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[ms] · Est. May 2002

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Forums / Politics

Offshore Drilling

99 durable postsStarted 2008-06-18Latest 2010-06-06
#55769Post 1 of 99

Seems like whether or not we lift the ban on offshore drilling is the issue of the day. What are people's thoughts? Most every analyst I've seen agrees that it isn't going to have a short-term impact on oil production/prices, that we're probably looking 5-10 years into the future before we see any effect, but that doesn't necessarily mean it isn't worthwhile.

I kinda go back and forth on it. We're never going to be completely weaned off of oil, so the less we have to rely upon folks in the mideast to supply it, the better off we are. On the other hand, I think some proponents of the offshore drilling view it as the primary component of our energy policy, which seems awfully short-sighted. Global demand is increasing, and by the time we get our production ramped up, I question whether it will have much impact in the bigger picture -- prices will still be sky-high.

More importantly, though, it takes our eye off the bigger need to start finding other ways to create energy here at home. Bush acknowledged a while back that our country is addicted to oil. Well, you don't cure addiction to oil by manufacturing more oil. More oil might serve as a methodone clinic of sorts for our addiction, but eventually, we've got to get our jones some other way.

#1035269Post 2 of 99

Re: Offshore Drilling

i say drill. i believe it would do so much more than help with gas prices. our economy is much better off being less dependent on the middle east. we are supposedly sitting on the largest sum of oil known in the world. to echo your sentiments, though, i agree that it may cause a delay in creating other means of energy.

the one thing that really concerns me is the structural integrity of the earth and it's crust. if you leave a huge hole in it from sucking up oil, will the infrastructure ever give away? there haven't been any catastrophic cases yet, but if there ever were..........

#1035273Post 3 of 99

Re: Offshore Drilling

shoulda been done a long time ago. but a drunk captain on an exxon ship ..........

its a damn shame that our country is not capitolly investing in alternatives. honestly, there are some really efficient methods out there, primarily farming kinetic energy off ocean waves, sea based solar power, etc. a simple capitol investment now is only helping the long term.

#1035275Post 4 of 99

Re: Offshore Drilling

[QUOTE=Garrick;614887]

the one thing that really concerns me is the structural integrity of the earth and it's crust. if you leave a huge hole in it from sucking up oil, will the infrastructure ever give away? there haven't been any catastrophic cases yet, but if there ever were..........[/QUOTE]

seriously? i could write long response to this explaining why that isn't even remotely possible, but i'll just sum it up with this: the earth's crust already has way more holes in it that drilling is going to create- it's called the ring of fire.

#1035276Post 5 of 99

Re: Offshore Drilling

^ yeah seriously.. i've never asked the question and i'm not a scientist! you cleared in up for me. i really have no more concerns so lets get the fuck out there and drill. and lets stop worrying about the polar bear too while we're at it and strike up some oil in alaska too, ffs.

ring of fire! now i know... that is huge!

[IMG]http://whyfiles.org/094quake/images/ring_of_fire.gif[/IMG]

#1035278Post 6 of 99

Re: Offshore Drilling

just another political stunt to get people elected.

problem is, the morons of the country will eat it up and elect the person that they feel will save them money.

and yea, i have heard that this will not have any impact for another 5+ years... but people dont listen to that.

#1035282Post 7 of 99

Re: Offshore Drilling

it WONT have any impact in the next 10 years let alone the next 5. Offshore projects are huge, complex, and exceptionally long undertakings. I work with several large offshore fields worldwide (not going to say which ones). From the time they find a good prospect, drill it, complete it, build the rig, and get all the infrastructure set up is 10-20 years. That means if they let every state have a free-for-all on offshore drilling (which would cause huge inflation in an already tight offshore market), they wouldn't be producing jack shit for a decade.

this is moron politicians who have no clue what the hell they're talking about pretending they do.

having said that...yes, please do open up states drilling. my company will be in there like white on rice :)

#1035283Post 8 of 99

Re: Offshore Drilling

this is not [i]just[/i] a political stunt to get elected. this is a genuine issue.

#1035284Post 9 of 99

Re: Offshore Drilling

I would support opening up drilling offshore or on land. The US is a huge country with vast untapped resources.

