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Russian Warships Sail to Venezuela

14 durable postsStarted 2008-09-22Latest 2008-09-26
#59932Post 1 of 14

Article From today's New York Times. This [I]should[/I] make anyone think twice about electing rage-prone McCain and Miss Wasilla to the office. Putin and his boys are taking advantage of an opening here because of our military paralysis prompted by eight years of executive mental paralysis and abuse of power. Can you just see it now? - President Dimitri Medvedyev (groomed thorougly as Putin's underling) facing President Palin in a Monroe-Doctrine style standoff analogous to the Cuban Missile crisis ([I]think Kennedy vs. Kruschev[/I]). This time, of course, Medvedyev (Putin really), is determined to win and won't back down. And then of course President Palin who won't blink, fumbling with the codes, though confident she must launch the missiles as the most prescient and final act of God's will ([I]think the Book of Revelation[/I]).

Well, you get the idea. :shock:

We ought to be leaving Russia's neighbors alone when it comes to military matters. They are obviously distressed with this whole NATO (Ukraine & Georgia) thing. It's kinda like playing with a dog's tail and saying "See, he likes it, yeah, yeah, he likes it!" Next thing you know you've got a hand full of teeth. We should think twice about our part in prompting this potential new Cold War. I know it's a bit more complicated than that, but if we keep pushing Russia's buttons it is reasonable for one to expect them to push back.

Russian Warships Sail to Venezuela By MICHAEL SCHWIRTZ Published: September 22, 2008 MOSCOW — A squadron from the Russian Navy’s North Sea Fleet sailed for [URL="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/venezuela/index.html?inline=nyt-geo"][COLOR=#004276]Venezuela[/COLOR][/URL] on Monday, a Russian Navy spokesman said, in a bid by [URL="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/russiaandtheformersovietunion/index.html?inline=nyt-geo"][COLOR=#004276]Russia[/COLOR][/URL] to bolster military links in Latin America as relations with the United States continue to deteriorate. The convoy — including the nuclear-powered guided missile cruiser Peter the Great and the anti-submarine ship Admiral Chabanenko — left the fleet’s base in Severomorsk bound for the Venezuelan coast, where the ships will take part in joint maneuvers with the Venezuelan Navy sometime in November, said Igor Dygalo, a Russian Navy spokesman. Stung by the West’s strong condemnation of Russia’s actions in last month’s war with Georgia, Moscow appears to have redoubled its efforts to strengthen ties with Venezuela, Cuba and other Latin American countries, in moves reminiscent of the Soviet Union’s proxy battles with the United States in the region during the Cold War. Last week, two Russian Tu-160 strategic bombers flew to Venezuela for exercises over the Caribbean Sea, and a Russian delegation led by Igor I. Sechin, a deputy prime minister and chairman of the Russian oil company [URL="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/r/rosneft/index.html?inline=nyt-org"][COLOR=#004276]Rosneft[/COLOR][/URL], visited Caracas and Havana for talks on expanding economic ties. It was Mr. Sechin’s second visit to the region in less than two months. The decision to deploy Russian warships so close to the American coastline could also be linked to the Kremlin’s frustration over the presence of [URL="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/n/north_atlantic_treaty_organization/index.html?inline=nyt-org"][COLOR=#004276]NATO[/COLOR][/URL] and American naval vessels in the Black Sea, a region Moscow considers its sphere of influence. Earlier this month, an American naval ship delivered humanitarian aid to Georgia in one of the country’s Black Sea ports. Russia has denied that the war in Georgia had any connection to the Russian navy’s planned exercises with Venezuela. “These exercises were planned long before the Georgian-Ossetian conflict,” Mr. Dygalo said. “They are not linked to the conflict.” Meanwhile, [URL="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/c/hugo_chavez/index.html?inline=nyt-per"][COLOR=#004276]Hugo Chávez[/COLOR][/URL], Venezuela’s president, plans to visit Russia this week, his second visit in two months. In an interview broadcast by Russia’s Vesti 24 television on Saturday, Mr. Chávez said Latin America was freeing itself from the “imperial” influence from the United States and needed Russia’s friendship. “Not only Venezuela, but all of Latin America needs friends like Russia,” Mr. Chavez said. “For economic development, for the support of all Latin America, for the lives of the people of our continent.”

#1086335Post 2 of 14

Re: Russian Warships Sail to Venezuela

But Cactus, Sarah Palin knows all about Russia. She can see it [I]from her house.[/I] Nothing a little lipstick and moose pie won't smooth over.

