[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4wQfQtpDAc[/youtube]

(jacked the title from Sullivan).

I wrote a lengthy post on this, but I'm going to save it for after discussion begins.

I do want to make a cheap shot and say, what the HELL does this man see in her? Don't answer that.....

edit: i'll at least disclose the content of my lengthy post: ignoring objective reality for a reality self-created, and further, blinding leaving such major decisions on matters of faith not in onesself, but in someone one has not yet met, are the two core ingredients for the devolution into totalitarianism. That is to say, leaving decisive moments in time to faith and not action, and not wanting to face the facts as they stand.

2nd edit: here's the full version; pretty intersting. [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CatsNlhh4fs[/youtube]

Re: Christianism Personified

so I guess my question is this: how long until Christian suicide bombers.

Re: Christianism Personified

i cant wait for em. give the middle east a taste of thier own medicine.

/sarcasm

Re: Christianism Personified

seriously, c'mon Christians! it's time to show your true face and start blowing shit up. show the world how different you are from those muslims.

Re: Christianism Personified

;imagine if we got into it in jerusalem and bethlehem. we have as much a claim there as any...

and our bombs are bigger.

Re: Christianism Personified

^ you won't find them; it won't happen. But I see what you're getting at, and I disagree: not because you're wrong, but that it's a straw man to what will likely happen.

The easy response (no offense) is to bring up "oh well, christians aren't suicide bombing are they?", or something similar; but that's not the point.

Here's a hypothetical I asked, (and interestingly, have not recieved a respond to) on another message board.

" Rhetorical question: if, hypothetically, muslims were not violent people at all, but they passed laws that follow thier strict codes, and further, that such strict adherence is required, and, that deviation from these laws would result in harsh pursuit and punishment of such described perpetrators...

...would it still be muslims who are evil for passing such laws because they have the numbers and mindset to do so, or would this make the government evil as a tool used to effect such an end? That is to ask, which is worse: a suicide bomb killing a few, or totalitarian laws that punish religious minorities? "

Re: Christianism Personified

lmao @ the idiocy of this thread

christians do bomb things. we just dont kill ourselves. abortion clinic bombings come to mind.

Re: Christianism Personified

inquisition ftw

[IMG]http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/d/d5/Spanish_inquisition_jewz-small-.jpg[/IMG]

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of course, it is without recognition that sightless and shosh don't understand the point here.

Re: Christianism Personified

no, i get it,

1. every religion, even buddism, has ultra fanatics, some who resort to violence.
2. the two people are in said group.

every race, religion, creedo, whatever has stupidity running rampant.

Re: Christianism Personified

uh no.

Re: Christianism Personified

LOL this is the video I was telling you about that they played on The Young Turks, Toasty. I swear, I am simply fascinated by people like this!!

Re: Christianism Personified

well, let's just throw this into the mix.

[URL]http://www.injesus.com/index.php?module=message&task=view&MID=CB007FA2&GroupID=2A004N9G&label=&paging=all[/URL]

[B][QUOTE][B]Block African witchcraft curses against McCain and Palin NOW![/B] Jim Bramlett [I]Sep 28 2008 04:12PM[/I]

Dear friends:

[B]THIS IS EXTREMELY SERIOUS.

[/B]Minutes ago I spoke with friend Dr. Norman G. Marvin, M.D. and he is so concerned at what he has learned about Barack Obama's family in Kenya that he is calling a special prayer meeting in his home to pray against the witchcraft curses attempted by them against John McCain and Sarah Palin.

Dr. Marvin sent me the below e-mail from Flo Ellers. Flo is credentialed with the International Fellowship of Ministries which is based in Washington State. She is also a member of EndTime Handmaidens and Servants of Jasper, Arkansas.