#1035295Post 10 of 99

Re: Offshore Drilling

what are you guys talking about? of course it will have a big impact, and an immediate one to be exact. it will provide another source of oil and because the market will be aware of another source coming up, it will decrease prices even now or in the immediate future.

#1035305Post 11 of 99

Re: Offshore Drilling

[QUOTE=shosh;614917]what are you guys talking about? of course it will have a big impact, and an immediate one to be exact. it will provide another source of oil and because the market will be aware of another source coming up, it will decrease prices even now or in the immediate future.[/QUOTE]

You do understand that there's a lag between declaring, "I'm a-gonna drill for oil!!!" and actually obtaining oil, right? A significant lag? :shock:

#1035308Post 12 of 99

Re: Offshore Drilling

We can't keep saying, "it won't help us now, it'll take 10 years" etc.

If Bill Clinton had allowed offshore drilling, we'd be seeing the benefits of it right about now, which would be excellent timing given the current state of affairs.

I'm eleventybillion percent for alternative energy sources, but we are never going to be completely off of oil as mentioned above- time to tap our own resources rather than going to the middle east for it.

It would be nice if there was some kind of condition to offshore drilling like- every dollar spent drilling offshore must be matched for renewable energy research or something. pipe dream, i know.

#1035330Post 13 of 99

Re: Offshore Drilling

[quote=Jenks;614933]We can't keep saying, "it won't help us now, it'll take 10 years" etc.

If ANYONE had allowed offshore drilling, we'd be seeing the benefits of it right about now, which would be excellent timing given the current state of affairs.

It would be nice if there was some kind of condition to offshore drilling like- every dollar spent drilling offshore must be matched for renewable energy research or something. pipe dream, i know.[/quote]

EXACTLY. well put, if we keep putting it off, we will never see the benefit. if we do it now, the benifit will come sooner as opposed to NEVER. spend the fucking money now, and create a LONG TERM solution or support. i.e. capitol re-investment

like the manufacturing company that bit the bullet and spent its reserves to purchase a few new machines, that while expensive and not cost effective today, generate revenue for years and years.

i have been extremely interested in the kinetic energy ideas floating around, particularly the city sidewalks and roads, the ocean waves, wind farms on oceans.

and honestly, its a bit star trek now, but who knows in 5-10 years, but building a solar power farm in space is quite viable. 24 hours of energy, convertable to microwave, and then transportable.

#1035360Post 14 of 99

Re: Offshore Drilling

and garrick. oil isn't just sitting in a big cavern down there when they drill.

its under large pressures and trapped between the rocks themselves in tiny pores. the oil flows through rock based on its porosity and permiability. the size of the reservoir is just its volume times the porosity times the permiability (and some constants).

when they pump the oil out, other fluids rush in to replace the oil (can be water or gas). now there are often injection wells that inject fluids or C02 to increase production by forcing the oil in the direction they want.

#1035377Post 15 of 99

Re: Offshore Drilling

[MS] = continuing education. 8)

#1035392Post 16 of 99

Re: Offshore Drilling

[URL]http://seekingalpha.com/article/53815-ocean-power-technologies-wave-of-the-future[/URL]

#1035421Post 17 of 99

Re: Offshore Drilling

i agree that this issue is important as a whole..

BUT, all i am saying is that this is an issue only because the politicians see it as a way to appeal to people that have no idea what goes on behind the idea, to gain votes and get elected.

i find it funny how bush and mccain have been against offshore drilling throughout their whole careers... to, out of the blue, say its an important issue and demand that it be done... politics at its finest right there.

#1035477Post 18 of 99

Re: Offshore Drilling

nobody predicted the predicament we're in now though i don't think... at least not this bad. so at least now some politicians are realizing the need and opportunity. unfortunately, tons still oppose it.........

#1035570Post 19 of 99

Re: Offshore Drilling

big government at its best:

[URL]http://www.foxnews.com/urgent_queue/printer-friendly-story.html#a54ef44,2008-06-18[/URL]

#1035582Post 20 of 99

Re: Offshore Drilling

[quote=Garrick;615234]big government at its best:

[URL]http://www.foxnews.com/urgent_queue/printer-friendly-story.html#a54ef44,2008-06-18[/URL][/quote]

yeah. it's on a new thread. i post. yesterday.

