[URL]http://www.newsweek.com/id/149009[/URL]

yeah, they did.

Re: sad, but ironically true.

[quote=thesightless;629543][URL]http://www.newsweek.com/id/149009[/URL]

yeah, they did.[/quote]

Jack Bauer 1 World 0

Re: sad, but ironically true.

i'm calling shennanigans on the use of the word 'ironic'.

Re: sad, but ironically true.

Literally turned a whole story around to fit their logic...pretty disgusting if you ask me. I must ask myself though in howfar this series has actually been a leading argument in the whole defense of torture tactics -this may also be a great way to discredit the pro-torture side. Making them seem so childish as to be inspired by a tv-series is great counter-propaganda of course...

Re: sad, but ironically true.

I'll stick with the sad part.

Re: sad, but ironically true.

not irony.

Re: sad, but ironically true.

keifer sutherland for the next secretary of defense!

Re: sad, but ironically true.

who gives a fuck where they got their ideas from. as long as we torture them long and hard and get the necessary info to keep us safe, im all for it. We should take some lessons from the israelis. Mossad ftw

Re: sad, but ironically true.

yes ^

being nice got us nowhere.

Re: sad, but ironically true.

[quote=shosh;630026]who gives a fuck where they got their ideas from. as long as we torture them long and hard and get the necessary info to keep us safe, im all for it. We should take some lessons from the israelis. Mossad ftw[/quote]

safe from what? fear? I bet you sleep with a nightlight you pansy ass.

Re: sad, but ironically true.

[quote=thesightless;630031]yes ^

being nice got us nowhere.[/quote]

and being hardcore cowboys has gotten us so far :roll:.

Re: sad, but ironically true.

[quote=Localizer;630056]safe from what? fear? I bet you sleep with a nightlight you pansy ass.[/quote]

nope just with a gun on my nightstand.

safe from what? lol... you cant be serious? just because you dont hear about every single little thing our forces do to keep terrorists out and you able to sleep at night with or without a nightlight, doesnt mean they're not preventing threats... strong logic there

Re: sad, but ironically true.

[quote=Localizer;630057]and being hardcore cowboys has gotten us so far :roll:.[/quote]

I thought gay cowboys was the in thing :)

Re: sad, but ironically true.

[quote=shosh;630118]nope just with a gun on my nightstand.

safe from what? lol... you cant be serious? just because you dont hear about every single little thing our forces do to keep terrorists out and you able to sleep at night with or without a nightlight, doesnt mean they're not preventing threats... strong logic there[/quote]

oh right, I forgot, you mean like securing our own porous borders? But I mean, your logic is so accurate. Fight them thousands of miles away when they're spread all over the world. You're a pretty shitty strategist; that comes with the typical followers of the administration anyway.

Re: sad, but ironically true.

[quote=shosh;630118]nope just with a gun on my nightstand.

safe from what? lol... you cant be serious? just because you dont hear about every single little thing our forces do to keep terrorists out and you able to sleep at night with or without a nightlight, doesnt mean they're not preventing threats... strong logic there[/quote]

so you're suggesting that it's better not to question government? that it's better that the government keep secrets? that its better to turn a blind eye to the most glaringly obvious flaw in keeping the mainland secure (closing the borders)?

God damn man, which side are you on?

Re: sad, but ironically true.

[quote=Localizer;630227]oh right, I forgot, you mean like securing our own porous borders? But I mean, your logic is so accurate. Fight them thousands of miles away when they're spread all over the world. You're a pretty shitty strategist; that comes with the typical followers of the administration anyway.[/quote]

I dont claim to be a top strategist, thats not why I occupy such positions. Yeah we start fighting them thousands of miles away, because thats why we are holding them and interrogating them? strong comprehension of interogation and its purpose.

[quote=88Mariner;630231]so you're suggesting that it's better not to question government? that it's better that the government keep secrets? that its better to turn a blind eye to the most glaringly obvious flaw in keeping the mainland secure (closing the borders)?

God damn man, which side are you on?[/quote]

i didnt say not questioning the govt, because it needs to be kept in checks and balances, but you cant possibly expect to have most of these operations transparent? you do understand how intelligence gathering works, right? or would you rather have them post everything online, perhaps on cnn.com so that everyone can see all the information we are gathering, what we are doing, what are plans are and so on.

God damn man, which side are you on?

Re: sad, but ironically true.

[QUOTE=Localizer;630056]safe from what? fear? I bet you sleep with a nightlight you pansy ass.[/QUOTE]:CrackUp::CrackUp::CrackUp::CrackUp::CrackUp:

I'm going to pay for this aren't I :Nerves:

Re: sad, but ironically true.

I'm going to pay for this aren't I :Nerves:[/quote]

JK

[IMG]http://www.encircling.us/photoplog/file.php?n=883&w=l[/IMG]

Re: sad, but ironically true.

