I am one of those undecided voters. It's October 29th and I still don't know who to vote for. It may not matter given the fact that YOMAMA is looking like he will run away with the election. Either way I am not sure who to cast my vote for...

I consider myself to be a decent political mind. I read endlessly and know way more than I would like to about all the candidates in question...so why can't I just fall in line with Obama like everyone else seems to be doing? I am actually giving serious consideration to voting for Dr. No aka Bob Barr...the one thing I really love about Dr. No is that he actually believes in fiscal responsibility. We are a country that is in very very very deep debt and because of this our future generations will face a future where the stores and companies they support will be owned and controlled by Sven in Sweden and Yoshi in Japan or Abdul in Saudi Arabia. The longer we stay on this path the less American our country will become. Just my opinion...

Both McCain and Obama intend to increase our spending...here is what the NTUF has projected:

Total Proposed Annual Increase in Spending By Candidate:

McCain $92.4 billion Obama $292 billion Dr. No -$200 billion

Someone please wipe away the fog from my eyes!

In this world and its current state Obama is the most logical guy to go around the world and try to repair the damage that has been done by Bush giving the middle finger to so many world leaders...McCain deserves it more but his time has past and Palin well...what can you say about her?

Seriously though who are you voting for and why??

Re: Undecided voter...who the hell should I vote for?

if you can't decide why not look at the vps for your decision since they would be the ones that could take over.. espcially in mccain's case.

read up about sarah falin because she is one nutter we don't need anywhere near the fucking white house...

Re: Undecided voter...who the hell should I vote for?

For a brief overview of why you should vote for Obama over McCain, please take a look at every post I've written in this section over the last 21 months.

:lol:

Re: Undecided voter...who the hell should I vote for?

and watch this [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mg5tl87rEE4[/url]

Re: Undecided voter...who the hell should I vote for?

Prior to Palin being brought in I was very excited that McCain was finally going to get what he deserves after a lifetime of service. Then Palin came in and I lost all hope for McCain and his campaign...so for the most part I have ruled out McCain-Palin.

I just know SO many people who are voting for Obama and they have absolutely no idea why...

Re: Undecided voter...who the hell should I vote for?

[QUOTE=toasty;669246]For a brief overview of why you should vote for Obama over McCain, please take a look at every post I've written in this section over the last 21 months.

:lol:[/QUOTE]

I hear ya Toasty...trust me I do, but can you sum it up? and why not vote Green or Libertarian?

Re: Undecided voter...who the hell should I vote for?

because you are smarter than the people who fall in line because of teh word CHANGE, irregardless of the facts. most of obama's fans are frankly dumb, evidenced by howard stern's lackeys walking around the bronx asking why people were voting for obama/pallin ticket, citing mccains policies as obama's.

listen. just read ALL of them. even if you are dilutiing the vote against these two morons, its your right. dont ever let any pressure you into a candidate you dont feel is right, frankly, neither of them are. make a statement and vote indie. there are about a dozen candidates availble on ballot. use em.

and if you have to generalize your thoughts into basic categories, do so. money, rights, domestic and foreign policy, taxes, whatever. go with what YOU feel is right. not what pitchmen for two chumps tell you is. we did that for the last 16 years.

Re: Undecided voter...who the hell should I vote for?

[quote=Weizy;669252]Prior to Palin being brought in I was very excited that McCain was finally going to get what he deserves after a lifetime of service. Then Palin came in and I lost all hope for McCain and his campaign...so for the most part I have ruled out McCain-Palin.

I just know SO many people who are voting for Obama and they have absolutely no idea why...[/quote]

Its funny you say that. There are 2 reasons most people I talk with wont vote for McCain

1. they think he will be another Bush and
2. they dont like the fact that he picked Palin.

Re: Undecided voter...who the hell should I vote for?

not to be rude, but really? it took the Palin factour for you to realise McCain wasnt worthy of running the country?

