The more I think about it, the more I see that Palin was a risky but shrewd bet - and one that seems to be paying off. Like most people, I misjudged her at first by just focusing on her lack of experience and contrasting her with Hillary's historic run...when in fact the reality is this:

It's not about whether she is really good or not (perhaps she may be). Her value lies in the fact that[I] she is such an effective foil to Obama's image.[/I]

Got trouble dealing with Obama, the populist outsider/reformer/change-bringer? Then fight fire with fire and get your own. She's proven that she is charismatic and good enough to capture the spotlight and favorably place herself in peoples' minds as a reformer and a Washington outsider. And it seems she has credibly stripped some of the sheen off of the Obama campaign as "owning" all the buzz about reform, change, outsider status, populist rhetoric, etc. - all the stuff that emotionally fired people up about Obama.

And here's the really smart part: Even when you try to nail her for her weaknesses, they quickly point you back to Obama. Palin's inexperienced? Maybe she won't be as effective? OK, sure. But...then what can you say about Obama, who is even just heading for VP but for the [I]top seat?[/I] If you say that she's empty and lacks substance...it's hard not to then apply that same standard to Obama.

The gamble was whether Palin would go over well with the broader public. She did. And it was only effective because it was Obama on the other side...who they watched go first and pick a 30+ year Washington insider as VP.

The Obama campaign should pay attention and take her seriously now as a threat. They're getting a taste of their own medicine.

Re: Sarah Palin was risky, but actually a pretty smart choice

Now think of her as President of the USA :)

Re: Sarah Palin was risky, but actually a pretty smart choice

smart choice for mccain. bad choice for the united states.

Re: Sarah Palin was risky, but actually a pretty smart choice

yeah it was pretty smart- except she's a fucking reactionary. just what we need more of.

fuck that useless patronizing irrelevant shit-eating sassy gun-toting isolationist fundie hockey-mom. i fear for this country if she has any more power than she does now. i fear the mindless people who would elect her. i fear her foreign policy and the disaster of international relations under her blind over-confident control. i fear her 10 x dick cheney. she makes cheney look liberal and friendly. that abhorrence must not be suffered to continue in politics.

Re: Sarah Palin was risky, but actually a pretty smart choice

[quote=sammwalk;645422] fuck that useless patronizing irrelevant shit-eating sassy gun-toting isolationist fundie hockey-mom. i fear for this country if she has any more power than she does now. i fear the mindless people who would elect her. i fear her foreign policy and the disaster of international relations under her blind over-confident control. i fear her 10 x dick cheney. she makes cheney look liberal and friendly. that abhorrence must not be suffered to continue in politics.[/quote]

fuck that useless patronizing irrelevant shit-eating sassy arrogant liberal Obama. i fear for this country if he has any more power than he does now. i fear the mindless people who would elect him. i fear his foreign policy and the disaster of international relations under his blind over-confident control. i fear his 10 x joe biden. he makes biden look conservative and intelligent. that abhorrence must not be suffered to continue in politics

Re: Sarah Palin was risky, but actually a pretty smart choice

'' Telling You , Told You So In 08 '' , Is Telling You Again .

Re: Sarah Palin was risky, but actually a pretty smart choice

[quote=k3n3;645436]fuck that useless patronizing irrelevant shit-eating sassy arrogant liberal Obama. i fear for this country if he has any more power than he does now. i fear the mindless people who would elect him. i fear his foreign policy and the disaster of international relations under his blind over-confident control. i fear his 10 x joe biden. he makes biden look conservative and intelligent. that abhorrence must not be suffered to continue in politics[/quote]

ah yes, thinking inside the box. nicely done.

Re: Sarah Palin was risky, but actually a pretty smart choice

[QUOTE=k3n3;645436]fuck that useless patronizing irrelevant shit-eating sassy arrogant liberal Obama. i fear for this country if he has any more power than he does now. i fear the mindless people who would elect him. i fear his foreign policy and the disaster of international relations under his blind over-confident control. i fear his 10 x joe biden. he makes biden look conservative and intelligent. that abhorrence must not be suffered to continue in politics[/QUOTE] Sorry I like sammwalk's better, and i am looking from outside. :lol:

