Per Hillary Clinton, Obama's an out of touch elitist. Probably right, but she's probably more so than he is. His comments about small town Pennsylvania voters that "cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them" to a San Francisco fund raising group does appear to be liberal elitism. I'll guess that the San Francisco group he was speaking to were elitists themselves and enjoy hearing such rhetoric.

Back to Hillary, she was in the White House for most of the 90's and was a Senator afterwards. Even before then, she attended Wellesley college, an exclusive all female school, and then Yale law school. Someone with that background should certainly be out of touch with small town Pennsylvania voters.

[url]http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/13/us/politics/13campaign.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&hp[/url]

Re: Obama's an elitist?

that's not elitism. that's just the damn truth. coming from a small town, people do cling to thier guns and religion and people who aren't like them aren't welcome. this is your typical huckabee supporter btw.

besides, who's to say those small-minded backwoods people aren't themselves elitist in the respect that anyone who isn't a bible-beating smith&wesson owning person isn't worthy of thier time or interest.

Re: Obama's an elitist?

it may be the truth, but it was not a very smart thing for Obama to say, if for no other reason than the fact that it just gave a freebie to his opponents to publicly stick it to him. I don't think Obama is any more elitist than any of his opponents - if anything, I see him as LESS elitist than the Clinton Empire, which raked in [B]$109 million[/B] of income in 7 years! But in this game, anytime you go too negative or make too drastic a generalization, your opportunistic opponents will be quick to pounce on you...that's just how it is.

Re: Obama's an elitist?

The whole political system in the US has been Elitist from the founding fathers up to today. Why would anyone be surprised? Although I don't see how he can be called elitist for doing that or why necessarily you think Hillary is...don't get me wrong, she IS definitely elitist but not because she went to a private school or was a senator but because of her views. I don't think she always was because she proposed health care reforms in the nineties which can't be seen as elitist - today on the other hand those people who would have lost out the most by those reforms such as doctors associations and health insurance companies are her major campaign contributors.

Furthermore you seem to be demonising the term elitist? Are u a communist?...JJ. But seriously its been a part of US politics for so long with lobbying and "revolving doors" in Washington i.e. same people/families have been in positions of power for generations...in addition if you are well of and have money elitist government might just be whats best for you and your family - might seem selfish but thats the reality of politics.

Re: Obama's an elitist?

anyone running for president could be painted with an "elitist" brush...where is the suprise?

Miro's game theory is true of course...

Re: Obama's an elitist?

[quote=superdave;589418]Per Hillary Clinton, Obama's an out of touch elitist. Probably right, but she's probably more so than he is. His comments about small town Pennsylvania voters that "cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them" to a San Francisco fund raising group does appear to be liberal elitism.[/quote] Generally true in my view. If Obama's attitude can be called liberal elitism, then what would the small-town Pennsylvania voter's attitude be termed? Neckism? Fundamentalism? Isolationist?

[quote=superdave;589418]I'll guess that the San Francisco group he was speaking to were elitists themselves and enjoy hearing such rhetoric[/quote] It is refreshing to hear the truth from a politician for once.:lol:

Re: Obama's an elitist?

I hadn't heard about this until I got a text from someone Friday afternoon that just said "what was Obama thinking?" After figuring out what he was talking about, I was kinda like, "and?"

I will say this: his phrasing wasn't great and he really shouldn't have put it the way he did. That said, I don't see how anything he said was that far out of line and, might I finally add, is probably pretty accurate. If he'd said it in rural Pennsylvania, it would have been a Sister Soulja moment. Instead, he says it to a bunch of wealthy donors, and all hell has been unleashed.

The quick poll on CNN this morning was (paraphrasing) "Were you offended by Obama's comments?" At the time I left for work, 75% had responded "no." For all this hubbub, I wonder if this will actually go anywhere...

Re: Obama's an elitist?

Barack made me a mixtape?? Holyshit! :)

Re: Obama's an elitist?

[QUOTE=Huggie Smiles;589784]Barack made me a mixtape?? Holyshit! :)[/QUOTE]

That's not all he did -- keep clicking, and it will keep putting up new ones. What a nice guy, that Barack Obama. :D

Re: Obama's an elitist?

Further evidence that this isn't going to help Hillary in a serious way -- she raised the issue and got jeered at an Alliance For American Manufacturing forum:

[url]http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/04/14/pennsylvania-crowd-jeers-clinton-attacks-on-obama/[/url]

Re: Obama's an elitist?

So now Hillary has an ad coming out about Obama's comments. They say Republicans are dirty and know how to win campaigns. It seems like the Clintons are dirty and do whatever it takes to win elections too.

[url]http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/04/14/new-clinton-ad-obama-is-out-of-touch/[/url]

Re: Obama's an elitist?

1. Obama's comments about small town americans being bitter: 100% true. I'm from small town america, he is spot on.

2. On 'Elitism': What's the problem with that, really? I have no problem with Elitism.

3. Hillary: get hit by a truck.

Re: Obama's an elitist?

^^prevents progress in a major way , enables monopolies and prevents competition hindering progress even further...its not very good - its undemocratic as certain groups of society are over represented...i can seriously go on with this for a long time ...

p.s agree with the Hilary comment

Re: Obama's an elitist?

dude...elitism is in fact natural and largely unavoidable. Let's face it - not everyone is born equal in terms of abilities. Everyone should have certain [I]inalienable rights[/I], but you don't want the high school dropout with 3 teeth setting your monetary policy or trying to find the next cure for cancer. And so it's always going to be the case that you will have an elite higher IQ set of people who will generally "run things" in society...one way or another.

