OK, my fellow politically engaged forum dwellers, I have a proposition:

Stop beating discussions dead by constantly accusing each other of being 'biased', thus discarding every single argument made.

Political discussions, or every other discussion for that matter, cannot generate any understanding or get people to start thinking about their own motives/prejudices when everything the other says is simply labelled biased. So my proposition to practice this is:

Explain to me, a Dutch student African Anthropology specializing in politics and development, a non-US-citizen, what Bush has done right, what he has done wrong, what Kerry says he will be doing right/different, and what Kerry will be doing (or did) wrong. No private stuff, just the politics. Foreign as well as domestic. And when I say foreign, I don't just mean Iraq; this world has more countries in it. No B-word allowed. If you use it, your post is hereby declared disqualified. I expect some real essay-postings now :wink:

Enlighten me.

Re: Lose the B-word

Well we can tell you what the B word is gonna do. But Kerry himself hasn't got a fucking clue. So that is a hard question to answer without being biased. :Rolling:

Re: Lose the B-word

[quote=Yao";p="54696]OK, my fellow politically engaged forum dwellers, I have a proposition:

Stop beating discussions dead by constantly accusing each other of being 'biased', thus discarding every single argument made.

Political discussions, or every other discussion for that matter, cannot generate any understanding or get people to start thinking about their own motives/prejudices when everything the other says is simply labelled biased. So my proposition to practice this is:

Explain to me, a Dutch student African Anthropology specializing in politics and development, a non-US-citizen, what Bush has done right, what he has done wrong, what Kerry says he will be doing right/different, and what Kerry will be doing (or did) wrong. No private stuff, just the politics. Foreign as well as domestic. And when I say foreign, I don't just mean Iraq; this world has more countries in it. No B-word allowed. If you use it, your post is hereby declared disqualified. I expect some real essay-postings now :wink:

Enlighten me.[/quote]

Amen

here's my essay. i love bush! :Naughty:

Re: Lose the B-word

Holy smackers, Jibgolly just passed the test! :Naughty:

Still....no arguments as of yet... :(

Re: Lose the B-word

[quote=Balanc3";p="54767]Well we can tell you what the B word is gonna do. But Kerry himself hasn't got a fucking clue. So that is a hard question to answer without being biased. :Rolling:[/quote]

Is it me or was the original poster referring to "biased" as the B-word? I don't think he meant Bush at all. After all how would you discuss what Bush has done right/wrong if you can't even refer to him by name?

Re: Lose the B-word

I don't really want to post a lengthy essay about why Bush is this country's worst president ever--- rather I'd prefer someone else just spout off the basic facts.

An absolutely essential website for this purpose is located here:

[url]http://www.wage-slave.org/scorecard.html[/url]

The Bush Scorecard of Evil shows all the vile, terrible acts the Bush White House has perpetrated-- unfortunately, it hasn't added anything new in about a year, but believe me over 3 years there are so many despicable acts that will keep you busy for awhile.

You'll notice that more than half of these things were barely even covered by our "press", and yet the site conveniently links to the actual press clippings where they appeared. Enjoy.

^^^ lol. you think that is a viable resource? and all the truth and honesty.

i bet you do. you sick fuck.

Re: Lose the B-word

No, I don't think it is. I KNOW it is. I'd like to see you prove a single FACT on there wrong. As I already mentioned, every single piece of information on there is backed up by a link to a reputable news source.

As usual, when you don't like something, you sit there and denounce it, instead of actually doing any research to prove otherwise. Full of sound and thunder, signifying nothing.

Re: Lose the B-word

Washington Post, NY Times, CNN, CBS...

reputable sources? :roll:

i know ... cbs is reputable ... right? =P

come on my friend, those are libeal media stations, of course they will in just cause for the anti-bush machine.

Then when, O, When WILL it be right Asdf? Don't tell me all of the media are liberal-owned except for Fox, I just won't buy it. Every fact is backed by a link; that doesn't nessecarily make it all true Lobster, but it's way better dan stating things without being able to back them up.