#1035632Post 21 of 99

Re: Offshore Drilling

OIL PRICES: '08’S DEFINING ISSUE

By DICK MORRIS

Published on TheHill.com on June 17, 2008.

[QUOTE]Gas prices are the first important issue in the 2008 elections. But both parties have been pathetic in their solutions and, one suspects, in their understanding of what is going on.

Democrats call for windfall profits taxes. Bad idea. How can you get oil companies to explore and drill if you tax away their profits? Republicans focus on a gas tax “holiday,” an 18-cent palliative to gas prices that now top $4.50.

Fadel Gheit, managing director of oil and gas research for Oppenheimer and Co., and Jim Norman, author of the book The Oil Card, coming out next month, say that speculation is responsible for a huge part of the run-up in prices.

The growing demand for oil by India and China and the instability of oil supplies certainly account for much of the increase. But the recent spike, they say, is equally due to the weakness of the dollar and massive speculation.

They argue that oil prices are, indeed, determined by supply and demand — not only the supply and demand for oil, but also the supply and demand for oil futures. (Oil futures are a commitment to buy 1,000 barrels of oil at a certain date at a certain price.)

Formerly, most of the investments in oil futures came from energy companies. The federal Commodities Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) sharply limited investments by those outside the business, to prevent precisely the kind of speculation now gripping the market.

But when the stock market slowed down in 2000–2002, outside investors decided to speculate in oil futures.

The new players were institutional investors like corporate and government pension funds, sovereign wealth funds, university endowments and other investors, guided by brokerage firms like Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs.

To avoid the CFTC caps, these investors moved their operations to London, setting up the International Commodities Exchange. Now they can buy all the oil futures they want.

Michael W. Masters, of Masters Capital Management, told Congress that the volume of investment in commodities futures soared from $13 billion at the end of 2003 to $260 billion by March of 2008.

After a while, the CFTC rescinded its limits on how much speculators could buy as long as they went through special “swap” desks at the major brokerage houses.

You can buy oil futures for only 5 percent down on margin, a bargain considering the 50 percent margin requirement for stock market equity investments. Because the margin requirement on oil futures rises as the due date approaches, few investors actually end up buying the oil; they just roll over their investments.

So the willingness of sellers to unload their oil futures, and of buyers to acquire them, sets up its own market of supply and demand that has more to do with determining the actual price of oil than even the global demand and supply for the product itself.

On May 20 of this year, Masters told Congress: “Commodities futures prices are the benchmark for the prices of actual physical commodities, so when index speculators drive futures prices higher, the effects are felt immediately in spot prices and the real economy. So there is a direct link between commodities futures prices and the prices your constituents are paying for essential goods.”

Gheit and Norman suggest that the CFTC regulate the domestic oil futures market (NYMEX) and the participation of U.S. companies in the ICE, restoring the caps on the amount of oil futures speculators can buy. Gheit also urges raising margin requirements for them.

Both worry that the oil futures bubble is going to burst and cost a lot of investors — particularly pension funds who channel their investments through the swap desks of the brokerage houses. We don’t need another sub-prime or savings-and-loan crisis on our hands right now.

The Senate recently tried to force CFTC regulation of all commodities speculators, but the bill was loaded down with a windfall profits tax, so the Republicans killed it.

John McCain needs to get with this program. In his town hall meeting in New York City last Thursday night, he attacked speculators for driving up oil prices but didn’t propose remedies or really explain the problem.

Americans will pay close attention if he does. For McCain, this is the issue and now is the time to use it. [/QUOTE]

#1035636Post 22 of 99

Re: Offshore Drilling

John McCain couldn't explain the problem of speculators if he tried. you need a phd in finance to wrap your head around some of it, and he isn't even close.

#1035690Post 23 of 99

Re: Offshore Drilling

MCCAIN SCORES WITH OFFSHORE DRILLING PROPOSAL

By DICK MORRIS & EILEEN MCGANN

June 18, 2008.

[QUOTE]John McCain has drawn first blood in the political debate following Barack Obama's victory in the primaries. His call yesterday for offshore oil drilling — and Bush's decision to press the issue in Congress - puts the Democrats in the position of advocating the wear-your-sweater policies that made Jimmy Carter unpopular.

