[size=6]Fahrenheit 9/11 turns up the heat[/size] ANTONIA ZERBISIAS

Now that George W. Bush is disappointed to learn that the rah-rah Ronald Reagan funeral coverage won't be extended until the November election ? or the capture of Osama bin Laden, whichever comes first ? it is time to look back at his least Reaganesque moment.

It happened at 9:05 a.m. on Sept. 11, 2001, when White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card, the man who would, a year later, talk of "marketing'' the Iraq war, informed Bush that "a second plane has hit the World Trade Center."

Bush just sat there, blinking, listening to second graders stumble through a story about pet goats. As he would later tell London's Daily Telegraph: "I'm trying to absorb that knowledge ... I'm sitting in the midst of a classroom with little kids, listening to a children's story and I realize I'm the Commander in Chief and the country has just come under attack."

Bush, who had never got the memo (so to speak) titled "Bin Laden Determined To Attack Inside The U.S.," just! sat! there! realizing that he's the man.

At least Reagan would have said something kindly to the kids before jumping into action.

According to Michael Moore's much-hyped Fahrenheit 9/11, the documentary that will hit 1,000 screens in North America this month, what was really running through Bush's mind is how to blame Saddam Hussein.

Which is a stretch, and probably a joke. I think.

Still, it is a testament to how the mainstream media rallied round the leader that none of them have ever connected the dots, at least not in any comprehensive way, from that horrible moment all the way to Falluja.

If you want to see the video of that moment, you have to go to alternative Web sites, or see Moore's film. It's the first one-stop info shop for the masses who, because the mainstream media haven't the facts together in any cohesive or comprehensive manner, may have missed the stories of the Bush family connections to Saudis who subsidize terrorists and how members of the bin Laden family were flown out of the U.S. while American planes, which could have been carrying more hijackers, were diverted to Canada.

Fahrenheit 9/11, Moore tells Playboy in a lengthy interview this month, is "the temperature of hysteria that has allowed the Bush administration to get away with a series of unconscionable acts since 9/11."

Needless to say, Moore has been denounced as a traitor by those who heat up the airwaves with their own poison gas attacks on critics of the current administration. Among them, former comic Dennis Miller who jokes that he likes to "trade" the Abu Ghraib prison photos with his friends and Ann Coulter who refers to former President Bill Clinton as a rapist. (For a complete catalogue of all their refreshing views, visit mediamatters.org)

Rush Limbaugh, who is heard over Disney's WABC in New York where, last ratings check, the neophyte liberal Air America radio was beating him, says that the Mickey Mouse corporation was right to refuse to distribute Moore's film because it is so anti-American.

These people are "patriots." But Moore, who courageously questions the administration and the media, well, according to Fox News' Bill O'Reilly, deserves death.

The irony is, they complain about Moore being allowed to inflame partisan emotions during an election campaign when these right-wing gasbags never stop doing exactly that.

Which brings us to the Great Pink North where Vancouver's Lions Gate has the Fahrenheit 9/11 distribution rights for the U.S. while Alliance Atlantis has them for Canada.

Last week, on the financial editorial page of the National Post, Paul Kedrosky got his brow all furrowed over how Lions Gate, which has benefited from some $40 million in taxpayer support over the past three years, was helping to "topple" the U.S. government.

(This was before the news that Alliance Atlantis won the domestic rights.)

Picking up on suggestions that it could be "the first film to get a president fired," Kedrosky complained that this could be very bad for "cross-border economic ties."

But he's not for censorship, oh no.

Neither is Dennis Miller who says "We should fight to preserve a country where people such as Michael Moore get to miss the point as badly as he misses it. Michael Moore represents everything I detest in a human being."

Yeah. He's all for dissent too.

No wonder the Bush boosters are now saying that Reagan deserves a place on Mount Rushmore, even though a more fitting memorial would be the reformation of Dubya's stem cell research policy so that a cure for Alzheimer's may be found.

The truth is, 50 years from now, when Reagan's many failings will have faded from memory, he will be remembered in the history books for the part he played in ending the Cold War.

Bush, thanks to Fahrenheit 9/11, will be recalled as the guy who blinked, hesitated ... and lost the war he started.

[size=2] [i][CORRECTION: Bill O'Reilly of Fox News is quoted herein as saying he believes Moore "deserves death." In fact, a transcript of O'Reilly's Feb. 2 TV show makes it clear that a comment he made to that effect wasn't meant to be taken seriously or literally.][/i][/size]

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I'm not a huge fan of mr. moore's but I'm interested to see it none-the-less. should bring out some good points and some not-so-good points.

Agree on what? That Bush is a twat or that Moore is a tabloid-style-journalist.

I've followed Moore's shows for a lot of years now and although his style is entertaining, he still uses exact the same type of hyped-up propeganda as the american government used in the promotion of the Iraq war (just to mention one example) - to me this resembles the same situation as nonsence name-calling the schoolyard.

