[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=silver]I know this will eventually get hijacked, but it’s still worth a try. ;)[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=silver]Obviously there are a lot of Obama supporters here. I am curious on why are you voting for Obama? I am starting this thread with a serious intention. I see a lot of supporters rooting for him, but aside from a couple of people here who do give their reasons for voting for him, I am really curious on what it is about him that will have you voting for him. [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=silver]Is it something he has done in his time in office? If so, please tell us what it was?[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#c0c0c0][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=silver]Is it because you feel McCain will be 4 more years of Bush?[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#c0c0c0][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=silver]Is it because McCain picked Palin as running mate?[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#c0c0c0][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=silver]Is it because of Obama’s tax plan? His Healthcare plan? Views on Abortion?[/COLOR] [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT] Why Obama?

Re: Why are you voting for Obama?

This thread = department of redundancy department

if you've been reading this section at all for the past few months, why people are voting the way they are have been beaten to death. i know i laid out my reasons again just yesterday, and have in the past, and toasty did as well, as he has numerous times. how about using the search function, or just preview a few threads on this page?

Re: Why are you voting for Obama?

[quote=Jenks;670458]This thread = department of redundancy department

if you've been reading this section at all for the past few months, why people are voting the way they are have been beaten to death. i know i laid out my reasons again just yesterday, and have in the past, and toasty did as well, as he has numerous times. how about using the search function, or just preview a few threads on this page?[/quote]

As I said, aside from some people here who have given their reasons. :roll:

Re: Why are you voting for Obama?

yep, I'm on the record on this one. bowing out of the thread now.

Re: Why are you voting for Obama?

[img]http://bravellir.com/gallery/d/6888-1/tumbleweed2.gif[/img]

Re: Why are you voting for Obama?

Am I the only one who sees a lot of irony in the response (or lack thereof) to this thread?

Re: Why are you voting for Obama?

^the thread was created 16 mins ago. were you expecting it to be 4 pages already?

Re: Why are you voting for Obama?

I was referring more to this:

[quote=Jenks;670462][IMG]http://bravellir.com/gallery/d/6888-1/tumbleweed2.gif[/IMG][/quote]

Re: Why are you voting for Obama?

you're new to this section aren't you? :p

Re: Why are you voting for Obama?

1. its really no ones business why

2. its been hammered to death for weeks in various other threads

Re: Why are you voting for Obama?

[quote=Jenks;670469]you're new to this section aren't you? :p[/quote]

:lol: [FONT=Arial]Chalk my previous post up as another failed attempt at internet sarcasm![/FONT] [FONT=Arial][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][/FONT] [FONT=Arial]No, no – you guys have defended your decision quite well (I mean that seriously). It just seems to me that there is a great many people who can’t give a valid, logical reason as to why they are voting for Obama. Yes I know he’s all for change, he’s different, he’s not Bush blah blah blah, but ask for concrete reasons and you get some pretty blank stares.[/FONT] [FONT=Arial] [/FONT]

Re: Why are you voting for Obama?

maybe the blank stare is because its a stupid question.. or ask the other, why are you voting for mccain, you'll get the same stare

Re: Why are you voting for Obama?

[quote=BSully828;670473]:lol: [FONT=Arial]Chalk my previous post up as another failed attempt at internet sarcasm![/FONT]

[FONT=Arial]No, no – you guys have defended your decision quite well (I mean that seriously). It just seems to me that there is a great many people who can’t give a valid, logical reason as to why they are voting for Obama. Yes I know he’s all for change, he’s different, he’s not Bush blah blah blah, but ask for concrete reasons and you get some pretty blank stares.[/FONT] [/quote]

Actually I wasn't looking for anyoneto point out Obama's accomplishements. If they feel Mccain is another Bush, then that is their reason. If they feel it is for change, then that is their reason. The purpose was not to attack anyone on their opinions but it was more for me to get an idea on why a lot of the people aside from [B]jenks toasty and SG :roll: [/B]are voting for Obama.

Re: Why are you voting for Obama?

[QUOTE=BSully828;670473]: but ask for concrete reasons and you get some pretty blank stares.[/QUOTE]

I don't think this is true. On other political forums i argue on, and just in day to day life walking down the street, sitting in the bar overhearing other tables talking- i think i've heard more competent political discussion about Obama vs. McCain than I ever have in any political election in my life. People are more informed today than they ever have been. Granted, there are those people that get a camera shoved in their face that don't know shit that the media likes to exploit, and there are those silly videos i've even posted about some of the crazy ass mccain supporters going absolutely psycho nuts after his rallies, but in the end, i don't think that is representative of most voters in this election.

