[ms] · Est. May 2002
One durable person. One social graph. Many communities—and every way people speak, share, listen, write, gather and remember.
A young Palestinian man unarmed, hands bound together behind his back, blinfolded, is then lined up and then shot by an israeli "soldier".
[URL]http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24049855-2703,00.html[/URL]
Democracy is great, except if you're a Palestinian.
Re: Pesky Palestinians
on the other hand, killing innocent people is wrong unless you are palestinian.
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[quote=dig72;627727]A young Palestinian man unarmed, hands bound together behind his back, blinfolded, is then lined up and then shot by an israeli "soldier".
[URL]http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24049855-2703,00.html[/URL]
Democracy is great, except if you're a Palestinian.[/quote]
That IS democracy: the majority taking down the minority. This is the democracy you call great? Wierdo...
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^ I thought you crazy lolbertarians died off months ago with the ron paul wagon across the us political frontier...
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ron paul isn't in the libertarian party.... do you pay attention much?
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[quote=88Mariner;627914]ron paul isn't in the libertarian party.... do you pay attention much?[/quote]
He represented libertarian views but bitched because he wanted them under the guise of the republican party. Sorry to burst your lolbertarian bubble.
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[quote=Localizer;627989]He represented libertarian views but bitched because he wanted them under the guise of the republican party. Sorry to burst your lolbertarian bubble.[/quote] [IMG]http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:uTlvXhuYVKqYVM:http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/7/U/j/dem_party_seal.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/c/g/bush_guitar_seal.jpg[/IMG]
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[quote=Localizer;627989]He represented libertarian views but bitched because he wanted them under the guise of the republican party. Sorry to burst your lolbertarian bubble.[/quote]
Well yeah. Because the Republican Party is now run by a bunch of nanny-statists who refuse to deal with border security or immigration, who like to spread democracy at the end of a gun, and like to infringe upon civil liberties so long as it benefits thier president. They've come to represent more wars, more government, greater national debt, fewer liberties, no border, regulated trade, ad nauseum. (But see pre-Nixon Republicanism).
I take it you like McCain? Figures. No wonder you disapprove of 'lolbertarians'.
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[quote=88Mariner;628108]Well yeah. Because the Republican Party is now run by a bunch of nanny-statists who refuse to deal with border security or immigration, who like to spread democracy at the end of a gun, and like to infringe upon civil liberties so long as it benefits thier president. They've come to represent more wars, more government, greater national debt, fewer liberties, no border, regulated trade, ad nauseum. (But see pre-Nixon Republicanism).
I take it you like McCain? Figures. No wonder you disapprove of 'lolbertarians'.[/quote]
Yes, because I'm such a hardcore neocon. /sarcasm off
If I remember correctly, it was you and subterfuse who consistently supported this administration some time ago. You have very little room to speak.
The real reason I laugh at lolbertarians is because they've been sucked into a pseudophilosophy; abiding by the philosophies of the self-conflicted founding fathers and the man with the uber invisible hand, Adam Smith (another self-conflicted philosopher).
Re: Pesky Palestinians
the democrats have become borderline socialists, the republicans are so far right they have actually gone opposite of reagans republicanism in execution of government while trying to stress his ideas. sadly, the libertarian party is the only party that centralized, in favor of small gov't and realistic about executing thier plans. obama talks out of his ass with zero backup of how to implement any of his ideas. mccain is out of touch with youth. we are fucked. a neophyte senator who won his party's choice simply because 65% of this country hates the clintons nearly as much as the bush's. OR an entrenched senator who has serious lobbyist ties and shld have ran from president in 1980, not 2008. yeah, he has experience and can lead to a deree, but do we really want to move in this direction? not me.
both of candidates are trained monkeys who will say whatever they can to win with zero substance. think of the scene from my cousin vinny where pesci explauins the house of cards while the kids are in jail. they want to show a strong foundation, but there really isnt much to either of them, contrary to toasty and others' man crushes on the only option other than staying where we are. obama is a bum, mccain is a bum.
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as opposed to having no philosophy at all? I would settle for for the pseudophilosophy (whatever that means) of a few men who fought against the concept that people live by government privilege, than to have none whatsoever.
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I would like to see citizens stand up and proclaim responsibility for their own lives, for their choices and decisions. Life is hard. I know it. It has obstacles and setbacks. I completely understand feeling like a victim. But I don't accept it. We must have the courage to face the challenges, changes and opportunities life gives us. Striving to put back into the world as much energy as we take is in my view a worthwhile goal.
When you look at the beginnings of this nation it was individuals who made the decision to take responsibility for their lives and move forward even in the face of enormous obstacles.
I know everyone of us has the same ability within. Look for it. Find it. Life, in my opinion, is worth the effort.
