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McClellan's Book

30 durable postsStarted 2008-05-28Latest 2008-06-28
#54920Post 1 of 30

I trust you've heard about Fmr. Press Secretary Scott McClellan's assertions in his book, "What Happened" that Bush basically put propaganda ahead of anything else in the run-up to the Iraq war, and otherwise lambasted the President:

[url]http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0508/10649.html[/url]

[url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/27/AR2008052703679_pf.html[/url]

The White House response has been what you'd expect, but I thought the response of Dan Bartlett was particularly telling:

[QUOTE]Bartlett added that intimates of the President feel McClellan has violated his trust. "Part of the role of being a trusted adviser is to honor that trust," said Bartlett. "It's not your place now to go out" and criticize the President like this.[/QUOTE]

[url]http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/05/28/bartlett-rips-mcclellan-calls-allegation-total-crap/[/url]

the way I read that, Bartlett would appear to be more upset about the fact that McClellan came out and said anything than the substance of the allegations themselves (although admittedly, that could be because of the way the story is written, because I haven't seen all of his comments). Criticizing McClellan for failing to "honor that trust" suggests that McClellan is a snitch, rather than a liar. Is McClellan the Fredo Corleone of the administration?

#1026381Post 2 of 30

Re: McClellan's Book

the reactions i've been seeing is that of being totally blindsided by this.

"this is not the scott we knew" is very telling. to call him disgruntled, which was intended to be a stab at him, is no other way to describe a person who has had to propogate the fairy tales of this administration.

Is McClellan the Fredo Corleone of the administration? Perhaps.

Do you find it amazing, as do I, at how quickly a man of such proximity to the president for such a long time (almost as long as Rove), is quickly treated as an enemy? Bush wasn't kidding about "you're either with us or against us".

edit: Also, I love how Bartlett says this book is 'total crap'. Which is what one would think you would say to describe the last seven years of this administration.

Interstingly, all the responses from the administration have actually been non-responses.

#1026384Post 3 of 30

Re: McClellan's Book

just saw this on thinkprogress.org on how the Bush admin treats 'traitors'

[QUOTE] [INDENT][B]Former Treasury Secretary Paul O’Neill[/B] [INDENT][URL="http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/01/10/oneill.bush/"][COLOR=#990000]WROTE[/COLOR][/URL]: Bush planned in invade Iraq before 9/11 and was like a blind man in a roomful of deaf people” during Cabinet meetings. [URL="http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/01/11/oneill.bush/"][COLOR=#990000]SMEAR[/COLOR][/URL]: “[B]We didn’t listen to [O’Neill’s] wacky ideas[/B] when he was in the White House, why should we start listening to him now?” — A senior official who informed Bush of O’Neill’s comments, 1/12/04 [/INDENT][B]Former Campaign Chief Strategist Matthew Dowd[/B] [INDENT][URL="http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/01/washington/01adviser.html?_r=3&hp=&oref=slogin&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin&oref=slogin"][COLOR=#990000]SAID[/COLOR][/URL]: Bush has “become more, in my view, secluded and bubbled in”; that “our leaders have to understand what they [the American public] want. They’re saying, ‘Get out of Iraq.’” [URL="http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/01/bartlett-matt-dowd/"][COLOR=#990000]SMEAR[/COLOR][/URL]: “[B]He’s going through a lot of personal turmoil[/B] but also he has a son who is soon to be deployed to Iraq. That could only impact a parents’ mind as they think through these issues.” — Dan Bartlett, 4/1/07 [/INDENT][B]Former Counter-Terrorism Chief Richard Clarke[/B] [INDENT][URL="http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/03/19/60minutes/main607356.shtml"][COLOR=#990000]WROTE[/COLOR][/URL]: Bush “ignored terrorism for months”; sought to tie 9/11 to Iraq immediately. [URL="http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/03/20040322-4.html#4"][COLOR=#990000]SMEAR[/COLOR][/URL]: [B]“He wanted to be the deputy secretary of the Homeland Security Department[/B] after it was created. … He did not get that position, someone else was appointed to it. … [B]His best friend is Rand Beers[/B], who is the principal advisor to the Kerry campaign.” — Scott McClellan, while serving as press secretary, 3/22/04 [/INDENT][/INDENT][/QUOTE]

#1026391Post 4 of 30

Re: McClellan's Book

^^ no irony on who's delivering the smear there, eh?