[B]IF YOU KNOW HOW TO DO SPIRITUAL WARFARE, PLEASE PRAY TODAY AND CONTINUALLY THAT ALL SUCH CURSES BE BROKEN AND SATAN'S PLAN FOR AMERICA BE DEFEATED, IN JESUS' NAME. PRAY AND COVER MCCAIN AND PALIN WITH THE BLOOD OF CHRIST. IF YOU DO NOT KNOW HOW TO DO SPIRITUAL WARFARE, IT IS TIME YOU LEARN!!!

[/B]Jim

From Flo Ellers. Excerpt. (Emphasis supplied in bold and underlines.)

Two days ago, I listened to a 9-6-08 message by Bree Keyton, a young woman evangelist who had just traveled to Kenya and visited Obama's home village and what she found out about his relations with his tribal people was chilling. And his "cousin" Odinga was dreadful. [B][U]She said the witches, warlocks and those involved in satanism and the occult get up daily at 3 a.m. to release curses against McCain and Palin so B. Hussein Obama is elected[/U][/B].

Bree Keyton told the tribal "Christians" you are NOT Christian if you practice "tribalism" where they do voodoo to conjure up a goddess spirit or a "genie" and then come to church on Sunday to worship Jesus! What she discovered there is apparent in most churches around the world; namely, mixture in the church. Some renounced their devilish practices of blood covenant by killing sheep, goats, humans to be inducted into the tribe or to get a wife or to get revenge.

She said the current president of Kenya is a Christian. However, Obama's cousin Odinga ran aganist him and said he rigged the election and stirred up the masses to rape woman and boys, kill and burn and torture Christians, etc. until Obama contacted Condeleeza Rice and she granted Obama the right to contact Odinga and other ruling elders and he "convinced" them to stop terrorizing the Christians. Bree Keyton said the current Christian President was forced by our government (!) to "create" an office for Odinga (to make "peace") so he was made the Prime Minister (!) to make peace between the Christians and Odinga's Muslim religion!

Bree Keyton went and visited Obama's tribal people and she found out Obama is 75% Arab and his family are Muslims. Odinga is strill trying to become the President of Kenya. If he does, he will make a law forbidding all public preaching and institute Sharia Law. Bree K. said Odinga has made a pact with satan.

[B][U]Bree K. also said when Obama visited his tribe in '06 and as late as Jan. '08 he went to every elder's home which has a "shrine" inside to worship the genie and asked for their blessing. She was told Obama and Odinga were both "destined" before they were born to be president/leader of their nation. They say "he is the chosen one". She said Obama's grandmother sacrificed a black and a white chicken to the "goddess of the river" so both whites and blacks will vote for Obama. All Islam loves and worships Obama. [/U][/B]The world is mesmerized by him. Oprah's 200 million followers are out to elect Obama. Also, Dick Morris of Fox News was sent to Kenya to help Odinga run his campaign! I find that unbelievable.

The occultists are "weaving lazy 8's around McCain's mind to make him look confused and like an idiot". Bree K. said we need to break these curses off of him that are being sent from Kenya.

I read a portion of "Obama Nation" book and looked at several websites and found most of this information to be true, all except the curses part, of course....

End of excerpt.[/QUOTE][/B]

unfuckingbelievable.

Re: Christianism Personified

:shock::shock::shock::shock::shock::shock::shock:

Re: Christianism Personified

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTf6NK0wsiA[/YOUTUBE]

i think this is quite fitting, too. as a response, that is.

Re: Christianism Personified

[QUOTE=88Mariner;665474]if, hypothetically, muslims were not violent people at all, but they passed laws that follow thier strict codes, and further, that such strict adherence is required, and, that deviation from these laws would result in harsh pursuit and punishment of such described perpetrators...

...would it still be muslims who are evil for passing such laws because they have the numbers and mindset to do so, or would this make the government evil as a tool used to effect such an end? That is to ask, which is worse: a suicide bomb killing a few, or totalitarian laws that punish religious minorities? "[/QUOTE]

I don't like to use "evil"...it's not a specific term. It could mean anything. It presumes some sort of objectivity. Since we are comparing two religions, our own arguments can't have any judgments that appeal to any type of god, which is the only source of such objectivity.

