[ms] · Est. May 2002
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do we stop prosecuting ?
or do we try to get little more tight with society as a whole ?
either way, the solution is going to piss off a lot of people.
or should we go back to killing serious violent offenders like rapists and murderers and actually try to curb governemnt spending.
oh yeah, killing minority babies before they become criminals is a good one. (JOKING)>
Re: 1 in 100 in jail....
1 in 9 black males ! unbelievable!
what a shocking system.
Resolving poverty issues would definitely help though. But people have said that for 100 years in many countries and it aint gonna happen anytime soon (besides sweden and denmark!)
Re: 1 in 100 in jail....
because sweeden and denmark have utterly insane immigrationn procedures and dont allow people in who would normally be considered poverty in the US or similar areas. to immigrate to sweeden, aussie, etc, you need to prove you can make it, by showing a trade, etc. and lets be frank, there population of immigration as opposed to what is considered "native" is disproportionally lower.
is this a sign? maybe we need to tighten up how we raise our kids,(YES< go back to the old school), punish our criminals? i think. this shit wasnt nearly going on at the rate it is 50, 60 years ago.
holy shit, i sound like my grandfather. we let these fucking rats get away with so much, and now look....
Re: 1 in 100 in jail....
decriminalize drugs. problem solved.
Re: 1 in 100 in jail....
ban rap music... problem solved.
Re: 1 in 100 in jail....
I'll tell you what, that is a staggering statistic.
As an aside, I just wrapped up a case where I was appointed by the Court (i.e., I didn't chose this case myself) to represent a prisoner in a civil rights action. He's serving time in a maximum security facility in southern Illinois, so I've spent a fair amount of time there. Wow is that a fucked up place to be. Spend some time in a place like that, and you come out a changed person, I guarantee you -- and not changed for the better. It's an entirely different world, where you can expect to be jumped, raped, beaten, etc. on a day-to-day basis.
To think that 1 in a 100 people is in that kind of environment is really scary. I realize not everyone is in a max security facility, but still...
Re: 1 in 100 in jail....
[quote=toasty;573865] Spend some time in a place like that, and you come out a changed person, I guarantee you -- and not changed for the better...[/quote]
I'm glad you clarified that for us :lol::lol::lol::p;)
Re: 1 in 100 in jail....
Jail doesn't rehabilitate the individual.. we need to rethink the punishment system we have here.. The stats are crazy too for people who have been to jail they usually return..
Re: 1 in 100 in jail....
[QUOTE=Huggie Smiles;573869]I'm glad you clarified that for us :lol::lol::lol::p;)[/QUOTE]
I understand that I have a reputation as a bit of a liberal on this board, so I wanted to make sure people didn't think I viewed prison as a bang-up way to turn one's life around. That place was like Oz, no messing around... :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
Re: 1 in 100 in jail....
[quote=runningman;573887]Jail doesn't rehabilitate the individual.. we need to rethink the punishment system we have here.. The stats are crazy too for people who have been to jail they usually return..[/quote]
we need to stop rehabbing them and punish them severly. maybe the potential of being in a prison like abu gharib before the USA arrived will be more incentive to stop crime before it happens.
sadly, IMO, hammurabi's code was the single most effective crime deterrent ever.
and all pre-meditated murder shuold be met with a bullet to the head, bnot a taxpayer bill of 166K per person, per year.
if your dad told you that the cops would take a knife to your fingers, would have stolen that candy? probably not, and if you did, and got caught im confident you wouldnt do it agian.
Re: 1 in 100 in jail....
[quote=thesightless;574028]we need to stop rehabbing them and punish them severly. maybe the potential of being in a prison like abu gharib before the USA arrived will be more incentive to stop crime before it happens.
sadly, IMO, hammurabi's code was the single most effective crime deterrent ever.
and all pre-meditated murder shuold be met with a bullet to the head, bnot a taxpayer bill of 166K per person, per year.
if your dad told you that the cops would take a knife to your fingers, would have stolen that candy? probably not, and if you did, and got caught im confident you wouldnt do it agian.[/quote]
the thing is we aren't rehabing them at all.. just throwing them in a cell like a rat.. I agree about pre-meditated murder though.. it should be quick and easy for those bastards but only if the proof is there.. I have heard a lot of stories about guys on death row getting off now because of DNA testing..
