bummer the bailout was voted in. Sad to see we are so greedy and can not hold people accountable for their actions. Utter disappontment.

I am taking this as a loss ... I believe the house will approve what the Senate has.

Re: a sad day for America.

for those interested ... Here is the bill ... [URL]http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/01/news/pdf/index.htm[/URL]

Re: a sad day for America.

if the house republicans switch on this, there is going to be a slaughter.

Re: a sad day for America.

Yes, it will probably eventually pass. Top leadership has clearly shown that they will repackage and revote this issue for as long as it takes to get it through. I have mixed feelings on it...

Re: a sad day for America.

[quote=Miroslav;657249] I have mixed feelings on it...[/quote]

Same. It's a horrible package but the potential consequences of doing nothing are even more horrible. :what

Re: a sad day for America.

I disagree acting now has wasted a major bullet in your gun. Now you are standing there with an army coming at you and you have no more ammo..

Re: a sad day for America.

its amazing how the majority of people are completely ignoring the basic principles of macro economics when voicing thier opinions against this. i dont give medical advicxe because im not a doctor, so please, just stop. the opinions are based on nothing but false data being force fed.

hyperinflation will not happen as money isnt being given away the 700 will not be used, it will be less they gain back a dollar for dollar assest or interest bearing note.. if it didnt happen, the currency market would be dead and a massive depression would result.

it is quite neccessary whether you agree or not. again, its like living with testicular cancer becuase you dont want to lose a nut.

Re: a sad day for America.

[FONT=Helvetica][COLOR=silver]Defend this ... You want to allow a pool of money to those we do not make strong financial decisions. The same damn financial institutions that got us in this mess ... we are going to allow access to a pot of 700 BILLIONS USA DOLLARS. [/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica][COLOR=silver]Am I totally lacking common sense here? [/COLOR][/FONT]

Re: a sad day for America.

[quote=runningman;657304]I disagree acting now has wasted a major bullet in your gun. Now you are standing there with an army coming at you and you have no more ammo..[/quote] Problem is, if you don't act now...you probably won't have any bullet to fire because you'll be dead soon. Economic crises tend to grow exponentially by nature due to the interconnectedness of the different economic constituents and the feedback cycles that occur when these constituencies panic. What that means is once this thing escalates into a runaway train, your "bullet" is largely useless in stopping it...if for no other reason than the fact that the losses will be much greater at that time and $700B will not nearly cover it anymore. You want a $700 billion bailout or a $10 trillion bailout?

[quote=asdf_admin;657406][FONT=Helvetica][COLOR=silver]Defend this ... You want to allow a pool of money to those we do not make strong financial decisions. The same damn financial institutions that got us in this miss ... we are going to allow access to a pot of 700 BILLIONS USA DOLLARS. [/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica][COLOR=silver]Am I totally lacking common sense here? [/COLOR][/FONT][/quote] You're not lacking in common sense. Sucks, doesn't it? The same people who screwed us are ultimately the same people who hold the keys to our collective future. And now we're faced with the prospect of helping to prop them up. But that's unfortunately just the way it is...because you can't live without a banking system anymore in this age. Revenge sounds nice, but it won't help us now.

Re: a sad day for America.

Grumble. Grumble.

It totally sucks.

Re: a sad day for America.

asset conversion from cash to a note payable bearing interest above the COLA and inflation rate.. comon miro. you know this.

Re: a sad day for America.

sean (sightless thats your name right?)... tell me what you think about this:

why should the govt buy the bad debt at $1/$1 or 90c/$1? why shouldnt they buy them for market price, or maybe just a tad bit above? also why cant the companies sell them for a bigger loss?

Re: a sad day for America.

becasue the one dollar of debt you are buying is a one for one dollar of mortgage debt, even at 5.5% it will generate 2.30 per dollar. the whole thing is that the government is willing to accept this over a longer term than the traditional 30 year term.

hey morals are morals, but everyone is trying to shoot this down with facts and math that are dead wrong. notice how the overwheliming majority of financiers are for this, even if they ackowledge it is a neccessary evil. i.e the people, like me, who are schooled enough in finance and accounting, all seem to say the same thing... it sucks, but it has to be done.

