Does Obama have any friends in life who are not: a. criminals b. racists c. terrorists

[QUOTE] The [URL="http://www.washingtontimes.com/themes/?Theme=Federal+Bureau+of+Investigation"]FBI[/URL] on Wednesday raided the county offices of a former Illinois state senator who is a poker-playing buddy of Democratic presidential candidate [URL="http://www.washingtontimes.com/themes/?Theme=Barack+Obama"]Sen. Barack Obama[/URL]. According to Chicago authorities, the FBI visited the offices in Joliet, Ill., of Will County executive [URL="http://www.washingtontimes.com/themes/?Theme=Larry+D.+Walsh"]Larry Walsh[/URL], a longtime friend of Mr. Obama's, and his chief of staff Matt Ryan. Mr. Walsh, who served in the Illinois Senate from 1997 to 2005, was endorsed by Mr. Obama in his county executive election bid. With the support of some of Mr. Obama's U.S. Senate volunteers, he easily defeated incumbent Republican Joseph Mikan. Will County auditor Steve Weber confirmed that his office had been asked by the FBI to assist in an investigation, but he did not elaborate on the specifics. Two FBI agents out of Chicago reportedly spent more than an hour in the Will County offices on Wednesday morning. According to sources, the Walsh investigation may be tied to lobbying firm Smith Dawson and Andrews, which was hired in 2006 for $10,000 per month to help Will County acquire federal grants. The firm, which is registered with the U.S. Senate and House of Representatives, assists clients with communications and legislative strategies that better their public policy agendas, according to its Web site. Last month, Mr. Walsh announced that Will County was the recipient of a $750,000 federal government grant that would allow law enforcement and prosecutors to fight against domestic violence. One of the firm's partners, James P. Smith, contributed $2,000 to help Mr. Walsh's county executive election bid. A corn farmer from Joliet, Mr. Walsh has supported his friend's presidential bid, and campaigned for him in rural and farming areas of the state. They are seen hugging each other in photos before Mr. Obama's announcement that he was running for president. The two men became tight friends during their tenure in the Illinois Senate and bonded over games of poker. According to a report in Time magazine, Mr. Walsh lost to Mr. Obama once with what he thought was a winning hand, and then slammed down his cards and said: "Doggone it, Barack, if you were more liberal in your card-playing and more conservative in your politics, you and I would get along much better." Mr. Walsh denied any knowledge of any investigation. "I don't have a clue what you are talking about," Mr. Walsh said in reports published Thursday in the Chicago Sun-Times. [/QUOTE]

Re: this is not the man................................ i knew for 20 years

so the FBI raided the offices for what again? and 'longtime' because they were in the state senate together?

anyways add

d. muslims.

and

e. gays.

and

f. liberals.

Re: this is not the man................................ i knew for 20 years

[quote=88Mariner;657930]so the FBI raided the offices for what again? and 'longtime' because they were in the state senate together?

anyways add

d. muslims.

and

e. gays.

and

f. liberals.[/quote]

you fail at getting the point.

also read the article: "Mr. Walsh, who served in the Illinois Senate from 1997 to 2005, was endorsed by Mr. Obama in his county executive election bid. With the support of some of Mr. Obama's U.S. Senate volunteers, he easily defeated incumbent Republican Joseph Mikan." "A corn farmer from Joliet, Mr. Walsh has supported his friend's presidential bid, and campaigned for him in rural and farming areas of the state. They are seen hugging each other in photos before Mr. Obama's announcement that he was running for president. The two men became tight friends during their tenure in the Illinois Senate and bonded over games of poker."

regardless of what you think of his innocent relationships with all these people, has there ever been a candidate that has been linked with more shady people?

Re: this is not the man................................ i knew for 20 years

[quote=shosh;657949]you fail at getting the point.

also read the article: "Mr. Walsh, who served in the Illinois Senate from 1997 to 2005, was endorsed by Mr. Obama in his county executive election bid. With the support of some of Mr. Obama's U.S. Senate volunteers, he easily defeated incumbent Republican Joseph Mikan." "A corn farmer from Joliet, Mr. Walsh has supported his friend's presidential bid, and campaigned for him in rural and farming areas of the state. They are seen hugging each other in photos before Mr. Obama's announcement that he was running for president. The two men became tight friends during their tenure in the Illinois Senate and bonded over games of poker."

