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Why is Bush Helping the Saudis build Nukes?

43 durable postsStarted 2008-06-10Latest 2008-06-12
#55408Post 1 of 43

[QUOTE] [B]Why Is Bush Helping Saudi Arabia Build Nukes?[/B]

By [B]EDWARD J. MARKEY[/B] [I][SIZE=2][COLOR=#666666]June 10, 2008[/COLOR][/SIZE][/I]

Here's a quick geopolitical quiz: What country is three times the size of Texas and has more than 300 days of blazing sun a year? What country has the world's largest oil reserves resting below miles upon miles of sand? And what country is being given nuclear power, not solar, by President George W. Bush, even when the mere assumption of nuclear possession in its region has been known to provoke pre-emptive air strikes, even wars?

If you answered Saudi Arabia to all of these questions, you're right.

Last month, while the American people were becoming the personal ATMs of the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice was in Saudi Arabia signing away an even more valuable gift: nuclear technology. In a ceremony little-noticed in this country, Ms. Rice volunteered the U.S. to assist Saudi Arabia in developing nuclear reactors, training nuclear engineers, and constructing nuclear infrastructure. While oil breaks records at $130 per barrel or more, the American consumer is footing the bill for Saudi Arabia's nuclear ambitions.

Saudi Arabia has poured money into developing its vast reserves of natural gas for domestic electricity production. It continues to invest in a national gas transportation pipeline and stepped-up exploration, building a solid foundation for domestic energy production that could meet its electricity needs for many decades. Nuclear energy, on the other hand, would require enormous investments in new infrastructure by a country with zero expertise in this complex technology.

Have Ms. Rice, Mr. Bush or Saudi leaders looked skyward? The Saudi desert is under almost constant sunshine. If Mr. Bush wanted to help his friends in Riyadh diversify their energy portfolio, he should have offered solar panels, not nuclear plants. Saudi Arabia's interest in nuclear technology can only be explained by the dangerous politics of the Middle East. Saudi Arabia, a champion and kingpin of the Sunni Arab world, is deeply threatened by the rise of Shiite-ruled Iran.

The two countries watch each other warily over the waters of the Persian Gulf, buying arms and waging war by proxy in Lebanon and Iraq. An Iranian nuclear weapon would radically alter the region's balance of power, and could prove to be the match that lights the tinderbox. By signing this agreement with the U.S., Saudi Arabia is warning Iran that two can play the nuclear game.

In 2004, Vice President Dick Cheney said, "[Iran is] already sitting on an awful lot of oil and gas. No one can figure why they need nuclear, as well, to generate energy." Mr. Cheney got it right about Iran. But a potential Saudi nuclear program is just as suspicious. For a country with so much oil, gas and solar potential, importing expensive and dangerous nuclear power makes no economic sense.

The Bush administration argues that Saudi Arabia can not be compared to Iran, because Riyadh said it won't develop uranium enrichment or spent-fuel reprocessing, the two most dangerous nuclear technologies. At a recent hearing before my Select Committee on Energy Independence and Global Warming, Secretary of Energy Samuel Bodman shrugged off concerns about potential Saudi misuse of nuclear assistance for a weapons program, saying simply: "I presume that the president has a good deal of confidence in the King and in the leadership of Saudi Arabia."

That's not good enough. We would do well to remember that it was the U.S. who provided the original nuclear assistance to Iran under the Atoms for Peace program, before Iran's monarch was overthrown in the 1979 Islamic Revolution. Such an uprising in Saudi Arabia today could be at least as damaging to U.S. security.

We've long known that America's addiction to oil pays for the spread of extremism. If this Bush nuclear deal moves forward, Saudi Arabia's petrodollars could flow to the dangerous expansion of nuclear technologies in the most volatile region of the world.

While the scorching Saudi Arabian sun heats sand dunes instead of powering photovoltaic panels, millions of Americans will fork over $4 a gallon without realizing that their gas tank is fueling a nascent nuclear arms race. [/QUOTE]

god. fucking. damnit.

Not only do the Saudis have no need for nuclear power, it seems quite unwise to feed another Middle Eastern state's nuclear ambitions. But, hey, they're our friends, right?

