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Kosovo: the new European country

33 durable postsStarted 2008-02-17Latest 2008-03-10
#51100Post 1 of 33

[CENTER][IMG]http://www.insurancebroadcasting.com/091307-p4.jpg[/IMG] [/CENTER]

[quote]Kosovo has formally declared its independence from Serbia and become the world's newest state in a move opposed by Serbia and Russia but backed by many western governments.

Lawmakers in the legislature of the former Serbian province approved the declaration of independence at an extraordinary session Sunday afternoon. It was read out in Albanian, Serbian and English by Prime Minister Hashim Thaci before the approval of state symbols including Kosovo's new national flag and anthem.

Thaci said that Kosovo was an "independent and democratic" state, adding: "From this day onwards, Kosovo is proud, independent and free." [/quote][URL]http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/02/17/kosovo.independence/index.html[/URL]

I'm actually quite happy that Kosovo finally has declared independance under the conditions set by the EU (protection of minorities, guarantee of civil rights and freedom, ...), Russia of course is opposed, but the EU is already sending a mission to Kosovo, so I guess it's only a matter of tossing some euro's/dollars to Putin in order to shut him up.

Then again, it's quite a dangerous precedent for other regions like South Osetia.

#972266Post 2 of 33

Re: Kosovo: the new European country

There are many more regions than just South Osetia that will feel this event. Countries that refuse to acknowledge Kosovo independance include: Spain, Canada, Russia, Romania, Cyprus, Greece, Bulgaria and Slovakia...there are a few more. I'm not well enough informed right now.

"What message are we sending to multi-ethnic societies or to other states that are facing ethnic issues or frozen conflicts?" Romanian President Traian Basescu told a conference in Brussels.

In my opinion the policy of self-determination is complete lunacy and it was tried at the end of ww1 and failed. As Shaun Connery said if Kosovo can be independent so can Scotland.

What of Africa? There are so many "nations" (with far more actual right as their borders were defined by es-colonial masters and are cause of destabilization) that crave international recognition there and have been refused the same by the west.

Putin can use the Kosovo precedent to basically restore the Soviet Union to pretty much its old size. Many ethnic Russians living in near abroad have asked for their territory to be added to that of Russia...furthermore even if there is minority of ethnic Russians in a certain region a country like Russia could organize resistance in the region and claim that ethnic Russians are being molested by the government (just like Hitler with Czechoslovakia) and invade the country.

I am neither against nor for Kosovo independence because I am serbian but I am against it because I have a brain and know what the reality of the situation is and the political implications of the same. Kosovo's "liberation" army was funded by drug, arms and people smugglers. Those same people are in government there now - so what future can a country have with such institutions of power? Will this not further destabilize the region, Europe and the world??

This will bring hope to all TERRORIST organizations worldwide that their cause can be a successful one.

I am honestly sorry that Serbia was unfortunate enough to have a president such as Sloban Milosevic who allowed and in many ways caused the situation in the region to escalate and result in the break up of Yugoslavia followed by the break up of Serbia and Montenegro to the the current break up of Serbia itself. Nevertheless knowing the background of the particular issue very well I think I can safely say that I am fundamentally AGAINST this type of Kosovo independence.

If it is to became independent it should be done under strict control of the EU (who in actual fact doesn't care to do so and this will haunt it later on) to assure that the institutions of government are truly independent and democratic and to assure that ALL criminal and corrupt elements are removed from positions of ANY power. (this is complete opposite of what has happened)

p.s. its not a question of tossing some euro/dollar to Putin for him to shut up as there aren't enough Euros-dollars for that. Its a question of standing by as he absorbs one bordering nation after another into Russia as he has vowed to do in case of Kosovo's independence.

#972287Post 3 of 33

Re: Kosovo: the new European country

i'm feeling a very anti putin vibe here.

#972293Post 4 of 33

Re: Kosovo: the new European country

[quote=Jenks;569873]i'm feeling a very anti putin vibe here.[/quote]

No quite on the contrary I am all for Putin. He has done and is doing great things for Russia, however it has to be noted that all these things are not so good for America and the EU. I only wrote what I did above as that is what I believe will happen and that is what the west rightfully fears.

