping up with Japan and Korea instead of making more F-350's and Hummers. people dont want that shit anyways.

if they give them the money, it will only prolong their demise.

Obama pushing this bailout is a huge mistake. it will look good in the short run but in the long run, its just flushing money down the toilet.

Re: AIG Another $50 Billion but nothing for Autos??

did you not read what I and Sightless posted? It doesn't matter how much money you throw at them, [I]they will not exist because they have a shitty product. [/I]

Let the workers riot. What you're asking for is to relieve people of the consequences of bad decision making.

what you're begging for is the [I]de facto[/I] nationalization of the auto industry.

Re: AIG Another $50 Billion but nothing for Autos??

they need to sit all the auto workers down and make them watch gung ho all over again. send the delegates to tokyo and then berlin so they can see what real car companies do instead of saying "well, 40 hours, in out" and refusing to compete.

Re: AIG Another $50 Billion but nothing for Autos??

[I]de facto[/I] nationalization of the auto industry.

why not we are doing it with the banking industry. Also they aren't dead forever. What kind of attitude is that? You guys on here are hilarious. Lets let the middle class just die and lets give all the money to the bankers and hope it trickles down.

Giving all your resources to insurance firms is flushing it down the toilet. Not saving millions upon millions of jobs and families. You guys really need to check your heads.

Money well spent guys.

[URL]http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=6223972[/URL]

Re: AIG Another $50 Billion but nothing for Autos??

i'm not sure. i mean, the government does run things pretty well. let's give them the banks, the auto industry, the energy companies, and transporation companies.

it's a brilliant idea! i don't know why we didn't think of this sooner!

Re: AIG Another $50 Billion but nothing for Autos??

It is a loan that will help millions of families across the US. You want to talk foreclosures gentleman!! Lay off 5 million people and see where your economy goes.

Re: AIG Another $50 Billion but nothing for Autos??

[IMG]http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/2/23/Canadian-milk-bags.jpg[/IMG]

Re: AIG Another $50 Billion but nothing for Autos??

[quote=runningman;675119]It is a loan that will help millions of families across the US. You want to talk foreclosures gentleman!! Lay off 5 million people and see where your economy goes.[/quote]

whether they are laid off now, or in 6 months, does it matter? our economy is tumbling, spending billions of dollars on failed businesses is pointless.

HMM! why don't we just send Lehman Bros, ATA, and all theother companies? what about thier employees?

Dude, where is the money coming from?

Re: AIG Another $50 Billion but nothing for Autos??

[quote=runningman;675079]Bush is intentionally imploding the middle class in the USA. AIG employs 100,000 people in the US versus the big three where if they don't get this little $25 billion loan 2.5 million people will be out of work to start.:twisted::twisted::twisted:[/quote] The jobs are not the point. They never really were.

The reason that major financials got bailed out was not to save jobs. The reason was because if the banking system really goes down, there is [I]no pipeline[/I] for money and credit to flow through the economy. That means that no one can borrow, no one can lend, no one can get paid. And then [I]everyone[/I] in the nation goes down and is out on the street because corporations can't roll their commercial paper, intermediaries don't exist to syndicate bonds, employees can't get paid, etc. We can't do without that pipeline.

If the automakers go out of business, then it's primarily just jobs and output that are affected, not the actual international pipeline of money and credit. It will hurt a lot, but the point of the bailout was not to avert a recession; it was to stop the money system from falling to pieces and leading to a massive depression like we had in the 1930s. One of the major reasons the Great Depression was so great was precisely because the Fed sat on its ass and actually [I]raised rates[/I] while watching most of the nation's banking infrastructure disintegrate.

That said, I'm already sure these morons will end up bailing out the auto industry and who knows what else. There was good reason to bail out the stupid major banks (see above for argument), but the same reasons do not exist for a stupid auto manufacturer.

Re: AIG Another $50 Billion but nothing for Autos??

[QUOTE=Miroslav;675169]I'm already sure these morons will end up bailing out the auto industry and who knows what else. There was good reason to bail out the stupid major banks (see above for argument), but the same reasons do not exist for a stupid auto manufacturer.[/QUOTE]

I'm not so sure. I think that there will be more public outcry over this type of bailout (I hope).

