Any predictions on how they will do?

Re: Bush Kerry Debate

Kerry vs. Bush ... whoever wins ... we lose. Kerry makes 'promises' while Bush embraces his 'stay the course' BS. A bunch of empty rhetoric designed to entice the 'right' and 'left' into believing their candidate is the one. Is it that hard to see thru Kerry or Bush that there is nothing really genuine about what they say compared to that of Kucinich and Dean????? I want to hear some concrete plans about the environment and economy and healthcare ... I need to be inspired by the speaker, not by his salon tan or 'dumb-down' white collar 'plain-spoken-kinda-fella' attitude, but by true wisdom and passion (as Kucinich and Dean had) such that even "reverse speach" hoaxes would not be in anyone's favor but that of the PEOPLE...no one else...not the MILITARY,MEDIA,CORPORATIONS,you name it.

-Jun_K

Re: Bush Kerry Debate

^well said.

[quote=Jun_K";p="57307]I want to hear some concrete plans about the environment and economy and healthcare[/quote]

there aren't any. :|

Re: Bush Kerry Debate

they shouldn't even been called debates. all the questions have to be submitted prior to the debates so they can prepare for them.

it should be called an infomercial.

Re: Bush Kerry Debate

I hope I'm wrong, but here's my predicition:

Kerry, in love with the sound of his own voice, will be unable to resist the temptation to provide long-winded answers to questions which are indecipherable to the average voter and impossible for the press to cover because they do not lend themselves to the "sound bites" the media loves to use because they are more entertaining than actual discussion of policy and issues.

Meanwhile, regardless of what Kerry ever says, Bush will state that Kerry has taken yet another new position. That seems to be his schtick nowadays -- the flip-flop label stuck, so Bush continues with his "if I keep saying it enough it will eventually become fact" method of repeating the same charge over and over and over again. Oh, and there will be a lot of arrogant chuckling on Bush's part, too.

Because most people wait until after the debates to listen to the spin doctors tell them who won, and because the GOP tends to do a better job of having people that will proclaim victory regardless of the outcome, Bush will win.

There are two things that give me some hope, although they are both based upon what I have heard and not what I have seen, so who knows if I have actual reason to be hopeful or not.

1. Kerry evidently likes to see the horse's ass before he starts his charge, and he's squarely behind one now. I have heard that he does a great job in debates when he is behind.
2. Although Bush has had a large amount of success in debates, he does not do quite as well when he is the incumbent and cannot protray himself as an outsider.

Kerry, if you're out there listening, please pull something out of your ass and win this debate.

"We feel like we're in a good position in this debate ... because the president knows what he thinks, why he thinks the way that he does, what he wants to do in the future, where he wants to lead the nation, and that stands in stark contrast to his opponent," said Mary Matalin, an adviser to President Bush's campaign.

ummmmm DUH! Where the hell do they find these idiots...

it should be very interesting

you ever tie yourself to a back of a car, when it does not work? yea. You might as well throw rocks in the street.

Alas, I think that toasty probably has it right. The democrats don't have (and never really have had in recent years) much of an idea of being media-savvy. Kerry is going to be too long-winded to be accessible, and Bush is going to hound on Kerry's "inconsistencies". The Republican spin doctors are going to jump on it afterwards (they are excellent at that) and give the common perception that Bush won and Kerry switched sides once again on any issue he talked about.

Whatever the case, I'm definitly going to stay up and watch tonight's debate (starts at something like 2am German time). I might have to down half a bottle of Jack before it starts, though - nothing like seeing Skeletor vs. Georgey The Moron facing off while rip-roaring drunk. :D

Might also make it easier to swallow - whoever wins, we're still fucked.

I think the VP debate will be much more interesting.
"Ambulance Chaser vs. Death's Door Dick"

haha...Krelm, the vp debate I will certainly have front row seats. nice nicknames too.

[quote=FM";p="57535]"We feel like we're in a good position in this debate ... because the president knows what he thinks, why he thinks the way that he does, what he wants to do in the future, where he wants to lead the nation, and that stands in stark contrast to his opponent," said Mary Matalin, an adviser to President Bush's campaign.

ummmmm DUH! Where the hell do they find these idiots...[/quote]

You can find one in Mass. :wink:

it's expected that over 50 million people will watch tonight's debate...

well at least some people still have a vested interest...

i work ... so i will miss most of it. on my break i will watch to laugh a little ... perhaps even shake my head.

as bad as knowing before hand you are going to a really bad movie. you look for something ... anything ...

[quote=";p="58208] as bad as knowing before hand you are going to a really bad movie. you look for something ... anything ... [/quote]

It sort of begs for viewer participation MST3K style, doesn't it? ;)

lol. sure does.

Im currently watching this...