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[quote=Lorn;628267]I would like to see citizens stand up and proclaim responsibility for their own lives, for their choices and decisions. Life is hard. I know it. It has obstacles and setbacks. I completely understand feeling like a victim. But I don't accept it. We must have the courage to face the challenges, changes and opportunities life gives us. Striving to put back into the world as much energy as we take is in my view a worthwhile goal.
When you look at the beginnings of this nation it was individuals who made the decision to take responsibility for their lives and move forward even in the face of enormous obstacles.
I know everyone of us has the same ability within. Look for it. Find it. Life, in my opinion, is worth the effort.[/quote]
honestly, the ONLY option to accomplish this is to not for obama or mccain. and in your local elections (state senators, assembly etc) vote independent all around. we had about 12 political parties when we formed this country and since WW2 we have 2. do we really trust the power of these states to only two groups, two options?> i dont.
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^I'm with ya on that.
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FYI, anyone see this??
[URL]http://www.adl.org/main_Arab_World/as_cartoons_candidates.htm[/URL]
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[quote=88Mariner;628251]as opposed to having no philosophy at all? I would settle for for the pseudophilosophy (whatever that means) of a few men who fought against the concept that people live by government privilege, than to have none whatsoever.[/quote]
Nope, as opposed to having a rational philosophy that exists in reality.
Pseudophilosophy isn't that hard to break down into its components. Try google.
Government privilage? Lolbertarianism is more than going against entitlements. It is the ousting of any public funding not defined by the constitution and not placed into the powers of congress. Yet, both Jefferson and Franklin supported federally subsidized education. In fact, Jefferson even conceded that by accident it was left out of the constitution. I mean, do you really know and understand the other side of the founding fathers and great economic philosophers that our nation idolizes (aside from Milton Friedman)? Madison might come close to your thoughts.
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just for you lolbertarians.[url]http://world.std.com/~mhuben/onelesson.html[/url]
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It was a non-lethal bullet so it just did a lot of pain and didnt kill him. He probably deserved that and much more.
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I stopped at this line:
"Government is the Great Satan. All Evil comes from Government, and all Good from the Market, according to the Ayatollah Rand. "
Rand was the most vicious opponent of lolbertarianism. I think, and agree, with Rand's determination that Lolbertarianism is philosophically unprincipled. I agree with you in that respect because, in its most abstract form, governments are necessary. Rand agrees with you, too.
[QUOTE]Government privilage? Lolbertarianism is more than going against entitlements. It is the ousting of any public funding not defined by the constitution and not placed into the powers of congress. [/QUOTE]
It will never ever get to that point. Which is why I would vote libertarian out of practicality, rather than hope that it would ever get to that point. Being that public educations has failed to educate and keep students on par with thier peers around the word, it should be open for discussion about how to improve the system.
[QUOTE]Yet, both Jefferson and Franklin supported federally subsidized education.[/QUOTE]
Jefferson had slaves and Franklin supported the Turkey to be the national symbol. I disagreed with both of them. They also supported subsidized education at a time when it was not only viable, but produced brilliant pupils as well. Not so much today.
[QUOTE]In fact, Jefferson even conceded that by accident it was left out of the constitution.[/QUOTE] I'd be interested in a citation of this. Not that I don't believe it to be true, but that so many versions of the constitution left it out.
[QUOTE]I mean, do you really know and understand the other side of the founding fathers and great economic philosophers that our nation idolizes (aside from Milton Friedman)? [/QUOTE] Yes I do, so long as your and mine opinion of great economic philosophers are mostly in agreeance.
[QUOTE] Madison might come close to your thoughts. [/QUOTE] Madison is my favourite President. He was a short stud with a lot of brains.
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[quote=88Mariner;628554]I stopped at this line:
"Government is the Great Satan. All Evil comes from Government, and all Good from the Market, according to the Ayatollah Rand. " [/quote[
It's good for a laugh.
[quote] Rand was the most vicious opponent of lolbertarianism. I think, and agree, with Rand's determination that Lolbertarianism is philosophically unprincipled. I agree with you in that respect because, in its most abstract form, governments are necessary. Rand agrees with you, too. [/quote]Rand agrees with the concept that individuals have rights and the government is there to protect individuals. Other than that, I'd say her philosophies run nearly, if not, parallel with libertarianism. Either way, it's good to see a libertarian know that governments are necessary for the stability of a society.