#1026396Post 5 of 30

Re: McClellan's Book

[QUOTE=88Mariner;608054] [B]Do you find it amazing[/B], as do I, at how quickly a man of such proximity to the president for such a long time (almost as long as Rove), is quickly treated as an enemy? Bush wasn't kidding about "you're either with us or against us". [/QUOTE]

I do find it amazing, I do not find it surprising.

When I think about the Bush administration, the first words that come to mind are "spin" and "propaganda." It spends so much time spinning and trying to control the message, governing seems to be well down the list of priorities. As an outsider looking in, I think McClellan was spot on in his observation that Bush has adopted a "perpetual campaign" mindset. There's a book called "All the President's Spin" that came out during the last campaign cycle that you might find interesting -- quick read, too.

#1026464Post 6 of 30

Re: McClellan's Book

I had a feeling a book like this was coming after seeing McClellan on Bill Maher Realtime earlier in the year. McClellan laughed way too hard when Maher called Bush President shit for brains.

Douglas Feith, Donald Rumsfeld and Karl Rove have all quit the Bush administration fairly recently, but none of them have blasted the Bush administration. I'm assuming those guys didn't want to be branded traitors.

#1026645Post 7 of 30

Re: McClellan's Book

[QUOTE=superdave;608140] Douglas Feith, Donald Rumsfeld and Karl Rove have all quit the Bush administration fairly recently, but none of them have blasted the Bush administration. I'm assuming those guys didn't want to be branded traitors.[/QUOTE]

That, or they were so involved in what McClellan is talking about themselves that they either don't think that anything was done improperly, or don't want to implicate themselves.

#1026647Post 8 of 30

Re: McClellan's Book

I think this kinda underscores the folly of appointing people based upon loyalty rather than merit. You can run a closed, secretive administration and put people in power based upon their loyalty to you and willingness to tow the party line without question, or you can run an open administration and appoint people based on their ability to do the job. We've seen what happens with option number 1, now I'm ready to see what happens with option number 2.

#1026750Post 9 of 30

Re: McClellan's Book

from my perspective all this book does is create more friction in a place that needs less. i'm sorry, but mclellan is a dumbass if he is 100% accurate or 100% inaccurate. they kicked you out. boohoo. get over it. all you've caused is MORE bickering in a nation already extremely divided. the sooner capitol hill starts cooperating with each other, the better. right now all the citizens are given is one big stalemate with problems getting bigger and bigger and a lowsy $600 rebate check. i am so tired of EVERYONE in our government. they need to go to daycare. all of them.

#1026758Post 10 of 30

Re: McClellan's Book

^^tough to argue with that.

#1026768Post 11 of 30

Re: McClellan's Book

I'm not surprised to hear anything that McClellans is claiming. (only from news media Ihavent read it).

But it feels to me like he is someone who really knew at the time that he was spouting bushit - but didnt have the balls to walk out and keep his dignity/credibility - and is now trying to wash his hands of his guilt - by making all these declarations and now trying to appear like he is a good guy by stating what "really" happened.

But agree with Garrick too.

#1026787Post 12 of 30

Re: McClellan's Book

I'd put a lot more stock in McClellan's he if went to congress with his information rather than trying to sell a book.