How many times is Bush gonna play this "flip-flop" card? He's also used the "wrong place, wrong time...." line 3 times already and I'm sure some speech writer put that together for him.

Kerry is destroying Bush imo...sadly.

I was hoping Bush would have come to the table with a little better game, but jeez man, you stuttering fuck, SPIT IT OUT!

ok, whew, got that out of my system.

Re: Bush Kerry Debate

Just finished watching and if I had to pick a winner I'd go with Kerry. He looked calmer and had good responses to the President's accusations and rebuttals. At the DNC, Kerry looked nervous and not confident. I didn't get a sense of nervousness(slightly) and he was well spoken. The President repeated himself many times and had more of a simple ineffective message than Kerry did.

Unfortunately, I don't see much change happening no matter who wins this election. Both candidates agree on Iraq and spending more time and lives there. Kerry seems as hawkish as Bush does. Bush is more of the same per Kerry and Kerry is tax and increase the military which are a drain on the economy.

Some say this is the most important election of our generation. I'm starting to think the Election in 2000 was the most important.

Hello, I think Kerry won as well. I love Kerry............can't stand his mug though.......At least he doesn't look like the guy from MAD Magazine.

what kinda avatar is that swanka?

Swanka?

[quote=SickBoy";p="58424]what kinda avatar is that swanka?[/quote]

It is a picture of Wayne at the best damn party of his life!! I have no shame.......The lighting may be lame, but WTFC's????!!!!!!

Does my answer quench your thirst for Wayne knowledge?

Re: Bush Kerry Debate

[quote=superdave";p="58418]The President repeated himself many times and had more of a simple ineffective message than Kerry did..[/quote]

[quote=neoee";p="58392]How many times is Bush gonna play this "flip-flop" card? He's also used the "wrong place, wrong time...." line 3 times already and I'm sure some speech writer put that together for him.[/quote]

This is the one thing I hate about Bush the most...he repeats himself [b]ENDLESSY!!!!![/b]

Everyone always talk about how good Bush is in debates. Well, I personally don't see it. I've said for the longest time that he is not a good speaker. I cringe at least 10 times everytime I watch him give a speech. How many times can he use the word "freedom" in one speech??? He is in desperate need of a new speech writer.

Never the less, someones abitlity to speak does not mean as much to me as what they do. The guy can't speak..but at least he means what he says. He just doesn't say it very well.

If I had to pick a winner...I couldn't. Seemed like more of the same to me. Kerry is a flip-flopper, Bush is out of touch with what is really going on in Iraq and on and on.

Yawn. Wake me up when someone actually has something new to say.

You know, for the first time this election season, I actually feel pretty good about Kerry. He was going to get my vote regardless, but he exceeded my expectations and Bush did not live up to his reputation, IMHO. Bush looked ill-prepared and flustered at times.

I'm biased, obviously, but I really think Kerry scored some points tonight. He didn't hit a long ball, but I do think he at least gave the folks that were leaning towards Bush something more to think about.

I'll be curious to hear other folks thoughts on it in the days ahead.

Looking forward to Edwards-Cheney...

[quote=toasty";p="58446]You know, for the first time this election season, I actually feel pretty good about Kerry. He was going to get my vote regardless...[/quote]

Yet you try to make it sound like us Bush supporters are following blindly. Basically, what you are saying is that all of this Kerry ass-licking you've been doing this whole time was for a candidate you weren't even sure about.

Sounds less like Kerry supporting and more like plain ol' Bush hating to me.

I amazingly managed to stay awake until 4:30 my time to watch the entire thing. From the outset, it looked like Kerry might have scored a few more points than Bush - no slam dunk win, but he appeared a little more poised and "with it" than Bush on some of the questions.

Points that stuck out...

Bush concentrated too fucking much on the whole flip-flop thing - he got to the point where he was just repeating himself needlessly. On the other side, Kerry seemed to do a good job of countering some of those criticisms decently well - he might gain some stability in the eyes of some.

I think Kerry will score [b]big[/b] points for his answer to the "biggest threat to national security" question. Very resolute about stopping nuclear proliferation. This was his biggest point in the entire debate, and I think this might come out as where people view him strongest on national security. Bush sort of fumbled the question in a way - he babbled quite a bit and didn't seem as strong as Kerry on this specific point.

Kerry had a bad habit of just [b]not answering the fucking question[/b]. He took any opportunity possible to bash on Bush - even when it was at the cost of giving a firm and decisive answer (probably didn't have one to give). I counted only 3 (or 4) times in the entire debate where he gave any specific instances of what he would actually do differently than Bush. But this has been my major complaint of Kerry's campaign for the past few months - he is [b]still[/b] going on the "anybody but Bush" ideology with his campaign and hasn't really done enough to show why [b]he[/b] is better.