#1033088Post 2 of 43

Re: Why is Bush Helping the Saudis build Nukes?

link + source?

not disputing, just want to bookmark. thanks

#1033094Post 3 of 43

Re: Why is Bush Helping the Saudis build Nukes?

Wall Street Journal [URL]http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121305642257659301.html?mod=opinion_main_commentaries[/URL]

#1033096Post 4 of 43

Re: Why is Bush Helping the Saudis build Nukes?

bush only cares about one thing.... Money.

he has been exploiting out reliance on oil for all of his presidency and now that oil prices have gone up... he all of a sudden makes remarks (finally) that we need to stop our reliance on oil.

he should have made this stance back in 2001 but nothing has been done about other sources of energy throughout his whole 7 years thus far. have to thank the japanese for forcing it on us.

it is up in the air if a democrat or a repub will become president next year. oil prices going up in his last term coincidence? i think not.

#1033107Post 5 of 43

Re: Why is Bush Helping the Saudis build Nukes?

^ yeah. you know why? b/c people think the government will get stuff done.

private businesses have time and again proven themselves to be at the forefront of alternative technology: not the government.

the more we make energy solutions the business of the government, the longer it will take to see such a solution.

#1033109Post 6 of 43

Re: Why is Bush Helping the Saudis build Nukes?

^^^ agreed, whoever is in power will look first and foremost to do things in their own interest, and then if there is any room in the interest of the country. this can apply for anyone, anywhere

#1033111Post 7 of 43

Re: Why is Bush Helping the Saudis build Nukes?

^ then why support john mccain?

#1033124Post 8 of 43

Re: Why is Bush Helping the Saudis build Nukes?

[quote=88Mariner;612409]^ then why support john mccain?[/quote]

who else would i support? obama? im for ron paul, but he doesnt have a chance...

#1033129Post 9 of 43

Re: Why is Bush Helping the Saudis build Nukes?

no he doesn't. but don't sacrifice your principles. voting for john mccain will enable the GOP to keep moving left, and shedding off thier layers of conservatism...whatever layers they have left.

I've actualy never met a ron paul supporter who would even consider voting mccain. Hell, paul himself seemed to be in some support of Obama in an interview i saw the other day....

#1033135Post 10 of 43

Re: Why is Bush Helping the Saudis build Nukes?

[quote=88Mariner;612428]no he doesn't. but don't sacrifice your principles. voting for john mccain will enable the GOP to keep moving left, and shedding off thier layers of conservatism...whatever layers they have left.

I've actualy never met a ron paul supporter who would even consider voting mccain. Hell, paul himself seemed to be in some support of Obama in an interview i saw the other day....[/quote]

i actually dont think bob barr is too bad, but i dont see him having a chance. i agree with what you are saying about mccain, but i really dont want to see obama take office.

going back to the original topic, i think its ridiculous we are helping one of the most oil rich countries with energy solutions...

#1033190Post 11 of 43

Re: Why is Bush Helping the Saudis build Nukes?

[quote=shosh;612434]i really dont want to see obama take office.[/quote]

why?

i hate it when people make such strong statements without giving any reasons or examples.

#1033193Post 12 of 43

Re: Why is Bush Helping the Saudis build Nukes?

sorry, I had given some of my reasons in a bunch of other threads but i dont mind reiterating them:

  • dont agree with his views on war. i think its very pussy like that he wants to go and sit down and have talks with terrorists, etc. im not saying we should invade every country, but what would have happened if we sat down and had a nice talk with Hitler.
  • dont agree with his views on guns. 2nd amendment doesnt give us the right to bear arms. the wording states that our right to bear arms should not be infringed upon
  • i do not favor the fact that he was backing rev wright for 20 years and only now that it is not favoring his campaign he denounced his former mentor, best friend, etc and resigned from the church
  • i do not favor the way his wife, possible first lady, talked about the USA
  • i dont think he has enough experience to show us what he can do. so far he hasnt accomplished much so for me it is all talk

these are just a few things, but they are some that i feel very very strongly about.

#1033199Post 13 of 43

Re: Why is Bush Helping the Saudis build Nukes?