Re: Obama's an elitist?

[quote=toasty;589692]The quick poll on CNN this morning was (paraphrasing) "Were you offended by Obama's comments?"...[/quote]

FWIW, I would like to suggest that offense is usually only taken by comments that have a degree of truth to them. A good proportion of the "right" in this country being shame-based at heart, pointing out how illogical the right's arguments and emotional tendencies are, e.g. second ammendment hysteria, fear of gay-marriage, flag-burning, etc. (I could go on and on) can be severely disconcerting for a group conditioned to viewing themselves as inherently logical and the world as black & white. Those in power in the Repubican Party laugh all the way to the bank and to the presidency (lately) when this lower socio-economic class, largely rural whites, continues to be swayed to vote AGAINST its own economic interests by these ridiculous appeals and constant fear-mongering from conservative politicans and radio hateocracy.

I stress that the crime Obama committed here was not specifically what he said, but was merely his role in pointing it out. It triggered a massive shame-attack amongst some in this group by being outed as "easily emotionally swayable," "economically illogical," and being "highly vulnerable to fear-mongering" (big surprise) when it comes to exercising their right to vote. Beware of evoking the shame of the right. For the right can and will use that shame in attempts to justify practically anything.:roll:

Re: Obama's an elitist?

[QUOTE=Miroslav;592121]dude...elitism is in fact natural and largely unavoidable. Let's face it - not everyone is born equal in terms of abilities. Everyone should have certain [I]inalienable rights[/I], but you don't want the high school dropout with 3 teeth setting your monetary policy or trying to find the next cure for cancer. And so it's always going to be the case that you will have an elite higher IQ set of people who will generally "run things" in society...one way or another.[/QUOTE]

Daily show had a great thing on this last night, where Jon Stewart pointed out, correctly I think, that we should [B]want [/B]our president to be elitist in a lot of respects. The way he did it was obviously designed to be funny, but he's spot on to the extent that the presidency is a position that calls for the best of the best, not a simpleton that "you can have a beer with."

Besides, we've seen what happens when we elect someone that reminds us of ourselves and is approachable -- let's shoot for someone brilliant for a change and see how that works out...

Re: Obama's an elitist?

[quote=toasty;592322] let's shoot for someone brilliant for a change and see how that works out...[/quote]

They have to [U]nominate[/U] someone brilliant first. :roll:

Re: Obama's an elitist?

[QUOTE=subterFUSE;592344]They have to [U]nominate[/U] someone brilliant first. :roll:[/QUOTE]

This was more intended to be an indictment of our current President than an endorsement of anyone in particular, but I think it would be tough to argue that Obama isn't a sharp mother fucker. You might be able to get yourself [B]admitted [/B]to an Ivy League school through your connections (cough, Bush, cough), but you don't get to be editor of the Harvard Law Review without being a seriously smart cookie. Matter of fact, although I like her zero, I would have to concede that Hillary is an extremely intelligent person as well.

Obama, in particular, is renowned for being exceptionally intellectually curious, going out of his way to try to understand the things he doesn't understand and asking lots of questions. Bush, in contrast, can't be bothered to read something that is more than one page. Do you ever get the feeling that you could beat Bush at Scrabble? I do, and that bothers the hell out of me.

Re: Obama's an elitist?

[quote=Miroslav;592121]dude...elitism is in fact natural and largely unavoidable. Let's face it - not everyone is born equal in terms of abilities. Everyone should have certain [I]inalienable rights[/I], but you don't want the high school dropout with 3 teeth setting your monetary policy or trying to find the next cure for cancer. And so it's always going to be the case that you will have an elite higher IQ set of people who will generally "run things" in society...one way or another.[/quote]

What your saying for the most part is true yes elitism is (in reality so far) unavoidable...but thats simply not what is meant by the term elitist or elitism...if the elite in power acts in its own interest - to preserve its power position, its financial supremacy...

But thats a completely different topic and I don't want to bore MS members with my political theory stuff...whoever is interested

The best book I have on the topic is called "The Irony of Democracy: an Uncommon Introduction to American Politics" written by Thomas R. Dye and Harmon Zeigler. Its really good if you have a chance read the first chapter at least.

Re: Obama's an elitist?

[IMG]http://leftwingconspiracy.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/motivator5093285.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Obama's an elitist?

[quote=toasty;592353]This was more intended to be an indictment of our current President than an endorsement of anyone in particular, but I think it would be tough to argue that Obama isn't a sharp mother fucker. You might be able to get yourself [B]admitted [/B]to an Ivy League school through your connections (cough, Bush, cough), but you don't get to be editor of the Harvard Law Review without being a seriously smart cookie. Matter of fact, although I like her zero, I would have to concede that Hillary is an extremely intelligent person as well.

Obama, in particular, is renowned for being exceptionally intellectually curious, going out of his way to try to understand the things he doesn't understand and asking lots of questions. Bush, in contrast, can't be bothered to read something that is more than one page. Do you ever get the feeling that you could beat Bush at Scrabble? I do, and that bothers the hell out of me.[/quote]

I you want to be president, then you are not brilliant. ;) You are either a complete imbecile or hopelessly insane. Possibly both at the same time. It's the worst job in the world.

Re: Obama's an elitist?

[IMG]http://www.judiciaryreport.com/images/hillary-obama-blend.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Obama's an elitist?

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you scared the shit out of me with that!!!!!!