I mean god bless the man for serving the US of A, but I dont think becoming President is something you "finally get" because you deserve it after a lifetime of service, it's something you need to earn the right to become because you are the right person for the job.. having said that who knows if Obama is that person, but out of the two (and I know there are more choices, but lets be realistic) I really dont see McButter Teeth being anywhere near competent to run the country.

[QUOTE]Its funny you say that. There are 2 reasons most people I talk with wont vote for McCain

1. they think he will be another Bush and
2. they dont like the fact that he picked Palin.[/QUOTE]

isnt that enough of a reason?

Re: Undecided voter...who the hell should I vote for?

[quote=Steve Graham;669265]not to be rude, but really? it took the Palin factour for you to realise McCain wasnt worthy of running the country?

I mean god bless the man for serving the US of A, but I dont think becoming President is something you "finally get" because you deserve it after a lifetime of service, it's something you need to earn the right to become because you are the right person for the job.. having said that who knows if Obama is that person, but out of the two (and I know there are more choices, but lets be realistic) I really dont see McButter Teeth being anywhere near competent to run the country.

isnt that enough of a reason?[/quote]

no. Obama will be much worse for our country.

Re: Undecided voter...who the hell should I vote for?

[QUOTE=thesightless;669255]because you are smarter than the people who fall in line because of teh word CHANGE, irregardless of the facts. most of obama's fans are frankly dumb, evidenced by howard stern's lackeys walking around the bronx asking why people were voting for obama/pallin ticket, citing mccains policies as obama's.

listen. just read ALL of them. even if you are dilutiing the vote against these two morons, its your right. dont ever let any pressure you into a candidate you dont feel is right, frankly, neither of them are. make a statement and vote indie. there are about a dozen candidates availble on ballot. use em.

and if you have to generalize your thoughts into basic categories, do so. money, rights, domestic and foreign policy, taxes, whatever. go with what YOU feel is right. not what pitchmen for two chumps tell you is. we did that for the last 16 years.[/QUOTE]

thanks sightless....that kinda took the words out my mouth...I believe a healthy portion of our voter's are well-read and well-informed and overall know how to make sound decisions. keep in mind I am only 26 so what the hell do I know?

just like you are saying Obama bring the "Wow" factor which many young people like myself find VERY APPEALING. Why are you voting for Obama? Ummm...for a change.

Ugh thank god the election will be over soon...no more calls, no more flyers and please god no more TV ads.

Re: Undecided voter...who the hell should I vote for?

i agree obama will be bad, but comon now, mccain, while more liberal in POV and preferring smaller gov't will embed us in iraq, when we just let them go into the wind. he will not break party ties on civil surveillance, gay rights and abortion.....

both of them are gonna be terrible in consequence. we are emotionally split as it is, and its only going to get worse. and i fear, violent.

Re: Undecided voter...who the hell should I vote for?

[QUOTE=thesightless;669255]irregardless of the facts. most of obama's fans are frankly dumb[/QUOTE]

"irregardless" isn't a word. It's worse than messing up "your/you're." You're from Jersey aren't you?

And you're calling others dumb? :lol:

Re: Undecided voter...who the hell should I vote for?

@ weizy, YUP

slowly, ppl are getting smarter and voicing the displeasure of these two monopolistic groups who have gutted this nation. they both are to blame, its convienient how people disregard the fact that the HOUSES make up law, and they are democratic controlled. GW bad, but what does that make the group of people who can override him, who write the laws, who create the budget etc....... THINK> FFS THINK

Re: Undecided voter...who the hell should I vote for?

[quote=Jenks;669277]"irregardless" isn't a word. It's worse than messing up "your/you're." You're from Jersey aren't you?

who's the dumbass now? :p[/quote]

[URL]http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/irregardless[/URL] :roll:

Re: Undecided voter...who the hell should I vote for?