Asdf, instead of just discarding what Lobster said or pointed out in his link, maybe you should put some arguments against that. I know you can.

I'm still not able to explain to my Dutch friends what every candidate really stands for, and what the critiques on them are, exept for all the same stories returning all over this forum...

Grtz,

Yao

that is my point my friend. I can find sources to fight both sides of the blade, equally. There are many anti-liberal sites that invoke the same thought and feelings that have been stated by lobster. It does us no justice. Frankly the only really conservative "TV" media is Fox news. The rest is all slanted to left. Some more, some less. That is a very true fact my friend. The only really conservative media medium is "radio". I can only conclude the reason is that people are able to rebut and dissemble the non-truths out there.

That is the thing I dislike about politics. For every counter, there is a counter, and it is a perfect never ending circle. Both sides are equally very dirty, unjust, and manipulate the truth to their own cause. I freely speak this, and believe this. It is not so cut and dry no more, and frankly I am not sure it ever has been.

Perhaps because I am around so much Liberal Hype, it is has made me a little more swinging towards the left, but I assure if the right was as desperate as the left, I would be swinging towards them.

Re: Lose the B-word

Still you strike me as someone always trying to weigh out the arguments, and then forming your own opinion based on the information from both sides. That is admirable, and more people should do that. I always try to do it like that, but it's hard to get the right information or to distill the true stuff from all the rubbish that is thrown towards you.

I consider myself lucky that politics in my country are very much less polarized, and that the media here are very critical of every side. They burn down left-wing, right-wing and centered politicians all the same, heheh. And we had a MILF running for the Greens/Environmentalists...if she were our prime minister, we'd go to hell on domestic politics, but damn, if she was to visit she might just charm him out of going into Iraq! (maybe with a little help from her female assets)

:Naughty:

For a thread that is designed to avoid cries of "bias," there sure is a lot of discounting of source material because it is alleged to be biased. IMHO, it is as dangerous to discount something purely on this basis as it is to only get your information from sources that agree with your ideology. A media outlet can be biased as easily by what it chooses not to report as by the way it reports its stories.

yum. toast.

lol. i really try to stay even on the scale, but it hard because I am so swayed by my liberal counterparts, so it automatically makes hang right.

I am not perfect, nor do I expect to be. I take both sides in, but I will very quickly bash the left. I know it is not fair, but in my recorded day, I must deal with a lot of propaganda from the left, so I feel it is very natural and instinctive way to release my "positive" energy. lol. =P

you know balance the scale. now you know, and knowing is half the battle.

[quote=asdf_admin";p="55736]now you know, and knowing is half the battle.[/quote]

[img]http://www.starstore.com/acatalog/GI_Joe_4.jpg[/img]

ain't it the truth though?

how many countless battles have i fought with x-girlfriends, because I had no fucking clue what the issue was. I was being attacked when I had a fucking Halo over my head. Hesh.

Granted, with my current wife we just have sex. Solves it every time. lol.

Well, I can understand why this whole political circus just makes you want to ice-skate uphill, just to annoy all those who just go with the flow without questioning their own motives...

yes. i have a very difficult time for people just stating "because" ... it is such a primitive notion and thought. surely there are levels where "because" is adequate, but in politics, give me a break. It is so easy to be burned left or right, make your own choice, and define it. If you state that you believe and why ... I can not argue that point, nor disregard it. It is a value based upon some eloquent form of thought that has been evaluated by you as an individual. I have much respect for that.

brewing with emotion and fairness.

Re: Lose the B-word

If politics were like that, man...this world would be a different place I think. Maybe we'd even stop scaring off the Aliens?

haha. ain't that the truth. it is so sad to say this ... but i feel to unit as a world we would need aliens to attack us. would religion matter, would politics matter, would your decent, or what have you done matter? simply no. go get the bad guys.

... hesh.

the saddest thing i can think of, is the voter turnout in the USA. i don't know the exact numbers, but it's way less than 50%.

i don't understand if it's 1. people just don't care about the direction of their country, and just follow like sheep or 2. people are so fed up with their choices they think either "why bother" or "it doesn't matter" or 3. just too fucking lazy.

either way, the results are sad.