[B]regardless of what you think of his innocent relationships with all these people, has there ever been a candidate that has been linked with more shady people?[/B][/quote]

point out a politician that isnt shady

Re: this is not the man................................ i knew for 20 years

[quote=Steve Graham;657951]point out a politician that isnt shady[/quote]

yes they are all shady. my point was that i've never heard of a presidential candidate tied in with so bad people people

Re: this is not the man................................ i knew for 20 years

george h.w. bush was a spook for the CIA. This is petty compared to the people he's worked with.

Re: this is not the man................................ i knew for 20 years

[QUOTE=shosh;657958]yes they are all shady. my point was that i've never heard of a presidential candidate tied in with so bad people people[/QUOTE]

Well, you must not be paying very close attention, because normally people harp on shady things the [I]candidate [/I]has done, but all people are able to muster with Obama is that people he [I]knows [/I]have done shady things. Smacks of desperation, IMO.

By your standard, the entire GOP house ought to be under suspicion because of their association with Delay, and the GOP members of the senate ought to be under suspicion because of their association with Stevens.

Re: this is not the man................................ i knew for 20 years

[quote=toasty;657963]Well, you must not be paying very close attention, because normally people harp on shady things the [I]candidate [/I]has done, but all people are able to muster with Obama is that people he [I]knows [/I]have done shady things. Smacks of desperation, IMO.

By your standard, the entire GOP house ought to be under suspicion because of their association with Delay, and the GOP members of the senate ought to be under suspicion because of their association with Stevens.[/quote]

wow great you've named 2 guys?

still they are not as bad characters as the ones obama is fraternizing with.

Re: this is not the man................................ i knew for 20 years

[QUOTE=shosh;657967]wow great you've named 2 guys? [/QUOTE]

Well, if I had nothing but free time for the weekend, I could probably scratch the surface of listing the scandals that have plagued people in the GOP (and otherwise) that would be McCain's "associates" under your definition, but that's not the point. The point is that this "6 degrees of Barack Obama" game is absurd and unhelpful.

Re: this is not the man................................ i knew for 20 years

[quote=toasty;657971]Well, if I had nothing but free time for the weekend, I could probably scratch the surface of listing the scandals that have plagued people in the GOP (and otherwise) that would be McCain's "associates" under your definition, but that's not the point. The point is that this "6 degrees of Barack Obama" game is absurd and unhelpful.[/quote]

really? you could name such close friends of mccain or other candidates who have strong criminal past, are so racist, and also known terrorists (I would add also supporters of communism too)? It's not that there is just one guy or two, but this many?

I would pay for that!

Re: this is not the man................................ i knew for 20 years

[QUOTE=shosh;657978]really? you could name such close friends of mccain or other candidates who have strong criminal past, are so racist, and also known terrorists (I would add also supporters of communism too)? [B]It's not that there is just one guy or two, but this many[/B]?

[/QUOTE]

Good point. One or two is completely OK, but three or four? Yep, twice as many. Sweet mother of pearl. :lol:

Former co-chair of McCain's AZ campaign Rep. Rick Renzi (indicted on extortion, wire fraud, money laundering, etc.) springs immediately to mind, by the way.

The Bill Ayers thing is really pathetic, by the way. The guy admittedly has some pretty unsavory shit in his very distant past, but he is currently a professor at a major state University. I realize that folks in the current incarnation of the GOP view people in academia as the equivalent of terrorists, but the rest of us know that's silly. And don't give me this, "but he said we didn't do enough on 9/11" bullshit either, because we've already know that's incredibly misleading and paints an inaccurate picture of what he said and when he said it.

Re: this is not the man................................ i knew for 20 years

[quote=toasty;657994]Good point. One or two is completely OK, but three or four? Yep, twice as many. Sweet mother of pearl. :lol:

Former co-chair of McCain's AZ campaign Rep. Rick Renzi (indicted on extortion, wire fraud, money laundering, etc.) springs immediately to mind, by the way.