Bush missed the point [b]a lot[/b]. Several instances where he didn't quite answser what was asked and just repeated himself. He had 3 or 4 stock answers that he just repeated over and over again. This might not sit so well with people. Yet he did seem quite amicable and down-to-earth, which is one of his strongest qualities with the public.

Both seemed equally hawkish. Kerry seemed to put a greater importance on anti-nuclear proliferations, so I have to wonder how he would react to the Iran or North Korea situations. If anything, Kerry looks to have a bigger boner for North Korea.

No matter who wins, we're in for more of the same. :(

Overall, I think Kerry will make some small gains from this debate. He barely eeked this one out, IMO. If he handles the other 2 similarly, we will once again have some suspense come Nov. 2.

Definitely looking forward to the other 2...

[quote=evangelion";p="58451] Yet you try to make it sound like us Bush supporters are following blindly.[/quote]

As to those "Bush supporters" that actually believe that everything is hunky dory here and abroad, well, yeah, that thought had occurred to me. I don't see how a person could rationally look at Bush's track record for the last four years apart from the few days following 9/11 and honestly think this guy is some sort of stud -- better than the alternative, maybe, but a great and awesome leader, no.

[quote=evangelion";p="58451] Basically, what you are saying is that all of this Kerry ass-licking you've been doing this whole time was for a candidate you weren't even sure about.

Sounds less like Kerry supporting and more like plain ol' Bush hating to me.[/quote]

I'm not sure what "Kerry ass-licking" you're referring to because most of what I post is more anti-Bush than pro-Kerry, but you're basically correct. If you look around the country, you'll find I'm not the only person out there that would take a bag of wet hair over Bush. What's your point?

Re: Bush Kerry Debate

That "flip flop" tag is specious beyond any defense. Kerry is a grown man. I should hope that he would have changed his mind a few times during his life. Goodbye Miserable Failure.

I agree with everyone on this board, we all watched the same thing, and it is agreed that kerry now might be living up to his 'underdog' 'come from behind' reputation. Everyone knows I support Bush, but I was uneasy in my seat many times as Bush was speaking. I've always enjoyed Bush's speaches, but he has to bring more articulation, and substance in these debates to keep his position.

Oh and VenomPoisonKelly, miserable failure because Bush wont let you and your 7 illegitamate kids stay on welfare the rest of your life. Shame for you. ADVICE: start judging the president on reality, not hypothetical or theoretical possibilities. Thanks, now back to your babies diapers.

Re: Bush Kerry Debate

[quote=HoneyBearKelly";p="58634]Kerry is a grown man. I should hope that he would have changed his mind a few times during his life. [/quote]

Could not have said it any better myself. Hell I changed my mind this morning about what cereal to eat; guess I can't be president now.

[quote=";p="58666]

Oh and VenomPoisonKelly, miserable failure because Bush wont let you and your 7 illegitamate kids stay on welfare the rest of your life. Shame for you. ADVICE: start judging the president on reality, not hypothetical or theoretical possibilities. Thanks, now back to your babies diapers. [/quote]son I'd call you an asshole but that would be giving other assholes a bad name. You know nothing about me and mercifully I know nothing about you. Let's keep it that way. Keep your personal attacks for the schoolyard.

Re: Bush Kerry Debate

Kerry definitely dominated this debate. He's been a let-down to me for a long time, but watching him made me feel for the first time (except for the DNC) that he's someone I could vote for, rather than just voting against Bush. He actually brought some passion (albeit not on a Dean/Kucinich scale) and was concise and confident. The President, on the other hand, seemed to be shrinking. He was downright incoherent at times. It's a shame that the strongest criticism he could come up with of Kerry is that Kerry criticized him. How can you be up for re-election and not expect your policies and decisions to be criticized? Perhaps there are people out there that forget that we live in a democracy and not the former Soviet Union, that being able to freely criticize a sitting president who is up for re-election is part of the very foundation of our country, and that is who this criticism was aimed at. To me, it's just consistent with this administration's Orwellian attempt to silence dissent.

How many times did Kerry just go rambling on about what he wanted to say, which was for the most part, a bunch of NOTHING, and avoid the actual question? I am not on either side as far as Bush v Kerry. I watched as an unbiased, open minded viewer. Bush stumbled quite a bit, but I thought made stronger points. Kerry, just stood there with a stupid smirk, yammering away about his "plans".. and when even asked for specifics, couldnt do anything but go on about a topic he had already discussed.
As far as speech writers.. if they had prepared speeches, it wouldnt be a debate.. right? Didnt the moderator in the opening say he wrote the ?'s and neither person had seen them prior to the debate? Also, if they had the answers prepared there would have been a lot les stumbling for words. Again, I am in no way into politics, so these comments, as I mentioned before, are just from my observations

Some might say that I shouldn't be talking about this since he will not be my president, but I believe that the next US president will be once again the world's president, and deffinetly after this debate I don't think there is a good one and a bad one.. I believe that both have almost nothing possitive to offer... this is a "not that bad" election... and IMO Kerry is not as bad as Bush... speaking from a Mexican point of view we rather have a (US) president who can speak by himself and make his own oppinions than a monkey who reads only the cards handed to him by his staff.. Bush has the only credit of gathering the whole world for one reason ... being against him....