[quote=shosh;630287]I dont claim to be a top strategist, thats not why I occupy such positions. Yeah we start fighting them thousands of miles away, because thats why we are holding them and interrogating them? strong comprehension of interogation and its purpose. [/quote]

Yes, because somehow it's worked so effectively. It's not like tribal leaders ousted random people for the sake of making the quick buck. It's not like the definition of enemy combatant is vague enough. Tell me again, how is Afghanistan doing? You're mighty strategists holding the positions are doing a pretty shitty job. Money frivolously spent on the private sector to help 'rebuild' Iraq. Caches of weapons worth millions that have disappeared not once, but twice. I'm convinced you're just playing devil's advocate because no one could be stupid enough to continue to follow this administration's jump into a hole 6 feet under -- except, well those corporations benefiting from this war and rural america.

Re: sad, but ironically true.

[QUOTE] you do understand how intelligence gathering works, right? or would you rather have them post everything online, perhaps on cnn.com so that everyone can see all the information we are gathering, what we are doing, what are plans are and so on. [/QUOTE] ] not that i agree with anything here, but this line reminded me of when saddam admitted to watching CNN during the 90's gulf war saying it helped him more than his military did

Re: sad, but ironically true.

[quote=Localizer;630529]Yes, because somehow it's worked so effectively. It's not like tribal leaders ousted random people for the sake of making the quick buck. It's not like the definition of enemy combatant is vague enough. Tell me again, how is Afghanistan doing? You're mighty strategists holding the positions are doing a pretty shitty job. Money frivolously spent on the private sector to help 'rebuild' Iraq. Caches of weapons worth millions that have disappeared not once, but twice. I'm convinced you're just playing devil's advocate because no one could be stupid enough to continue to follow this administration's jump into a hole 6 feet under -- except, well those corporations benefiting from this war and rural america.[/quote]

I'm not following the administration and regardless of what they do or say I will still have my own opinion: if torture is necessary for interrogation, do it; take over iraq and afghanistan in the proper term of the word, dont let them rule (see Germany & Japan); don't pack up and leave Iraq or Afghanistan. Yes, there needs to be more regulation of our intelligence, but the normal folk shouldnt know about it. I think a lot of the mess we are in derives from the fact that when we got involved in Iraq Rumsfeld was the sec of def and he is the devil incarnate. As for your assumtions of rural America, you must be retarded with the rest of the damned hippie liberals. Just because someone lives in rural America and is patriotic they are automatically wrong? wow go live in the ghetto then my friend, hang out with all the liberal "blacks" (for b& of a better word)

[quote=thesightless;630542]] not that i agree with anything here, but this line reminded me of when saddam admitted to watching CNN during the 90's gulf war saying it helped him more than his military did[/quote]

lol

Re: sad, but ironically true.

[quote=shosh;630554]I'm not following the administration and regardless of what they do or say I will still have my own opinion: if torture is necessary for interrogation, do it; take over iraq and afghanistan in the proper term of the word, dont let them rule (see Germany & Japan); don't pack up and leave Iraq or Afghanistan. [/quote]

That's phrased as following the administration - angle it anyway you want, the core is that you have no qualms about what they're doing and you seem to be very proud of it.

[quote] Yes, there needs to be more regulation of our intelligence, but the normal folk shouldnt know about it. I think a lot of the mess we are in derives from the fact that when we got involved in Iraq Rumsfeld was the sec of def and he is the devil incarnate. [/quote]Regulation on intelligence? And you derived this from what in my previous posts?

[quote] As for your assumtions of rural America, you must be retarded with the rest of the damned hippie liberals. Just because someone lives in rural America and is patriotic they are automatically wrong? wow go live in the ghetto then my friend, hang out with all the liberal "blacks" (for b& of a better word)

lol[/quote]My assumptions are pretty dam accurate. Not only do I happen to live in a very conservative state, let alone a state that the republican nominee is from, but I also happened to live in bfe arizona for quite some time in this little known town called Prescott. Not only did I lived there, but I went to school at a fairly conservate private university and was friends with many conservatives from the backwoods. The brunt of my friends are composed of those serving and flying for the military, so ya I have a pretty fair scope of the views of the boonies.

In any case, your last statement shows that you're really only reading for what you want to hear.
Patriotism is subjective and its meaning so loose, ron jeremy probably wouldn't touch it.

Furthermore, considering this idiotic war which has cost us a significant amount and has increased the deficit by a significant margin, I'd say those in rural america, (which is a signifcant majority) especially when voting in 04 and 00, are pretty dam stupid to a) have voted for him in the first place and b) continue to follow him. It has nothing to do with patriotism, only some rather mundane ideals.

Re: sad, but ironically true.