Each leader of a country does what it believes is best for his country...naturally.

#975365Post 5 of 33

Re: Kosovo: the new European country

[QUOTE=KinKyJ;569830] I'm actually quite happy that Kosovo finally has declared independance under the conditions set by the EU (protection of minorities, guarantee of civil rights and freedom, ...), Russia of course is opposed, but the EU is already sending a mission to Kosovo, so I guess it's only a matter of tossing some euro's/dollars to Putin in order to shut him up.[/QUOTE]

And I'm actually quite happy to say that you are moron and instead of brain in your head you have CNN news. Sorry mate but you don't know anything at all about what's really happen in this region. For your information Albanians from Kosovo are bunch of savages who actually lives in some kind of middle age society with vendetta ( blood feud between two families ) and major economic sector is drug smuggling :roll:

P.S. Don't be ridiculous Vladimir Putin is not a stupid drunk Boris Yeltsin

#975379Post 6 of 33

Re: Kosovo: the new European country

[quote=Zen Master;569949] For your information Albanians from Kosovo are bunch of savages who actually lives in some kind of middle age society with vendetta ( blood feud between two families ) and major economic sector is drug smuggling :roll:[/quote]And you got that from where? My girlfriend is an Albanian from Macedonia and I know plenty of Kosovarians. You're talking crap, really.

And FYI, during the balkan war Nato bombed the crap out of the Serbian army in Kosovo, didn't see the Russians do anything else but whine about it...

However I agree with Shpira that the independance could open pandora's box. But then again, no independance would ultimately lead to new armed conflicts.

#975393Post 7 of 33

Re: Kosovo: the new European country

[QUOTE=KinKyJ;569963]And you got that from where? My girlfriend is an Albanian from Macedonia . [/QUOTE]

This information explains a lot of things. Did you know that Albanians from Kosovo (Balli Kombëtar) was one of major Adolf Hitler allies in this region,ask your girlfriend what's main reason for that . Did you know that Kosovo is Serbian Jerusalem. Please just shut up if your knowledge is so weak. Ask some Germans from Hamburg what they think about Abanians from Kosovo, ask who are major drug dealers in Hamburg, ask who have almost all whore house in Hamburg, just ask. Ask some Macedonians from Macedonia what they think about Albanians, do they maybe also think that Albanians are savages ?!?

#975403Post 8 of 33

Re: Kosovo: the new European country

The Italians were Hitler's allies too, let's shoot them all.

Most Moroccans I know that moved to Belgium are dealing drugs, let's shoot all the Moroccans too.

And since we're talking about history and shooting: did you know that if you were caught teaching Albanian in Kosovo before the Balkan war, you were shot on the spot?

To be honest, most Macedonians I've talked to don't think all Albanians are scum.

Anything else mr generalisation?

#975423Post 9 of 33

Re: Kosovo: the new European country

none of you two is objective. no point further addressing the topic.

#975702Post 10 of 33

Re: Kosovo: the new European country

KinkyJ don't talk about things that you really dont have any idea about... Think with your head not your dick...

[URL]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkgHkxIfgBc[/URL]

#975714Post 11 of 33

Re: Kosovo: the new European country

[quote=Skotina;570348]KinkyJ don't talk about things that you really dont have any idea about... Think with your head not your dick...

[URL]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkgHkxIfgBc[/URL][/quote]

nicely said

#975811Post 12 of 33

Re: Kosovo: the new European country

[quote=Skotina;570348]KinkyJ don't talk about things that you really dont have any idea about... Think with your head not your dick...

[URL]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkgHkxIfgBc[/URL][/quote]I could reply to that by posting some youtube movies about Serbian war crimes, but that would be lame, don't you think? Both sides fucked up royally.

#976056Post 13 of 33

Re: Kosovo: the new European country

Oh I am not saying that Serbs didn't do terrible stuff too, but the difference is that they were protecting them selfs, their houses, monasteries... Serbs didn't go to Albania to kill and pillage!! Serbian monasteries were on Kosovo long long ago. But you don't know anything of Serbian history, obviously...