[quote=Jenks;669277]"irregardless" isn't a word. It's worse than messing up "your/you're." You're from Jersey aren't you?

And you're calling others dumb? :lol:[/quote] [URL]http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=irregardless[/URL]

i beleive it is, just wrong grammer. excuse me , improper.

edit : and stop hijacking douche.

Re: Undecided voter...who the hell should I vote for?

yeah, read the bottom of the link you posted:

[quote]Irregardless is a word that many mistakenly believe to be correct usage in formal style, when in fact it is used chiefly in nonstandard speech or casual writing. Coined in the United States in the early 20th century, it has met with a blizzard of condemnation for being an improper yoking of irrespective and regardless and for the logical absurdity of combining the negative ir- prefix and -less suffix in a single term. Although one might reasonably argue that it is no different from words with redundant affixes like debone and unravel, it has been considered a blunder for decades and will probably continue to be so.[/quote]

feel free to keep using it tho boneheads.

Re: Undecided voter...who the hell should I vote for?

[quote=thesightless;669279]@ weizy, YUP

slowly, ppl are getting smarter and voicing the displeasure of these two monopolistic groups who have gutted this nation. they both are to blame, its convienient how people disregard the fact that the HOUSES make up law, and they are democratic controlled. GW bad, but what does that make the group of people who can override him, who write the laws, who create the budget etc....... THINK> FFS THINK[/quote]

We need more political parties or better yet, no political parties. Every election its the same thing. 2 candidates who arent worth shit.

Re: Undecided voter...who the hell should I vote for?

[quote=Jenks;669283]taken from the "definition" you found:

"irregardless is a word that many mistakenly believe to be correct usage"[/quote]

i have a co-worker that uses that "word"... does my head in

[QUOTE]no. Obama will be much worse for our country.[/QUOTE]

how do you know that Nostradamus?

dont answer its rhetorical

Re: Undecided voter...who the hell should I vote for?

[QUOTE=Weizy;669254]I hear ya Toasty...trust me I do, but can you sum it up? and why not vote Green or Libertarian?[/QUOTE]

Voting Green or Libertarian is a vote to make a point, not get someone elected. There are elections where I'd rather make a point than see the person I'm supporting get elected; this isn't one of them. If I were ambivalent between the two major party candidates, I'd think about voting Libertarian. I'm not, though, so I'm voting Obama.

Some reasons, briefly, that I'm supporting Obama:

1. Restoring our stature in the world.
2. Putting an end to Bush's economic policies.
3. The next president is going to have the opportunity to appoint at least one more justice -- Stevens is 88 years old -- and there are 3 justices (Ginsberg, Scalia, and Kennedy) that are 72 or more and could reasonably come off of the bench for any of a host of different reasons. McCain has said that his ideal justice would be someone in the mold of Antonin Scalia, which ought to disqualify someone from being president IMO.
4. Much more realistic, broad-based plan for developing energy independence.
5. Intelligent use of the military.
6. Increased transparency

There's more, but that's a pretty good start.

Oh, and I'm ready to have a president I can be proud of again, that promotes a positive, unifying message rather than one that is inherently negative. For about the last 6 years, most of my political thoughts have been fueled by anger, disillusionment, and hopelessness. Obama supporters are often ridiculed for being drawn to his message of hope and change, but if that message gets people involved in the process and excited about being Americans, I don't see how that can be anything but a postive step in the right direction.

Feel free to throw any specific questions my way, via pm or otherwise -- I've got a pretty good handle on his platform...

Re: Undecided voter...who the hell should I vote for?

[QUOTE=toasty;669337]Voting Green or Libertarian is a vote to make a point, not get someone elected. There are elections where I'd rather make a point than see the person I'm supporting get elected; this isn't one of them. If I were ambivalent between the two major party candidates, I'd think about voting Libertarian. I'm not, though, so I'm voting Obama.