:lol:

#1033201Post 14 of 43

Re: Why is Bush Helping the Saudis build Nukes?

: [QUOTE]- dont agree with his views on war. i think its very pussy like that he wants to go and sit down and have talks with terrorists, etc. im not saying we should invade every country, but what would have happened if we sat down and had a nice talk with Hitler. [/QUOTE]

  • that's a very leftist stance you take. President Wilson, a democrat, would be smiling in his grave if he read that. Conversely, Reagan talked with the Soviet Union (who posed such a greater threat to us that it's not even up for discussion), Nixon went to China, et al. Hell, Nixon was elected to end Vietnam. Again, talking is a conservative principle...acting without dialogue...not so much.

if you consider that McCain's only platform is to wage more wars, as the "war" president he will be...you begin to wonder if the guy even has a drop of...er..goldwater in his blood.

Get ready for the draft, mayng.....

#1033217Post 15 of 43

Re: Why is Bush Helping the Saudis build Nukes?

[quote=88Mariner;612504]Get ready for the draft, mayng.....[/quote]

yup.

longer this war goes on, the fewer marines we have out there... which is making the reality of a draft that much closer =\

#1033233Post 16 of 43

Re: Why is Bush Helping the Saudis build Nukes?

[QUOTE=shosh;612495]sorry, I had given some of my reasons in a bunch of other threads but i dont mind reiterating them:

  • dont agree with his views on war. [B]i think its very pussy like that he wants to go[/B] and sit down and have talks with terrorists, etc. im not saying we should invade every country, but what would have happened if we sat down and had a nice talk with Hitler.
  • dont agree with his views on guns. 2nd amendment doesnt give us the right to bear arms. the wording states that our right to bear arms should not be infringed upon
  • i do not favor the fact that he was backing rev wright for 20 years and only now that it is not favoring his campaign he denounced his former mentor, best friend, etc and resigned from the church
  • i do not favor the way his wife, possible first lady, talked about the USA
  • i dont think he has enough experience to show us what he can do. so far he hasnt accomplished much so for me it is all talk

these are just a few things, but they are some that i feel very very strongly about.[/QUOTE]

I started to respond point by point to this, but it just seems like a waste. You've already made up your mind that Obama is a non-flag pin-wearing, caucasian-hating, Pledge of Allegiance-refusing terrorist, so I'm not going to waste my keystrokes. I do have to point out, though, that the "sentence" in bold type of there is just absurd. "I think its very pussy?" What the hell does that even mean? :lol:

#1033237Post 17 of 43

Re: Why is Bush Helping the Saudis build Nukes?

it means he's a woman. Which should satisfy Hillary supporters.

#1033238Post 18 of 43

Re: Why is Bush Helping the Saudis build Nukes?

both candidates are over hyped, under qualified, big talk idiots.

obama is a[U] [B]party line democrat[/B][/U]. (check his voting record) NOTHING MORE. he isnt a middle road guy, he has little experience, and is as much a socialist movement as hillary was.

mccain is old, hard line, [B][U]border line neo con[/U][/B]. mroe socially liberal in opinions, but wont act on them as his party is retarded. his fiscal and "defense" (read: offense) policy is up there with bush.

no matter who gets elected, congressional ineptitude will preventt them from doing anything. our country is split, and our representatives arent willing to concede items, but hold out to get what they want.

obama wont make a good president, mccain has zero shot as well.

stupidity rules here, and people dont realize how our gov't operates on the federal level. vote smarter when it comes time to put people in the houses, once we handle that, gov't will move quicker, act smarter and maybe get it together.

and toasty. obama WILL NOT BE A GOOD PRESIDENT, NOR WILL MCCAIN. we are fucked like an 18 year old japanese bitch in a fetish video. i.e. we are gonna get fucked, how bad?> depends on the sicko.

#1033240Post 19 of 43

Re: Why is Bush Helping the Saudis build Nukes?

[QUOTE=toasty;612542] I do have to point out, though, that the "sentence" in bold type of there is just absurd. "I think its very pussy?" What the hell does that even mean? :lol:[/QUOTE]

OK, I think I get it now, it was having "pussy" and "like" as two different words that threw me. Do you mean pusillanimous?