I am going to vote, even though i'm quite sick of all of this, and quite sick of the two choices i'm left with.

Part of me wants to go against my beliefs and vote for Kerry, knowing what a piece of shit he is, just so that we have change. Good or bad, it's still a change. I doubt he can accomplish much in 4 years anyway, then maybe my republican party will have someone worthy of my vote.

Or maybe i'll just vote for bush, and see if he can fuck things up further, and lead us closer to the revolution some say we need anyway. <not sure i want to live through that tho.

The other part of me thinks the groundwork bush has laid in the middle east, will eventually pay off, albeit after many more deaths, battles, invasions, etc. Is this the only way to reform? Hard to tell, and much too late imo.

One fear i have is that Bush can do more harm in the next 4 years than Kerry can, since Bush has had 4 years to set up his government, and can spend the next 4 years listening to his neanderthal administration stomping away what is left of real republican agenda so that my party is so unrecognizable, it'll be a bigger laugh than the Democratic party of today...<which is quite a laugh, holy hell what a mess.

I almost wish i didn't care. But i do, so onward with this mess. Either way, the next 4 years are going to be very interesting for the world.

*and yes, i have no clue what any of this has to do with this topic. it's a culmination of reading a lot of these topics and just picking a place to respond.

:roll:

Re: Lose the B-word

:RockOn:

Maybe it DOES take aliens to cut the crap. I'll try and signal with my flashlight tonite, who knows...

Or if they come from Venus, we'll all make sweet lovin'! I bet even Gsus and Mohammed and Buddha can appreciate a well shaped female body. Naked.

:Anal:

This sounds really hippie-like eh?

very well stated Jenks. I am in the same boat you are ... on top of it I have a newborn in my life and have washed away my future, for it is all about her, and what world "we" will leave her.

it saddens me. it really does. i love this world so much, and love the people and everything on it. i do not understand many things on this planet, and perhaps I am glad I do not. We all have some power, and that power is to make this place a better one. Be it big or small, a gesture of kindness, gratitude, or simply a thank you. It does make the world go round and make the sun brighter.

That has been my focus lately, the simplicity of life and what we all have forgotten.

Re: Lose the B-word

[quote]This sounds really hippie-like eh[/quote]

there is nothing with sweet old love. :Tongue:

Re: Lose the B-word

Well Asdf, you've got a good reason for thinking like that, with a newborn in your life. With that comes great responsability, and things that previously seemed logical may turn to be a bit less logical when other considerations come into play.

And Jenks, there's nothing with spewing out the stuff that has been waiting to come out you know. Everyone needs to say what he or she thinks once in a while. But I think the story of you and Asdf is that of many more Americans. I think your #2 was closest to the truth: people need someone strong to go for, and right now you have the choice between a crazy cowboy and a total wimpy wuss...what choice is that?

Maybe going against your belief would be good, but only if you believe it's one step back to make two steps ahead in the future. Otherwise, don't abandon what you believe in.

being in the gray is safe, as long as you can watch the black and whites.

what does that mean? as long as you are not directly affected (effect) by the means or sources of the outcomes.

sometimes you just gotta go with your gut. even though it goes against you ideas and morals, as long as you can conclude that the event will benefit the whole.

Re: Lose the B-word

[quote=Yao";p="55821]I think your #2 was closest to the truth: people need someone strong to go for, and right now you have the choice between a crazy cowboy and a total wimpy wuss...what choice is that?

Maybe going against your belief would be good, but only if you believe it's one step back to make two steps ahead in the future. Otherwise, don't abandon what you believe in.[/quote]

Definetely how it is for me. Why would I vote for either of those bastards?? I wouldn't, nor do I think that just suckin it up and voting for one of them is the right answer. I am standing for what I believe in, which makes me just as American as anyone who votes. Even more so actually since I'm not following the sheep. By what you said Jenks, I think it makes you more of a sheep by voting for someone you wouldn't want as your president. I am making a much bigger statement by not voting for anyone at all. At least for president. Thats just me of course. Rebel without a cause.

your ass will vote, even if i have to go to colorado and beat your ass to the poll. that simple.