Some reasons, briefly, that I'm supporting Obama:

1. Restoring our stature in the world.
2. Putting an end to Bush's economic policies.
3. The next president is going to have the opportunity to appoint at least one more justice -- Stevens is 88 years old -- and there are 3 justices (Ginsberg, Scalia, and Kennedy) that are 72 or more and could reasonably come off of the bench for any of a host of different reasons. McCain has said that his ideal justice would be someone in the mold of Antonin Scalia, which ought to disqualify someone from being president IMO.
4. Much more realistic, broad-based plan for developing energy independence.
5. Intelligent use of the military.
6. Increased transparency

There's more, but that's a pretty good start.

Oh, and I'm ready to have a president I can be proud of again, that promotes a positive, unifying message rather than one that is inherently negative. For about the last 6 years, most of my political thoughts have been fueled by anger, disillusionment, and hopelessness. Obama supporters are often ridiculed for being drawn to his message of hope and change, but if that message gets people involved in the process and excited about being Americans, I don't see how that can be anything but a postive step in the right direction.

Feel free to throw any specific questions my way, via pm or otherwise -- I've got a pretty good handle on his platform...[/QUOTE]

that was VERY well put!

either way McCain is out so that only leaves Obama and Barr for me. Does it really matter though given how far ahead Obama is projected to be?

Re: Undecided voter...who the hell should I vote for?

[QUOTE=Weizy;669341] Does it really matter though given how far ahead Obama is projected to be?[/QUOTE]

[B]HELL YES[/B] it matters!!!! :D

If the polls numbers are to be believed, this is Obama's race to lose. That doesn't mean he won't, though, and the only way that happens, IMO, is through voter complacency (or voter suppression, I suppose, but that's another discussion entirely). The biggest danger is that people don't bother to vote -- or vote for someone else -- because they think it's in the bag. Enough people do that, and you start to have a problem.

If the poll numbers can't be believed, expect it to cut against Obama, in which case he's going to need every vote he can get.

So please, please, please get out and vote for Obama next Tuesday. If you're still not sold on him, do take a half an hour tonight and watch his thing. From what I've been able to gather, it is supposed to be a very substantive presentation that is squarely directed at answering questions of undecided voters like you about policy positions, governing philosophy, etc., as opposed to lofty, unspecific rhetoric that speaks to people like me that are already supporting him.

Re: Undecided voter...who the hell should I vote for?

toasty, I for one really really appreciate your level headed well thought out posts during most of this election year

Re: Undecided voter...who the hell should I vote for?

Toasty for president 2012!!!

Re: Undecided voter...who the hell should I vote for?

[QUOTE=Steve Graham;669359]toasty, I for one really really appreciate your level headed well thought out posts during most of this election year[/QUOTE]

Thanks, I do make a concerted effort to keep it above board whenever possible -- difficult as that may be at times. Now with that said, I'd invite you to go take a look at my recent post pertaining to [URL="http://www.mercuryserver.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61994"]evangelical christians worshiping a gigantic bronze statue of a bull[/URL] in the middle of Manhattan's financial district. ;)

Re: Undecided voter...who the hell should I vote for?

[QUOTE=toasty;669351][B]HELL YES[/B] it matters!!!! :D

If the polls numbers are to be believed, this is Obama's race to lose. That doesn't mean he won't, though, and the only way that happens, IMO, is through voter complacency (or voter suppression, I suppose, but that's another discussion entirely). The biggest danger is that people don't bother to vote -- or vote for someone else -- because they think it's in the bag. Enough people do that, and you start to have a problem.

If the poll numbers can't be believed, expect it to cut against Obama, in which case he's going to need every vote he can get.

So please, please, please get out and vote for Obama next Tuesday. If you're still not sold on him, do take a half an hour tonight and watch his thing. From what I've been able to gather, it is supposed to be a very substantive presentation that is squarely directed at answering questions of undecided voters like you about policy positions, governing philosophy, etc., as opposed to lofty, unspecific rhetoric that speaks to people like me that are already supporting him.[/QUOTE]

thanks for taking the time to break this down a bit for me. much appreciated!!!