#1033242Post 20 of 43

Re: Why is Bush Helping the Saudis build Nukes?

insert team america explanation of dicks and pussies here

#1033247Post 21 of 43

Re: Why is Bush Helping the Saudis build Nukes?

[QUOTE=thesightless;612549]rant rant rant[/QUOTE]

wow dude, have a slurpee or something, where's all that anger coming from? You used to come in here and post at least semi-lucid points. Now it's just the wild ramblings of a grumpy old man. ;):lol:

#1033249Post 22 of 43

Re: Why is Bush Helping the Saudis build Nukes?

because every one of you have abandoned factual presentation and are fucking stumping for votes for two idiots. obama is no saviour. he is a fucking left wing party line democrat. he says he isnt, but his actions prove otherwise. same shit for mccain on the right side.

obama is a twit puppet. you know it , i know it. how else did a rookie senator get this far. he was spoted as being young, mixed race, mixed religous, and well spoken. i.e. the perfect manchurian candidate for a country that hates the representative of the so called white rich party.

please, since im just ranting away, show me one fucking thing this mutt did in his career/life that shows he will unite anyone. hint : you wont.

mind you that it is his party that is so much more responsible for the current state of affairs in our country and its crisises outside of the war on islam.

#1033251Post 23 of 43

Re: Why is Bush Helping the Saudis build Nukes?

[quote=toasty;612542]I started to respond point by point to this, but it just seems like a waste. You've already made up your mind that Obama is a non-flag pin-wearing, caucasian-hating, Pledge of Allegiance-refusing terrorist, so I'm not going to waste my keystrokes. I do have to point out, though, that the "sentence" in bold type of there is just absurd. "I think its very pussy?" What the hell does that even mean? :lol:[/quote]

im glad someone explained... the pussy reference... i was typing fast as i had to make a call back to a client

i have not said much (if anything) about the flag-pin, pledge of allegiance, his refusal to put his hand to his heart during the national anthem. so dont accuse me of those things. although since you brought that up, ill say something about that too. people criticize bush (justly so) for being a douchebag. so does that mean that obama should be one as well? imo the president should be the #1 example of patriotism and pride of our country, its values, and principles that it was established on.

[quote=toasty;612559]wow dude, have a slurpee or something, where's all that anger coming from? You used to come in here and post at least semi-lucid points. Now it's just the wild ramblings of a grumpy old man. ;):lol:[/quote]

i wish i could be as eloquent as sightless because he literally took words out of my brain...

sightless for pres

#1033255Post 24 of 43

Re: Why is Bush Helping the Saudis build Nukes?

[quote=shosh;612384]vote mccain. he is god[/quote]

[quote=toasty;612542]vote obama. he is god[/quote]

that is what this forum is now. no more discussions of viewpoints and facts. just pitching for votes. toasty only puts forth anti mccain articles and article making him seem like jesus himself. same shit for shosh with mccain.

guys, give us some evidence as to why we should go one way or another.

#1033256Post 25 of 43

Re: Why is Bush Helping the Saudis build Nukes?

sean got out of the boat about a year ago. never came back.

[img]http://farm1.static.flickr.com/24/60213977_78ca62c76c.jpg?v=1131239749[/img]

#1033257Post 26 of 43

Re: Why is Bush Helping the Saudis build Nukes?

if i were president, things would be great. becuase i would let those who have expertise in said feilds make the decisions. shit like gay marriage would go right to popular vote and if voted down, i would at least assign them every legal right outside of the word.

and i would call a spade a spade.

#1033261Post 27 of 43

Re: Why is Bush Helping the Saudis build Nukes?

[QUOTE=thesightless;612561] please, since im just ranting away, show me one fucking thing this mutt did in his career/life that shows he will unite anyone. hint : you wont. [/QUOTE]

I've got a hop on a call here in a few so I don't have a lot of time to devote to this, but the Lugar-Obama anti-nuclear proliferation bill and the Coburn-Obama Transparency Act are a couple of bi-partisan bills that he helped author that spring to mind.

#1033263Post 28 of 43

Re: Why is Bush Helping the Saudis build Nukes?