In order for this to bring and weight to bear on the radical Christian/Islamic parallel argument we're having here, we have to assume that there is a significant percentage of free thinkers in this hypothetical society whose freedoms are eliminated or severely threatened by the religious law.

To answer the first part of your question, I think it's a bit of a chicken/egg scenario. The religious majority establishes a religious government which in turn reinforces the religious majority. Those who lie at the outside of this cycle, for whatever reason, are going to feel that the government is evil, yes. But, given that might makes right, there's no true right or wrong here; just a power struggle. It is up to the minority to affect change by labeling the religious government "evil" in order to control it.

The suicide bombing, on the other hand, is a reaction to inter-religious and inter-cultural friction (to put it mildly). So I'm not sure what type of comparison you're trying to make.

I think that Christians are very close to becoming like their Islamic cousins, in that their extreme irrationality, paranoia, and devotion will soon lead them to violence. We've got to remember that terrorism is not an Islamic problem, it is not even a religious problem. It is an economic problem. And we have seriously remote places in this wide country of ours where this type of extremism is becoming more and more common.

Re: Christianism Personified

I just want to smash that fat fucking women's face in!!! A pretty perfect example of why I am an atheist!! :evil:

Re: Christianism Personified

news flash to you guys... crazy wackjob hicks are not a new phenomenon. They've always been out there, they always will be out there. It's a fact of life. Don't try to extrapolate large-scale trends on the basis of a small sample size of inbreds.

Re: Christianism Personified

wow. what an incredibly thoughtful answer. I would rep you but i keep getting a prompt that says I can't give out any more just yet.

I'm interested on how terrorism is an economic problem, not that I disagree with you, but I was hoping to find out more what you think on that.

Also, I guess to clarify my own post, I'm not really suggesting that christianity is a terroristic threat, at least not in modern times. However, when government enforces its laws, they do so using physical force; if laws are created to push religious doctrinal adherence by threat of physical force against minority factions, does this necessarly mean that, even though christians are generally unarmed non-suicide-bombing people, are they nonetheless culpable in the use of force (though they themselves do not use force). ...

Re: Christianism Personified

DIDI, to add to Miroslav's comments, don't you have personal, affirmative reasons as to why you're an atheist? rather than pointing at particular behaviour and saying, "that's why i'm not that"? No need to comment, just a thought.

Miro: not extrapolating, but I think reasonable people like yourself tend to underestimate the voting power of this block; anecdotally, why else would Sarah Palin have been chosen but for the necessity of gathering in fundamentalist voters which, as I think you agree, has put this country at great risk?

Re: Christianism Personified

^^ win. nice one miro.

/ broad thoughts

i put no stock in religion tho, they are great tools yes, but not the answer imo. i think religions and politics will not solve the problems of the world ultimately, they are too attached to categorization, names and forms -- all of which are a limitation don't you think? in terms of knowing and bettering our selves.

imo. all 'evil' is, is just relative imperfection and lag, just like 'good' is just relative perfection and acceleration. there is no such thing as absolute perfection. cheers to divinity and endless infinitude. ignorance and selfishness are the root of retardation. all religion is, is but the expressions of the inner truths.

christianity and islam have some serious changes ahead of them forreal.

Re: Christianism Personified

[quote=Miroslav;665741]news flash to you guys... crazy wackjob hicks are not a new phenomenon. They've always been out there, they always will be out there. It's a fact of life. Don't try to extrapolate large-scale trends on the basis of a small sample size of inbreds.[/quote] I'm not trying to extrapolate , but still want to smash her face in ! :lol:

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^ right, yeah. I don't mean to use evil in its literal sense, I just didn't know what else to put instead. I think there is very little evil in the world, but there is a significant amount of backwardsness.