#976066Post 14 of 33

Re: Kosovo: the new European country

:SuckeyTo:

Which country in the world would act differently if someone tried to rob her of part of its territory ? What would you do ?

What makes you happy ?

#976100Post 15 of 33

Re: Kosovo: the new European country

^^ Great post!

I'm no expert on ethnic relations within the former Yugoslavian area, but I can see just from this thread alone why things were so fucked up there. To Zen Master and company: It is [I]never[/I] smart to assert your knowledge by flatly claiming "[I]all[/I] people of group X are savages".

#976312Post 16 of 33

Re: Kosovo: the new European country

Actually I am really happy that Kosovo declarer their independence, since 1912 that Serbia separated from Albania… people of Kosovo suffered, dead, massacred from Serbian Army headmost Milosevic and others , which I think its complete out of human rights.. a country from almost 3 million Kosovo Albanian and only 10 percent minority. Here is the link that confirm that Albania were most centuries before than Serbia.. [IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/75/EpirusEduMap.jpg[/IMG]

[URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albania[/URL]

[URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo[/URL]

#976503Post 17 of 33

Re: Kosovo: the new European country

[quote=attractive;571033]Actually I am really happy that Kosovo declarer their independence, since 1912 that Serbia separated from Albania…[/quote]

Hahaha... you need to do some real studying, not read stuff on wiki. Serbia never separated from Albania, cause it gained its independence long before. South Slavs (I think its translated like this) came to Balkan peninsula in 6th and 7th century and from 9th century Serb tribes are trying to unite and gain independence from Easter Roman Empire. In 12th century they finally manage it under the name Raska and under the king Stefan Nemanja. This is a very simplified and short version, and if you like it and are interested try to do some real reading on your own. Btw try books not only web.

#976507Post 18 of 33

Re: Kosovo: the new European country

Shit is really heating up imo: [url]http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/02/21/kosovo.independence/index.html[/url]

It doesn't always have to be muslims burning Danish embassies I guess [/sarcasm]

#976519Post 19 of 33

Re: Kosovo: the new European country

sooo...have we started placing bets yet on when civil war breaks out again?

#976529Post 20 of 33

Re: Kosovo: the new European country

lmao, i want that war. the true world war. force everyone to get on the same page. one rule. every UN nation should just go out and demolish the others, form a giant, common goaled, rule, with zero laws based in any religion outside of the idea of dont kill, dont steal.

#976698Post 21 of 33

Re: Kosovo: the new European country

[QUOTE=thesightless;571271]lmao, i want that war. the true world war. force everyone to get on the same page. one rule. every UN nation should just go out and demolish the others, form a giant, common goaled, rule, with zero laws based in any religion outside of the idea of dont kill, dont steal.[/QUOTE]

Good lord, dude. :shock:

#976745Post 22 of 33

Re: Kosovo: the new European country

[quote=toasty;571468]Good lord, dude. :shock:[/quote]

what? !?

do you want something to be drawn out and painful to deal with? or just get into it, get it done, and be over with it.

im thinking kinda along the lines of how china was formed. one guy got up, ripped the shit out of everybody who was fighting, and implemented a uniform rule.

why the fuck not? all this shit going on... sadly, north america and aussie are the land masses without a war or large civil unrest. can we just force everyone to get together.

all this shit caused by stupid religious and ideological differences, at this point, should be just be squashed out all at once so we can move on.

or do you prefer to have to listen to another 40 years of ... (working geographically)

the basque region, kosovo, parisian rioting, turkey's issues with greece, and iraq, and its internal struggle with islam and secularism, the middle fucking east and its shithole, iran and nukes, russia feeling hard times cuz the EU and US want to get together more, isreal and gaza, the entire african continnent outside of the one fucking country that was brought up by the brits, pakistan VS india, etc etc etc etc etc etc

lets jsut get it out of the way now, so maybe, our kids can actually enjoy life.:|:what

#976797Post 23 of 33

Re: Kosovo: the new European country

^^You know, advocating world war, the annihilation of all countries, virtual anarchy, etc. -- just a little much.