The Bill Ayers thing is really pathetic, by the way. The guy admittedly has some pretty unsavory shit in his very distant past, but he is currently a professor at a major state University. I realize that folks in the current incarnation of the GOP view people in academia as the equivalent of terrorists, but the rest of us know that's silly. And don't give me this, "but he said we didn't do enough on 9/11" bullshit either, because we've already know that's incredibly misleading and paints an inaccurate picture of what he said and when he said it.[/quote]

four? dude there are way more than that tied in with obama

ayers: that motherfucker should be in prison but is not because of a technicality. he should not be teaching at a university. just because he is, doesnt make him a better person. he also said this: "I’ve thought about this a lot. Being almost 60, it’s impossible to not have lots and lots of regrets about lots and lots of things, but the question of did we do something that was horrendous, awful? ... I don’t think so. I think what we did was to respond to a situation that was unconscionable."

Re: this is not the man................................ i knew for 20 years

whoa, now. Settle down, McCarthy. McCain's no angel. Keating 5/S&L scandal:

[url]http://www.slate.com/id/1004633/[/url]

McCain (understandably): "I hated the gooks. I will hate them as long as I live."

McCain's lobbyists have ties to "regimes accused of serious human rights violations":

[url]http://www.nysun.com/national/saudi-lobbyist-quits-mccain-campaign/76595/[/url]

Re: this is not the man................................ i knew for 20 years

[quote=shosh;657995]four? dude there are way more than that tied in with obama[/quote] Who? Drag 'em out. I'm an open minded person. If you can prove to me that Obama is a "crook" then I'll change my mind. Show me your facts.

Re: this is not the man................................ i knew for 20 years

wll being that every other dem politician who has been in deep shit, just by being of the same political party is asociated with obama, wouldnt that apply to mccain?

all of those republicans that have been involved in sex scandals are not friends of mccains, i mean, theyre all republicans, theyve must of met??

Bruce Barclay Matthey Elliot Vitto Fossella Robert Mckee Daniel Thompson

now, if you point out any politician in america they all are or have been asociated with someone shady in their past, now, that doesnt mean that just because you know a fucking racist, that makes you a racist, no my friend, life doesnt work that way.

Re: this is not the man................................ i knew for 20 years

[quote=Cj Tari;658005]wll being that every other dem politician who has been in deep shit, just by being of the same political party is asociated with obama, wouldnt that apply to mccain?

all of those republicans that have been involved in sex scandals are not friends of mccains, i mean, theyre all republicans, theyve must of met??

Bruce Barclay Matthey Elliot Vitto Fossella Robert Mckee Daniel Thompson

now, if you point out any politician in america they all are or have been asociated with someone shady in their past, now, that doesnt mean that just because you know a fucking racist, that makes you a racist, no my friend, life doesnt work that way.[/quote]

lol ok bro

Re: this is not the man................................ i knew for 20 years

[QUOTE=Cj Tari;658005] all of those republicans that have been involved in sex scandals are not friends of mccains, i mean, theyre all republicans, theyve must of met??

Bruce Barclay Matthey Elliot Vitto Fossella Robert Mckee Daniel Thompson[/QUOTE]

You forgot Bob Allen, McCain's Florida campaign co-chair who was convicted of solicitation of prostitution with a male prostitute.

Re: this is not the man................................ i knew for 20 years

[quote=shosh;658008]lol ok bro[/quote]

So are you giving up on your point here and saying that both Democrats and Republicans, like most Americans, know somebody who knows some bad people?

Re: this is not the man................................ i knew for 20 years

[QUOTE=sammwalk;658013]So are you giving up on your point here and saying that both Democrats and Republicans, like most Americans, know somebody who knows some bad people?[/QUOTE]

doubtful. I would bet you anything that shosh had never heard of Bill Ayers and had no idea that a former member of the Weather Underground was currently a professor at the University of Illinois Chicago before this election, but it's now the biggest deal in the world to him because he's tangentially related to the Democratic nominee. Makes no difference if you could play the same game with McCain -- not that we would, because it's just plain silly...

