just got home from the debate...........

mccain backers. -- he isnt bush i know that, most people dont. but comon. you shouldnt be allowed to the voting booth. i shouldnt have to say more.

obama backers - you should be ashamed of yourselves for calling this man hope. there will not be a more decisive person elected. he is completely full of shit. he will hurt america. not as much as mccain, but there is a difference between obama/mccain and a viable candidate. for those who call this man hope, change whatever. BULLSHIT. this man is a fraud. he is nothing more than a salesman of ideas with zero idea of how to implement and of it, and frankly, the US government as a whole cannot implement it. to see the amount of people thinking this man in Jesus Christ reincarnate... you've got to be fucking kidding me. for you to think that this man can be taken seriosuly, and that there isnt a better, more qualified person in the entire democratic party... please. as little bill O said "get in the car, and drive to france" ... edited in here :: anyone bother to notice obama trashed bush's spending bills, bills he voted for ?!?>!?! COMON. i really feel like luke wilson in idiocracy after tonight.

for the first time,[B][U] i am truly ashamed i am a citizen of this country[/U][/B]. the fact that the overall FUCKING STUPIDITY of my fellow citizens has presented us these two men, when clearly so many more qualified people exists... its disgusting. november 11th will be the darkest day in american history.

im done. i cant deal with this. i will play moderator of facts from here on out. the intellegent opinion and intelligent candidate, and hell, the intelligent american are so far gone, hubble couldnt find them.

for shame. on all of you.

Re: my last opinionated message after witnessing that debate first hand

Least surprising post ever. Be honest, you wrote that a week ago, amiright? :p

Re: my last opinionated message after witnessing that debate first hand

no, sentiment was there, but tonight's disgrace just hit me over the head. i figured they would at least try to get into factual evidence. all i heard were some pathetic attmpts to discredit barak by john and barak basically pitching religion to idiots.

again, i am ashamed i live here. no wonder all the scientists moved to europe. as if john kerry and george bush wasnt a signal, we went and did this.

when john went into the Ayers bit, half of me wanted to stand up and shout 'WE DONT GIVE A FUCK"

i feel as if obama was coached by an old school, door to door salesman. i was waiting for the tomy boy line about a bulls ass and trusting the butcher.

the american public. [IMG]http://smartmortgageadvice.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/head-up-ass.jpg[/IMG]

Re: my last opinionated message after witnessing that debate first hand

toasty, i give you all the credit in the world, you arent dumb, but 99.999999% of america is. i dont mean do direct this at you personally, you just accept the two party system too well. you know there are about 500 people who can better lead than these two. you just ignore the options beyond A&B..

i pray we get invaded. war. mass killing of american citizens.

Re: my last opinionated message after witnessing that debate first hand

why so serious?

Re: my last opinionated message after witnessing that debate first hand

[quote=thesightless;663352] you should stay home on november 11th. plain and simple.[/quote]

Well, I really don't care what anyone does on November 11th. I mean, shit, - go ahead and celebrate Armistice Day if you want, go to work, stay home, take a piss, whatever. [I][B]But on November 4th, get your ass to the polls and cast your vote.[/B] There are more people running than just Obama and McCain.[/I] Your Congressperson, maybe US Senator(s), state assembly person, maybe state senator, school board, city council, maybe judge(s), proposition(s), Constitutional Amendments, etc. The list goes on and on. Your local elections/issues are at least as important as the US President. [I][B] For Chrissake, don't be so myopic & look at the big picture. [/B][/I] :D

Re: my last opinionated message after witnessing that debate first hand

^^^ :bow down::bow down::bow down::bow down:

Re: my last opinionated message after witnessing that debate first hand

No one's been elected yet. Why don't you wait till they're in office to cast your judgment?...200 some odd years later and the United States is still standing, in which time I'm sure thousands upon thousands of people have cried doomsday. But hey, if we're all so dumb, just leave us be and go where you feel your IQ is much more appreciated. After all, you've been given the power of prophesizing.

Re: my last opinionated message after witnessing that debate first hand

[quote] when john went into the Ayers bit, half of me wanted to stand up and shout 'WE DONT GIVE A FUCK"[/quote]

should have done that. would have easily been the highlight...maybe even got you a few interviews ;)

Re: my last opinionated message after witnessing that debate first hand

Found your pic:

[IMG]http://www.schuby.net/images/Sexy%20Emo.jpg[/IMG]

:p

Lighten up dude. If our country has survived Bush (barely) it will easily survive an Obama administration (not sure about a McCain administration). I do wish you would've yelled "WE DON'T GIVE A FUCK" though, because honestly, who does about Bill fucking Ayers? That would've been epic.

