Part of me wonders is this is part of the "lowering of expectations" game, but here it is regardless:

[QUOTE]Capitol Hill sources are telling me that senior McCain people are more than concerned about Palin. The campaign has held a mock debate and a mock press conference; both are being described as "disastrous." One senior McCain aide was quoted as saying, "What are we going to do?" The McCain people want to move this first debate to some later, undetermined date, possibly never. People on the inside are saying the Alaska Governor is "clueless."[/QUOTE]

[url]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/26/report-mccain-aides-compl_n_129618.html[/url]

If the goal is to lower Palin's expectations, well, "Mission Accomplished" as they say in the GOP. As of right now, I'm expecting the VP debate to be a bloodletting. Joe Biden should commit the following phrase to memory, because I suspect he's going to need some variation of it a number of times:

"Well, I'm not sure how to respond to that, because it frankly doesn't make any sense at all..."

Re: "Disastrous"

oh! i cannot wait to see the VP debate

Re: "Disastrous"

[quote=tiddles;654593]oh! i cannot wait to see the VP debate[/quote]

i knew you were a sadist....but jaysus

Re: "Disastrous"

roflmao... not surprising at all.

Re: "Disastrous"

This is going to be awesome.

Gonna crack open a bottle of wine and laaaaaugh and laugh and laugh.

Re: "Disastrous"

[quote=Jenks;654616]This is going to be awesome.

Gonna crack open a bottle of wine and laaaaaugh and laugh and laugh.[/quote]

your social life is nonexistent if you are drinking wine and watching a debate on a friday eve. go spin somewhere. its the one thing you better than most people.;)

Re: "Disastrous"

Don't underestimate the Republican campaign machine to spin, twist, and wriggle out of this one. They're pressed up against a wall, and beasts do crazy things when they're desperate. I bet they'll find a way to somehow not do it. Like, not have the debate at all.

Re: "Disastrous"

[quote=thesightless;654618]your social life is nonexistent if you are drinking wine and watching a debate on a friday eve. go spin somewhere. its the one thing you better than most people.;)[/quote]

hell with that. Crack open the bottle and laugh.

Then go spin ;)

Re: "Disastrous"

[quote=FM;654650]hell with that. Crack open the bottle and laugh.

Then go spin ;)[/quote]

nothing wrong with stayin in on a friday night. I am. in my 14 x 17 foot door room.

Re: "Disastrous"

[quote=sammwalk;654626]Don't underestimate the Republican campaign machine to spin, twist, and wriggle out of this one. They're pressed up against a wall, and beasts do crazy things when they're desperate. I bet they'll find a way to somehow not do it. Like, not have the debate at all.[/quote]

If they do that, the damage will already be done. If it's one thing that even the dimmest of American voters can interpret as problematic, it's a candidate who won't even [I]show up[/I] and state/debate his or her views. Actually, the damage already is done. The fun, new "outsider" sheen is coming off of Palin FAST. Her profile looked like a risky but good choice for McCain...until she opened her mouth in an un-prompted/scripted setting.

Re: "Disastrous"

[quote=thesightless;654618]your social life is nonexistent if you are drinking wine and watching a debate on a friday eve. go spin somewhere. its the one thing you better than most people.;)[/quote]

Whatever. I'm proud that the guy is drinking wine. 8) Good taste, man!

Re: "Disastrous"

[QUOTE=toasty;654569]Part of me wonders is this is part of the "lowering of expectations" game, but here it is regardless:

[url]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/26/report-mccain-aides-compl_n_129618.html[/url]

If the goal is to lower Palin's expectations, well, "Mission Accomplished" as they say in the GOP. As of right now, I'm expecting the VP debate to be a bloodletting. Joe Biden should commit the following phrase to memory, because I suspect he's going to need some variation of it a number of times:

"Well, I'm not sure how to respond to that, because it frankly doesn't make any sense at all..."[/QUOTE]:lol::lol::lol:

Re: "Disastrous"

[quote=subterFUSE;654675]Whatever. I'm proud that the guy is drinking wine. 8) Good taste, man![/quote]

homo imo

men drink scotch

Re: "Disastrous"

[QUOTE=shosh;654945]homo imo

men drink scotch[/QUOTE]

I drink scotch too, after wine. Oban 14, son.

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I'm hoping what the Hton post says is true.