Re: Christianism Personified

Hahahaha to quote the late George Carlin - "Can you imagine actually having to FUCK this woman???"

Re: Christianism Personified

[QUOTE=Miroslav;665741]news flash to you guys... crazy wackjob hicks are not a new phenomenon. They've always been out there, they always will be out there. It's a fact of life. Don't try to extrapolate large-scale trends on the basis of a small sample size of inbreds.[/QUOTE]

The price of liberty is vigilance. We need to continually expose these religious extremists and condemn them. Much like once you have cancer, you have to keep going back to the doctor to get it checked, forever.

[QUOTE=88Mariner;665742]wow. what an incredibly thoughtful answer. I would rep you but i keep getting a prompt that says I can't give out any more just yet.

I'm interested on how terrorism is an economic problem, not that I disagree with you, but I was hoping to find out more what you think on that. [/QUOTE]

The argument here is, basically people who consider themselves well off do not blow things up. Obviously it's more complicated than that, but that's the idea.

People who have jobs have something to do something other than sit around and blame the US for their plight. If people have money, they are less likely to resort to criminal or extreme activities. They are able to support their families. Deep down people want peace, but peace is essentially impossible without prosperity (or at least the opportunity for prosperity).

Now, some might say, wait, some terrorists are educated and well off (i.e., Bin Laden). However, he wouldn't be able to develop support for his scheme (indeed, wouldn't be motivated to have started it in the first place) if there weren't economic problems in Saudi Arabia and throughout the Middle East.

The creation of Al Qaeda was fueled by, specifically, the presence of American troops in Saudi Arabia after Gulf War I, and more generally, the disparity in wealth and reinforcement of the Saudi regime caused by the oil industry. Therefore, one could even say it's even the [I]US's[/I] economy that led to 9/11. Again, it's more complicated than that, but that pretty much sums it up.

[QUOTE]Also, I guess to clarify my own post, I'm not really suggesting that christianity is a terroristic threat, at least not in modern times. However, when government enforces its laws, they do so using physical force; if laws are created to push religious doctrinal adherence by threat of physical force against minority factions, does this necessarly mean that, even though christians are generally unarmed non-suicide-bombing people, are they nonetheless culpable in the use of force (though they themselves do not use force). ...[/QUOTE]

I'll have to get back to you on this one.

Re: Christianism Personified

[quote=DIDI;665740]I just want to smash that fat fucking women's face in!!! A pretty perfect example of why I am an atheist!! :evil:[/quote]

there actually is no such thing as athiesm, simply because you do believe in a certain idea.(no god) agnostic is what ya are.(choose to ignore religion)

Re: Christianism Personified

^^^^No wonder you have an ulcer you will fight anything :lol:

Nup atheist :) The dictionary says " the theory or belief that God does not exist". and that's definitely me :lol:

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^do you often define yourself on what you don't believe in?

are you also an a-fairyist? An a-easterbunny? I think that's what he's trying to say:

it starts off the proposition that God does exist, without proving it.

Re: Christianism Personified

[quote=DIDI;666232]The dictionary says " the theory or [B]belief [/B]that God does not exist". and that's definitely me :lol:[/quote] She believes in Christianity; you believe in atheism. At the end of the day, it's still a belief you can't prove - i.e., it requires some degree of faith on your part. Atheists and theists have more in common than one might initially think..

I'd also say: let's be careful about treating this woman as a good proxy by which to condemn all religious people...lest we ironically become as bad as those that we criticize. ;)

[quote=88Mariner;665743]Miro: not extrapolating, but I think reasonable people like yourself tend to underestimate the voting power of this block; anecdotally, why else would Sarah Palin have been chosen but for the necessity of gathering in fundamentalist voters which, as I think you agree, has put this country at great risk?[/quote] You raise a good point...no denying that it is distressing that people like this have a hand in our policy. And yes, I'd agree that they have done a fair amount of damage. As I mentioned in some other thread recently (can't even remember which one): representative democracy is imperfect and it sucks - and this is case in point. The only problem is that every other system, when taken on the whole, arguably sucks just as much if not more. So I guess I try to walk some sort of a line between ignoring the craziest of these people when they're just marginally impactful vs. trying to stop them when they take things too far... Not sure that there will ever be any clean solution to this.