My other views on auto-industry-complex aside, I do think that the companies should stand or fall on their own. Maybe they should think about making Smart cars, alternative energy vehicles, things like this instead of douchebag SUVs and pickup trucks.

Re: AIG Another $50 Billion but nothing for Autos??

[QUOTE]Why bail out Wall Street and not GM, demand many people. Why do we care about bankers and not ordinary folks?

I think this misses the point of the financial bailout. Whether or not it works--and I sure hope it will--I don't think very many people wanted to bail out the financial industry because we were so moved by the plight of those plucky traders on the mortgage desk. We bailed them out not because they deserved it--they didn't--but because if we didn't, there was a very big risk that they would take us down with them.

This is not generalizeable to other industries. Money is weird. Finance is weird. There is no other industry that is, first, so tightly coupled, and second, severely affects every other industry in the country. Moreover, there are few other industries that are so vulnerable to panic. Strategic injections of capital can actually salvage operations that are otherwise sound.

GM's operations are not otherwise sound. They have been headed for this moment since 1973. Conservatives blame legacy costs, and liberals blame management. They're both right. GM's legacy costs are crazy. So is the UAW leadership, which, goaded by the retirees, is knowingly driving the company into bankruptcy rather than negotiate clearly unsustainable deals. Those legacy costs would probably not be supportable by any company in a competitive environment; the UAW's expectations were created in an era of comfortable oligopoly, when all costs could be directly passed on to the consumer. And the poor quality control on American cars is, from all reports, the responsibility of the union, which maintains downright silly work rules that not even the most ardent liberal could defend in both the Big Three and their various parts suppliers. My favorite was the supplier plant that was forced to work in english measurement even though they had to sell parts in metric. But the examples are legion.

But too, management doesn't seem to be trying much harder to keep themselves out of bankruptcy court. The company could have limped on for longer if it had, y'know, made cars anyone wanted to buy. That's not the UAW's fault. GM's management seems to have a positive genius for making horrible cars, as if they'd deliberately sat down and asked themselves how they could best combine ugly, inconvenient, and unreliable into one expensive package.

What is government money going to fix? Will GM's management be so grateful to America that they decide to make an attractive, reliable vehicle as a thank-you gift? Will the unions realize that they owe the taxpayers a little more flexibility at collective bargaining time? Oh, hear that hollow laugh.

Merging with Chrysler doesn't solve anything. It's like two alcoholics deciding that they could maybe quit drinking if they got married. Everything that's wrong with GM is wrong with Chrysler, in spades. Adding the chaos and expense of a merger will not improve the toxic rot of horrible labor relations and muddled management. They can't even save money in the traditional way, by streamlining operations, because it costs them so much to lay anyone off. They'll save on steel and electricity from cutting car lines. But they can cut those car lines right now. And steel and electricity are no longer the major costs of auto manufacturing.

GM can't be saved. It needs to go into bankruptcy, which is the only possible way I can see to adjust its legacy labor problems, and possibly provide sufficient shock to the corporate culture to allow the company to make a competent car. Even that may not work. And it's going to involve a whole bunch of pain for everyone.

But unless we're willing to essentially nationalize three auto companies, that pain is going to come, sooner or later. And if we want to keep auto workers from feeling pain, then we should just up and give them money. There's no reason to waste steel on a lot of crappy cars.[/QUOTE]

[URL]http://meganmcardle.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/11/invidious_comparisons_1.php[/URL]

I think Megan hit this out of the park here.

Re: AIG Another $50 Billion but nothing for Autos??

ill be ridding my hybrid hummer when the shit hits the fan.

[IMG]http://image.truckinweb.com/f/opinions/will-gm-build-a-hummer-hybrid/6841519+w640+cr1+re0+ar1/hummer-h2-sut.jpg[/IMG]

Re: AIG Another $50 Billion but nothing for Autos??

hummers are for pussies. real men drive small, unsafe compacts.

i would drive this:

[URL]http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/11/detroit-now-has.html[/URL]

hey detroit, try innovating like this! I would buy that car in a heartbeat.

Re: AIG Another $50 Billion but nothing for Autos??

That karma car is really nice.