Re: my last opinionated message after witnessing that debate first hand

no moar opinionated messages? is that like Bush Snrs no more new taxes?

Re: my last opinionated message after witnessing that debate first hand

[quote=FM;663400]should have done that. would have easily been the highlight...maybe even got you a few interviews ;)[/quote]

or at least we would have had a new youtube vid of someone screaming , dont tase me bro!

Re: my last opinionated message after witnessing that debate first hand

[quote=thesightless;663352]toasty, i give you all the credit in the world, you arent dumb, but 99.999999% of america is. i dont mean do direct this at you personally, you just accept the two party system too well. you know there are about 500 people who can better lead than these two. you just ignore the options beyond A&B..

i pray we get invaded. war. mass killing of american citizens.[/quote]

the 2-party system is what i do not understand. sure, there are many other parties but they dont get equal treatment. we're supposed to live in a democracy but when someone from another party comes along they are viewed as disruptive, nuts, or that they will just take votes away from one of the 2 parties. no wonder one is an elephant (takes huge shits) and the other one is an ass.

Re: my last opinionated message after witnessing that debate first hand

a two-party system works. but I think a three-party system is necessary. No more, no less. Look at canada, they've got several parties, all splitting many different ways, the winner represents a smaller sliver than even a two-party system.

Re: my last opinionated message after witnessing that debate first hand

[QUOTE=thesightless;663351]when john went into the Ayers bit, half of me wanted to stand up and shout 'WE DONT GIVE A FUCK"[/QUOTE]

yes you should of. i would of gladly spent a night in jail to do that.

Re: my last opinionated message after witnessing that debate first hand

I think we can all agree that a two party system is far from perfect, and there are very few people that line up exactly with either party from an ideological standpoint. Unfortunately, regardless of how much we would like to see multiple parties, it won't happen on a long-term basis, because for most politicians, the need to stay employed trumps all else.

Put another way, when a third party starts to gain mainstream acceptance, the two parties either change their platform to encourage members of the third party to join them, or the third party supplants one of the two incumbent parties. In politics, numbers are all that matters, and there is an incentive to bend your ideology to vote for someone who can win or to be the party that garners the most votes. Depending upon which force is stronger, one of those two things will inevitably happen.

For example, ideological libertarians have historically voted with the republican party. If the Libertarians were ever to start to really pull a lot of votes from the GOP, you can bet that either the GOP platform would change (back) to reflect a more libertarian point of view, or the Libertarian party would suck up the republicans and the Grand Ol' Party would fade away. Neither party would let them split their vote and get their asses handed to them over an extended period of time.

The system is effectively rigged in favor of having two dominant parties. There's nothing to prevent other parties from forming in the technical sense, but there's not a lot of incentive to have more than two when it comes time to winning elections -- if your party is in the clear minority, you find a way to compete, and that usually means taking steps to attract the members of the other minority party that is also getting its ass kicked.

Re: my last opinionated message after witnessing that debate first hand

[IMG]http://www.independent.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00061/Wednesday_-_US_61473_61496t.jpg[/IMG]

Re: my last opinionated message after witnessing that debate first hand

[quote=thesightless;663336] im done. i cant deal with this. i will play moderator of facts from here on out. the intellegent opinion and intelligent candidate, and hell, the intelligent american are so far gone, hubble couldnt find them.

for shame. on all of you.[/quote] O-BA-MA! O-BA-MA!

Sightless, why are you so opposed to Hope and Change??

:p

Re: my last opinionated message after witnessing that debate first hand

^^^ Stirrer :lol: :lol: :lol:

Re: my last opinionated message after witnessing that debate first hand

[quote=shosh;663484]the 2-party system is what i do not understand. sure, there are many other parties but they dont get equal treatment. we're supposed to live in a democracy but when someone from another party comes along they are viewed as disruptive, nuts, or that they will just take votes away from one of the 2 parties. no wonder one is an elephant (takes huge shits) and the other one is an ass.[/quote]

We're supposed to live in a republic. Democracy is just the result of that. But this isn't about party, this is about power. This is a dog eat dog world. You wanna make a difference in the world? you obtain power. Bertrand Russell exposed this shit in his book 'Power'. It is exactly like energy, neither created or destroyed, only transferred. Frankly, I would one day like to achieve that power but not for my own self-gratification, but for the simple fact that I ate all the dogs and that I obtained an enormous amount of this 'monopoly' money. Then again, I think we should all be conspiracy theorists since it seems the most powerful people happen to come out of Wharton's school of business at UPenn.