Re: Why are you voting for Obama?

and to be honest, i dont think once in this whole section have i ever said who i was voting for

Re: Why are you voting for Obama?

^Ross Perot on Nov 5th!!

Re: Why are you voting for Obama?

Part of my job has me visiting various colleges across New England and the East Coast. I meet with students, alumni and various people throughout the town, after I disucuss what I'm there to discuss conversation generally trends towards non work-related topics and politics is usually tops on the list.

[FONT=Arial]It has been my experience that, when asked to explain beyond regurgitating the Hope/Change mantra, many Obama supporters are markedly silent about why they’ll be voting (D) on November 4th. [I]What [/I]kind change? Exactly [I]how[/I] will he enact this change? [I]Where [/I]is he going to get the $$ needed to fund the kind of change he promises? [I]Where [/I]on his political track record do you find evidence that he is experienced enough to make these changes? [I]How [/I]do you think he’d respond to an insubordinate senate/house? Media scrutiny? Pissy foreign leaders? Terrorist attack (God forbid)? All I seem to get is:[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial][IMG]http://bravellir.com/gallery/d/6888-1/tumbleweed2.gif[/IMG][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial]Followed by vague generalities about (you guessed it) hope and change. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial]This doesn’t pertain to most of you here, it’s the overall experience I’ve had talking with people face to face. Maybe I’m just finding the thorns among roses, maybe I’m finding a bad demographic, but (to quote the great Bill Belicheck) it is what it is. [/FONT]

Re: Why are you voting for Obama?

^ you did not just bust out a bill billacheat ! :)

"it is what it is" is a universal thought/saying right?

Re: Why are you voting for Obama?

hijack of thread? how did you know...

prob futile but i'll stay on topic. i voted for obama. i know i stand to the left, but i don't support him simply for that. when i started hearing campaign rhetoric from both sides, mccain's just didn't add up. his speaches are full of "we're the greatest," and "america's got the greatest workforce," and crap that panders to the public but doesn't tell us anything about what he mgiht do differently. it's the same shit bush did.

when i listen to obama i hear a man who knows he's going to have to work his ass off and has the interests of most americans in mind. his outlook is better than any politician i've ever heard, let alone prez candidate. it's a benefit that he'll actually talk about issues, b/c even if i don't understand them all, he's obviously thinking and working on it and his ideas are good.

mccain says nothing about issues. well, character issues he attributes to obama maybe. other than that it's the same mouthwash bush gargled with. mccain's economic policy is to keep waging war and pass policy so rich people can "create new wealth," same as we've had and it's not working.

i think people worry because we havent seen what obama is going to do. i support him because he's got the best head i've ever heard from a politician. i worry because i've seen what mccain would do in office and i'm not a fan.

Re: Why are you voting for Obama?

^^ well said mate

Re: Why are you voting for Obama?

Here's your answer:

[B]1. Taxes.[/B] When taken in net dollars, both candidates are similar in where they end up. I just feel that it's worth taking the chance of moving to a more progressive tax system for the near term during this crisis. We can't really afford to lower taxes a lot right now, and we can't really afford to increase everyone's taxes. The rich just have to shoulder a bit more for the near term. I know the dangers of overtaxing them, but I just think that's our best option now.

[B]2. Deficit.[/B] McCain's proposals increase the deficit by near the same amount if not more than Obama's proposals. If we're going to dig our way more into debt, then dollar for dollar I'll take my chances with Obama's plans. Specifically...

[B]3. Healthcare.[/B] I think his healthcare plan in particular seems like it has a better shot of getting people covered. McCain's tax credits will discourage employers from providing healthcare and will create more of a cash flow issue for lower income families - they can't afford to just wait for their credit when they need to buy now. McCain's plan is better for young people who shop around, but it will be worse for older people with conditions who lose their health insurance at work. Obama's plan is more vague than I would like, but so is McCain's.

[B]4. Iraq. [/B]Obama would work to get us out. McCain is the kind of guy who would charge ahead like a bull in a china shop under any and all circumstances. It's called "escalation of commitment error" - look it up in your organizational behavior theory textbook.

[B]5. International Diplomacy.[/B] This whole "meeting without preconditions" thing was way overblown - it doesn't mean sitting down to tea and presents with Ahmadinejad. What it does mean is actually doing some sort of diplomacy. The US is learning that it is no longer the impervious big kid on the block who can do anything and get away with it. We need someone who understands the concept of being [I]strategic[/I] and working with other nations, and not following the "bull in a china shop" model.

