[ms] · Est. May 2002
One durable person. One social graph. Many communities—and every way people speak, share, listen, write, gather and remember.
[QUOTE]SAN FRANCISCO — In a monumental victory for the gay rights movement, the California Supreme Court overturned a voter-approved ban on gay marriage Thursday in a ruling that would allow same-sex couples in the nation's biggest state to tie the knot.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/15/gay-marriage-ban-overturn_n_101920.html[/url]
:Bingo:
Re: Gay Marriage Ban Overturned
decision [URL="http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/glrts/inremrg51508opn.pdf"]here [/URL]is anyone is inclined to read it
Re: Gay Marriage Ban Overturned
as much as i like reading decisions, i would decline to do so, unlress it stated as to why it took so goddamn long to make this change.
Re: Gay Marriage Ban Overturned
Denying marriage to GLBT people does nothing to protect marriage. Whoever was protecting marriage lately was doing a pretty crappy job of it considering the way heteros have trashed it. I am surprised that many GLBT people even want anything to do with "marriage," minus the legal aspects of course.
Watch the behavior of the homophobes in the coming days. This may very well bring the politics of hate, fear & ignorance to a head. These days many conservatives shroud their homophobic (not to mention racist) rage behind the codewords "activist courts & judges." They have forgotten or ignore the concept of "tyranny by the majority" and our court system's vital role in checking this injustice by striking dead laws & measures passed by the majority designed to squash the civil liberties of a minority. Watch these conservatives crawl deeper into the cave of "the politics of ideology" while ignoring the reality of everyday people much like the ostrich who seeks to escape danger by sticking its head in the sand. "If we just keep denying GLBT people their rights and marginalizing them, maybe they will just go away." The Republican Party in particular is digging itself a bigger and bigger hole with this kind of BS. In twenty years who will be left that is pure enough to belong to this angry bunch of hypocrites?
:?:
This might sound funny, but I think they need our prayers because it is highly ironic that many of those who preach the Christian ideology the loudest find such a creative variety of ways (social, religious, & legal) to treat many of their brothers & sisters in very un-Christian-like ways.
:roll:
Re: Gay Marriage Ban Overturned
this is so ghey... jk
that being said i think its ridiculous that 4 people had the power to overturn a decision made by an entire state. about 4 million people voted against in california, yet that meant shit... it has nothing to do with homosexuals or anything like that, the system is fucked up. what happened to democracy when 4 people can make such a decision.
Re: Gay Marriage Ban Overturned
honestly, can we just putthis to a popular vote nationwide ?
and give 3 options, not just two.
Re: Gay Marriage Ban Overturned
^^ agree with #3.
marriage is a joke nowadays.. only reason people do it is for financial benefit and wasting an insane amount of money on a wedding just for the girl to go omgomgomg to her friends.
Re: Gay Marriage Ban Overturned
I'm so glad you people feel as though you can dictate my life.
Re: Gay Marriage Ban Overturned
[quote=shosh;603860]this is so ghey... jk
that being said i think its ridiculous that 4 people had the power to overturn a decision made by an entire state. about 4 million people voted against in california, yet that meant shit... it has nothing to do with homosexuals or anything like that, the system is fucked up. what happened to democracy when 4 people can make such a decision.[/quote]
Well yeah...but you know that this is absolutely nothing new, right? We rely on [I]representative democracy[/I] - actually, many would argue that we're a constitutional republic. Never in the history of the USA has it been the case that all the millions of citizens decided "everything". In fact, you decide damn little of the policy decisions that massively impact your life every day (did you vote on the Iraq war?). We have three branches of government - legislative, executive, judicial - which have been entrusted with powers that do not necessarily require a direct citizens' vote. In this case, the judicial branch has the power to interpret laws with respect to the Constitution. And that's that.
Re: Gay Marriage Ban Overturned
[quote=miketpoto;603986]I'm so glad you people feel as though you can dictate my life.[/quote]
furthest thing from the truth, but people need to compromise.
clearly there are asshats that think because you prefer a man than a woman means you are less than a person. unfortunely, this section is roughly half the people in the country who also have the same rights to vote on our laws like you and me. they want to protect thier "sacred institution" (used in the most sarcastic sense as i think religion is BS at this point, organized, rules based religion anyway, faith in general is benificial)
but if we just find a decent compromise here, everyone can benifit.
btw, mike, i think you know im all for it, i just keep in mind that allowing the GLBT section of our population. to "marry" will rile a ton of people just as it will rile the GLBT people if the other side gets it banned. its inhumane that some douche who calls himself a minister can tell you that your choice is bad when he walks around preaching rights, goodness, and equality and peace to "his flock"
there is no right choice in this debate, as any choice will piss off roughly half the population. that's why when i htink about it, i think the union idea will be the least harmful of people's opinions and religious rights. :what:x
Re: Gay Marriage Ban Overturned
So I shouldn't be allowed the same things because people will get riled?