I'm not saying anything, I'm just sayin'...

:unsure:

#976832Post 24 of 33

Re: Kosovo: the new European country

if it took two years of complete world war for peace for the rest of my life, do it.

like testing animals for vaccines, sacrafice a few for the benifit of all. lol.

im just so tired of hearing and readding all the sheer stupidity of this planet and reasoning behind it. i have said it before, i want to see a fucking cow descend from the skies, say he is god, prove it, and then the next day, have an alien invasion. that way , on the third day, we all might have something to rally around.

#976838Post 25 of 33

Re: Kosovo: the new European country

^^ unfortunately, we tried this approach already twice and the stupidity and religion and ideology always seems to keep coming back ;)

#976926Post 26 of 33

Re: Kosovo: the new European country

[quote=Skotina;571245]Hahaha... you need to do some real studying, not read stuff on wiki. Serbia never separated from Albania, cause it gained its independence long before. South Slavs (I think its translated like this) came to Balkan peninsula in 6th and 7th century and from 9th century Serb tribes are trying to unite and gain independence from Easter Roman Empire. In 12th century they finally manage it under the name Raska and under the king Stefan Nemanja. This is a very simplified and short version, and if you like it and are interested try to do some real reading on your own. Btw try books not only web.[/quote]

its just one international source that I've found out i read books as well but not serbian books haha they always lying about Kosovo History something that never happened well why you just accept that basically its not your land there and try to go further with new fashion country since Seriban with this video tells [URL]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VWZoKWBYXE[/URL] that they are living in 20th Century Com oon :S and every one knows even history tells that Slavs separated and closed Albanian borders and separated Kosovo from Albania since then they definitely only killed innocent people and children aswell yet you guys dont know what Miloseciv did in Kosovo how he massacred children like slaughterer :S

#976955Post 27 of 33

Re: Kosovo: the new European country

Lets all argue..... :roll:

#976958Post 28 of 33

Re: Kosovo: the new European country

[quote=attractive;571732]its just one international source that I've found out i read books as well but not serbian books haha they always lying about Kosovo History something that never happened well why you just accept that basically its not your land there and try to go further with new fashion country since Seriban with this video tells [URL]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VWZoKWBYXE[/URL] that they are living in 20th Century Com oon :S and every one knows even history tells that Slavs separated and closed Albanian borders and separated Kosovo from Albania since then they definitely only killed innocent people and children aswell yet you guys dont know what Miloseciv did in Kosovo how he massacred children like slaughterer :S[/quote]

ur an idiot.

#976999Post 29 of 33

Re: Kosovo: the new European country

[quote=attractive;571732]its just one international source that I've found out i read books as well but not serbian books haha they always lying about Kosovo History something that never happened well why you just accept that basically its not your land there and try to go further with new fashion country since Seriban with this video tells [URL]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VWZoKWBYXE[/URL] that they are living in 20th Century Com oon :S and every one knows even history tells that Slavs separated and closed Albanian borders and separated Kosovo from Albania since then they definitely only killed innocent people and children aswell yet you guys dont know what Miloseciv did in Kosovo how he massacred children like slaughterer :S[/quote]

Dude you suck, you are talking about Kosovo and Albania before there was Kosovo and Albania. I told you that Serbs gained independence from Eastern Roman Empire in 12th century. There was no Albania then... Serbs did not separate Kosovo from Albania, it was Serbian to start with.

And I am definitely an idiot cause I am having discussions with idiots like Attractive... i am off

#977181Post 30 of 33

Re: Kosovo: the new European country

[QUOTE=Miroslav;570795]^^ Great post! To Zen Master and company: It is [I]never[/I] smart to assert your knowledge by flatly claiming "[I]all[/I] people of group X are savages".[/QUOTE]

You are absolutely right. I'm overreacting, and deeply apologize for that. But everything else that Shpira and Skotina said about history of that region is 100 percent truth

#979532Post 31 of 33

Re: Kosovo: the new European country

[quote=Skotina;571815]Dude you suck, you are talking about Kosovo and Albania before there was Kosovo and Albania. I told you that Serbs gained independence from Eastern Roman Empire in 12th century. There was no Albania then... Serbs did not separate Kosovo from Albania, it was Serbian to start with.