[B]6. McCain's negative campaigning.[/B] I'm getting pretty damn sick of hearing McCain and Palin trying to paint Obama as a terrorist-loving, America-hating Communist. It's ridiculous, and in my view only the most backwards Americans buy into it. And I'm sick of hearing Palin and other Republicans insinuate who is a "real American" and who isn't patriotic enough (i.e., doesn't agree with them). It says more about McCain's/Palin's personality and leadership philosophy than it does about Obama.

[B]7. McCain's erratic response to the bailout crisis. [/B]I thought McCain's whole campaign suspension thing was just a way to politicize the bailout process for his benefit (and it failed). Obama was on the phone with the treasury secretary daily and he was in the meeting with Bush. He didn't go around all lathered up, trying to drum up big publicity for his involvement. And this a week after he proclaimed that "the fundamentals of our economy are strong". I'd rather have someone who can keep a level head before charging around.

[B]8. Sarah Palin.[/B] I just can't take McCain seriously after his choice of running mate. He talks about how experience matters, and then picks the one person in the nation with less experience than Obama? Yes, she has some executive experience, but she has spent zero time dealing with national security issues, zero time with foreign policy issues, zero time with Constitutional issues. Obama has, and he can articulate and reason with those issues. Her interviews were not "gotcha questions"; it was just a demonstration of the fact that she wasn't very good at articulating her opinions under fire. All she has done since then is play the folksy Joe Sixpack "you Betcha" maverick since then - while accusing Obama of being a Communist - and that does not impress me. Maybe she'll be ready some day, but she's not now. We could have chosen to not vote for Obama if we think he's too inexperienced, but we can't kick her ass out of office right away if we voted for McCain and he kicks the bucket.

[B]9. Even after all his changes, McCain's similarity to the past 8 years of politics and Bush.[/B] The past 8 years have sucked for many people. McCain has personally had a hand in that, when he voted for Bush's proposals over 90% of the time. I see no reason to believe that he will really be different now. I don't think he even has the intangible qualities of charisma to actually get enough of the nation to try to implement his vision of changing [I]something [/I]so that the next eight years don't suck as bad. I'm all for letting the wealthy people in this country be successful and reap great rewards, but I think we've moved a bit too far on the spectrum of economic polarization. While the top people are getting exponentially richer, lower class people cannot make ends meet with one or even two full-time jobs. And that should not be.

I'm not saying that Obama is all peaches and cream. In fact, I don't like the guy all that much and I think he should have been running in a later election if anything. Obama is a risk, because there is a lot we don't really know about him. But I think he's still got a better shot than than McCain and Palin, and the crisis we're in requires us to go out and take a chance and place a bet now. And so I think I'm likely to vote for Obama at this point. He can't be worse than Bush. I suppose I could vote for one of the third party guys, but then it's a risk of just giving it all to McCain.

Re: Why are you voting for Obama?

im voting for obama. (i would have voted for hillary)

1. because he's got a great smile. (joke before you guys go nuts!)
2. i want to support someone who is different and i tend to enjoy lawyers as presidents.
3. abortion rights/ female rights.
4. his level-headedness.
5. i like him in speeches, with people, i like when he talks. hes a great listener. doesn't interrupt people, and doesn't try to talk over anyone. (which is something mccain lacks a lot of!)
6. he's diverse and i like that he could show our nation that being different is a good thing, not something to be scared of.
7. i adore his wife. she is going to be amazing as the lady in the house.
8. i like how he wants to help lower class people like myself.

there are more.. i just woke up and thats a short list that people can attack...

reasons i would not vote for mccain -

1. sarah palin.
2. his team think that females are so stupid and so easily swayed by a pussy, that we'd vote for them because sarah is a woman. not only is she dumb as a doornail, when they tried comparing her to hillary it was too funny.
3. war machine/ big oil/ drilling
4. environment and them pretending nothing is going on.
5. the over religiousness of some of their people.
6. their racist snarky terrorist calling-out dickhead supporters.

mm

Re: Why are you voting for Obama?

some good posts in this thread... :D

Re: Why are you voting for Obama?

the main reason im voting for Obama is quite simple, ive done some research, checked his tax plans, etc etc, but the main one is because the dude makes me feel a bit confident, to be honest, im sick and tired of waking up in the morning and having this feeling of uncertainty, because our current goberment for the past years has been beating us with the "fear" stick.

i know Obama wont come in and resolve every issue in the fucking world, or fix the economy in a blink of an eye, but at least the dude gives you something to look fort in the future, not like Bush has done lately, where i dont really know if things are gonna be ok tomorrow morning.

Re: Why are you voting for Obama?