Re: Christianism Personified

^^^Which still makes me an atheist ! I am not trying to prove anything ! I'm not looking to any God to look after me ! :)

[QUOTE]Do you often define yourself on what you don't believe in?[/QUOTE]

In this case I certainly do, and if some one starts telling me it's the easter bunnies "will" that determines my life I might do there as well !! :lol: In the name of the Easter Bunny :lol: :lol: :lol: What a silly argument that was. :lol:

Some comedian has done a sketch on this somewhere :lol: :lol:

Well at least this has got me over my violent urges :lol:

Re: Christianism Personified

[quote=88mariner;666254]^do you often define yourself on what you don't believe in?

Are you also an a-fairyist? An a-easterbunny? I think that's what he's trying to say:

It starts off the proposition that god does exist, without proving it.[/quote]

rofl

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[quote=DIDI;666320]^^^

Some comedian has done a sketch on this somewhere :lol: :lol:

[/quote]

george carlin, which is the wording i used. agnostics ignore it, atheiets BELEIVE that they dont beleive. catch 22.

Re: Christianism Personified

^actually, i ganked it from a speech by Sam Harris.

Here:

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ok2oJgsGR6c[/YOUTUBE]

a very profound speech. this is the first of 2 parts.

Re: Christianism Personified

cliffnotes?

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listen to it. you're not doing anything better at the moment.

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[QUOTE=88Mariner;666254]^do you often define yourself on what you don't believe in?[/QUOTE]

there are several situations where this is the case. One can be a non-smoking, non-drinking, nonpartisan, asexual, deaf mute.

[QUOTE=Miroslav;666306]She believes in Christianity; you believe in atheism. At the end of the day, it's still a belief you can't prove - i.e., it requires some degree of faith on your part. Atheists and theists have more in common than one might initially think..[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=thesightless;666045]there actually is no such thing as athiesm, simply because you do believe in a certain idea.(no god) agnostic is what ya are.(choose to ignore religion)[/QUOTE]

no, atheism is believing that there is no god. so it certainly it exists, because there are people who do not believe in god. can't get any simpler than that.

it always groups that are the problem. people should be skeptical of ideological groups. hence when atheists come under attack as being similar to the religious, it's because they are beginning to treat their non-belief as something that they have in common. where in fact, it's [B]this type of behavior[/B] that makes religions inherently bad, and not the deism itself.

Re: Christianism Personified

lmao. it depends what you define as "god." it is more like, " i do not believe in a anthropomorphic conception of god" (?) or a endless, ethic/moral, hierarchical understanding etc. no i am not a atheist or agnostic. or religions, anymore.

imo. athiesism is the cousin of these lunnies :

Nihilist: We believe in nothing, Lebowski. Nothing. And tomorrow we come back and we cut off your chonson. The Dude: Excuse me? Nihilist: I said [shouting] Nihilist: We'll cut off your johnson! Nihilist #2: Just you think about that, Lebowski. Nihilist #3: Yeah, your wiggly penis, Lebowski. Nihilist #2: Yeah and maybe we stomp on it and squoosh it, Lebowski.

[IMG]http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/7148/nihilistsza8.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Christianism Personified

[QUOTE=88Mariner;666325]^actually, i ganked it from a speech by Sam Harris.

Here:

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ok2oJgsGR6c[/YOUTUBE]

a very profound speech. this is the first of 2 parts.[/QUOTE]

ok so I didn't see this video here and I'm glad he's arguing my point