Re: my last opinionated message after witnessing that debate first hand

[URL]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/joe-isnt-a-licensed-plumber--and-thats-not-his-name-964542.html[/URL]

joe the plumber - not all he seems perhaps

Re: my last opinionated message after witnessing that debate first hand

[quote=bobjuice;663904][URL]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/joe-isnt-a-licensed-plumber--and-thats-not-his-name-964542.html[/URL]

joe the plumber - not all he seems perhaps[/quote]

the guy is irrelevant. i could give a fuck about the guy. the question he asked and the answer obama gave are what is relevant. that doesnt change the fact that obama is a fuckin socialist! redistribution of wealth? ffs

Re: my last opinionated message after witnessing that debate first hand

[quote=shosh;663971]the guy is irrelevant. i could give a fuck about the guy. the question he asked and the answer obama gave are what is relevant. that doesnt change the fact that obama is a fuckin socialist! redistribution of wealth? ffs[/quote]

Yeah, I guess I prefer redistributing our wealth to Iraq. Screw our infrastructure. We should be in Iraq - building schools, sewage treatment facilities, electrical grid infrastructure, fixing dams on the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers, and standing between three ethnic groups that don't want to work together, not to mention bribing Sunni tribal leaders so they refrain from killing Shiites. All the money invested there still probably gets a better return than it will invested in our markets or in US jobs on US soil improving American lives. Yeah, lets fight Obama and his socialist agenda. It's certainly worse than what we're doing now.

Re: my last opinionated message after witnessing that debate first hand

[IMG]http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/0/02/America_reading_is_for_faggots.jpg[/IMG]

to quote the great stan lee. nuff said,. you are all beyond repair. obama, a fucking moron(dont debate this).. mccain(hitler pt2)... ur all idiots. all of you. think about it. as if kerry VS bush wasnt enough

Re: my last opinionated message after witnessing that debate first hand

[quote=shosh;663971]the guy is irrelevant. i could give a fuck about the guy. the question he asked and the answer obama gave are what is relevant. that doesnt change the fact that obama is a fuckin socialist! redistribution of wealth? ffs[/quote]

the guy is relevant.

this is one of mccain/palin's last hail mary before election and they are treating it like a huge deal.. if "joe" really is not a plumber, is in no position to take over his bosses business, then mccain's constant support of this guy goes down the drain.

if mccain would get off this negativity kick and actually talk facts and his plans instead of hate mongering and negative campaigning, he would be in a much better position for the white house, i feel.

Re: my last opinionated message after witnessing that debate first hand

[quote=CactusBeats;664026]Yeah, I guess I prefer redistributing our wealth to Iraq. Screw our infrastructure. We should be in Iraq - building schools, sewage treatment facilities, electrical grid infrastructure, fixing dams on the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers, and standing between three ethnic groups that don't want to work together, not to mention bribing Sunni tribal leaders so they refrain from killing Shiites. All the money invested there still probably gets a better return than it will invested in our markets or in US jobs on US soil improving American lives. Yeah, lets fight Obama and his socialist agenda. It's certainly worse than what we're doing now.[/quote] Thank you. Well said.

The fact is that there is always "redistribution of wealth" within society, even under Republicans. And I just haven't liked what I've seen these past eight years.

Re: my last opinionated message after witnessing that debate first hand

[quote=ddr;664347]the guy is relevant.

this is one of mccain/palin's last hail mary before election and they are treating it like a huge deal.. if "joe" really is not a plumber, is in no position to take over his bosses business, then mccain's constant support of this guy goes down the drain.

if mccain would get off this negativity kick and actually talk facts and his plans instead of hate mongering and negative campaigning, he would be in a much better position for the white house, i feel.[/quote]

how is the guy relevant? just because he happened to be at the right place at the right time and asked the right question? just because all the other libefuckinrals who make over 250K want to drift towards socialism and wouldnt ask that kind of a question... gtfo and move to cuba/china/n.korea/etc

[quote=Miroslav;664404]Thank you. Well said.

The fact is that there is always "redistribution of wealth" within society, even under Republicans. And I just haven't liked what I've seen these past eight years.[/quote]

not like what obama wants to do it and he proclaims in shamelessly... fuckin fuck

Re: my last opinionated message after witnessing that debate first hand

sosh, conservatives want socialism too. get it through your head. redistribution of wealth is exactly what these 'conservatives' want. its [I]where[/I] they send it to that's the difference. which means, absolutely no different, in principle.