#1026791Post 13 of 30

Re: McClellan's Book

but he wouldn't make much money that way....... :)

#1026805Post 14 of 30

Re: McClellan's Book

[QUOTE=Jenks;608493]I'd put a lot more stock in McClellan's he if went to congress with his information rather than trying to sell a book.[/QUOTE]

You might get your wish:

[url]http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/05/obama-backing-1.html[/url]

#1026809Post 15 of 30

Re: McClellan's Book

yup. the two term limits should be for all elected officials that handle more than one jurisdiction. i.e.

allow ppl like mike bloomberg to stay on as mayor, and your locality.

but there is ZERO FUCKING REASON that a kennedy/kerry/bush, should have office for decades. two term limits so we can have fresh voices and prevent our "representatives" from getting in bed with causes for too long. would anyone honestly fight for big medicine profits, insurance profits, oil profits etc if they were prevented from making money off them?

also, all gov't representattives should be forced to operate thier finances in blind trusts like the pres and VP. that way they dont have a clue what they are doing for themselves.

#1026832Post 16 of 30

Re: McClellan's Book

[quote=toasty;608459]^^tough to argue with that.[/quote]

Let me give it a shot: if we can cause friction, aka, divide the factions to fight against each other, which is the whole selling point of why the constitution was ratified by the colonies, then the government will be in an endless whirlpool of bickering. This is a good thing: the less our government does, the fewer harms it can cause both the peopel here and, peripherally, others around the world.....

Better, it marginalizes Bush's capability to start random shitstorms with other countries. The AsianTimes recently reported there are plans to start carpet bombing certaing government installations deep in Iran by the United States in July. The fact that the the original propoganda spewed by the media and the executive branch mouthpeices to sell us down the drain for the Iraq war, is now back in open discussion in this country: perfect timing to possibly prevent more propoganda, more wars and conflicts, from happening at the behest and will of this administration.

how's that toasty?

#1026836Post 17 of 30

Re: McClellan's Book

it hasn't caused any lessening of shitstorms from bush yet.... or the congress's lack of passing anything useful. we're pretty far into this "who's pissing further than who" state of mind. i don't know if your arguement is legit, senor...:p

#1027107Post 18 of 30

Re: McClellan's Book

[QUOTE=88Mariner;608545]Let me give it a shot: if we can cause friction, aka, divide the factions to fight against each other, which is the whole selling point of why the constitution was ratified by the colonies, then the government will be in an endless whirlpool of bickering. This is a good thing: the less our government does, the fewer harms it can cause both the peopel here and, peripherally, others around the world.....

Better, it marginalizes Bush's capability to start random shitstorms with other countries. The AsianTimes recently reported there are plans to start carpet bombing certaing government installations deep in Iran by the United States in July. The fact that the the original propoganda spewed by the media and the executive branch mouthpeices to sell us down the drain for the Iraq war, is now back in open discussion in this country: perfect timing to possibly prevent more propoganda, more wars and conflicts, from happening at the behest and will of this administration.

how's that toasty?[/QUOTE]

I agree that having a government that doesn't just pass legislation at the drop of a hat, where it is tough to pass new laws, is a good thing. The worst laws are made when one party has sole control and just rams shit through, and the best are made when the parties are forced to work with one another.

I think that's different than what Garrick was saying though. He can speak for himself, but for my part, it is a given that ours is an adversarial system, but that doesn't mean it has to be acrimonious, too. Just because we have disagreements on policy doesn't mean we have to be dicks about it.

#1027141Post 19 of 30

Re: McClellan's Book

[QUOTE=Jenks;608493]I'd put a lot more stock in McClellan's he if went to congress with his information rather than trying to sell a book.[/QUOTE]

[url]http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/05/30/mcclellan-id-be-happy-to-testify-about-bush-white-house/[/url]

#1027160Post 20 of 30

Re: McClellan's Book

[quote=thesightless;608519]yup. the two term limits should be for all elected officials that handle more than one jurisdiction. i.e.

allow ppl like mike bloomberg to stay on as mayor, and your locality.

but there is ZERO FUCKING REASON that a kennedy/kerry/bush, should have office for decades. two term limits so we can have fresh voices and prevent our "representatives" from getting in bed with causes for too long. would anyone honestly fight for big medicine profits, insurance profits, oil profits etc if they were prevented from making money off them?

also, all gov't representattives should be forced to operate thier finances in blind trusts like the pres and VP. that way they dont have a clue what they are doing for themselves.[/quote]

agreed.