With gas prices nearing $5, all of the previous shibboleths need to be discarded. Where once voters in swing states like Florida opposed offshore drilling, the high gas prices are prompting them to reconsider. McCain's argument that even hurricane Katrina did not cause any oil spills from the offshore rigs in the Gulf of Mexico certainly will go far to allay the fears of the average voter.

For decades, Americans have dragged their feet when it comes to switching their cars, leaving their SUVs at home, and backing alternative energy development and new oil drilling. But the recent shock of a massive surge in oil and gasoline prices has awakened the nation from its complaisance. The soaring prices are the equivalent of Pearl Harbor in jolting us out of our trance when it comes to energy.

Suddenly, everything is on the table. Offshore drilling, Alaska drilling, nuclear power, wind, solar, flex-fuel cars, plug-in cars are all increasingly attractive options and John McCain seems alive to the need to go there while Obama is strangely passive. During the Democratic primary, he opposed a gas tax holiday and continues to be against offshore and Alaska drilling and squishy on nuclear power. That leaves turning down your thermostat and walking to work as the Democratic policies.

McCain has also been ratcheting up his attacks on oil speculators. With the total value of trades in oil futures soaring from $13 billion in 2003 to $260 billion today, it is increasingly clear that it is not the supply and demand for oil which is, alone, driving up the price, but it is the supply and demand for oil futures which is stoking the upward movement.

The Saudis have made a fatal mistake in not forcing down the price of oil. We could have gone for decades as their hostage, letting their control over our oil supplies choke us while enriching them. But they got greedy and let the price skyrocket. The sudden shock which has sent America reeling is just the stimulus we need for a massive movement away from imported oil and toward new types of cars.

The political will for major change in our energy policy is now here and those, like Obama, who don't get it need to rethink their positions. To quote FDR, “this great nation calls for action and action now” on the energy issue. What has been a back-burner problem now has moved onto center stage and McCain has put himself in the forefront.

The Democratic ambivalence stems from liberal concerns about climate change. The Party basically doesn't believe in carbon based energy and, therefore, opposes oil exploration. That's why Obama pushes the windfall profits tax on oil companies - a step that tells them “you drill, you find oil, and we'll take away your profits.” But Americans have their priorities in order: more oil, more drilling AND alternative energy sources, flex-fuel cars, plug in vehicles and nuclear power.

With his willingness to respond to the gas price crisis with bold measures, McCain shows himself to be a pragmatist while Obama comes off as an ideologue to puts climate change ahead of making it possible for the average American to get to work.

Of course, the high price of gas makes it inevitable that the US will lead the world in fighting climate change. With $5 gas, Americans will switch en masse to cars that burn less gasoline. Already we have cut our oil consumption by 500,000 barrels a day in the past year (about a 3% cut). The move away from oil will be exponential from here on out, dooming radical Islam and reversing climate change at the same time. But while we are getting new cars, we need more oil and McCain has flanked Obama on this issue. Big time.[/QUOTE]

#1035692Post 24 of 99

Re: Offshore Drilling

[quote=Garrick;614895]^ yeah seriously.. i've never asked the question and i'm not a scientist! you cleared in up for me. i really have no more concerns so lets get the fuck out there and drill. and lets stop worrying about the polar bear too while we're at it and strike up some oil in alaska too, ffs.

ring of fire! now i know... that is huge!

[IMG]http://whyfiles.org/094quake/images/ring_of_fire.gif[/IMG][/quote]

I had a ring of fire before, but I guess thai food will do that sometimes

#1049528Post 25 of 99

Re: Offshore Drilling

so president bush lifted the offshore oil drilling ban yesterday amongst a great attitude shift lately that we should begin drilling offshore... look at what our great congressional speaker has to say about it:

[URL]http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=prnw.20080714.DC27560&show_article=1[/URL]

am i missing something here? is she really this much of a bigot? seriously... can someone explain to me where she has a legitimate argument? i am clearly missing it.

#1049538Post 26 of 99

Re: Offshore Drilling

i hope that woman dies. quickly and painfully.

under no interpretation did her quotes make any sense. i award her no points. may zeus have mercy on her soul.

she is the political version of christocrats. making no sense is the name of the game.

#1049563Post 27 of 99

Re: Offshore Drilling

I can't get over Bush!! I feel like I'm always talking about this loser because he constantly makes the wrong decision.