[quote=Miroslav;670540]Here's your answer:

[B]1. Taxes.[/B] When taken in net dollars, both candidates are similar in where they end up. I just feel that it's worth taking the chance of moving to a more progressive tax system for the near term during this crisis. We can't really afford to lower taxes a lot right now, and we can't really afford to increase everyone's taxes. The rich just have to shoulder a bit more for the near term. I know the dangers of overtaxing them, but I just think that's our best option now.

[B]2. Deficit.[/B] McCain's proposals increase the deficit by near the same amount if not more than Obama's proposals. If we're going to dig our way more into debt, then dollar for dollar I'll take my chances with Obama's plans. Specifically...

[B]3. Healthcare.[/B] I think his healthcare plan in particular seems like it has a better shot of getting people covered. McCain's tax credits will discourage employers from providing healthcare and will create more of a cash flow issue for lower income families - they can't afford to just wait for their credit when they need to buy now. McCain's plan is better for young people who shop around, but it will be worse for older people with conditions who lose their health insurance at work. Obama's plan is more vague than I would like, but so is McCain's.

[B]4. Iraq. [/B]Obama would work to get us out. McCain is the kind of guy who would charge ahead like a bull in a china shop under any and all circumstances. It's called "escalation of commitment error" - look it up in your organizational behavior theory textbook.

[B]5. International Diplomacy.[/B] This whole "meeting without preconditions" thing was way overblown - it doesn't mean sitting down to tea and presents with Ahmadinejad. What it does mean is actually doing some sort of diplomacy. The US is learning that it is no longer the impervious big kid on the block who can do anything and get away with it. We need someone who understands the concept of being [I]strategic[/I] and working with other nations, and not following the "bull in a china shop" model.

[B]6. McCain's negative campaigning.[/B] I'm getting pretty damn sick of hearing McCain and Palin trying to paint Obama as a terrorist-loving, America-hating Communist. It's ridiculous, and in my view only the most backwards Americans buy into it. And I'm sick of hearing Palin and other Republicans insinuate who is a "real American" and who isn't patriotic enough (i.e., doesn't agree with them). It says more about McCain's/Palin's personality and leadership philosophy than it does about Obama.

[B]7. McCain's erratic response to the bailout crisis. [/B]I thought McCain's whole campaign suspension thing was just a way to politicize the bailout process for his benefit (and it failed). Obama was on the phone with the treasury secretary daily and he was in the meeting with Bush. He didn't go around all lathered up, trying to drum up big publicity for his involvement. And this a week after he proclaimed that "the fundamentals of our economy are strong". I'd rather have someone who can keep a level head before charging around.

[B]8. Sarah Palin.[/B] I just can't take McCain seriously after his choice of running mate. He talks about how experience matters, and then picks the one person in the nation with less experience than Obama? Yes, she has some executive experience, but she has spent zero time dealing with national security issues, zero time with foreign policy issues, zero time with Constitutional issues. Obama has, and he can articulate and reason with those issues. Her interviews were not "gotcha questions"; it was just a demonstration of the fact that she wasn't very good at articulating her opinions under fire. All she has done since then is play the folksy Joe Sixpack "you Betcha" maverick since then - while accusing Obama of being a Communist - and that does not impress me. Maybe she'll be ready some day, but she's not now. We could have chosen to not vote for Obama if we think he's too inexperienced, but we can't kick her ass out of office right away if we voted for McCain and he kicks the bucket.

[B]9. Even after all his changes, McCain's similarity to the past 8 years of politics and Bush.[/B] The past 8 years have sucked for many people. McCain has personally had a hand in that, when he voted for Bush's proposals over 90% of the time. I see no reason to believe that he will really be different now. I don't think he even has the intangible qualities of charisma to actually get enough of the nation to try to implement his vision of changing [I]something [/I]so that the next eight years don't suck as bad. I'm all for letting the wealthy people in this country be successful and reap great rewards, but I think we've moved a bit too far on the spectrum of economic polarization. While the top people are getting exponentially richer, lower class people cannot make ends meet with one or even two full-time jobs. And that should not be.

I'm not saying that Obama is all peaches and cream. In fact, I don't like the guy all that much and I think he should have been running in a later election if anything. Obama is a risk, because there is a lot we don't really know about him. But I think he's still got a better shot than than McCain and Palin, and the crisis we're in requires us to go out and take a chance and place a bet now. And so I think I'm likely to vote for Obama at this point. He can't be worse than Bush. I suppose I could vote for one of the third party guys, but then it's a risk of just giving it all to McCain.[/quote]

Great post, Miro. I actually just posted this as a MySpace bulletin, hoping to sway at the last minute some McCain voters. Hope you don't mind...