Re: Undecided voter...who the hell should I vote for?

[QUOTE=Weizy;669377]thanks for taking the time to break this down a bit for me. much appreciated!!![/QUOTE]

my pleasure. like I said, feel free to throw any other questions you may have my way...

Re: Undecided voter...who the hell should I vote for?

This is why obama will be bad: Obama, Pelosi, and Reid. If congress was with a republican majority than I could care less about this presedential election.

[IMG]http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/nancy_pelosi.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://www.moonbattery.com/harry-reid_nancy-pelosi.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Undecided voter...who the hell should I vote for?

Toasty, I'm curious as to your approach of constitutional interpretation. My understanding is that there are two ways; either study how the english common law at the time influence the founding fathers in addition to the constitutional congress' notes and such and derive the purpose and focus of the founding fathers, or, resort to making it up as we go along to effectuate a fair outcome.

I'll admit that our constitution is not perfect; but even as I disagree with Scalia on the way he comes out, I think, from what I've read, he's probably got the most consistent approach to interpretation of any of the justices on the bench in many, many years.

Re: Undecided voter...who the hell should I vote for?

[quote=Weizy;669341] Does it really matter though given how far ahead Obama is projected to be?[/quote]

Ive read that the last 72 hours of campaigning can really make a difference - with the example being that Al Gore was lagging a ways behind Bushie until the last 72 hours - and then he ended up winning the majority vote (not electoral). Any one have a comment on that?

So actually voting on the day is still important (IMO)

Re: Undecided voter...who the hell should I vote for?

[QUOTE=88Mariner;669752]My understanding is that there are two ways; either study how the english common law at the time influence the founding fathers in addition to the constitutional congress' notes and such and derive the purpose and focus of the founding fathers, or, resort to making it up as we go along to effectuate a fair outcome. [/QUOTE]

Well, first of all, I denounce and reject the way you've framed the question. It is not a choice between the studious and academic "deriving the purpose and focus of the founding fathers" and the free-wheeling, party-time "making it up as we go along." More substantively, though, I don't think I even agree that that accurately sets forth the two primary approaches, because the former leaves more room for interpretation than most strict constructionists would like, but that's really hair-splitting.

In my mind, there are two approaches to constitutional interpretation: (1) the "strict constructionist" approach, where the goal is to apply the letter of the constitution as closely as possible, avoiding interpretation at all except as necessary to determine what the founders meant [B]at the time[/B]; and (2) what I'll call the "living document" approach, where an effort is made to apply the underlying policies and principles of the founding fathers to make a judgment upon how the founders would come down on an issue (if at all) if given the opportunity to do so today.

I tend to follow the second approach. The world is a very different place than it was in 1787 and I don't have a problem if we as a society make an effort to interpret this 200+ year old document in a manner that is more consistent with the world in which we currently live, provided it happens in a rational and thoughtful manner. I'm not talking about changing the language as we go along, but interpreting the language in a manner that is consistent with the original intent and underlying purpose of the Constitution, but keeping the realities of modern living in mind.

[QUOTE=88Mariner;669752] I'll admit that our constitution is not perfect; but even as I disagree with Scalia on the way he comes out, I think, from what I've read, he's probably got the most consistent approach to interpretation of any of the justices on the bench in many, many years.[/QUOTE]

He has been consistent, I'll give him that. Doesn't mean he's been right, though. For other examples of wrong-headed but consistent-to-a-fault people see:

Bush, George W. Cheney, Richard Rumsfeld, Donald

Re: Undecided voter...who the hell should I vote for?

[QUOTE=Huggie Smiles;669771]Ive read that the last 72 hours of campaigning can really make a difference - with the example being that Al Gore was lagging a ways behind Bushie until the last 72 hours - and then he ended up winning the majority vote (not electoral). Any one have a comment on that?