And I am definitely an idiot cause I am having discussions with idiots like Attractive... i am off[/quote]

dude iam really happy that accapted that oyu are stupid.. now listen.. My whole comment above is for 20th century’s until today… Serbs migrated to the territories of modern Kosovo in the 7th century, but did not fully incorporate them into the Serbian realm until the early 13th century. The Serbian defeat at the Battle of Kosovo in 1389 led to five centuries of Ottoman rule, during which large numbers of Turks and Albanians moved to Kosovo. By the end of the 19th century, Albanians replaced the Serbs as the dominant ethnic group in Kosovo. Serbia reacquired control over Kosovo from the Ottoman Empire during the First Balkan War (1912), and after World War II (1945) the government of the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia led by Josip Broz TITO reorganized Kosovo as an autonomous province within the constituent republic of Serbia. Over the next four decades, Kosovo Albanians lobbied for greater autonomy and Kosovo was granted the status almost equal to that of a republic in the 1974 Yugoslav Constitution. Despite the legislative concessions, Albanian nationalism increased in the 1980s leading to nationalist riots and calls for Kosovo's independence. Serbs in Kosovo complained of mistreatment and Serb nationalist leaders, such as Slobodan MILOSEVIC, exploited those charges to win support among Serbian voters, many of whom viewed Kosovo as their cultural heartland. Under MILOSEVIC's leadership, Serbia instituted a new constitution in 1989 that drastically curtailed Kosovo's autonomy and Kosovo Albanian leaders responded in 1991 by organizing a referendum that declared Kosovo independent from Serbia. The MILOSEVIC regime carried out repressive measures against the Albanians in the early 1990s as the unofficial government of Kosovo, led by Ibrahim RUGOVA, tried to use passive resistance to gain international assistance and recognition of its demands for independence. In 1995, Albanians dissatisfied with RUGOVA's nonviolent strategy created the Kosovo Liberation Army and launched an insurgency. In 1998, MILOSEVIC authorized a counterinsurgency campaign that resulted in massacres and massive expulsions of ethnic Albanians by Serbian military, police, and paramilitary forces. The international community tried to resolve the conflict peacefully, but MILOSEVIC rejected the proposed international settlement - the Rambouillet Accords - leading to a three-month NATO bombing of Serbia beginning in March 1999, which forced Serbia to withdraw its military and police forces from Kosovo in June 1999. UN Security Council Resolution 1244 (1999) placed Kosovo under a transitional administration, the UN Interim Administration Mission in Kosovo (UNMIK), pending a determination of Kosovo's future status. Under the resolution, Serbia's territorial integrity was protected, but it was UNMIK who assumed responsibility for governing Kosovo. In 2001, UNMIK promulgated a Constitutional Framework, which established Kosovo's Provisional Institutions of Self-Government (PISG), and in succeeding years UNMIK increasingly devolved responsibilities to the PISG. A UN-led process began in late 2005 to determine Kosovo's future status. Negotiations held intermittently between 2006 and 2007 on issues related to decentralization, religious heritage, and minority rights failed to yield a resolution between Serbia's willingness to grant a high degree of autonomy and the Albanians' call for full independence for Kosovo. On 17 February 2008, the Kosovo Assembly declared its independence from Serbia.

put your @$$ down and work for with new culture of EU ;)

source: cia, gov

#979538Post 32 of 33

Re: Kosovo: the new European country

^^dude. haven't read that, but I do have a friendly suggestion:

[IMG]http://www.larc.uci.edu/lewc/Symbol1.jpg[/IMG]