Re: "Disastrous"

[quote=Jenks;654950]I drink scotch too, after wine. Oban 14, son.[/quote]

[SIZE=4]HOLY SHIT!!! The universe is about to collapse. That's another thing we agree on: Oban 14. That's all I drink, unless I'm out and them I have to go with Mac12[/SIZE]

Re: "Disastrous"

any chance that she's doing this to create a false sense of surety in Biden? i'm looking at some of her debates in alaska. not bad, but not great, but nothing like the Couric interview. McCain could very well be destroying the hope and pride people have in Palin so that, upon the debate with Biden, she does hit that grandslam.

Everyone's expectations are low, so even if she does a mediocre job, it would appear amazing. ANY CHANCE this COURIC interview was a FARCE?

because if i were mccain, that's EXACTLY what i'd do. prove everyone wrong by lowering expectations while keeping her away from the media and in the mean time training her like rocky.

Re: "Disastrous"

i cant wait for the debate. either.

:)

Re: "Disastrous"

[quote=88Mariner;654961]any chance that she's doing this to create a false sense of surety in Biden? i'm looking at some of her debates in alaska. not bad, but not great, but nothing like the Couric interview. McCain could very well be destroying the hope and pride people have in Palin so that, upon the debate with Biden, she does hit that grandslam.

Everyone's expectations are low, so even if she does a mediocre job, it would appear amazing. ANY CHANCE this COURIC interview was a FARCE?

because if i were mccain, that's EXACTLY what i'd do. prove everyone wrong by lowering expectations while keeping her away from the media and in the mean time training her like rocky.[/quote]

Maybe, but it's kind of sad and just a bit ridiculous if that's your strategy as a presidential hopeful. Letting your running mate come across as so stupid that we all stand up and cheer simply when they walk to the podium rather than crawl up on all 4s? :lol: Please.

Re: "Disastrous"

[quote=88Mariner;654961]any chance that she's doing this to create a false sense of surety in Biden? i'm looking at some of her debates in alaska. not bad, but not great, but nothing like the Couric interview. McCain could very well be destroying the hope and pride people have in Palin so that, upon the debate with Biden, she does hit that grandslam.

Everyone's expectations are low, so even if she does a mediocre job, it would appear amazing. ANY CHANCE this COURIC interview was a FARCE?

because if i were mccain, that's EXACTLY what i'd do. prove everyone wrong by lowering expectations while keeping her away from the media and in the mean time training her like rocky.[/quote]

That is exactly what I was thinking, I wrote it, then I edited my post and took it out. Despite her interviews, it gives the republicans some time to lure the dems in and like you said, come the debate, pin Biden in the corner.

Re: "Disastrous"

[QUOTE=Localizer;655087]That is exactly what I was thinking, I wrote it, then I edited my post and took it out. Despite her interviews, it gives the republicans some time to lure the dems in and like you said, come the debate, pin Biden in the corner.[/QUOTE]

That's a whale of a risk to take, IMO. Forget what we've seen of Palin over the last couple of weeks, and we'd probably all still agree that the odds of her "pinning Biden in the corner" are very, very low. He might do something to fuck it up himself, but she doesn't have the knowledge base to win it on her own. The only difference is that we now know that we might get to see something comically tragic.

Re: "Disastrous"

[quote=toasty;655106]That's a whale of a risk to take, IMO. Forget what we've seen of Palin over the last couple of weeks, and we'd probably all still agree that the odds of her "pinning Biden in the corner" are very, very low. He might do something to fuck it up himself, but she doesn't have the knowledge base to win it on her own. The only difference is that we now know that we might get to see something comically tragic.[/quote]

to the contrary, she may bail out at the last second. under guise of having to take care of her down syndrome nugget, a manufactured 'emergency' to get her out of it. who would blame her?

Re: "Disastrous"

[quote=88Mariner;655170]to the contrary, she may bail out at the last second. under guise of having to take care of her down syndrome nugget, a manufactured 'emergency' to get her out of it. who would blame her?[/quote]

Wouldn't surprise me. But even if she does, the damage will still be done to McCain. People aren't dumb - they'll know the real reason she left. And many will rachet up their concern about McCain's ability to exercise good judgment. I know I already have.

Re: "Disastrous"

This is a tactic, don't be surprised if Palin kills Biden in the debate. If one thing Republicans do well ... they play the "mind card" well.

Re: "Disastrous"

You know, instead of going for that sneaky ploy of "our candidate looks retarded, but HA - she's really not", maybe they could just...oh, I don't know... try to pick VP candidates who can actually present themselves as smart and capable right away?

Just a thought. I know it's crazy, but it might work.