Re: this is not the man................................ i knew for 20 years

[quote=sammwalk;658013]So are you giving up on your point here and saying that both Democrats and Republicans, like most Americans, know somebody who knows some bad people?[/quote]

no i just decided to stop writing because of the blindness here. if you still dont know about obama, his ties, influences, etc and choose to think "who cares if he always hangs out with this guy, are in the same projects, are close friends" than im wasting time

[quote=toasty;658015]doubtful. I would bet you anything that shosh had never heard of Bill Ayers and had no idea that a former member of the Weather Underground was currently a professor at the University of Illinois Chicago before this election, but it's now the biggest deal in the world to him because he's tangentially related to the Democratic nominee. Makes no difference if you could play the same game with McCain -- not that we would, because it's just plain silly...[/quote]

then you would lose that bet. my wife's family is from just outside chicago so I've known about him for a very long time... and yes its a big deal that he hangs out with obama, he should be in jail. he was a terrorist ffs and feels no remorse?

Re: this is not the man................................ i knew for 20 years

[quote=toasty;658015]doubtful. I would bet you anything that shosh had never heard of Bill Ayers and had no idea that a former member of the Weather Underground was currently a professor at the University of Illinois Chicago before this election, but it's now the biggest deal in the world to him because he's tangentially related to the Democratic nominee. Makes no difference if you could play the same game with McCain -- not that we would, because it's just plain silly...[/quote]

Exactly. I don't go trying to dig up stuff on McCain, even though I'm sure it exists, because that's not what important. So this stuff on Obama's past just doesn't hit home.

I am being honest, though, that when I say I have an open mind about this stuff. Let's see some facts.

Re: this is not the man................................ i knew for 20 years

[quote=shosh;658016]no i just decided to stop writing because of the blindness here. if you still dont know about obama, his ties, influences, etc and choose to think "who cares if he always hangs out with this guy, are in the same projects, are close friends" than im wasting time[/quote]

Okay, so how can you then ignore the people that McCain is in bed with, as previously posted? I'm willing to concede, for the sake of argument, that Barry had some dirty dealings (though I don't believe it). But you can't be okay with one side's "criminal ties" and not okay with the other.

Re: this is not the man................................ i knew for 20 years

[quote=sammwalk;658019]Exactly. I don't go trying to dig up stuff on McCain, even though I'm sure it exists, because that's not what important. So this stuff on Obama's past just doesn't hit home.

I am being honest, though, that when I say I have an open mind about this stuff. Let's see some facts.[/quote]

give me a few to go through my bookmarks

Re: this is not the man................................ i knew for 20 years

shosh, you are hurting your own cause here. every politician has shady friends. yes, obama has some seriously shady people in that they were the actual acting parties in some bad stuff, but mccain's supporters are just as bad/even worse in that they were involved in plannign much larger bad events.

Re: this is not the man................................ i knew for 20 years

[quote=thesightless;659075]shosh, you are hurting your own cause here. every politician has shady friends. yes, obama has some seriously shady people in that they were the actual acting parties in some bad stuff, but mccain's supporters are just as bad/even worse in that they were involved in plannign much larger bad events.[/quote]

much larger bad events than a terrorist plot against your own country?

Re: this is not the man................................ i knew for 20 years

the ppl obama knows planned small scale bombings and violence. dick cheney planned for no less than 4 invasions.

Re: this is not the man................................ i knew for 20 years

[quote=toasty;658009]You forgot Bob Allen, McCain's Florida campaign co-chair who was convicted of solicitation of prostitution with a male prostitute.[/quote]

lmao, you just reminded me of something that was said by either bill mahr, dennis miller, or lewis black.

in the last 3 years, for all the scandals that democratic politicians had (drugs, fraud, theft, other), the republicans, at the federal level, and this is the party with the "morals" , have had no less than 28 politicians or advisors go down on either prostituion, gay sex, or child rape charges.

not that hte crimes are funny, but the high and mighty group is losing its own to exactly what it fights out in public

Re: this is not the man................................ i knew for 20 years

[quote=thesightless;659075]every politician has shady friends. yes, obama has some seriously shady people in that they were the actual acting parties in some bad stuff[/quote]

shosh, unfortunately we won't know the extent of the "shady" influence that brought the dear leader to power, until after the election... also (after he has conquered america), there will be so much "hope" and "change" taking place, there will be no need for investigations into illegal fund raising practices...