Re: Gay Marriage Ban Overturned
[quote=Miroslav;603987]Well yeah...but you know that this is absolutely nothing new, right? We rely on [I]representative democracy[/I] - actually, many would argue that we're a constitutional republic. Never in the history of the USA has it been the case that all the millions of citizens decided "everything". In fact, you decide damn little of the policy decisions that massively impact your life every day (did you vote on the Iraq war?). We have three branches of government - legislative, executive, judicial - which have been entrusted with powers that do not necessarily require a direct citizens' vote. In this case, the judicial branch has the power to interpret laws with respect to the Constitution. And that's that.[/quote]
youre correct and i completely understand that. but at the same time i cant understand how some douches have the power to overturn a decision already made by the people. it's going to keep advancing to where its going to lead to more serious things. for the record, when the voting took place i texted everyone to vote against the ban, so here i am only against the principle not what it took place. as a good friend of mine said, who much like poto is very teh ghey, in california gays will quickly shed their slutty reputation when so many of them will have the opportunity to get committed. i loled a bit :D
Re: Gay Marriage Ban Overturned
LOL, men in general will always be slutty.
Re: Gay Marriage Ban Overturned
My thoughts on the topic and the reasons for them -- briefly, that marriage ought to be marriage for everyone and there's no good reason to call it something different to appease close-minded people -- are pretty well documented on the multiple threads on this topic on this forum, so I won't rehash them here. I will say this, though -- I'm very happy with this decision, and I think that, in the big picture, things are headed in the right direction.
The unfortunate reality is that if allowing gay marriage were to be placed on a nationwide referendum [B]right now[/B], it would probably lose -- but it would lose by less than it would have even just a couple of years ago, and by [B]much[/B] less than say 10-15 years ago. The national mindset is changing on this, it's a positive thing, and in time, I see it getting to where it needs to be. The strategy, I think, is a good one -- challenge these statutes in states that are likely to have favorable Supreme Courts such that there is momentum for a change and a clear division amongst the states to give the US Supreme Court an incentive to resolve it when it eventually makes it up there, which it undoubtedly will at some point.
USSC doesn't have the right makeup to bring the issue before it right now, but it should in the relatively near future if Obama wins in November. I know the battle cry of a lot of activists on really any issue is, "I'll fight this all the way to the Supreme Court!!!," but you don't want to take it before the Court until you're fairly sure you have the right judges on the bench -- once they rule, it can be a bitch to get them to revisit the question any time soon.
Re: Gay Marriage Ban Overturned
[quote=miketpoto;604008]So I shouldn't be allowed the same things because people will get riled?[/quote]
not saying that, im for your equality, it doenst bother me in the slightest, its YOUR choice, im just saying, that whether anyone likes it or not, it will rile half the people in the country. just a fact. not an opinion.
my opinion to the issue is 100% of the rights and the term. my understanding is that [I][U]in an effort to appease the most people[/U][/I], [I][U]via a democratic idea[/U][/I], is to give all the legality to you, while letting those hardliners keep thier dumb word.
frankly the idea of marriage is a farce anyway nowadays with people marrying for the wrong reasons, and divorcing anyway 5 -10 years down the line.
Re: Gay Marriage Ban Overturned
I have no interest in appeasing assholes.
(insert joke here)
Re: Gay Marriage Ban Overturned
[quote=miketpoto;604027]I have no interest in appeasing assholes.
(insert joke here)[/quote]
inserted :D
(no homo)
Re: Gay Marriage Ban Overturned
[quote=miketpoto;604027]I have no interest in appeasing assholes.
(insert joke here)[/quote]
again, for understanding outside of opinion, they have no interest in appeasing the GLBT population and frankly, if we all have this opinion, they outnumber ppl like me who are straight but beleive in the rights gays should damn well have. and if it comes to a vote while everyone shares this lack of interest, unfortunetly, you would have rights. :what
Re: Gay Marriage Ban Overturned
[quote=shosh;604011]youre correct. and i completely understand that. but at the same time i cant understand how some douches have the power to overturn a decision already made by the people. it's going to keep advancing to where its going to lead to more serious things. for the record, when the voting took place i texted everyone to vote against the ban, so here i am only against the principle not what it took place. as a good friend of mine said, who much like poto is very teh ghey, in california gays will quickly shed their slutty reputation when so many of them will have the opportunity to get committed. i loled a bit :D[/quote]
I hear ya and I understand where you're coming from...but the whole thing with those "douches" being able to act in this manner is precisely and [I]purposefully[/I] how our system was designed, pretty much since 1787. And I would argue that it generally does more good than harm. We were never intended to be a nation where "the people" (most of whom don't even know what's in the Constitution) can [I]directly[/I] determine the outcome of all policy decisions, with no recourse to the Constitution itself. Have you considered that there were probably times prior to the Civil War when "the people" would have voted in the majority to treat black people like animals? That doesn't make it constitutionally - or ethically - valid.