Re: "Disastrous"

nah. too simple too boring.

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I don't typically put much stock in the political strategy analysis of the dude at fivethirtyeight.com, but I thought he got this pretty much right on:

[url]http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/09/memo-to-joe-biden-let-palin-talk.html[/url]

Re: "Disastrous"

[quote=88Mariner;654961]any chance that she's doing this to create a false sense of surety in Biden? i'm looking at some of her debates in alaska. not bad, but not great, but nothing like the Couric interview. McCain could very well be destroying the hope and pride people have in Palin so that, upon the debate with Biden, she does hit that grandslam.

Everyone's expectations are low, so even if she does a mediocre job, it would appear amazing. ANY CHANCE this COURIC interview was a FARCE?

because if i were mccain, that's EXACTLY what i'd do. prove everyone wrong by lowering expectations while keeping her away from the media and in the mean time training her like rocky.[/quote]

You gotta be kidding me with this....

In other news... [url]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/27/vice-presidential-debate_n_129907.html[/url]

Re: "Disastrous"

^ the bar, right now, has been set so freaking low, that a decent performance by her, is going to make her look like a rock star.

Re: "Disastrous"

[QUOTE=88Mariner;656068]^ the bar, right now, has been set so freaking low, that a decent performance by her, is going to make her look like a rock star.[/QUOTE]

I'm a bit concerned about that, too. The problem, though, is that keeping expectations low is one thing, but you can also perform so badly in the run-up to a debate that a "better-than-expected" performance won't save you. She might be past that point, as a lot of people have already made up their mind on Sarah Palin, and the impression they have isn't good. She's gone from rock star to punchline in the matter of a couple of weeks.

Did you see Tina Fey's skit mocking the Couric interview? For one of the responses -- and keep in mind that this is a [B]comedy sketch[/B] -- the vast majority of Fey's answer was lifted directly out of Sarah Palin's [B]ACTUAL RESPONSE[/B] to the same question. She literally didn't have to change the answer to get a laugh. It was funny and horrifying at the same time.

The more I think about this, the more convinced I am that as much as I'd like to see Biden tear her a new one, Biden can only hurt himself by engaging her, because it would be tough to not be condescending to such absurdity.

Re: "Disastrous"

I thought the debate was on Thurs.?

Re: "Disastrous"

^^it is -- 9 pm Eastern

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[quote=toasty;656088] Did you see Tina Fey's skit mocking the Couric interview? For one of the responses -- and keep in mind that this is a [B]comedy sketch[/B] -- the vast majority of Fey's answer was lifted directly out of Sarah Palin's [B]ACTUAL RESPONSE[/B] to the same question. She literally didn't have to change the answer to get a laugh. It was funny and horrifying at the same time. [/quote]

[URL]http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/video/clips/couric-palin-open/704042/[/URL]

At around 2:50 is pretty good.

Re: "Disastrous"

[QUOTE=toasty;656088]I'm a bit concerned about that, too. The problem, though, is that keeping expectations low is one thing, but you can also perform so badly in the run-up to a debate that a "better-than-expected" performance won't save you. She might be past that point, as a lot of people have already made up their mind on Sarah Palin, and the impression they have isn't good.
[/QUOTE]

As I think about this a bit more, it could also be the case that her expectations are now so low that people will be expecting the gaffes and slip-ups, and that they will be the focus of the debate even if she does better than expected overall. They fit into the pre-existing storyline for Palin, so unless she's mistake-free, which we know isn't going to happen, that's what is going to get all of the attention.

Ironically, Biden is almost immune from his inevitable gaffes, also because they are expected. When Biden goofs something up, the reaction is almost like, "Oh look, Biden did it again." When Biden says that Roosevelt got on TV in 1929 to calm the nation, he gets a pass because (1) he is known for mixing things up, and (2) we all know from his history as a Senator that he misspoke, that he doesn't really think that Roosevelt went on TV in 1929. He makes mistakes, people roll their eyes, but he ultimately gets away with it. Palin won't have that luxury because she doesn't have the credentials where we can all assume that she just misspoke about something.

Re: "Disastrous"

[quote=toasty;656088]I'm a bit concerned about that, too. The problem, though, is that keeping expectations low is one thing, but you can also perform so badly in the run-up to a debate that a "better-than-expected" performance won't save you. She might be past that point, as a lot of people have already made up their mind on Sarah Palin, and the impression they have isn't good. She's gone from rock star to punchline in the matter of a couple of weeks.