Re: Why are you voting for Obama?

@ bsully. spot on in reagrds to the [I][U]majority, not all, majority[/U][/I] of obamacons. these people cannot give a single stance other than NOT BUSH. again, the sheer idiocy stands as thier most popular trait.

@miro. well said. better than anythign most people have said. single most specific post reagding a pro obama stance. the rest have been too avague and quote change without how.

Re: Why are you voting for Obama?

[QUOTE=Miroslav;670540]Here's your answer:

[B]1. Taxes.[/B] When taken in net dollars, both candidates are similar in where they end up. I just feel that it's worth taking the chance of moving to a more progressive tax system for the near term during this crisis. We can't really afford to lower taxes a lot right now, and we can't really afford to increase everyone's taxes. The rich just have to shoulder a bit more for the near term. I know the dangers of overtaxing them, but I just think that's our best option now.

[B]2. Deficit.[/B] McCain's proposals increase the deficit by near the same amount if not more than Obama's proposals. If we're going to dig our way more into debt, then dollar for dollar I'll take my chances with Obama's plans. Specifically...

[B]3. Healthcare.[/B] I think his healthcare plan in particular seems like it has a better shot of getting people covered. McCain's tax credits will discourage employers from providing healthcare and will create more of a cash flow issue for lower income families - they can't afford to just wait for their credit when they need to buy now. McCain's plan is better for young people who shop around, but it will be worse for older people with conditions who lose their health insurance at work. Obama's plan is more vague than I would like, but so is McCain's.

[B]4. Iraq. [/B]Obama would work to get us out. McCain is the kind of guy who would charge ahead like a bull in a china shop under any and all circumstances. It's called "escalation of commitment error" - look it up in your organizational behavior theory textbook.

[B]5. International Diplomacy.[/B] This whole "meeting without preconditions" thing was way overblown - it doesn't mean sitting down to tea and presents with Ahmadinejad. What it does mean is actually doing some sort of diplomacy. The US is learning that it is no longer the impervious big kid on the block who can do anything and get away with it. We need someone who understands the concept of being [I]strategic[/I] and working with other nations, and not following the "bull in a china shop" model.

[B]6. McCain's negative campaigning.[/B] I'm getting pretty damn sick of hearing McCain and Palin trying to paint Obama as a terrorist-loving, America-hating Communist. It's ridiculous, and in my view only the most backwards Americans buy into it. And I'm sick of hearing Palin and other Republicans insinuate who is a "real American" and who isn't patriotic enough (i.e., doesn't agree with them). It says more about McCain's/Palin's personality and leadership philosophy than it does about Obama.

[B]7. McCain's erratic response to the bailout crisis. [/B]I thought McCain's whole campaign suspension thing was just a way to politicize the bailout process for his benefit (and it failed). Obama was on the phone with the treasury secretary daily and he was in the meeting with Bush. He didn't go around all lathered up, trying to drum up big publicity for his involvement. And this a week after he proclaimed that "the fundamentals of our economy are strong". I'd rather have someone who can keep a level head before charging around.

[B]8. Sarah Palin.[/B] I just can't take McCain seriously after his choice of running mate. He talks about how experience matters, and then picks the one person in the nation with less experience than Obama? Yes, she has some executive experience, but she has spent zero time dealing with national security issues, zero time with foreign policy issues, zero time with Constitutional issues. Obama has, and he can articulate and reason with those issues. Her interviews were not "gotcha questions"; it was just a demonstration of the fact that she wasn't very good at articulating her opinions under fire. All she has done since then is play the folksy Joe Sixpack "you Betcha" maverick since then - while accusing Obama of being a Communist - and that does not impress me. Maybe she'll be ready some day, but she's not now. We could have chosen to not vote for Obama if we think he's too inexperienced, but we can't kick her ass out of office right away if we voted for McCain and he kicks the bucket.

[B]9. Even after all his changes, McCain's similarity to the past 8 years of politics and Bush.[/B] The past 8 years have sucked for many people. McCain has personally had a hand in that, when he voted for Bush's proposals over 90% of the time. I see no reason to believe that he will really be different now. I don't think he even has the intangible qualities of charisma to actually get enough of the nation to try to implement his vision of changing [I]something [/I]so that the next eight years don't suck as bad. I'm all for letting the wealthy people in this country be successful and reap great rewards, but I think we've moved a bit too far on the spectrum of economic polarization. While the top people are getting exponentially richer, lower class people cannot make ends meet with one or even two full-time jobs. And that should not be.