Re: Sarah Palin was risky, but actually a pretty smart choice

[QUOTE=Miroslav;645397]The more I think about it, the more I see that Palin was a risky but shrewd bet - and one that seems to be paying off. Like most people, I misjudged her at first by just focusing on her lack of experience and contrasting her with Hillary's historic run...when in fact the reality is this:

It's not about whether she is really good or not (perhaps she may be). Her value lies in the fact that[I] she is such an effective foil to Obama's image.[/I]

Got trouble dealing with Obama, the populist outsider/reformer/change-bringer? Then fight fire with fire and get your own. She's proven that she is charismatic and good enough to capture the spotlight and favorably place herself in peoples' minds as a reformer and a Washington outsider. And it seems she has credibly stripped some of the sheen off of the Obama campaign as "owning" all the buzz about reform, change, outsider status, populist rhetoric, etc. - all the stuff that emotionally fired people up about Obama.

And here's the really smart part: Even when you try to nail her for her weaknesses, they quickly point you back to Obama. Palin's inexperienced? Maybe she won't be as effective? OK, sure. But...then what can you say about Obama, who is even just heading for VP but for the [I]top seat?[/I] If you say that she's empty and lacks substance...it's hard not to then apply that same standard to Obama.

The gamble was whether Palin would go over well with the broader public. She did. And it was only effective because it was Obama on the other side...who they watched go first and pick a 30+ year Washington insider as VP.

The Obama campaign should pay attention and take her seriously now as a threat. They're getting a taste of their own medicine.[/QUOTE]

Very good points. For me, I'm still assessing her. I want to hear her campaign more, learn more about her and see how she handles herself in debates. Let's see if she's a credible candidate or if she gets exposed as another ignorant conservative in lipstick and a skirt. One good speech does not make a VP.

Re: Sarah Palin was risky, but actually a pretty smart choice

I don't disagree with you guys in terms of her being bad for America - I personally don't like many of her opinions.

Re: Sarah Palin was risky, but actually a pretty smart choice

I think you raise some pretty good points, but I'm going to reserve judgment for the time being, because I think that while it may have had a positive impact in the short term, I have serious questions about whether she can sustain this energy -- particularly when we're really no going to be seeing her much at all between now and November (she's got 30 fund raisers scheduled in the next 30 days -- doesn't leave a lot time for stumping). In the age of the 24 hour news cycle, that speech of hers will be a distant memory come November. What have you done for me lately, ya know?

[QUOTE=Miroslav;645397]

The gamble was whether Palin would go over well with the broader public. She did. And it was only effective because it was Obama on the other side...who they watched go first and pick a 30+ year Washington insider as VP.

The Obama campaign should pay attention and take her seriously now as a threat. They're getting a taste of their own medicine.[/QUOTE]

They've definitely taking her seriously, and they should, but I'm not sure you can say that her speech necessarily went over well with the broader public -- the folks on the convention floor went nuts, but they're hardly the broader public. As to the public at large, it seems that everyone agrees that she gave the speech really well, but the polls I've seen don't suggest that it actually translates into votes or that people have changed their mind about her experience based upon her speech.

Re: Sarah Palin was risky, but actually a pretty smart choice

I really wish she were less polarizing. Her extreme views (obviously) put me off, and what's more, it's like, who the fuck are you? She comes out "swinging" but it's not like she has a history of a political platform to stand on. I can see her running in four years, but now?

And anyone who draws similarities between Obama and Palin is confused. What, because they're both young? I'm sorry, I think that they couldn't be more different in almost every way. Attitude, tone, energy, personality.

I understand why Palin's popular. I think the same people who like her would like to pave the US coast to cost with shopping malls. It strikes me as odd because you'd think being avid hunters or "rugged individualists" that these same people would advocate environmental protections and be anti-corporate. Seriously, people's idealogies are really freaking compartmentalized.

Re: Sarah Palin was risky, but actually a pretty smart choice

on one more note, I would say... it just boggles the mind that we could live to see times where someone as inexperienced and unqualified as Palin is considered for VP.

Then again, it still boggles the mind that we could live to see times where someone as inexperienced and unqualified as Obama is considered for President.

But I guess it's what must happen, given how badly the last administration has blown it and how desperate people are for something - [I]anything[/I], really - that is different.

Re: Sarah Palin was risky, but actually a pretty smart choice

And both Palin and Obama got there the same way. They both speak well ??