Re: my last opinionated message after witnessing that debate first hand

[quote=thesightless;663352]

i pray we get invaded. war. mass killing of american citizens.[/quote]

:what

That's like suicide as a solution for depression. Weak.

Re: my last opinionated message after witnessing that debate first hand

That's like suicide as a solution for depression. Weak.[/quote]

chemo is the only viable cure for cancer(american stupidity) that we have right now.

Re: my last opinionated message after witnessing that debate first hand

[quote=shosh;664436]just because all the other libefuckinrals who make over 250K want to drift towards socialism and wouldnt ask that kind of a question... gtfo and move to cuba/china/n.korea/etc[/quote] If Obama wants to turn this place into a North Korea, then why are Colin Powell and Warren Buffet - arguably one of the best utilizers of the competitive markets in the world - supporting him?

You know, it IS actually possible to have a dialogue in this country about defining and funding basic social needs without turning this place into a Communist country. It would be nice if the people on the right could at least substantively join the dialogue - whether they agree or disagree - instead of shutting their brains off at the mention of the scary word "socialism".

There are checks and balances and separations of powers in our system of government. Obama is not going to turn us into Cuba in four years. Ultimately, if the people don't like what he's doing, they can vote his ass out in four years and vote in your buddies to take us back to the extreme right.

Again, there is always "redistribution of wealth" going on. That's why we pay taxes. Your right-wing buddies have redistributed wealth not just from our pockets, but [I]from our childrens' childrens' pockets[/I] on a scale not seen since the 1940s - look at the size of our deficit. Paying for those wars and for shoring up the busted economy (after another either years of sitting back and letting Wall Street become the Wild West) doesn't come for free.

[quote][B]"Taxes are always a redistribution of money. Most of the taxes that are redistributed go back to those who pay them -- in roads and airports and hospitals and schools. And taxes are necessary for the common good, and there's nothing wrong with examining what our tax structure is or who should be paying more, who should be paying less. For us to say that makes you a socialist, I think, is an unfortunate characterization that isn't accurate."[/B]

[B] -- Colin Powell, former Republican Secretary of State and US Army General[/B] [/quote]

Re: my last opinionated message after witnessing that debate first hand

^ you forgot probably a BIGGER recommendation of Obama's foreign policy.

If you guessed Richard Lugar, you'd be correct.

Re: my last opinionated message after witnessing that debate first hand

[QUOTE=88Mariner;665073]^ you forgot probably a BIGGER recommendation of Obama's foreign policy.

If you guessed Richard Lugar, you'd be correct.[/QUOTE]

did lugar endorse Obama? I knew they were friends and had worked on legislation before, but that's still pretty significant...

Re: my last opinionated message after witnessing that debate first hand

not directly.

[QUOTE] [INDENT]"Clearly, there is truth in the positions of both Senator McCain and Senator Obama. As Senator McCain suggests, there are times when diplomatic approaches to rogue regimes have little efficacy. No President should undertake discussions for the sake of appearances, and the President should be mindful of the legitimacy such talks might confer on particular leaders. But as Senator Obama has argued, isolating regimes, though sometimes necessary, rarely leads to a resolution of contentious issues. He correctly cautions against the implication that hostile nations must be dealt with almost exclusively through isolation or military force. In some cases, refusing to talk can even be dangerous. [/INDENT][INDENT]Negotiations on some level are particularly necessary in circumstances where the nations in question are prone to miscalculation or misinterpretation of U.S. intentions. For example, I have advocated much more regular contact between the United States and the governments surrounding Iraq, including Iran and Syria, primarily because greater transparency is inherently useful in dealing with regional issues stemming from the Iraq war, including refugee flows, border security, and humanitarian efforts. North Korea offers another example where talks have had inherent value. This is because North Korean assumptions and analysis about the United States and much of the outside world are so frequently distorted and their tendency toward dangerous miscalculation is so pronounced, that efforts to provide the government with a less insular picture of our intentions are essential."[/QUOTE]

[URL]http://lugar.senate.gov/press/record.cfm?id=304306[/URL]

like i said, not directly, but hmmm [/INDENT]

Re: my last opinionated message after witnessing that debate first hand

^^that lugar's a smart guy. Very realistic and pragmatic view on foreign relations, IMO...

Re: my last opinionated message after witnessing that debate first hand

i see he and biden working together in the future.

maybe lee hamilton will hop on board, too.

Re: my last opinionated message after witnessing that debate first hand

[quote=88Mariner;665073]^ you forgot probably a BIGGER recommendation of Obama's foreign policy.

If you guessed Richard Lugar, you'd be correct.[/quote]

That is indeed HUGE