[URL]http://www.newsweek.com/id/162403[/URL]

"This summer, watchdog groups asked both campaigns to share more information about its small donors. The McCain campaign agreed; the Obama campaign did not." :roll::roll::roll::roll:

Re: this is not the man................................ i knew for 20 years

[QUOTE=k3n3;659298]shosh, unfortunately we won't know the extent of the "shady" influence that brought the dear leader to power, until after the election... also (after he has conquered america), there will be so much "hope" and "change" taking place, there will be no need for investigations into illegal fund raising practices...

[URL]http://www.newsweek.com/id/162403[/URL]

"This summer, watchdog groups asked both campaigns to share more information about its small donors. The McCain campaign agreed; the Obama campaign did not." :roll::roll::roll::roll:[/QUOTE]

Are you suggesting that Obama is skirting the $2300 limit by having donors write one big check, and then follow up with dozens and dozens of small, untraceable contributions? If so, you don't know a hell of a lot about the realities of political fundraising. The people that are maxing out their contributions aren't interested in dicking around with this, they'll just write a bigger check to the DNC.

As I recall, the Obama campaign opting not to do this was based primarily upon the administrative chore it would be to compile this information, which is a byproduct of having an overwhelming number of small donors. Maybe, from the standpoint of avoiding the [I]appearance [/I]of impropriety, he should have gone ahead and done it, but it doesn't necessarily follow that just because the GOP is raising questions about it, there must be something shady going on.

Re: this is not the man................................ i knew for 20 years

[quote=toasty;659678]Are you suggesting that Obama is skirting the $2300 limit by having donors write one big check, and then follow up with dozens and dozens of small, untraceable contributions? [/quote]

Toasty, uh, I thinks Newsweek was suggesting there was some shenanigans going on (or is that what "hope" and "change" looks like?)... did u happen to notice the little quote thingies and that little hyperlink thingumajig in my original post???

[URL="http://www.newsweek.com/id/162403"][COLOR=royalblue]http://www.newsweek.com/id/162403[/COLOR][/URL]

"This summer, watchdog groups asked both campaigns to share more information about its small donors. The McCain campaign agreed; the Obama campaign did not."

And just in case you're in the dark on the current FEC investigations into BO's fundraising practices, I used something called "google" to dig up additional infos...

[URL="http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&q=fec%20investigation&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wn"]http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&q=fec%20investigation&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wn[/URL]

Re: this is not the man................................ i knew for 20 years

^^ I grasp that, and I'm telling you I remember the event to which the Newsweek article refers and notwithstanding Newsweek's insinuation that there are "shenanigans" going on, I don't remember there being anything nefarious about it, nor was it even a big deal at the time (i.e., there was not a lot of pushback from the entity requesting the data when they declined to produce it). If it's what I'm thinking of, they are taking a non-event and trying to spin something out of it after the fact.

As someone who has done some fundraising myself, I can tell you that incomplete or inaccurate donor data can come with the territory, and when you're dealing with smaller amounts that don't have the more stringent documentation requirements, it's pretty common that you wouldn't find out that the info you have is imperfect until it's too late to do anything about it. With that said, though, I can tell you that of all the campaigns I've worked on, the Obama campaign is the most stringent about playing by the rules -- that's not to say that other campaigns run fast and loose with them, but they are hypersensitive to any suggestion that they've gamed the system or skirted the rules and tend to err on the side of being overly cautious -- the thought process is that they are raising money at such an absurd pace, it doesn't make sense to put the campaign on the defensive over something like fundraising.

Re: this is not the man................................ i knew for 20 years

[quote=toasty;659818]^^ I grasp that, and I'm telling you I remember the event to which the Newsweek article refers and notwithstanding Newsweek's insinuation that there are "shenanigans" going on, I don't remember there being anything nefarious about it, nor was it even a big deal at the time (i.e., there was not a lot of pushback from the entity requesting the data when they declined to produce it). If it's what I'm thinking of, they are taking a non-event and trying to spin something out of it after the fact.