When the dust settles this could be a good thing for the Democrats. The disgruntled Hillary crew should swing back really quickly after looking at this women . :lol:

Re: Sarah Palin was risky, but actually a pretty smart choice

[quote=Miroslav;645819]on one more note, I would say... it just boggles the mind that we could live to see times where someone as inexperienced and unqualified as Palin is considered for VP.

Then again, it still boggles the mind that we could live to see times where someone as inexperienced and unqualified as Obama is considered for President.

But I guess it's what must happen, given how badly the last administration has blown it and how desperate people are for something - [I]anything[/I], really - that is different.[/quote]

this begs the question: what defines "experience" for the president? Because obviously it doesn't seem to matter: Bush is terrible, and would pass Obama [I]and [/I]Palin in "qualifications". Then again, an actor wound up being the best Republican in recent memory.

Re: Sarah Palin was risky, but actually a pretty smart choice

[quote=Miroslav;645690]I don't disagree with you guys in terms of her being bad for America - I personally don't like many of her opinions.[/quote]

you can't possibly say this. she hasn't even stated what her opinions are. We don't know her views on Iran or Fannie Mae or the EITC or the battle between Shia and Sunni Islam. Now: can you imagine a man being selected as vice-president and only giving feature interviews to People?

She's been in hiding for 9 days, and probably for two more weeks as fox news is indicating. Quayle was interviewed 1 day after he was chosen. Ferraro, four days after. This is nine days after she was picked (to which McCain doesn't remember when he picked her, his words now), and she hasn't come out of the protective bunker that Cheney is hiding in...

Can you imagine if ANY OTHER CANDIDATE said "i'm gone for two weeks, no questions."??? Why is she getting this free pass? Since when is the governor of a state given a fortnight of hiding??? This is rising to a Manchurian Candidate level of creepiness right now. Utterly terrifying.

The BBC has it correct: ' Why is being a soccer mom a qualification for being the second in command of the so-called global superpower?" And continued, " Let's imagine that governor Palin was indeed a man. He wouldn't be interesting. He'd be outrageous. She [I]is[/I] outrageous, actually."

This wasn't a risky choice. McCain winged it. It shows his utter contempt for the Office of the President of the United States, and worse, for the Executive Branch. There is ZERO EVIDENCE that she possesses the critical decision-making skillset required of office.

As one blog I read this morning said, "Sarah Palin, someone to gossip about, not select as vice president."

Re: Sarah Palin was risky, but actually a pretty smart choice

[quote=88Mariner;646077]This wasn't a risky choice. McCain winged it. It shows his utter contempt for the Office of the President of the United States, and worse, for the Executive Branch. There is ZERO EVIDENCE that she possesses the critical decision-making skillset required of office.

As one blog I read this morning said, "Sarah Palin, someone to gossip about, not select as vice president."[/quote]

As I said before...I still don't disagree with you on the lack-of-substance part. :lol: The only opinions of hers that I can comment on are the ones that I've been able to deduce from her past comments and actions. And I generally don't like those. But I am confident in telling you that I think McCain's camp most certainly [I]did not[/I] wing this one, regardless of whether we like her or not. Let me explain again.

And as I said, it boggles the mind that we have arrived at a situation where someone like Palin makes sense to even be considered for VP. But what has made this situation possible? I'll tell you what:

1. An administration that arguably was one of our worst [I]ever[/I], and made people desperate for anyone - [I]anything[/I] - that doesn't seem to come from Washington.

2. An inexperienced, charismatic candidate on the Democratic side as a result of #1 above who developed a monopoly on the whole "change/hope" schtick in the minds of millions of voters.

People should recognize: picking an experienced Cheney type for VP would never have energized McCain's bid anywhere [I]near[/I] this much. If he had played by the book and taken an expected choice, McCain would have died a victim of Obama's "I'm new from the outside" aura, while everyone continued to see his bid as ancient, out of touch, Washington insider, business as usual, etc. And McCain's camp recognized that.

And so that's why it was a smart choice from a [I]strategic marketing[/I] standpoint. While this race isn't anywhere near over, some polls show that she hit more popularity points in [U]a week[/U] than Obama currently has. That wouldn't have happened with a Washington inside - and that sure didn't happen with Biden, by the way.

The fact that Obama and Palin are probably fairly empty candidates is another issue altogether.