#984276Post 33 of 33

Re: Kosovo: the new European country

[quote=attractive;574710]dude iam really happy that accapted that oyu are stupid.. now listen.. My whole comment above is for 20th century’s until today… Serbs migrated to the territories of modern Kosovo in the 7th century, but did not fully incorporate them into the Serbian realm until the early 13th century. The Serbian defeat at the Battle of Kosovo in 1389 led to five centuries of Ottoman rule, during which large numbers of Turks and Albanians moved to Kosovo. By the end of the 19th century, Albanians replaced the Serbs as the dominant ethnic group in Kosovo. Serbia reacquired control over Kosovo from the Ottoman Empire during the First Balkan War (1912), and after World War II (1945) the government of the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia led by Josip Broz TITO reorganized Kosovo as an autonomous province within the constituent republic of Serbia. Over the next four decades, Kosovo Albanians lobbied for greater autonomy and Kosovo was granted the status almost equal to that of a republic in the 1974 Yugoslav Constitution. Despite the legislative concessions, Albanian nationalism increased in the 1980s leading to nationalist riots and calls for Kosovo's independence. Serbs in Kosovo complained of mistreatment and Serb nationalist leaders, such as Slobodan MILOSEVIC, exploited those charges to win support among Serbian voters, many of whom viewed Kosovo as their cultural heartland. Under MILOSEVIC's leadership, Serbia instituted a new constitution in 1989 that drastically curtailed Kosovo's autonomy and Kosovo Albanian leaders responded in 1991 by organizing a referendum that declared Kosovo independent from Serbia. The MILOSEVIC regime carried out repressive measures against the Albanians in the early 1990s as the unofficial government of Kosovo, led by Ibrahim RUGOVA, tried to use passive resistance to gain international assistance and recognition of its demands for independence. In 1995, Albanians dissatisfied with RUGOVA's nonviolent strategy created the Kosovo Liberation Army and launched an insurgency. In 1998, MILOSEVIC authorized a counterinsurgency campaign that resulted in massacres and massive expulsions of ethnic Albanians by Serbian military, police, and paramilitary forces. The international community tried to resolve the conflict peacefully, but MILOSEVIC rejected the proposed international settlement - the Rambouillet Accords - leading to a three-month NATO bombing of Serbia beginning in March 1999, which forced Serbia to withdraw its military and police forces from Kosovo in June 1999. UN Security Council Resolution 1244 (1999) placed Kosovo under a transitional administration, the UN Interim Administration Mission in Kosovo (UNMIK), pending a determination of Kosovo's future status. Under the resolution, Serbia's territorial integrity was protected, but it was UNMIK who assumed responsibility for governing Kosovo. In 2001, UNMIK promulgated a Constitutional Framework, which established Kosovo's Provisional Institutions of Self-Government (PISG), and in succeeding years UNMIK increasingly devolved responsibilities to the PISG. A UN-led process began in late 2005 to determine Kosovo's future status. Negotiations held intermittently between 2006 and 2007 on issues related to decentralization, religious heritage, and minority rights failed to yield a resolution between Serbia's willingness to grant a high degree of autonomy and the Albanians' call for full independence for Kosovo. On 17 February 2008, the Kosovo Assembly declared its independence from Serbia.

put your @$$ down and work for with new culture of EU ;)

source: cia, gov[/quote]

Half true ....half bullshit try expanding your sources a little bit. Using an internet site made by the government who bombed the country described is bound to be "slightly" one sided. History before 180 is pretty well described although you are missing some important bits of information in the Tito era...I am not gonna give any history lessons to anyone because who ever makes up their mind simply by reading this thread is to put it in light terms retarded. Go read a book don't use the internet and maybe talk to some impartial people.

p.s. something to think about...do you really think if Serbia was in full scale war in 91-93 with Croatia and Bosnia and if the government i.e. Milosevic REALLY wanted to "ethnically" cleanse Kosovo that it would be a difficult task??

it might sound harsh but believe me if the government thought that the Kosovo problem should be solved it would have solved it in 93-4...and there would be no independent Kosovo...so in reality the "struggle" for independence is more to do with Milosevic and his incopentanc as a politician which was exploited by a terrorist organization along with some help from the USA which wanted to accomplish some objectives such as military base in Kosovo which was rejected by Milosevic and curbing Serbian dominance in the region.

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