I'm not saying that Obama is all peaches and cream. In fact, I don't like the guy all that much and I think he should have been running in a later election if anything. Obama is a risk, because there is a lot we don't really know about him. But I think he's still got a better shot than than McCain and Palin, and the crisis we're in requires us to go out and take a chance and place a bet now. And so I think I'm likely to vote for Obama at this point. He can't be worse than Bush. I suppose I could vote for one of the third party guys, but then it's a risk of just giving it all to McCain.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=chloe harris;670541]im voting for obama. (i would have voted for hillary)

1. because he's got a great smile. (joke before you guys go nuts!)
2. i want to support someone who is different and i tend to enjoy lawyers as presidents.
3. abortion rights/ female rights.
4. his level-headedness.
5. i like him in speeches, with people, i like when he talks. hes a great listener. doesn't interrupt people, and doesn't try to talk over anyone. (which is something mccain lacks a lot of!)
6. he's diverse and i like that he could show our nation that being different is a good thing, not something to be scared of.
7. i adore his wife. she is going to be amazing as the lady in the house.
8. i like how he wants to help lower class people like myself.

there are more.. i just woke up and thats a short list that people can attack...

reasons i would not vote for mccain -

1. sarah palin.
2. his team think that females are so stupid and so easily swayed by a pussy, that we'd vote for them because sarah is a woman. not only is she dumb as a doornail, when they tried comparing her to hillary it was too funny.
3. war machine/ big oil/ drilling
4. environment and them pretending nothing is going on.
5. the over religiousness of some of their people.
6. their racist snarky terrorist calling-out dickhead supporters.

mm[/QUOTE]

:RightOn: :RightOn: :RightOn:

Re: Why are you voting for Obama?

are there not complete and utter minion tools in the republican party too? ive seen them. you have too. the ones who shout 'terrorist' or 'kill him' or 'im not voting for him because he's a muslim'.

these people seem pretty fucking stupid to me because they are blindly following shit that isn't even true. how gullible and dumb.

Re: Why are you voting for Obama?

[quote=chloe harris;670615]are there not complete and utter minion tools in the republican party too? ive seen them. you have too. the ones who shout 'terrorist' or 'kill him' or 'im not voting for him because he's a muslim'.

these people seem pretty fucking stupid to me because they are blindly following shit that isn't even true. how gullible and dumb.[/quote]

i want to do a unique form a violence to these people. hit them over the head with a textbook until they bleed to death. no weapons, just a textbook. maybe "the audacity of hope". you wouldnt beleive how many people cant get the picture of him in the afircan robes out of their heaeds. i asked one idiot at the debate this question "do you maybe think he wore that out of respect? like when people wear suits to weddings and funerals?".

Re: Why are you voting for Obama?

If Obama wins I can't wait to "disburse my wealth"...kinda socialist IMO.

Don't get me wrong I am not a big McCain supporter but I think that I will disagree with him less that Obama. I am very disappointed in the Republican party for allowing McCain to be the candidate, I think they could have done so much better.

Re: Why are you voting for Obama?

call me i am already setting up my tax returns to avoid it.

you will have to

1. have your employer pay you via 1099.
2. open a corp
3. get credit cards and bank acocunts in company name.
4. find a creative tax professional

keep every receipt. dinner, food, gas, bills, everything.

no fucking way im giving my hard earned money to some idiot who couldnt graduate high school

Re: Why are you voting for Obama?

[quote=Nigel Harkness;670623]If Obama wins I can't wait to "disburse my wealth"...kinda socialist IMO.

Don't get me wrong I am not a big McCain supporter but I think that I will disagree with him less that Obama. I am very disappointed in the Republican party for allowing McCain to be the candidate, I think they could have done so much better.[/quote]

don't ya think tho in some ways, its kinda fair if you have to pay a bit more in tax being that you make 200,000 +? not because you don't work hard, not because we are stealing from you, really just because you and a lot of other people can afford it.

and if that in turn helps our economy become stronger we'll all be better off as a society no?

Re: Why are you voting for Obama?

[quote=chloe harris;670630]don't ya think tho in some ways, its kinda fair if you have to pay a bit more in tax being that you make 200,000 +? not because you don't work hard, not because we are stealing from you, really just because you and a lot of other people can afford it.

and if that in turn helps our economy become stronger we'll all be better off as a society no?[/quote]

hell no. if i work hard i deserve just as much of my $ as the guy who makes 10x less than me. i can afford it because of what i am doing, working hard, and what i have accomplished. why punish success?

Re: Why are you voting for Obama?