[QUOTE=thesightless;612561] mind you that it is his party that is so much more responsible for the current state of affairs in our country and its crisises outside of the war on islam.[/QUOTE]

and by the way, this pretty much undermines anything you have to say, period. The Dems have done diddly poo over the last 8 years, and not for lack of trying. That's like standing in a rowboat and shooting shotgun shells into the bottom of the boat, but blaming a guy standing on shore for it sinking.

#1033267Post 29 of 43

Re: Why is Bush Helping the Saudis build Nukes?

[quote=thesightless;612570]if i were president, things would be great. becuase i would let those who have expertise in said feilds make the decisions. shit like gay marriage would go right to popular vote and if voted down, i would at least assign them every legal right outside of the word.

and i would call a spade a spade.[/quote]

ah yes. tyrrany of the majority. perhaps a populace could also vote on rescinding the right to bear arms..or the right to a jury trial.

#1033271Post 30 of 43

Re: Why is Bush Helping the Saudis build Nukes?

I think I can offer a unique perspective on this due to the fact that both of my parents live in Saudi Arabia. The situation in the middle east is what it is, which sucks. With that said, it may be a good option at this point to have a cold war between Saudi Arabia and Iran in order to maintain "balance" in the mideast between Sunni and Shia, a balance which, if disturbed, could easily escalate and start World War III. This is one of the rare times since 2003 that something the Bush administration is doing seems like a remotely good idea.

[quote=thesightless;612561]...outside of the war on islam.[/quote]

However, that's the 800lb gorilla in the room. Many of the problems you attribute to Democrats pale in comparison to the problems this war brings. The problem of Iran pursuing nukes is because they're scared as shit of us invading them, and if John McCain is elected, rightly so. Also, this war on Islam has allowed a mindset of "conquer for oil" to persist in at least extreme parts of the neo-con ranks. This mindset obviously doesn't mesh with any efforts to phase out oil as our primary energy source (read: our involvement in the middle east cesspool and all the problems stemming from it) since many of these same neo-cons have their hands in big oil.

This is where Obama comes in. He plans on pulling out of Iraq and investing some of the money being dumped there into getting us off our perpetual oil addiction with his "Manhattan Project" approach to energy (read: getting us out of the middle east cesspool). With what Bush is doing right now by arming Saudi Arabia, he's unintentionally helping out Obama by opening up an avenue for us to withdraw. With Saudi Arabia armed with nukes, they could essentially take our place of keeping Iran out of Iraq (the only remotely plausible reason for us still being there), since the US and SA both share the same interests of a non-Iranian government next door.

#1033333Post 31 of 43

Re: Why is Bush Helping the Saudis build Nukes?

[QUOTE=thesightless;612568]that is what this forum is now. no more discussions of viewpoints and facts. just pitching for votes. toasty only puts forth anti mccain articles and article making him seem like jesus himself. same shit for shosh with mccain.

guys, give us some evidence as to why we should go one way or another.[/QUOTE]

Seriously dude, just what are you talking about? That is just factually incorrect. I looked back at my recent posts to do a sanity check, and I really don't think I've laid it on too thick with him at all. I actually go out of my way to avoid needlessly bashing McCain, difficult though it may be at times, in accordance with the campaign's express wishes.

To be clear, lest there be any confusion:

-I got involved with the Obama campaign back in February of 2007, because I really believed in the guy. At the time I joined St. Louis for Obama, there were 11 other members, and we all sat around a room and tried to figure out how to generate interest in his candidacy.
-I've been working on his campaign in one capacity or another ever since, although I'm not on his payroll and have no desire to be -I'm on his national finance committee, have donated to his campaign, hosted fundraisers for him at my house, and sponsored fundraisers around St. Louis for him -I really, really, really want to see him get elected

So yeah, I'm biased, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong. I was on this train long before most, and I got on because I thought he was the right person for the job.

You are correct, however, that I've never set forth exactly why I think he deserves to be elected. The reason for that is pretty simple -- I didn't think anyone would care if I started a "why Barack Obama should be president" thread. Since you asked, though, here's a quick rundown:

  1. He believes in increased transparency in government, and in decreasing the influence of lobbyists and special interests, and he's walked the walk on this front, passing legislation to that end in Congress and back in the Illinois legislature.