Do you notice nobody is talking about the environmental impact of doing what he proposed?? All he is doing is trying to make more money for his oil buddies before he gets punted out of the White House..

We aren't running out of oil so don't let anybody tell you otherwise. Here is an article from Jan 2008..

[URL]http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/natural_resources/article3207311.ece[/URL]

What is happening is the oil companies are drilling us right in the ass because they can with a government like this not even trying to prevent them..

#1049569Post 28 of 99

Re: Offshore Drilling

^ are you kidding me? it isn't about running out of oil man. it is about becoming less dependent on foreign energy from the crazy middle east, helping our US economy and eventually lowering/stabilizing the prices of gas.

not to mention we are talking about offshore oil drilling, so the precious polar bears that everyone thinks are endangered won't be harmed. if something catastrophic happens, it happens. but it would be due to negligence. outside of the exxon oil tanker driven by a drunken [I]negligent [/I]captain there have not been any catastrophic events due to oil drilling offshore. it is safe and does not harm the environment.

and please don't start with the oil company controlling everything bullshit. do you knw what a profit margin is? there is a huge difference between profit and profit margin. the oil companies are hurting just like we are. lord knows with the price of oil today, they aren't making a lot of money. if they can drill for oil, they stand to make some profit. so sue them! they are a freakin business and businesses try to make money.

#1049578Post 29 of 99

Re: Offshore Drilling

[QUOTE=Garrick;624434]

am i missing something here? is she really this much of a bigot? seriously... can someone explain to me where she has a legitimate argument? i am clearly missing it.[/QUOTE]

I'm not understanding the bigot comment at all. I'm wondering if I'm even looking at the right article, because while there might be legitimate reasons to disagree with what she's saying, I don't see what this has to do with bigotry. Seriously. :NotMe:

I completely disagree about releasing oil from the strategic reserve. We're paying more than we'd like at the pump, but that's not going to change any time soon, tapping that reserve isn't going to change anything on that front anyway, and that's just not what it's for. We need to be in serious shit before we start tapping that. It's a "strategic" reserve, not an "I'd like to drive oil prices down for a week or so" reserve or a "kneejerk reaction" reserve.

One thing with offshore drilling, though. People act as if this drilling will start, and each of us in the US is going to get a check. Obviously not the case, and if global demand continues to rise while we ramp up production offshore, the impact is going to be negligible. Doesn't necessarily mean we shouldn't do it, but we've got to figure out a bigger solution to the problem than just drilling for more oil...

#1049580Post 30 of 99

Re: Offshore Drilling

bigot = a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices.

sounds like pelosi to me....

#1049581Post 31 of 99

Re: Offshore Drilling

[quote=toasty;624486] if global demand continues to rise while we ramp up production offshore, the impact is going to be negligible. Doesn't necessarily mean we shouldn't do it, but we've got to figure out a bigger solution to the problem than just drilling for more oil...[/quote]

i agree 100% other alternatives should be researched and put to good use. like you said, oil is still important though. will be for some time, me thinks.

#1049585Post 32 of 99

Re: Offshore Drilling

[URL]http://www.newsweek.com/id/146161[/URL]

[URL]http://www.newsweek.com/id/146161[/URL]

[URL]http://www.newsweek.com/id/146161[/URL]

[URL]http://www.newsweek.com/id/146161[/URL]

read dat,

#1049592Post 33 of 99

Re: Offshore Drilling

Toasty, you're right. but you know what? They were saying that 6 years ago, too. 6 years ago, They were saying it would take 6 years for it to be worth while. And he were are, having done nothing. And so, by continually saying "it's going to take to long" is not a legitmate argument anymore. Particularly not when we need to focus on becoming more independent ourselves and particularly when shipping oil across seas is givng the alley-oop to the greatest environmental disasters we could cause just short of nuclear meltdowns.

I completely agree with you on the strategic reserves. If our tax money should go to anything, it should be about building more reserves and buying more oil at this price.

Runningman....i recommend sticking to reading books. economic books.

#1049600Post 34 of 99

Re: Offshore Drilling

im standing at my desk clapping.