People would still steal if they are hungry no matter what the punishment is. It is a sad day when 1% of the pop. (In the USA) is in jail.. soon it will be 2% and then 5% especially now that they are privatizing the jail system.. Once you turn it into a business all that matters is making money which in turn means more bodies in jail is better for business.. its like cops now.. once they were given a quota of tickets that they had to give out it wasn't about serving and protecting anymore.. it was about money..
I'm hung over writing this so if it doesn't make sense then you know why...;)
Re: 1 in 100 in jail....
the real question isnt what to do with those in jail, but how to deter those who arent, from getting into crime to begin with.
Re: 1 in 100 in jail....
teach 'em while young...1st 5 years of a child's life ultimately shape a huge amount of their thought processes...
Re: 1 in 100 in jail....
Invoke sterilization
Re: 1 in 100 in jail....
[QUOTE=Jenks;573779]decriminalize drugs. problem solved.[/QUOTE] I second that!
Most of the current prision population is non violent drug offenders. Sadly many of them will do as much time or more than a rapist or child molester.
Brovo Uncle Sam!
Re: 1 in 100 in jail....
The idea of jail serving to rehabilitate the criminal is a farce.
So what is so bad about Penal colonies? Lets set aside a few thousand acres in North Dakota or Wyoming, Put up a high fence and guard towers and lets these fucks sort it out for themselves. If the point of prison is to teach a man to be a contributing member of society, I can't think of a better way. If you can't find a way to make yourself useful to "society" in a penal colony, you won't last long.
Re: 1 in 100 in jail....
^^^ how would you decide who got out? and when. by your scheme those that survive and then released would be the hardest of the hardened criminals? no?
Re: 1 in 100 in jail....
Jailing in this country is nothing other than revenge. We look forward to sending criminals to jails where they'll be subject to rapes, beatings and many other life-threatening situations, because "they get what they deserve" and then when they get out and are completely ill-adjusted to function in our society, we again make it damn near impossible to have any semblance of a normal life with any reasonable job...I mean who the hell wants to higher an ex-con when you know what they've been through?!
If anything time in jail isn't a deterrent against crime, it intrinsically encourages more so ex-cons can go back to the one place they do know how to survive...pretty pathetic.
Re: 1 in 100 in jail....
[quote=Huggie Smiles;576573]^^^ how would you decide who got out? and when. by your scheme those that survive and then released would be the hardest of the hardened criminals? no?[/quote]
Well you could have different islands or whatever for different levels of criminals. Lifers are what I had in mind in thinking about the penal colony system.
[quote=rubyraks;576766]Jthen when they get out and are completely ill-adjusted to function in our society, we again make it damn near impossible to have any semblance of a normal life with any reasonable job....[/quote]
This is what makes me so mad about what we have in place now. There was a case a while back where they just caught I guy who had escaped from prison THIRTY years ago. He had been an upstanding citizen in the community since his escape. If the purpose of prison is rehabilitation, why does this guy need to go back to jail? Its retibution, just like you said Ruby, for something he did when he was 18 (I think it was larceny of some type), never mind the man he has become now.
Re: 1 in 100 in jail....
Yes, sadly, we are quite a vengeful society :(
Re: 1 in 100 in jail....
[QUOTE=rubyraks;578021]Yes, sadly, we are quite a vengeful society :([/QUOTE]
you think that's a bad thing? can you imagine what people would do if they walked around thinking there were no repercussions for their actions? it's not so much about revenge as it is "you knew what the consequences were."
sending someone to prison for revenge/consequences for violence = good
sending someone for 30 years for drugs/accidents (killing someone by running a red light?) / other non-violent/accidents = bad
Re: 1 in 100 in jail....