As someone who has done some fundraising myself, I can tell you that incomplete or inaccurate donor data can come with the territory, and when you're dealing with smaller amounts that don't have the more stringent documentation requirements, it's pretty common that you wouldn't find out that the info you have is imperfect until it's too late to do anything about it. With that said, though, I can tell you that of all the campaigns I've worked on, the Obama campaign is the most stringent about playing by the rules -- that's not to say that other campaigns run fast and loose with them, but they are hypersensitive to any suggestion that they've gamed the system or skirted the rules and tend to err on the side of being overly cautious -- the thought process is that they are raising money at such an absurd pace, it doesn't make sense to put the campaign on the defensive over something like fundraising.[/quote]

toasty - off-topic: are you looking to get involved more seriously in politics? byh seriously i mean taking positions or running for offices, and so forth? (unless you are already and I'm not aware). not with the purpose of flaming, just curious

Re: this is not the man................................ i knew for 20 years

[QUOTE=shosh;659842]toasty - off-topic: are you looking to get involved more seriously in politics? byh seriously i mean taking positions or running for offices, and so forth? (unless you are already and I'm not aware). not with the purpose of flaming, just curious[/QUOTE]

Depends upon what you mean, but the answer is probably no. I was actually approached by the STL Dems to run for the MO house seat for my district this election, but I opted against it. Who knows, maybe at some point that sort of thing will seem more attractive, but for right now, the life of a politician doesn't really appeal to me.

Re: this is not the man................................ i knew for 20 years

[quote=toasty;659846]Depends upon what you mean, but the answer is probably no. I was actually approached by the STL Dems to run for the MO house seat for my district this election, but I opted against it. Who knows, maybe at some point that sort of thing will seem more attractive, but for right now, the life of a politician doesn't really appeal to me.[/quote]

thats pretty much it, just wondering if you were thinking about taking any positions within the party or running for an office.

if you do run for anything, make sure you get your [ms] account deleted :D

Re: this is not the man................................ i knew for 20 years

you're all dumb. how any of you actually back either of these people, i still cannot fathom, even after months of readin diatribes for and against both of em. and lesser of two evils isnt an excuse, there are a few other pppl who you can vote for. obama is as shady as they come, its just that HE SPEAKS LOUDLY AND FIRMLY. we know nothing about him, at least we know sumin about mccain, i dont like it, but at least i know about it.

Re: this is not the man................................ i knew for 20 years

[quote=thesightless;659875]you're all dumb. how any of you actually back either of these people, i still cannot fathom, even after months of readin diatribes for and against both of em. and lesser of two evils isnt an excuse, there are a few other pppl who you can vote for. obama is as shady as they come, its just that HE SPEAKS LOUDLY AND FIRMLY. we know nothing about him, at least we know sumin about mccain, i dont like it, but at least i know about it.[/quote]

I'm starting to agree... listening to both of the clowns during this debate, is making me mental... we're screwed...:(:(:(

Re: this is not the man................................ i knew for 20 years

these threads are getting old

Re: this is not the man................................ i knew for 20 years

when ayers bombed the pentagon, didn't he detonate the bomb when nobody was around, and as a result of the bombing, didn't bombing raids in north vietnam have to be ceased for a few days? as far as i'm concerned, that makes him a hero. much more so than mccain will ever be...

Re: this is not the man................................ i knew for 20 years

[quote=BabyMatty4Block;660279]when ayers bombed the pentagon, didn't he detonate the bomb when nobody was around, and as a result of the bombing, didn't bombing raids in north vietnam have to be ceased for a few days? as far as i'm concerned, that makes him a hero. much more so than mccain will ever be...[/quote]

seriously dude. that wasnt the only bombing he participated in. still, for you to claim that was a good thing and hes a hero is seriously fucked up.

Re: this is not the man................................ i knew for 20 years

but nobody got hurt, and he saved the lives of possibly thousands of vietnamese. even if he did hurt others in bombings (did he even?) he's a net saver of lives...