[quote] It will never ever get to that point. Which is why I would vote libertarian out of practicality, rather than hope that it would ever get to that point. Being that public educations has failed to educate and keep students on par with thier peers around the word, it should be open for discussion about how to improve the system. [/quote]Agreed
[quote] Jefferson had slaves and Franklin supported the Turkey to be the national symbol. I disagreed with both of them. They also supported subsidized education at a time when it was not only viable, but produced brilliant pupils as well. Not so much today. [/quote]I'm not so sure about your last statement. Jefferson's plan for a federally subsidized education was based off a pyramid principle: go through general education when you're younger, and be selected (if you were smart enough) to move on to high school and once again filtered onto college/university. On top of that, he was more interested in educating the public to prevent the government from going out of control and leading to tyranny -- hence his bill for a more general diffusion of knowledge.
[quote] I'd be interested in a citation of this. Not that I don't believe it to be true, but that so many versions of the constitution left it out. [/quote]It's in his 1802 state of the union of address which I believe you can find either from u of chicago website or the yale website.
[quote] Yes I do, so long as your and mine opinion of great economic philosophers are mostly in agreeance. [/quote] Finally, a lolbertarian with some space for reasonability.
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Sometimes people use the word Libertarian for others to readily understand where one is coming from without more explanation. My previous points, I hope, divulge my platform.
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[quote=ganjamo;628504][quote]It was a non-lethal bullet[/quote]
Rubber coated bullets can and have killed many in the past. Don't believe me? Try shooting one of these "non leathal" bullets at your head and see what happens. :p
[quote]so it just did a lot of pain and didnt kill him[/quote]
You're ok with torture, just as long as your family members aren't on the recieving end, yeah?
[quote]He probably deserved that and much more[/quote]
Those Palestinians are just just screaming for it. :what
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[quote=ganjamo;628504]It was a non-lethal bullet so it just did a lot of pain and didnt kill him. He probably deserved that and much more.[/quote]
what kinda fuckin comment was that?
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those r really good ! haha ... antisemetic in its best !
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[quote=dig72;628589]
Rubber coated bullets can and have killed many in the past. Don't believe me? Try shooting one of these "non leathal" bullets at your head and see what happens. :p
You're ok with torture, just as long as your family members aren't on the recieving end, yeah? [/quote]
Thats why they shot him in the leg. I got family that has been a victim of suicide attacks and a plastic bullet in the leg is 1% of what that guy PROBABLY deserved. We dont know what he did to deserve that and its not really smart to judge without the real facts. What if that guy threw a rock and it hit that soldiers friend in the face or something similar...
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[quote=ganjamo;629203]Thats why they shot him in the leg. I got family that has been a victim of suicide attacks and a plastic bullet in the leg is 1% of what that guy PROBABLY deserved. We dont know what he did to deserve that and its not really smart to judge without the real facts. What if that guy threw a rock and it hit that soldiers friend in the face or something similar...[/quote]
Excuses, excuses and more excuses.
Do you honestly believe that the Israeli "soldiers" would have reacted the same way to an Israeli/jewish citizen?
These disgraceful actions committed in your name will do nothing except create more hate and will further rot away at your country from the inside.
This is what occupation does.
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We dont even know if the guy that got shot was even a palestinian...
Its a very hard situation to handle and there will always be this sort of discussion we are having right here. I was lucky not to be born in there and i do feel sorry for them but there's nothing i can do about it.
i might sound like an ass%#^$% but there are always two sides in a coin, some are lucky and some are not. Just deal with it.
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[quote=ganjamo;629236][QUOTE]We dont even know if the guy that got shot was even a palestinian...[/QUOTE]
It doesn't matter who it was. You don't go shooting people who are blindfolded and hands bound behind their backs.
[QUOTE] Its a very hard situation to handle and there will always be this sort of discussion we are having right here. [/QUOTE]
That's the beauty of forums such as these.
[QUOTE]I was lucky not to be born in there and i do feel sorry for them but there's nothing i can do about it.[/QUOTE]
You can start by not making excuses for these disgraceful acts.
[QUOTE]i might sound like an ass%#^$% but there are always two sides in a coin, some are lucky and some are not.[/QUOTE]
Well aren't you just one of the lucky ones.
You lucky person you.
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[QUOTE]Do you honestly believe that the Israeli "soldiers" would have reacted the same way to an Israeli/jewish citizen?[/QUOTE]
Uh, no offense, but american cops do this type of stuff all the time to the people they serve and protect....
i wouldn't put it past the thought...
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^ yeah it looks like life is only fair in Australia hehe. Everywhere else its not.
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[quote=88Mariner;629297]Uh, no offense, but american cops do this type of stuff all the time to the people they serve and protect....
i wouldn't put it past the thought...[/quote]
If this is the case then I really do feel sorry for the American citizens. As one person put it, "Governments should be afraid of the people and the not the othere way round".
A society that allows this shit to happen without addressing/fighting against it is a doomed society imo.
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[quote=ganjamo;629356]^ yeah it looks like life is only fair in Australia hehe. Everywhere else its not.[/quote]
If you say so. :what