#1086340Post 3 of 14

Re: Russian Warships Sail to Venezuela

Just scared again :shock:

#1086493Post 4 of 14

Re: Russian Warships Sail to Venezuela

what people are neglecting to mention in order to feed the fear factor is that this has been scheduled with UN consent for a long time. it hasnt been thrown at us. it went to the UN floor and was approved.

#1090126Post 5 of 14

Re: Russian Warships Sail to Venezuela

[quote=CactusBeats;652968]Article From today's New York Times. This [I]should[/I] make anyone think twice about electing rage-prone McCain and Miss Wasilla to the office. Putin and his boys are taking advantage of an opening here because of our military paralysis prompted by eight years of executive mental paralysis and abuse of power. Can you just see it now? - President Dimitri Medvedyev (groomed thorougly as Putin's underling) facing President Palin in a Monroe-Doctrine style standoff analogous to the Cuban Missile crisis ([I]think Kennedy vs. Kruschev[/I]). This time, of course, Medvedyev (Putin really), is determined to win and won't back down. And then of course President Palin who won't blink, fumbling with the codes, though confident she must launch the missiles as the most prescient and final act of God's will ([I]think the Book of Revelation[/I]). [/quote]

Military Paralysis??? Obviously you have no clue about what is realy going on over there. We are in Iraq for many reasons. We control Iraq then we we control most of that region and have the nessisary strike rage capabillity.

Do you expect McCain to die all of a sudden? And if Palin were to be faced with leading this country against the Russians she surly wouldn't be the only one up there. This is just some anti bush hate mongering. Typical.

So i guess Obama being groomed politically at a young age by the Weather Underground does not bother you at all. ( Remember that the Weather Underground was an American terrorist group that planed and carried out violent acts of terrorism in the 60's on its native soil in an attemt to " over throw " the government.

The Dems new they couldn't beat McCain right now. So up comes dumbass Obama to distract you even more and from the looks of it it worked great>

#1090204Post 6 of 14

Re: Russian Warships Sail to Venezuela

[quote=phuck'm-up;654027]Military Paralysis??? Obviously you have no clue about what is realy going on over there. We are in Iraq for many reasons. We control Iraq then we we control most of that region and have the nessisary strike rage capabillity.

Do you expect McCain to die all of a sudden? And if Palin were to be faced with leading this country against the Russians she surly wouldn't be the only one up there. This is just some anti bush hate mongering. Typical.

So i guess Obama being groomed politically at a young age by the Weather Underground does not bother you at all. ( Remember that the Weather Underground was an American terrorist group that planed and carried out violent acts of terrorism in the 60's on its native soil in an attemt to " over throw " the government.

The Dems new they couldn't beat McCain right now. So up comes dumbass Obama to distract you even more and from the looks of it it worked great>[/quote]

You have summarized right-wing AM talk-radio talking points well. You have been listening regularly, I suspect. Part of a military's effectiveness lies in it's ability to deter actions of other actors. Our involvement in Iraq gives us strike-range capability for Georgia or Russia, for example. Did we use it? No. The Russians are not the least bit concerned about us retaliating now because our military is weak and over-extended. Two "wars," well, one war, one [I]massively expensive occupation[/I] is what we really have. Bush rode our military hard and put it away wet, leaving the next administration with few military options in its first term. We are already over-committed in two places with few signs of any quick ending. Our military needs a complete overhaul and massive hardware replacement funding, not to mention a massive influx of new recruits.

Bush recently released his final military plans/projections for Iraq and they mirror plans released by Obama last spring.

Maybe the reason we won against the Weather Underground is that we didn't start a "War Aginst Terror" against them and a land war in a middle eastern country. Police actions against terrorist groups really are effective - per your example. Just a thought.

We give Al-Quaida what they want everytime we engage them in full military battle. Bush has been Al-Quaida's best friend. We give them the highest level of military training they could ask for; that is, battle against the most technically advanced military, which in turn gives them time to advance their tactics and recruit as the area where the "war" or occupation exists is destroyed, neglected, looted, etc. Iraq was a recruiting coup for Al-Quaida in the Arab world and beyond.

And no, Obama's connection to Bill Ayers doens't bother me in the least. What do you propose that it means for our country if Obama is elected? Do you think Bill Ayers will become Secretary of State? This sounds like Limbaugh or Michaels Savage bullshit paranoia. They never even say what they think the association will lead to. Are you afraid of a strengthened Weather Underground? C'mon - nobody cares anymore. Ayers saw justice and repaid his debt to society.

#1090211Post 7 of 14

Re: Russian Warships Sail to Venezuela

^ did that dude really just say Palin could be effective against the russians? REAALLLLLLLLLLLY?