  2. I believe that a large part of the office of president is "figurehead," and I believe he has the ability to help restore our standing in the world and amongst our allies. If you don't care about our standing in the world, let me humbly submit that your mindset is exactly the type of mindset that got us into this mess to begin with.

  3. He understands the difference between wars that need to be fought and wars that do not, and had the good sense to understand that the Iraq war did not need to be fought when most of us were gung ho about going in there guns a'blazing.

  4. I really have the sense that he will surround himself with intelligent people, not people that will tell him what he wants to hear. I also think, along the same lines, that he is an intellectually curious guy who is very interested in understanding the problems that confront him. It was not reported upon, at his request, but did you know that after his trip to Iraq in 2006, he held an off-the-record session with the imbedded media in Iraq where [B]he asked the media questions[/B] about what [B]they[/B] were seeing there? That's the mark of someone that is more interested in solutions than photo ops.

  5. He's a realist and a pragmatist.

  6. Oh, and he's in line with my belief system when it comes to all really all social issues.

I could actually go on for a while.

So there you go, those are some of the reasons I'm supporting Barack Obama for president. Got anything other than venom?

#1033397Post 32 of 43

Re: Why is Bush Helping the Saudis build Nukes?

Ahhh...good ole american politics. Bashing each other upside the head.

I agree with Toasty on the President being the "Figurehead" of our country and therefore very important to put in a strong leader who will inspire the US citizen to work for a better future as well as be able to peacefully interact with our ever increasing interconnected world.

I also agree with Sean, both candidates will be party line fools. Each supporting party agenda's that continually alienate voters while spending money like kids in a candy store.

I suspect whoever is elected president will face four years of increasing public discontent and will be a one term president.

I truly wish one man could make a difference. Sadly, its not possible imo. Sometimes I wonder if people have forgotten we are living in a capitalist society. It has its goods and bads. If history shows the goods outweigh the bads then one must accept the responsibility of the bads to get the goods. This is where we are now. Cycles can't go in one direction forever. I am speaking economically in this regard and its my observation the popularity of a president is directly tied to the economic direction of the day.

At the end of the day one has to make up his/her own mind about things. The only thing I would wish for is people have the guts to understand they are responsible for their own lives. Hard knocks bang on everyones door. I accept and know it. Its a matter of getting up the next day and working hard and smart to get to a better place.

The world is filled with so many people. Different people. Its not possible for just one way to be right. The future is coming faster than any of us can know. Should be an exciting ride.

#1033412Post 33 of 43

Re: Why is Bush Helping the Saudis build Nukes?

also keep inmind you never truly see a president's policies pay off until rouhgly a decade or so after they are implemented. bush is the exception whereas his second half had immediate negative effects.

to toasty, im not spitting venom at these 2, im just saying, you/shosh make obama/mccain look like the fucking saviour. they arent. you guys mis represent them a lot. obama is party line, moreso than clinton i beleive. so is mccain, and that guy is scary. i dont need to go on about mccain. he is slightly less irritating than GW, and that only makes him [I][U]slightly [/U][/I] less. obama, however, is a pawn, a trophy puppet put forward because of what he is, not who he is.

you make it sound like this guy is jesus. he isnt. more like pinnochio.

#1033424Post 34 of 43

Re: Why is Bush Helping the Saudis build Nukes?

[URL]http://www.newsweek.com/id/140965[/URL]

right there folks, couldnt say it better. we are fucked.

#1033433Post 35 of 43

Re: Why is Bush Helping the Saudis build Nukes?

[QUOTE=thesightless;612766] we are fucked.[/QUOTE]

No, just you. I'm doing great!

#1033458Post 36 of 43

Re: Why is Bush Helping the Saudis build Nukes?