Did you see Tina Fey's skit mocking the Couric interview? For one of the responses -- and keep in mind that this is a [B]comedy sketch[/B] -- the vast majority of Fey's answer was lifted directly out of Sarah Palin's [B]ACTUAL RESPONSE[/B] to the same question. She literally didn't have to change the answer to get a laugh. It was funny and horrifying at the same time.

The more I think about this, the more convinced I am that as much as I'd like to see Biden tear her a new one, Biden can only hurt himself by engaging her, because it would be tough to not be condescending to such absurdity.[/quote]

yes i'm aware of this.

biden's going to fuck up. I had a dream about it last night. in the dream he was debating palin and all of a sudden, he couldn't answer a question, and then started walking over to edwards' children, yanked them in front of the tv cameras, and said, "do you want your children growing up like this".

i woke up in a cold sweat. i'm dead serious about the dream too.

also, i've been reading rumours that CBS has two more clips from that interview not yet posted. I can guess that if they'll be using this friday after the debates. which might be fresh fodder for SNL (who is doing an 8-week Palin intro sketch lol)

Re: "Disastrous"

[QUOTE=88Mariner;656445] i'm dead serious about the dream too.

also, i've been reading rumours that CBS has two more clips from that interview not yet posted. I can guess that if they'll be using this friday after the debates. which might be fresh fodder for SNL (who is doing an 8-week Palin intro sketch lol)[/QUOTE]

You're dreaming about political debates? And I thought I was obsessed... ;)

I've heard about these clips, too. Evidently, [URL="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/29/latest-palin-gaffe-cant-n_n_130395.html"]one of them is her being asked to discuss a Supreme Court ruling other than Roe v Wade[/URL]. Not a particular decision, mind you, but [I]any [/I]decision she thought was important or that she cared about. That question was met with silence -- no scrambling, bullshitting or talking point-dropping, just silence. Haven't seen it yet, though, and haven't heard anything at all about the other clip.

Re: "Disastrous"

[quote=toasty;656451]You're dreaming about political debates? And I thought I was obsessed... ;)

I've heard about these clips, too. Evidently, [URL="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/29/latest-palin-gaffe-cant-n_n_130395.html"]one of them is her being asked to discuss a Supreme Court ruling other than Roe v Wade[/URL]. Not a particular decision, mind you, but [I]any [/I]decision she thought was important or that she cared about. That question was met with silence -- no scrambling, bullshitting or talking point-dropping, just silence. Haven't seen it yet, though, and haven't heard anything at all about the other clip.[/quote]

yes. i'm also having nightmares about law school exams too. it's another two and a half months away. fvck. heh.

as far as Roe goes, the epic lulz about this is, from what i've read, that she knows of no other supreme court ruling. none. zilch.

i know that she had to have been asked about Roe at some point (probably a debate question, too). so this isn't too far a stretch if it's a rumour.

Re: "Disastrous"

[QUOTE=88Mariner;656459] as far as Roe goes, the epic lulz about this is, from what i've read, that she knows of no other supreme court ruling. none. zilch.

i know that she had to have been asked about Roe at some point (probably a debate question, too). so this isn't too far a stretch if it's a rumour.[/QUOTE]

I'm going to reserve judgment on this for now, because depending upon what question was asked, she might not have had any good reason to have another case handy to discuss. If she was unable to name another Supreme Court case, that's pretty pathetic, but I doubt she was just asked to name another case. More likely she was asked something along the lines of other SC decisions she'd like to see overturned or some shit like that -- that wouldn't explain her sitting there quietly like a moose in the headlights, but she might actually be OK with the other SC rulings as they currently stand. There are only a few that I can think of that I care enough about that I'd actively like to see overturned, and no one outside of my line of work probably gives a flying fuck about those cases...

Re: "Disastrous"

Heller????

i would not believe a gun-owner has never heard of that one. no friggin way.

or the Exxon-Valdez one where they capped the damages.

Re: "Disastrous"

[QUOTE=88Mariner;656477]Heller????

i would not believe a gun-owner has never heard of that one. no friggin way.

or the Exxon-Valdez one where they capped the damages.[/QUOTE]

Well, she'd agree with both of those decisions, I suspect, but that's not really the point. I'm just saying that I'm going to reserve judgment on this until I hear the question she was actually asked. If the question was "Name a US Supreme Court case" and she couldn't do it, she's even more of an idiot that we ever dreamed. I can't imagine it was that cut and dry, though.