[quote=shosh;630554]As for your assumtions of rural America, you must be retarded with the rest of the damned hippie liberals. Just because someone lives in rural America and is patriotic they are automatically wrong? wow go live in the ghetto then my friend, hang out with all the liberal "blacks" (for b& of a better word)

lol[/quote]

Why is it that your posts tend to come off with an across-the-board defense of rural, uneducated, uber-patriotic "white trash", yet in the same breath you stereotypically bash ALL those liberal "blacks" in the ghetto? If you were at all objective and rational, wouldn't you have to admit that there is lots of variety - both good and bad - in both, and that neither can be wholeheartedly supported or condemned on such a simplistically generalized level?

Re: sad, but ironically true.

im getting ready to go out to dinner so im going to keep this short.

to classify most people who live in rural america as white trash, unintelligent, and uneducated means you are either retarded or smoking some powerful shit. go to some of those towns and live there, and come back and talk.

and your rant about me defending rural america as opposed to attacking the blacks in the ghetto is completely unsubstantiated and based only on the premise that you want to say something against what i have posted. Go and live in the ghetto for a week and go and live in a so-called redneck white trash rural town for a week. Come back and tell me where you would rather be? Those people have done more for this country then those in the ghetto even say they would do. Also those people still value the things on which this country was founded and through which this country became what it is today. The rest want to tear all of this down and ruin it.

I'll come back and finish this tonight. kthxbye

Re: sad, but ironically true.

[quote=shosh;631580]im getting ready to go out to dinner so im going to keep this short.

to classify most people who live in rural america as white trash, unintelligent, and uneducated means you are either retarded or smoking some powerful shit. go to some of those towns and live there, and come back and talk.

and your rant about me defending rural america as opposed to attacking the blacks in the ghetto is completely unsubstantiated and based only on the premise that you want to say something against what i have posted. Go and live in the ghetto for a week and go and live in a so-called redneck white trash rural town for a week. Come back and tell me where you would rather be? Those people have done more for this country then those in the ghetto even say they would do. Also those people still value the things on which this country was founded and through which this country became what it is today. The rest want to tear all of this down and ruin it.

I'll come back and finish this tonight. kthxbye[/quote]

Don't bother. It's pretty clear just by this reply that you didn't read my post in the first place and are drawing tangential conclusions. I don't think I recall ever stating that that rural america was uneducated or white trash (though there's nothing like white trash when you see gun racks on the back of a 4x4). Perhaps if you read my post a little more closely, you'd have seen that. I think the only one smoking some powerful shit is you considering you couldn't comprehend the gist of my post. Your last sentence in the first paragraph exemplifies your poor reading skills. It's pretty safe to say that you owned yourself.

Also, my 'rant' was unsusbstaniated? What's the matter Shosh, can't handle your own ferver that you like to so eloquently dish out to other folks on the board? In any case, my 'rant' was on point in terms of response.

Furthermore, 'those' people stand for true America right? You know, white superiority? No rights for women?

Re: sad, but ironically true.

i gotta say, i know few edumucated people in rural america. and i visit mississippi a few times a year. education? prolly none.

Re: sad, but ironically true.

EDIT: I originally made this pretty scathing and downright rude, and I decided that that was uncalled for. It's the internet, and these debates are fairly silly as it is. I don't need to take this down any further.

shosh, all I have to say to you is... you defend rural white Americans against stereotypes - and rightly so - and then you go on to stereotypically elevate them against basically all urban black Americans in the following manner:

[quote=shosh;631580] Those people have done more for this country then those in the ghetto even say they would do. Also those people still value the things on which this country was founded and through which this country became what it is today. The rest want to tear all of this down and ruin it.[/quote]

So, if it is so stupid to stereotype rural white Americans, how is it so intelligent to stereotype urban black Americans in your contrast?

At any rate, I'm not going to get in a pissing contest over whether people in the trailer parks or in ghettos are actually more virtuous...that's not the point anyways. My real point is simply that rigid ideologies lead to bad thinking. I believe an objective mind should recognize that there are good and bad people in both environments, and it doesn't really make sense to generalize and "elevate" one end of the spectrum over the other.

I obviously don't know you. But I'll be honest, I do sometimes worry about your tolerance for diverse people. I hope that I'm wrong.

[quote=shosh;631580]I'll come back and finish this tonight. kthxbye [/quote]

if you insist; it's a free country. just don't expect me to take it too seriously :lol: I'm an American, too, and I believe I have good "values"...and I just can't reconcile myself with your general ideology. I think the past seven years have done more than enough to discredit it.

but I'll remain tolerant of your right to believe in it. and we'll just have to leave it at that.

Re: sad, but ironically true.

[quote=Localizer;631417]Patriotism is subjective and its meaning so loose, ron jeremy probably wouldn't touch it.[/quote]

lol