[quote=toasty;612654] 4. I really have the sense that he will surround himself with intelligent people, not people that will tell him what he wants to hear. I also think, along the same lines, that he is an intellectually curious guy who is very interested in understanding the problems that confront him. It was not reported upon, at his request, but did you know that after his trip to Iraq in 2006, he held an off-the-record session with the imbedded media in Iraq where [B]he asked the media questions[/B] about what [B]they[/B] were seeing there? That's the mark of someone that is more interested in solutions than photo ops. [/quote]

I loled in real life... Srsly, he will surround himself with intelligent people? I assume you base this on his track record correct? Because he has proven to always to that in the past. Strong ignorance imo. [FONT=&quot][URL]http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121314375651462773.html?mod=opinion_main_review_and_outlooks[/URL] [/FONT]

I have also met with some members of the media... When I lived in UT I had a very long and serious conversation with Dodge Billingsley who was embedded several times during this war and he was saying that what we see on tv is the worse. For example, the iraqis for the most part are either supportive or dont give a shit about the us invasion. For them life hasnt changed much, except maybe they can now buy some nicer things and thats about it. The reason it is portrayed so bad is because of the numbers game. Only about 1-2% of iraqis are against the us and the invasion, but that adds up to quite a big number. Take Basra for example, a city of about 1 million people; if 1% of the people are against the US, that makes up for about 10,000 insurgents. That's a pretty big number fighting against our soldiers, therefore the damage is great and it looks very bad. Is war the right thing? Like I've mentioned before, I cant say if we need to leave or stay in iraq. It's hard and complicated. Was ousting Saddam the right thing to do? 1000000% fuckin yes. Having lived under a communist dictatorship, I remember waiting for the americans to come and help us as they had promised at the treaty of Yalta, but instead they left us to rot with the russians. It was a difficult task ousting the regime and it had repercussions felt for many years. What any of us had given for someone to help us overturn the regime and that horrible monster (Romania's Ceausescu).

As far as McCain goes, I dont think he's the savior and I definitely dont think he was the best one for the job, but thats who the republicans have and although he terrifies me, he terrifies me much less than Obama. I dont think either parties had any strong candidates running in the primaries, which is a sad state of our country.

Amen.

#1033549Post 37 of 43

Re: Why is Bush Helping the Saudis build Nukes?

man.......i was thinking that the stupidity and pathologically short attention span of this country's citizens will truly bring an end to this great idea of a united states and the principles and economics are being played due to the aforementioned stupidity, preyed on by a few who realize where we are, and are taking advantage. unfortunetly, we wont know until its too late. :|

#1033565Post 38 of 43

Re: Why is Bush Helping the Saudis build Nukes?

[QUOTE=thesightless;612749] obama is party line, moreso than clinton i beleive.[/QUOTE]

Nope, Clinton votes more consistently with the democrats than Obama, 97.7% to 96.7%. Not a big gap in raw numbers, though, which is totally unsurprising in light of the fact that almost everyone in Congress has voted straight party line for at least the last 16 years. This just in.

#1033566Post 39 of 43

Re: Why is Bush Helping the Saudis build Nukes?

[quote=thesightless;612911]man.......i was thinking that the stupidity and pathologically short attention span of this country's citizens will truly bring an end to this great idea of a united states and the principles and economics are being played due to the aforementioned stupidity, preyed on by a few who realize where we are, and are taking advantage. unfortunetly, we wont know until its too late. :|[/quote]

that was deep. was that directed towards my post?

#1033568Post 40 of 43

Re: Why is Bush Helping the Saudis build Nukes?

[quote=shosh;612931]that was deep. was that directed towards my post?[/quote]

not at all, truly comes from two co workers here that i swear to god should have thier legal rights as US citizens revoked.

kevin W -- obama is a terrorist(yelling the word), he is a muslim fake! the man hates this country and is going to be its downfall... and much much more uneducated, racist, disgusting remarks

sarabjeet S -- john mccain is a warlord in the making, who has no idea of what it takes to manage anything... he is borderline KKK and they are setting up the country for him to take over. they are going to off obama.

kevin W is also responsible for this gem (loosly quoted and severly summized) ...."they have a cure for aids, its a machine, they use it in europe, it takes blood from you, boils it to kill the virus, and then re-injects you with the clean blood"------

i asked him, if they boil the blood, wouldnt it kill the blood cells as well? i.e. wouldnt you die within 2 minutes of receiving a pint's worth of dead blood cells and congealed plasma?

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