Not for hard earned money that I earned, there are to many people leeching off of the government aid programs and I don't believe that disbursing the money of other hard-working Americans into these groups of needy people will encourage anything by lazyness.

I don't believe that the money will be just from people or buisnesses making over $200K I also believe that it will come from the miiddle class to and this country can't handle that right now. And I am by no means making anywhere near $200K so it would not affect me if that is what would happen I just don't like the idea of disbursing others money, that IMO is Marxist.

Re: Why are you voting for Obama?

Chloe's post laying out her positions earlier echoes my sentiments pretty closely. Being from the south, I've had to live with the religious cancer that I call the "Christian Taliban," and their lack of common sense and critical thinking absolutely disgusts me. Not to mention their not-so-veiled racism and proudly declared bigotry against gay people, non-Christians, and anybody else who isn't exactly like they are (white racists and bigots... and I'm white btw). It's amazing to me how people can cling so much to outdated/morally wrong ideas, even when they know them to be outdated/morally wrong (take that guy at the McCain rally who had a monkey labeled "Obama", and then when the camera caught him, he tried to play it off and give the monkey to a kid in front of him). Obama's "bitter" comments received a lot of flak, but I thought they were spot on. I know they were about people in rural Pennsylvania instead of the south, but the same mindset that's in the south prevails there as well. Furthermore, many of these so-called "compassionate conservatives" and their ilk practice the highest form of hypocracy. They beat the Bible like a dead horse, yet are never about helping their fellow man unless it's by bringing (read: forcing) God, democracy, whatever-the-fuck else they deem righteous into other people's lives. GTFO already.

Palin is everything I just said personified. She must go back to Alaska and take the Christian Taliban with her.

But enough about why I hate whatever you call this mindset (social conservatism, neo-conservatism, etc.) that permeates the Republican party. Now for the reasons I'm passionately supporting Obama.

First, such disgust with conservatism has driven me to be very liberal/progressive socially, and that starts with abortion rights, gay rights, freedom to say "fucking goddammit" when I want, etc. Obama supports similar ideas, so I support him there.

Next, the Iraq war. I've laid out my position on Iraq verbosely a few times, but the long and short of is I'm against it. So is he.

Third, Obama has much more knowledge of economics than McCain (which you could say of a pet rock, too), but he also will surround himself with the right people as well, should he need their advice. I also agree with bringing the tax code that existed under Clinton back, which he wants to do.

Fourth, his natural people skills will go far in restoring America's diplomatic prestige in the world. Republicans call it weakness or whatever, but it's much more effective/efficient to make friends than to kill enemies. Obama will be infinitely better at making this happen than McCain.

I tend to agree with Obama's philosophy and policy positions on most of the other issues as well, with the exception of his energy plan. I like what he has planned, but I think nuclear power (through the use of breeder reactors - much more efficient) should be worked into the plan more. France has a pretty good model to follow with their nuclear grid, and breeder reactors use what is considered waste from reactors we currently use.

More importantly than any policy position however, is Obama's personality/leadership traits. There is no sense of panic that comes from him, which can't be said about McCain. We need somebody, especially now, who has a level head and calm demeanor and will make deliberate decisions, instead of being so reactionary like Bush has been and McCain was with his response to the economic crisis. Both Bush and McCain seem to have an immaturity about them by refusing to see all sides of an issue (like some kind of over-compensating, over-agressive frat dude or something) whereas Obama comes off as the old/wise one. For the last 8 years, fear has come from the top. I haven't once felt assured by what Bush has said or done because he always seemed proud of himself just that he made it through a speech. Someone that terrible at communication does not inspire confidence. (for what it's worth Reagan was good at communication) Even if Obama is faking his calmness, we need somebody who can calm the nation, especially with tough times ahead.

So there you have it. These are the reasons that I will weep for our nation should McCain win, and the reasons that I'm passionately supporting Barack Obama. Yes we can.

Re: Why are you voting for Obama?

then u don't need to worry eh. ^

anyway i thought about this, and shosh i said before it didn't have anything to do with your hard work... maybe it would be easier for everyone if we got to see where our tax money went exactly. i know we 'get' to see bits of it... if i made loads of cash and was taxed on it and knew i was going to help pay for education, protecting the environment and finding new ways of energy, i'd gladly pay those taxes. if i knew my money was going to help people in africa then i'd be happy about giving up my money and lastly if i knew i was going to help my people id stand up and be a man about it and act like its a responsibility i have as a human to help my children achieve what i may have.

i dunno thats just me tho. i'd happily pay extra taxes if i made 200+ especially because there are so many ways of getting tax write offs.

Re: Why are you voting for Obama?