Re: Sarah Palin was risky, but actually a pretty smart choice

[URL]http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/11/rove-to-obama-attacking-palin-is-dumb/[/URL]

it's amazing, but Karl Rove and I agree on something.

Re: Sarah Palin was risky, but actually a pretty smart choice

the only reason Karl Rove is still alive is that no one would stoop so low to waste their time putting energy into killing him.

Re: Sarah Palin was risky, but actually a pretty smart choice

[quote=sammwalk;648586]the only reason Karl Rove is still alive is that no one would stoop so low to waste their time putting energy into killing him.[/quote]

:rant:

wow, that's probably the most hateful post of the day... kudos...

Re: Sarah Palin was risky, but actually a pretty smart choice

wow, that's probably the most hateful post of the day... kudos...[/quote]

i know exactly where you fit on the spectrum now. GOP: Right or Wrong. No offense, but do you ever watch CNN?

Re: Sarah Palin was risky, but actually a pretty smart choice

[FONT=Helvetica][COLOR=white]my party affiliation is of no consequence... I have merely come to this forum as a humble servant, whose mission is to bring order and balance to this ridiculous and inconsequential discussion... My primary goal is to assist in any way, those who wish to defeat the excesses of love and religious devotion commonly referred to as "Obama worship"... A global plague that is threatening to destroy this planet, and life as we know it.[/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica][COLOR=white]Wherever the Kossak propaganda reigns supreme, I'll be there... Wherever the Marxist ideals of the left are praised, I'll be there... Whenever the racism and hatred of the left is accepted and embraced, I'll be there...[/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica][COLOR=white]:unsure:[/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=Helvetica][COLOR=white]Oh wait, sorry... wtf ??? [/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=Helvetica][COLOR=white]I really don't give a shit who wins the election... Politicians, religious extremists, and lawyers are responsible for most of the world's pain and suffering, and imo they pretty much all suck...[/COLOR][/FONT]

Re: Sarah Palin was risky, but actually a pretty smart choice

karl rove does need to die a slow death tho, asap. no matter what side you stand on, anyone with a brain and half a heart knows that guy is the biggest epic douchenozzle on the planet and he's not worthy of sharing air in this planet with humans.

Re: Sarah Palin was risky, but actually a pretty smart choice

[QUOTE=k3n3;648839]Politicians, religious extremists, and [B]lawyers[/B] are responsible for most of the world's pain and suffering, and imo they pretty much all suck...[/QUOTE]

Here's hoping you get charged an offensive and obnoxious amount when you inevitably need one of us.

Re: Sarah Palin was risky, but actually a pretty smart choice

[quote=toasty;648995]here's hoping you get charged an offensive and obnoxious amount when you inevitably need one of us.[/quote]

:) :) :)

Re: Sarah Palin was risky, but actually a pretty smart choice

[quote=toasty;648995]Here's hoping you get charged an offensive and obnoxious amount when you inevitably need one of us.[/quote]

Strange that you didn't take exception with, or debate my point re: the role that lawyers play in the world today...

"get charged an offensive and obnoxious amount " ???

this indeed happened long, long ago.... And is one of the many, many reasons [I]why [/I]I dislike attorneys...

Q: What's the problem with lawyer jokes? A: Lawyer's don't think they're funny, and no one else thinks they're jokes...

Re: Sarah Palin was risky, but actually a pretty smart choice

I get why lawyers are at the receiving end of a lot of jokes and hate, because there are certainly more than a handful of them that abuse the system, chase ambulances, and represent the greed that sits in many Americans (but remember, behind every lawyer seeking a ton of money for frivolous things, there is an American paying him to do so.) That said, i've known Toasty for 10+ years, we were roommates in college long before he was practicing law, and trust me, he is definitely one of the lawyers that is fighting the good fight. You want him on your side. rspkt.

Re: Sarah Palin was risky, but actually a pretty smart choice

I'm tellin ya... many fun articles coming up like this:

[B]Analysis: Biden goes from hot to not since Palin came along[/B] [URL]http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/12/biden.palin/index.html[/URL]

[quote]On Wednesday, Palin's staff told the press corps traveling with the governor her plane had become too heavy, and asked for volunteers to fly commercial. There's plenty of room on Biden's plane. At one point this week, only six reporters climbed aboard. But they got one thing the press traveling with Palin didn't: access to the candidate.[/quote]