Same thing with gay marriage, in my opinion. I agree with poto on this one. The interpretation of law with respect to the Constitution is always a difficult exercise, but I think those "douches" in California got this one right. For starters, look up the First, Ninth, and Foureenth Amendments. In my opinion, they will basically tell you that: (1) the whole "religious" aspect of this debate is irrelevant; (2) we don't have the power to pick and choose to which class of citizens we grant universal rights and priviledges - of which the right to legal marriage is already clearly established as one.
Re: Gay Marriage Ban Overturned
Mike, I am with you 100%. I have no right to limit your freedoms & civil rights. Many US states as of late have taken a very different direction when it comes to individual rights. For the first time ever states, instead of expanding individual rights have begun to limit them. In my view, what has made America great is the expansion of rights (inclusivity), by bringing more people into the fold of acceptability. Diverse views brought into the mainstream makes America the great place it is.
Recent constitutional refereneda prohibiting gay marriage and civil unions mark a disturbing change of direction for our republic. Even state Supreme courts or the US Supreme Court cannot overturn a constitutional amendment. That requires an additional constitutional amendment (much like ending prohibition in the 30's needed a constitutional amendment). I have no doubt that in one to two more generations (20-40 years) most, if not all state constitutional bans on gay marriage and civil unions will be overturned by an additional constitutional amendment.
Ironically, states that have passed such sexually bigoted amendments will have both amendments forever etched into their constitutions for all of their future citizens to see what kind of people used to live there. What a legacy to incorporate into your state. The politics of fear and hatred (thanks to today's Republican Party) forever etched into American society for all of history to judge and see. :(
Re: Gay Marriage Ban Overturned
[QUOTE=Miroslav;604065]Have you considered that there were probably times prior to the Civil War when "the people" would have voted in the majority to treat black people like animals? [/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure that would pass in West Virginia today. Wish I was joking. :roll:
Re: Gay Marriage Ban Overturned
[QUOTE=thesightless;604053]again, for understanding outside of opinion, they have no interest in appeasing the GLBT population and frankly, if we all have this opinion, they outnumber ppl like me who are straight but beleive in the rights gays should damn well have. and if it comes to a vote while everyone shares this lack of interest, unfortunetly, you would have rights. :what[/QUOTE]
Luckily I don't want to get married anytime soon.
Re: Gay Marriage Ban Overturned
[quote=miketpoto;604086]Luckily I don't want to get married anytime soon.[/quote]
too bad, was looking forward to seeing you in a wedding dress :D
Sodom and Gomorrah FTW.
i kid i kid and i know way off topic...
Re: Gay Marriage Ban Overturned
[quote=shosh;604043]inserted :D
(no homo)[/quote]
i just spit milk all over my screen :lol:
Re: Gay Marriage Ban Overturned
The state, and in this case i mean any country, has absolutely no right to say who can and who can not marry - state sponsored marriage should be banned. Like wise all tax breaks and what not should be ended.
Should religious institutions wish to ordain marriage, that's fine by me, but the state, should neither condemn nor condone such behaviour, nor should it offer any type of incentive.
Re: Gay Marriage Ban Overturned
[QUOTE=Miroslav;604065]I hear ya and I understand where you're coming from...but the whole thing with those "douches" being able to act in this manner is precisely and [I]purposefully[/I] how our system was designed, pretty much since 1787. And I would argue that it generally does more good than harm. We were never intended to be a nation where "the people" (most of whom don't even know what's in the Constitution) can [I]directly[/I] determine the outcome of all policy decisions, with no recourse to the Constitution itself. Have you considered that there were probably times prior to the Civil War when "the people" would have voted in the majority to treat black people like animals? That doesn't make it constitutionally - or ethically - valid.
Same thing with gay marriage, in my opinion. I agree with poto on this one. The interpretation of law with respect to the Constitution is always a difficult exercise, but I think those "douches" in California got this one right. For starters, look up the First, Ninth, and Foureenth Amendments. In my opinion, they will basically tell you that: (1) the whole "religious" aspect of this debate is irrelevant; (2) we don't have the power to pick and choose to which class of citizens we grant universal rights and priviledges - of which the right to legal marriage is already clearly established as one.[/QUOTE]
I applaud your use of italics, parenthesis, and quotes in the above post! Solid bro. 8)
Re: Gay Marriage Ban Overturned
^^ haha. why thank [I]you[/I], sir! 8)