So actually voting on the day is still important (IMO)[/QUOTE]

It's probably going to be less important this year than in years past, because so many states do early voting now, and many people have already cast their votes. I'm going to vote myself here in about an hour or so. True, the people that are taking advantage of early voting tend to be strong supporters and not undecided voters that would be impacted by 11th hour campaigning, but with so much early voting, candidates would have to be idiots to still have any arrows in their quiver at this point.

Remember in 2000, there was a last-minute revelation about Bush having an old, undisclosed DWI that helped move the polls for Gore. If McCain has something like that and hasn't used it yet in this age of early voting, he's a moron.

Re: Undecided voter...who the hell should I vote for?

Toasty the next time we get to hang out, the case of beers is on me. I knew there was right in even sensing a degree of optimism towards our next "leader" and if the man can ignite that vibe in you..... there's leadership right there at work.

God I wish I coulda fucking voted..... but I sure in hell am gonna pray Obama makes it.

[QUOTE=toasty;669337]Voting Green or Libertarian is a vote to make a point, not get someone elected. There are elections where I'd rather make a point than see the person I'm supporting get elected; this isn't one of them. If I were ambivalent between the two major party candidates, I'd think about voting Libertarian. I'm not, though, so I'm voting Obama.

Some reasons, briefly, that I'm supporting Obama:

1. Restoring our stature in the world.
2. Putting an end to Bush's economic policies.
3. The next president is going to have the opportunity to appoint at least one more justice -- Stevens is 88 years old -- and there are 3 justices (Ginsberg, Scalia, and Kennedy) that are 72 or more and could reasonably come off of the bench for any of a host of different reasons. McCain has said that his ideal justice would be someone in the mold of Antonin Scalia, which ought to disqualify someone from being president IMO.
4. Much more realistic, broad-based plan for developing energy independence.
5. Intelligent use of the military.
6. Increased transparency

There's more, but that's a pretty good start.

Oh, and I'm ready to have a president I can be proud of again, that promotes a positive, unifying message rather than one that is inherently negative. For about the last 6 years, most of my political thoughts have been fueled by anger, disillusionment, and hopelessness.[U] Obama supporters are often ridiculed for being drawn to his message of hope and change, but if that message gets people involved in the process and excited about being Americans, I don't see how that can be anything but a postive step in the right direction.[/U]

Feel free to throw any specific questions my way, via pm or otherwise -- I've got a pretty good handle on his platform...[/QUOTE]

Re: Undecided voter...who the hell should I vote for?

Kamal, does other side affect your situation at all?

Re: Undecided voter...who the hell should I vote for?

[QUOTE=Steve Graham;669786]Kamal, does other side affect your situation at all?[/QUOTE]

not sure what you mean...... "other side" ?

Re: Undecided voter...who the hell should I vote for?

shit, sorry, i mean either side

Re: Undecided voter...who the hell should I vote for?

in terms of getting my residency quicker? I haven't heard either side's arguments / plans to make this process any simpler / easier for those of us who have come come here legally and doing everything by the book.

but from a future standpoint and since I do plan to settle in the states, I do want to see our country get better in all respects and seeing what bush has done to our nation, I am looking forward for someone who sure in hell looks like he will make a heck of a difference and get us out of this stinking mess.

Re: Undecided voter...who the hell should I vote for?

yeah, i was wondering from a residency standpoint

Re: Undecided voter...who the hell should I vote for?

naa mate, unfortunately that is the least of everyone else's worries :( by the look of things, I will be rotting in the cue for the next 2 - 3 years ...... and that is an optimistic turn out

Re: Undecided voter...who the hell should I vote for?

[B]provided it happens in a rational and thoughtful manner[/B]

which, doesn't happen for the most part. If there were clear evidence of this, I'd probably agree. However, I have no evidence of this whatsoever.