[quote=chloe harris;670630]don't ya think tho in some ways, its kinda fair if you have to pay a bit more in tax being that you make 200,000 +? not because you don't work hard, not because we are stealing from you, really just because you and a lot of other people can afford it.

and if that in turn helps our economy become stronger we'll all be better off as a society no?[/quote] I see where you're going with this. And I agree with you that everyone should pay their fair share. I've even become willing to take the chance of Obama's more progressive tax structure at this point in our economic cycle. But let me tell you as a professional finance guy, it's not always that simple. And there is real risk in overtaxing rich people.

Very briefly, we're fundamentally a successful country when the people and entities with deep pockets are free to deploy their capital in creative, risk-taking ways and reap the consequences (hopefully positive) thereof. And yes, that still applies even now as we've had to bail out a bunch of stupid banks because of the crisis we're in. In general, you want to avoid what we call too many "frictions" (red tape, expense, other burden, etc.) in the capital allocation process. That means you don't want to make it excessively bureaucratic, expensive, or punishing to deploy capital, because if you do, then those rich people with deep pockets will take their money elsewhere - it's a global economy now - and deploy it there. In a global, efficient market, capital moves to the place wherever it earns the best reward for the risk taken.

To your point, perhaps people might be more willing to part with their tax dollars if they could really see the benefit of it. Unfortunately, there is a pervasive and long-standing mistrust of the government's ability to efficiently and effectively invest tax dollars in a way that people see as broadly beneficial. They see that they pay in and then get two wars a bunch of expensive bailouts for companies that screwed up while the government was asleep at the switch in regulating them. And they see that social security is bankrupt and that healthcare is more expensive than ever. And a $1 trillion deficit.

Have you ever wondered why so many lower income people in rural places tend to be Republican, even though it seems they might be the ones who could benefit most from assistance? Maybe it's because they don't really ever trust that they'll get something for the dollars they give to lawyers and government officials. Maybe they've learned that all they can rely on is themselves and that sometimes their pride is all they have left.

Maybe Obama can start to change that....it's a pretty tall order and he's got his work cut out for him....

Re: Why are you voting for Obama?

[QUOTE=thesightless;670625]call me i am already setting up my tax returns to avoid it.

you will have to

1. have your employer pay you via 1099.
2. open a corp
3. get credit cards and bank acocunts in company name.
4. find a creative tax professional

keep every receipt. dinner, food, gas, bills, everything.

no fucking way im giving my hard earned money to some idiot who couldnt graduate high school[/QUOTE]

^ I've been doing this for years. 8)

btw, did the early voting thing today, went smoothly, only took about 30 mins. sean, except for presidential, i voted independent and green when it was available. can we hug?

Re: Why are you voting for Obama?

[quote=thesightless;670625]call me i am already setting up my tax returns to avoid it.

you will have to

1. have your employer pay you via 1099.
2. open a corp
3. get credit cards and bank acocunts in company name.
4. find a creative tax professional

keep every receipt. dinner, food, gas, bills, everything.

no fucking way im giving my hard earned money to some idiot who couldnt graduate high school[/quote]

like jenks said, ive been doing this for the past 6 years, but ive still been paying a shit load of taxes

[quote=chloe harris;670645]then u don't need to worry eh. ^

anyway i thought about this, and shosh i said before it didn't have anything to do with your hard work... maybe it would be easier for everyone if we got to see where our tax money went exactly. i know we 'get' to see bits of it... if i made loads of cash and was taxed on it and knew i was going to help pay for education, protecting the environment and finding new ways of energy, i'd gladly pay those taxes. if i knew my money was going to help people in africa then i'd be happy about giving up my money and lastly if i knew i was going to help my people id stand up and be a man about it and act like its a responsibility i have as a human to help my children achieve what i may have.

i dunno thats just me tho. i'd happily pay extra taxes if i made 200+ especially because there are so many ways of getting tax write offs.[/quote]

i still dont think or want to pay a higher percentage than the rest. i dont feel its right. if i choose to give money away, i want to do so of my own choosing, not because i am forced to or my money is taken away from me. i already give plenty to charities and as i make more money i will give more, i just dont want to give to some lunatic's crazy plans.

Re: Why are you voting for Obama?

[QUOTE=Jenks;670660]except for presidential, i voted independent and green when it was available. can we hug?[/QUOTE]

i did the same.

as for why i voted Obama, i really echo everything about Miroslav & chloe. the meain reason being Palin... as i have said before, she scares the crap out of me.

as far as income, i agree with shosh. even though i dont make over 200 a year, i think my hard work should not be penalized more than the guy working at mcdonalds.