as i said before, relentlessly, this is not a cash giveaway, it is a line of credit for hte banks to shore up their balance sheets to keep the worldwide currency alive. on top of it, the money that is actually "spent" and not "lent", is spent on assests that generate a large profit margin. the main issue of "underpreforming loans" is that the loans arent giving the return on a fixed term as most loans do. thats where the gov't, with the FHA, are buying the notes (bonds collateralized by bundled mortgages) and accepting the return on a longer term.

christ almighty, in the last week, i have given a masters course in the american and asian market fundamentals. its all publically availbale date and definintions, just go lo0ok it up from the proper sources, NOT cnn, not, msnbc, not the fucking news.

does anyone think its bullshit that the worlds top finance gurus are all sitting in washington and telling these people to do it. the senate and hosue dont comprise of anyone from the financial feilds, and the one fucking government official who is from the backround (mike bloomberg) just filed legal petitions in NYC tyo stay on for a third term to get NY through this...

i feel like luke wilson is idiocracy at this point. maybe its cuz im too engrained in the industry and know more about than anyone here, but comon already. as i said before, its like refusing to cut off a testicle because you are against it in principle and living with cancer. and dont for a minute think if teh world's markets collapse we wont be in a MAJOR world war within two months... think of it like that,... war and martial law, and more GWbush. wanna prevent that? i hope so. cuz a war on our domestic soil will lead to martial law.

honestly, i have met and or spoken to the majority of the older memebrs on this board, and love ya ll, only had an issue with one, and that's cuz poto walked in on me fucking her and i found it funny later.... but most of the people against this are artists, labor based careers(i.e. non finance,nonaccounting), etc. miroslav and i are the only ones who seem to do this for a living,... and im seeing a trend.... i do this daily for a living, and have been doing it for awhile now. its gotta be done. its real world time, not ideological time.

Re: a sad day for America.

dude im with you on this thing: i dont like it but its necessary. I understand and I know why and all that. What i didnt understand was why are we paying close to par for something that we can get for less? i wasnt saying we should by these at the bottom dollar prices but are we overpaying? i work in the finance industry too, albeit its the mortgage business so im not completely illiterate when it comes to this, but if i can pick up something for cheap im not going to pay more for it regardless of the return. if you dont feel like answering this, have another guinness, im going to get a glass of scotch. pm me your address and ill send you a bottle

EDIT: look at all my posts on the matter and although few i agreed with you and miro on the issue. i have not said much on the subject because you and mire covered it more than enough. fuck for all i care, if it helps the market pay double or triple the worth, i was just wondering the reasoning behind it and i asked you since you are the sight less

Re: a sad day for America.

the irony hit me tonight: the same people who are for spending hundreds of billions of dollars to fight unecessary and negligently-conducted wars are the same people who think that resolving this credit crisis is not important, particularly when it comes to 'taxpayer dollars'.

Why in HELL are people so much more interested in paying for war than they are for keeping our economy from going chernobyl? I will NEVER understand this. EVER.

Re: a sad day for America.

@ shosh/.

if you(gov't) pick it up fopr cheap, you are hurting yourself.

i.e. if you have X amount of employees, and YOU rely on thier ability to get to work (assuming you pay fair wages).. and they have a 02 cdorrola.. and it broke(but fixable at cheap value).. you are fucking yourself by only paying 2K for it, as they cant buy another car and get to work, but if you pay Kelly blue book on it, (4K) and drop 500 into the engine, the car is worth 7K (fair market value), and your employees can now afford a car for themselves and help you earn..

sound better?

i should have a fucking TV show. 29 and already planning the curriculem for a college.. damn im good.

Re: a sad day for America.

[quote=88Mariner;657583]the irony hit me tonight: the same people who are for spending hundreds of billions of dollars to fight unecessary and negligently-conducted wars are the same people who think that resolving this credit crisis is not important, particularly when it comes to 'taxpayer dollars'.

Why in HELL are people so much more interested in paying for war than they are for keeping our economy from going chernobyl? I will NEVER understand this. EVER.[/quote]

false negative me thinks.

Re: a sad day for America.

[quote=thesightless;657435]asset conversion from cash to a note payable bearing interest above the COLA and inflation rate.. comon miro. you know this.[/quote] none for me, thanks. Dr. pepper. Fries on the side. 8)

Re: a sad day for America.

you know what is a really sad day for America is when a report comes out that you lost 159,000 jobs last month and the stock market is up 150 points. I mean WTF?? Shady..

I guess you could expect 159,000 more foreclosures this month as well.