[quote=Garrick;624477]^ are you kidding me? it isn't about running out of oil man. it is about becoming less dependent on foreign energy from the crazy middle east, helping our US economy and eventually lowering/stabilizing the prices of gas.

not to mention we are talking about offshore oil drilling, so the precious polar bears that everyone thinks are endangered won't be harmed. if something catastrophic happens, it happens. but it would be due to negligence. outside of the exxon oil tanker driven by a drunken [I]negligent [/I]captain there have not been any catastrophic events due to oil drilling offshore. it is safe and does not harm the environment.

and please don't start with the oil company controlling everything bullshit. do you knw what a profit margin is? there is a huge difference between profit and profit margin. the oil companies are hurting just like we are. lord knows with the price of oil today, they aren't making a lot of money. if they can drill for oil, they stand to make some profit. so sue them! they are a freakin business and businesses try to make money.[/quote]

#1049610Post 35 of 99

Re: Offshore Drilling

Garrick: don't forget, the exxon was importing oil from the middle east at the time. silly how they want us to depend on ..er...foreign oil.

if you hate oil companies, i would think domestic drilling is the way to go...

#1049617Post 36 of 99

Re: Offshore Drilling

if you hate oil companies, stop driving

work locally, drink locally, RIDE A BIKE, carpool, etc.

and vote for bob barr.

#1049634Post 37 of 99

Re: Offshore Drilling

[QUOTE=88Mariner;624501]Toasty, you're right. but you know what? They were saying that 6 years ago, too. 6 years ago, They were saying it would take 6 years for it to be worth while. And he were are, having done nothing. And so, by continually saying "it's going to take to long" is not a legitmate argument anymore. [/QUOTE]

You're not hearing me. I'm not saying "Let's not drill for oil." I'm saying that drilling for oil is not the answer to the bigger, ever growing problem -- we should be drilling where it makes sense to drill domestically, but it seems like a lot of people think that if only we could start drilling here, we'd all be living in a panacea and all of our problems would be whisked away, that drilling for domestic oil is the sole answer. That's enormously short-sighted, IMO. Drilling for oil has to be a part of a larger strategy to ween ourselves off of oil and onto alternative sources of energy.

My biggest fear with increased domestic drilling, off-shore or otherwise, is that it will lead us to be complacent as it pertains to other energy sources that will make us less reliant upon the most unstable part of the world. In the big picture, it's a stop-gap measure, not the solution.

#1049636Post 38 of 99

Re: Offshore Drilling

of course it's not the end-all solution. the end-all solution is free energy.

but at least you agree we should start drilling domestically. even if it's not the sole solution to the greater problem, it is necessary to solve the greater problem. there are other necessary things to do, but saying drilling domestically is one of them and yet saying we shouldn't be drilling domestically is very confusing to me.

you think people are complacent about oil? people are always going to be complacent about important issues until it directly affects them. And, with you suggesting that domestic drilling will have a negligible effect, combined with the fact that this will keep people focused and active on the issue, i'm not seeing where domestic drilling will cause complacency.

#1049671Post 39 of 99

Re: Offshore Drilling

[QUOTE=88Mariner;624553]... but saying drilling domestically is one of them and yet saying we shouldn't be drilling domestically is very confusing to me. [/QUOTE]

Is that directed at me? I looked back through the thread as a sanity check, and I don't see anywhere where I said that we shouldn't be drilling domestically. What I said is that that alone isn't going to fix the problem.

[QUOTE=88Mariner;624553] you think people are complacent about oil? people are always going to be complacent about important issues until it directly affects them. And, with you suggesting that domestic drilling will have a negligible effect, combined with the fact that this will keep people focused and active on the issue, i'm not seeing where domestic drilling will cause complacency.[/QUOTE]

I don't think people are complacent now, no, but right now we're under some serious pressure to do something to help our current situation as the price of everything goes up on a daily basis, literally. Worst thing that could happen, IMO, would be that we start doing off-shore drilling tomorrow, we see a modest drop in oil prices to some number that we would have found slap-yo-momma offensive 1 year ago, everyone starts high-fiving and stops trying to come up with a long-term solution, and then we find ourselves even more fucked than we are today when demand catches up in a year or so and we're out of options.

I don't want to lose the sense of urgency that we have now.

#1049679Post 40 of 99

Re: Offshore Drilling

well, if it's more of an urgency that you need, my i recommend that we stop importing oil.

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