Peace

[quote=unome";p="58790]How many times did Kerry just go rambling on about what he wanted to say, which was for the most part, a bunch of NOTHING, and avoid the actual question?[/quote]

Not very many.

[quote]Bush stumbled quite a bit, but I thought made stronger points.[/quote]

You remember any of them? I was sitting watching the same debate, so I think, but I must've had an OBE when he made them

[quote] Kerry, just stood there with a stupid smirk,[/quote]

And nothing about Bush's smirks which were blatantly directed at Sen. Kerry? Bush displayed the same arrogance that Vice President Gore was berated for during the 2000 debates.

[quote]yammering away about his "plans".. [/quote]

The purpose of the debate!

[quote]and when even asked for specifics, couldnt do anything but go on about a topic he had already discussed. [/quote]

Very tough to get into specifics when you're given 2 mins max. I think Kerry gave better responses because for the most part he summed it up as best as he could in the 2 minutes that he was alotted. He didn't constantly ask for rebuttals like the President did.

I'm wondering what to expect from the next two debates. This was supposed to be Bush's trump card -- foreign policy. At least one of the other debates focus strictly on domestic issues, during which Bush will have some 'splainin' to do.

The election has officially gotten interesting again.

[quote=skahound";p="59002][quote=unome";p="58790]How many times did Kerry just go rambling on about what he wanted to say, which was for the most part, a bunch of NOTHING, and avoid the actual question?[/quote]

Not very many.

[quote]Bush stumbled quite a bit, but I thought made stronger points.[/quote]

You remember any of them? I was sitting watching the same debate, so I think, but I must've had an OBE when he made them

[quote] Kerry, just stood there with a stupid smirk,[/quote]

And nothing about Bush's smirks which were blatantly directed at Sen. Kerry? Bush displayed the same arrogance that Vice President Gore was berated for during the 2000 debates.

[quote]yammering away about his "plans".. [/quote]

The purpose of the debate!

[quote]and when even asked for specifics, couldnt do anything but go on about a topic he had already discussed. [/quote]

Very tough to get into specifics when you're given 2 mins max. I think Kerry gave better responses because for the most part he summed it up as best as he could in the 2 minutes that he was alotted. He didn't constantly ask for rebuttals like the President did.[/quote]

AS I said, I am NOT into politics, and dont give a toss about either of these candidates. Those were just observations, thats all. Cheers for dissecting my post though, lol

I noticed W's smirks also, but maybe he was laughing at the fact his opponent looks like fucking Rocky Dennis from the movie Mask. Anyway, whatever, this is why I dont get into politics, everyone says a whole lot of nothing, other than what the OTHER guy is doing wrong.

VenomPoisonKelly, hmmm, not claiming to know anything about you, but when you start making irresponsible statements like 'goodbye miserable failure' you yourself are setting yourself up for failure. Your obviously uneducated and can't develop your own perspective. So now on before you go making erratic statements, keep the ball in your hands before you fumble, son.

As far as the presidents debate last night with the wind surfer, well lets just say it was like someone leaving an abnoxious fart in the middle of the board room, a bit self destructive...yet deeply satisfying!

[quote=PhAntoM MeNaCe";p="59161]Your obviously uneducated[/quote]

I'm assuming that you consider yourself more educated. If that were the case you would understand that the proper use of the first word in the aforementioned quote would have been "You're". Not trying to argue semantics here but you set yourself up for that one.

[quote]As far as the presidents debate last night[/quote]

I believe we're talking about the president in a possessive context so the appropriate use would have been: "president's"

[quote]with the wind surfer, well lets just say it was like someone leaving an abnoxious fart in the middle of the board room, a bit self destructive...yet deeply satisfying![/quote]

I have to hand it to you, that's a very responsible statement. It's definitely a simile I would use when discussing such a serious topic. And I won't even get on the topic of referring to another user as "VenomPoisonKelly" as opposed to that person's true user-name of "HoneyBearKelly".

[quote=unome";p="59113] Cheers for dissecting my post though, lol [/quote]

I do it because I love you! Hope all is well over in Tampa.

[quote=skahound";p="59206][quote=unome";p="59113] Cheers for dissecting my post though, lol [/quote]

I do it because I love you! Hope all is well over in Tampa.[/quote]

yes it is mate, thanks for asking :Bingo:

hope we have seen the last of these storms this year, i have parties to plan!