Condi Rice has tons of experience in that sector, and you're suggesting that Palin is on par with Rice?

This isn't as much about reciting talking points than it is about being contrarian to anything a non-neocon has to say, objective or otherwise.

#1090215Post 8 of 14

Re: Russian Warships Sail to Venezuela

[quote=88Mariner;654123]^ did that dude really just say Palin could be effective against the russians? REAALLLLLLLLLLLY?

Condi Rice has tons of experience in that sector, and you're suggesting that Palin is on par with Rice? [/quote]

88Mariner - she is like best friends with the Russians. She talks to them by walkie talkie from her house.

About Rice being on par with Palin; maybe not such a stretch. Look at how effective Rice has been with North Korea. They have reopened the casks of nuclear fuel at the reactor. Rice was unable to negotiate a protocol for ensuring the nuclear program remained inactive. Hence, we were [I][B]had[/B][/I] by North Korea - again!

[quote=88Mariner;654123]This isn't as much about reciting talking points than it is about being contrarian to anything a non-neocon has to say, objective or otherwise.[/quote]
I am within earshot of one of these AM Radio ubermeisters at work and it sounds exactly like it. They repeat them over and over and over and over until you think it must be true. Well, it must be - I heard it on the radio...

#1090218Post 9 of 14

Re: Russian Warships Sail to Venezuela

but Palin can see russia from her house!! :)

#1090220Post 10 of 14

Re: Russian Warships Sail to Venezuela

^cactus: was refering to the poster above you heh. sorry.

i know what you mean by repeating what you say. My dad occassionally listens to limbaugh or hannity, but i know he watches hannity at night.

anyways, the day palin was picked, i'm talking not even 4-5 hours later, he was telling me how experienced she was. it was really hard to accept that my own father drank from the same trough as other listener to the right-wing radio.

don't get me wrong....limbaugh is usually spot on (hannity is a whole nother story)...but he can be wrong, and he definitely is wrong on Palin.

#1090223Post 11 of 14

Re: Russian Warships Sail to Venezuela

[quote=88Mariner;654133]^cactus: was refering to the poster above you heh. sorry. .[/quote] No apologies necessary - I got that before - and no offense taken.

[quote=88Mariner;654133]i know what you mean by repeating what you say. My dad occassionally listens to limbaugh or hannity, but i know he watches hannity at night.

anyways, the day palin was picked, i'm talking not even 4-5 hours later, he was telling me how experienced she was. it was really hard to accept that my own father drank from the same trough as other listener to the right-wing radio.

don't get me wrong....limbaugh is usually spot on (hannity is a whole nother story)...but he can be wrong, and he definitely is wrong on Palin.[/quote]

Any party that needs all these radio guys hammering the point home relentlessly day & night makes me suspicious. Not only suspicious, but all slimy and used too -ewwwww!! It's like, gee I am not smart enough to come to my own conclusions, so I need you guys to do it for me. Please tell me what to think. I am not smart enough to do that for myself. PLEASE!

#1090274Post 12 of 14

Re: Russian Warships Sail to Venezuela

The more I read on Russia, the more I realize that they're maneuvering to best position themselves incident to a potential market meltdown. [I]Once this happens, the integrity of our national security structure collapses[/I].

A few days ago, Russia’s NATO envoy Dmitry Rogozin says Russia will break off its relationship with the alliance if it admits Georgia. He warned that there is no way Russia could continue cooperating with NATO if the Membership Action Plan was approved for Georgia. "We would have to stop all contact. Georgia's entry to NATO would make the world a different place," he said. Rogozin added that alliance members must be aware of this, as it concerns the European countries most of all.[url]http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/georgia-2008-2.htm[/url]

To me, this suggests that Russians want to strong-arm europeans to disengage with the americans. I recommend reading, in full, the link posted above. It's pretty much become my new Drudge.

I can't possibly think that Russia would start mobilizing to take advantage of the crisis, but I can't remove all doubt against that either.

#1090278Post 13 of 14

Re: Russian Warships Sail to Venezuela

^ From my surface understanding of the current Russian stance in regard to Georgia and Europe, they are using energy (natural gas pipeline yet to be built either across Georgia-planned or Russia) as a wedge against US-Euro relations. The Russians are saying to the Europeans either you are with us or you are with the USA, in which case life could become very difficult, expensive, and cold in Europe.

#1090381Post 14 of 14

Re: Russian Warships Sail to Venezuela

I should not post my political opinions on here. Yesterday was a bad day. i am just concerned as are all of us.

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