#1027246Post 21 of 30

Re: McClellan's Book

[quote=toasty;608851]I agree that having a government that doesn't just pass legislation at the drop of a hat, where it is tough to pass new laws, is a good thing. The worst laws are made when one party has sole control and just rams shit through, and the best are made when the parties are forced to work with one another.[/quote]

Agreed. As for McClellan, he is a patriot for speaking out. Perhaps he was suffering from "Stockholm Syndrome" when he was employed by our occupying regime, uhh administration. Perhaps living outside the administration bubble has caused him to realize the absurdity of the logic that pervades that bubble. Good for him for having the courage & unmitigated gall to blow the whistle. Hopefully he follows through when Congress calls on him to testify, if only for posterity. :roll:

As a small but not trivial part of our administration's last eight years, this situation has led me to ponder the following [I]potential future political scenario (b[/I][I]ear with me for a moment and read on).[/I]

It seems to me that we are stuck with two parties who have become largely reactionary and without any real leadership. The Republicans are basically [I]"obstructionists"[/I] whose only purpose is to deny any new gov't programs that actually serve the people through [I]public means[/I]. They don't believe in gov't but cannot reduce gov't because of the great and admitted difficulty in doing that. So their chosen alternative is to render gov't powerless and destroy it by bankrupting the federal gov't to the point where [I]at least half the federal budget goes to servicing interest on the national debt and remains that way [B]indefintely[/B][/I][B],[/B] by [I][B]not ever raising taxes[/B][/I] high enough to reduce the national debt. Meanwhile this growth in federal spending through the privatization of gov't services (i.e. mercenaries like Blackwater, undercutting public school funding through school choice, No Child Left Behind used to justify further reductions in public school funds, the prison-industrial complex (privatized), etc.) is being & will be accomplished by using the federal gov't [I]solely as a tool[/I] to funnel the maximum amount of funds to private corporations as is possible.

When most of the federal budget goes to servicing the debt (the other portion will fund [I]a mostly privatized military with nothing left over for any other sector of federal gov't[/I]) and the government's hands are effectively tied, these obstructionists will have their wish: a powerless federal government, a greatly reduced bureaucracy, and a small super-wealthy corporate class of citizens, call them a [I]bourgeoisie[/I], who run society (and "government"), pay little or no taxes, and have a large poor working class or [I]proletariat[/I] to do the hard work and service the debt through their high individual working tax rate.

[I]The Democrat's place in this?[/I] A continuation of the ever-so-gradual slide to the political right where they eventually join the Republicans as one party. "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em." Let's face it; no one can get elected in our system unless they can garner[I] large corporate and wealthy individual donations[/I]. And when every federally elected official is by [I]status-quo[/I] forced into [I][B]perpetual campaign mode[/B][/I], all legislation and business conducted by these officials becomes tainted by a [I][B]perpetual campaign mode mindset.[/B][/I] A mindset that is by definition, above all else, [I]interested in re-election and obsessed with obtaining the means to retaining the personal prestige attached to their re-election. [/I]

Lets call this government a [I]"corpocracy;"[/I] [I]a government that dually serves as a wholely owned and "publicly" operated [B]subsidiary & administrator[/B] of private industry[/I] where the privatiers themselves take turns at the helm ([I]the Presidency[/I]) using this "puppet government" as both an [I][B]administrator[/B] who funds industry[/I] and [I][B]subsidiary[/B] that utilizes gov't as a repressive tool to control the masses[/I] (through taxes & repressive edicts or "laws" based [I][B]not in reality[/B][/I] but in [B][I]conservative ideology)[/I][/B]. Imagine a "Terminator" type world that doesn't [I]overtly[/I] destroy its citizens, but [I]"sustains"[/I] them by selling food, water, oxygen, & the most minimal healthcare to its inhabitants who must conform to the corpocracy's edicts & political philosophy in order to be granted [I][B]"the privilege"[/B][/I] to be able to continue to [I]"purchase"[/I] these biologically required items from the [I]government protected[/I] [I]mega-monopolies[/I] that control the planet's[B] [I]remaining [U]corporately owned[/U][/I] [I]precious resources[/I][/B] (in a failing ecosystem affected by overpopulation and global climate-change) by demanding the relatively small remaining portion of the individual's income that does not already go to taxes, as [I][B]payment for survival.[/B][/I] [I]What a brave new fascist & corporate world we all can [B]"live"[/B] in. [/I] :shock:

[I]:idea:And btw, no, I am not a Marxist, just a person who believes that [B]government has its place in helping to create & sustain a civilized society with a [U]vigorous middle-class.[/U][/B][/I]

#1027470Post 22 of 30

Re: McClellan's Book

Mclellan knows that the Bush regime is about go under water.. they could be put up on war crimes in the near future and I'm pretty sure he wants to distance himself from the most hated president in USA history... Bush will go down even worse then Nixon...

#1032911Post 23 of 30

Re: McClellan's Book

Well, McClellan [B]IS[/B] going to testify before the judiciary committee, on June 20.

[url]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/09/mcclellan-to-testify-befo_n_106128.html[/url]

Should be very interesting...

As luck may have it, Valerie Plame is the keynote speaker at a banquet I'm attending on June 21 in central Missouri. Wonder if she'll be in DC for the hearings, and if that will impact her ability to attend our little thing.

#1036119Post 24 of 30

Re: McClellan's Book

surprised nobody is talking about this today..

he testified before congress today..

[URL]http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/06/20/mcclellan.testimony/index.html[/URL]

Looks like Dick is the one he is trying to blame

#1036131Post 25 of 30

Re: McClellan's Book

yea, bump on this.. im re-reading this post today.

absolute bonkers.

I almost agree with cactus on the point of the republicans stance on economy.. but i think its a little far to call it almost "terminator" type power system, thats a "funny" and enlightening way to put it.

I understand this completely.

[quote]"demanding the relatively small remaining portion of the individual's income that does not already go to taxes, as [I][B]payment for survival.[/B][/I] [I]What a brave new fascist & corporate world we all can [B]"live"[/B] in."[/I] [/quote]

but what about the idea of "working for what you have" government handouts never work.

look at how fucked up social security is, now they want to privatize health care? HAHA

#1036173Post 26 of 30

Re: McClellan's Book

When he was press secretary, I was glued to everything that he said. I was always impressed with him, and still am...I hope he does what he intends to do; bring justice and truth to the forefront for the American people..

#1041239Post 27 of 30

Re: McClellan's Book

Seriously? No one else was inspired by him? I thought he was brilliant.

#1041477Post 28 of 30

Re: McClellan's Book

I thought he was great.. until I see Dick and George all over national tv under oath telling their story I have to go with Scott... Nobody wants to talk about this because the people on here don't like it when somebody proves them wrong... all anybody could say before was "would he testify before congress?" Now that he has nobody wants to talk about it...

Where did all the Bush lovers go???

9/11 Patriot Act.. Suspending the Constitution Katrina Wiretapping Recession Iraq - Not just the war.. the lie to get into the war Killing people in jail... [URL]http://www.infowars.com/?p=2764[/URL] Guantanamo Bay Propaganda... Scott McLellan

You are all right for not wanting to talk here about Bush... he should be compared to Hitler more then any other US president.

#1041504Post 29 of 30

Re: McClellan's Book

Back in the 2004 election, there was a lot of spirited Bush support. Hasn't been that way for a long time, though. Frankly, if I were a Bushie, I wouldn't be eager to venture into this forum lately either, as there's been very little good news since he got elected in 2004. It really started with Katrina, and he's been in a downward spiral ever since...

#1041864Post 30 of 30

Re: McClellan's Book

I know MS users aren't stupid enough to think that Bush is good for the country.. I'm just venting at how some people will stay with Bush to the end. I just got home from a family function where they all LOVE Bush and I vented on here....hahah

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