We have a prison-industrial complex in this country as public and especially private "corrections" grows. Many hundreds of thousands of jobs (state and federal) depend on it. Historically speaking, this is the largest percentage of inmantes any human society or nation has EVER had.
I wouldn't say that putting anyone in prison is "good," although it may be necessary. Ultimately, society cannot "make" any one person take responsibility for their crime even if they are sent to prison.
"Corrections" departments are about many things. Rehabilitation and correcting behaviour sadly aren't among them. Gangs like MS13 see prison as a place to earn their "degrees," stripes, and solidify their "badness."
Restorative justice programs in places like Australia and Europe are beginning to change age-old ideas of what justice means. Are we interested in changing behaviour for the better and addressing root causes of criminality? Or do we just want to feel vindicated that hopefully we have caused the criminal as much pain as perhaps we ourselves endured?
Every $1 spent on treatment of addicts will save $8 later on. Someday people will cringe at the thought of incarcerating non-violent addicts (50% plus prison population) for a HEALTH CARE problem!?! Sadly, we in the US still live in the dark ages as far as "corrections" are concerned.
Re: 1 in 100 in jail....
[QUOTE=rubyraks;576766]Jailing in this country is nothing other than revenge.[/QUOTE]
With the trend towards privatization of the prison system, jailing is also becoming a business- and that's scary.
Re: 1 in 100 in jail....
I swear...you guys are REALLY, REALLY crazy some of you (not naming names) cough, cough have got a seriously fucked up view of the world.
Re: 1 in 100 in jail....
I'm all for murderers, rapists, gangsters, and others of the sort being arrested, sentenced to prison, etc. But these incarceration trends reconfirm to me that there is just something unsustainable and broken in this system...
Keep in mind that this whole time that incarceration rates are going up, national crime rates have been persistently going [I]down[/I]... While some argue that the decrease in crime is evidence that this system is "working", it just doesn't seem plausible to me over such a long time period (economic welfare and other social trends could probably provide better explanation). And so I'm left to suspect that it's [I]policymakers,[/I] rather than criminals, who are driving these incarceration rates.
Re: 1 in 100 in jail....
[QUOTE=picklemonkey;578031][QUOTE=rubyraks;578021]Yes, sadly, we are quite a vengeful society :([/QUOTE]
you think that's a bad thing? can you imagine what people would do if they walked around thinking there were no repercussions for their actions? it's not so much about revenge as it is "you knew what the consequences were."
sending someone to prison for revenge/consequences for violence = good
sending someone for 30 years for drugs/accidents (killing someone by running a red light?) / other non-violent/accidents = bad[/QUOTE] ideally, I'd like to agree with you...
BUT...they do know what the consequences are and yet we have a higher percentage of our people in jail than any other country in the world...and that includes all those countries that don't let "you kn[o]w what the consequences" are of your actions, but they'll kill you anyways...what does that really say for the deterrent nature of prison in the US?
Re: 1 in 100 in jail....
[quote=rubyraks;579358]ideally, I'd like to agree with you...
BUT...they do know what the consequences are and yet we have a higher percentage of our people in jail than any other country in the world...and that includes all those countries that don't let "you kn[o]w what the consequences" are of your actions, but they'll kill you anyways...what does that really say for the deterrent nature of prison in the US?[/quote]
You are right on rubyraks. Same goes for the death penalty - there is no deterrence efffect. When was the last time a criminal went to the law library before committing a crime to check the statutes first? Even if they know someone who went to jail for the same crime they are about to commit, they still don't think they will get caught.
Most people, especially when young, have a "bulletproof - it can't happen to me" attitude. I can attest to this personally. Some people carry this attitude all the way to old age, but most will get some sort of wakeup call. Zero tolerance for first offenders where the penalties are harsh - that is a total failure. Sending someone to prison only reinforces bad behaviour, in most cases.