=P

vote for a pinko. at least that is kinda statment you are trying to make ... FUCK YOU.

Re: Lose the B-word

Hell Yeah Asdf.

Sorry Civic, but no voting means you can't comment on politics. Over here, we have the opportunity to cast a protest-vote because there's enough candidates, or cast a blank vote. But the latter ones will be spread over the top 3 leading parties, if I was informed correctly.

I cast my vote on the Party for the future. Didn't even make enough votes to get one seat in parliament, but hey, they were for a happier society and wanted to organise parties all over the country. Feasting and drinking and having fun! The second man on their list was a famous Dutch DJ and show host. So, I voted against all those A-holes ruling my country now, but I voted.

If you have the opportunity to do as I did, do it...It makes you feel really good, too! :mrgreen:

[quote=Jenks";p="55762] One fear i have is that Bush can do more harm in the next 4 years than Kerry can, since Bush has had 4 years to set up his government, and can spend the next 4 years listening to his neanderthal administration [/quote]

This is the number one reason I am a Kerry supporter. I feel like Bush has taken us to the precipice of disaster, and it terrifies me to think what Bush and his cronies might do when reelection is not an issue, looking at what they have already done in the last four years...

With Kerry, I think, the worst-case scenario is that we have an ineffectual and inconsequential president for 4 years. With Bush, the possibilities are far worse.

I really wish I had a candidate I could really stand behind, but the fact of the matter is that Bush has made the potential ramifications of voting for him so serious that it is no longer a viable option for me.

if Kerry would legailze pot, he would have me. rofl.

Re: Lose the B-word

[quote=Yao";p="55863]Sorry Civic, but no voting means you can't comment on politics. Over here, we have the opportunity to cast a protest-vote because there's enough candidates, or cast a blank vote. But the latter ones will be spread over the top 3 leading parties, if I was informed correctly.

I cast my vote on the Party for the future. Didn't even make enough votes to get one seat in parliament, but hey, they were for a happier society and wanted to organise parties all over the country. Feasting and drinking and having fun! The second man on their list was a famous Dutch DJ and show host. So, I voted against all those A-holes ruling my country now, but I voted. [/quote]

Well I'm sorry Yao, but considering the only politics we discuss in this forum seem to be that of the US, I definetely have the prerogative to comment on the political discussions taking place. Which means I have the right to vote, not vote, do as I please.

Nor is it the same thing considering neither Bush or Kerry are out to throw parties where feasting and drinking takes place. When you have to choose between a Kerry and a Bush, and you see the world as I do, then you can comment on why I can't comment on politics. Until then, I'll be commenting on politics here and there and everywhere, cause thats what I do. Hoping for a 2008 election where I have the privilege to vote for a candidate I actually have even a small amount of respect for. :Bingo:

=( i am sorry to hear that my friend. i still love you ... you lazy bastid. =P

[quote=asdf_admin";p="55902]=( i am sorry to hear that my friend. i still love you ... you lazy bastid. =P[/quote]

Would it make you happy if I voted for Kucinich? Even though it will be taking votes away from Kerry? Because then, in essence, I should probably just as well vote for Bush.

Or maybe I should just vote for Bush, and use some reasoning like "thats a cool name. Wish my last name was Bush." :lol:

Bush is good Bush is great I want some Bush on my plate

Mmmm Mmmm, yummy. Thaz some good Bush :Bingo: :Who:

Re: Lose the B-word

Yeah, the Associated Press, Reuters, Time--- real bastions of liberalism there. How completely asinine.

I prove links to reputable sources, where you claim you can counter all of them if only you wanted to, so you won't even bother. How ridiculous is that? If you've got the goods, bring them on.

Re: Lose the B-word

A pothead Republican? The hypocrisy continues.

what in holy hell are you mumbling about Lobster Clanster? lol.