Essentially I dont believe that Moore's movie will change alot - it may change a few people's minds, but it will not move alot of votes as the people viewing this movie would just want assurance of what they already know - that Bush is a lying tosser. But since american bush-supporters doesn't have ANY regard for France - some special some award coming from Cannes would not do much in convincing the American patriots that Bush is harmful to himself, his country and the world he's living in.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that - watch farenheit 9/11 but be critical about Moore just as you should be critical about the lies of the American government.

mooreons :mrgreen:

Michael Moore is total fucking douche. His movies/books are total propaganda aimed at selling himself. He's bitter about being so fat and ugly. :!:

Propaganda everywhere you look. It's quite simple, don't listen to one man - if you want truth, research the facts for yourself. I'm looking forward to seeing Moore's documentary - I'm not going to take it as fact though. :)

while moore is many times over the top and way too 'die republicans die', he raises some pretty interesting points that should at least be considered... most of them are crap when viewed as far as he takes them, but still not to be taken lightly..

as far as bush sitting there? what did the rest of the nation do? rather -- the ones not in NY.. we all sat there stupified.

now while sitting there wasnt the best idea because it was a public place where someone could have relatively easily taken him out... what do you want him to do? hes not freaking superman.

Fuck David Moore and the horse he rode in on. This a-hole never wastes a moment to bash US of A with allegations even its staunchiest enemies burst their bellies laughing at. All that needs to be known about this character is he collects the mega$$$ from his "publications" and publicity stunts, while simultaneously shitting in the very hand that shells out the dough for his garbage. At the very least, he is a fucking hypocrite and inveterate liar, who never wastes a moment thrash the very freedoms that allow him to spew hogwash unimpeded.

Whew. That felt good! :D This Politics forum idea better stick 'round! :twisted:

[quote=dohturdima]Fuck David Moore and the horse he rode in on. This a-hole never wastes a moment to bash US of A with allegations even its staunchiest enemies burst their bellies laughing at. All that needs to be known about this character is he collects the mega$$$ from his "publications" and publicity stunts, while simultaneously shitting in the very hand that shells out the dough for his garbage. At the very least, he is a fucking hypocrite and inveterate liar, who never wastes a moment thrash the very freedoms that allow him to spew hogwash unimpeded.

Whew. That felt good! :D This Politics forum idea better stick 'round! :twisted:[/quote]

Who the fuck is David Moore? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Are you sure you're ranting about the right person? :wink:

Hey, leave David Moore alone... he's a great 'character'.

Umm, is he in a cartoon or something?

I doubt it'll have any impact. Moore haters will disregard it anyways and for the people that do enjoy his "documentaries" it'll be like preaching to the choir.

I'm gonna see it though and I'm pretty sure it'll be entertaining, but that's all it's gonna be. He might raise some valid points but those will all be nullified by his manipulative approach to the subjects at hand.

Lets hope he does the true liberal thing and donate all the funds from his movie to helping crack whores beat their kids

Nah, he'll probably just pocket it....

Isn't that "marketing the war" also???

hmmmmm...

Money = Dillusion

moore is a little out there and he can spin things in a different light but the facts are the facts.

moore just has a unique way of telling the story.

[quote=dohturdima]Fuck David Moore and the horse he rode in on. This a-hole never wastes a moment to bash US of A with allegations even its staunchiest enemies burst their bellies laughing at. All that needs to be known about this character is he collects the mega$$$ from his "publications" and publicity stunts, while simultaneously shitting in the very hand that shells out the dough for his garbage. At the very least, he is a fucking hypocrite and inveterate liar, who never wastes a moment thrash the very freedoms that allow him to spew hogwash unimpeded.

Whew. That felt good! :D This Politics forum idea better stick 'round! :twisted:[/quote]

1. David Moore? :roll:
2. He is not trying to bash the USA. He is trying to point out the problems in American society that need fixing (kinda like a muckraker).
3. He's got balls to be able to criticize American society the way he does. Show the man some respect.

[quote=Galapidate]3. He's got balls to be able to criticize American society the way he does. Show the man some respect.[/quote] Right on man. Whether you like his views or not, it's this right that makes our country so great. :Bingo:

Yeah man. I'm British and I have no fear in saying Scotland is shit. ;)

[url]www.michaelmoorehatesamerica.com[/url]

[quote=djstevendellis]www.michaelmoorehatesamerica.com[/quote]

Funny how he never mentions the reasons why he thinks Michael Moore hates America. :roll:

looking forward to this movie. hopefully it doesnt fall flat at the end like bowling did.

and of course he is going to preach his own side to the story. the point is that this, and the rest of his movies, are not suppose to be taken as the absolute truth but to make you think about the subject at hand. agree or disagree but open up your mind and find out.

[quote=phishfood]looking forward to this movie. hopefully it doesnt fall flat at the end like bowling did.

and of course he is going to preach his own side to the story. the point is that this, and the rest of his movies, are not suppose to be taken as the absolute truth but to make you think about the subject at hand. agree or disagree but open up your mind and find out.[/quote]

Agreed. It's amazing how far some people will go to stop others even [i]watching [/i]a movie or hearing a different opinion.

The thing is that Moore is going to bring up facts and issues that [b]MOST AMERICANS ARE COMPLETELY UNAWARE OF[/b] and that's why they're so upset about it.

If Moore was making a fictitious movie with no truth in it, they wouldn't need to try to discredit him to the extent they're doing now.

^ I definitely agree. A LOT of Americans want to keep the "ignorance is bliss" view of our government. Thank god someone like Moore is trying to break that mentality.

[quote=delirious][quote=djstevendellis]www.michaelmoorehatesamerica.com[/quote]

Funny how he never mentions the reasons why he thinks Michael Moore hates America. :roll:[/quote]

typical republican

[quote=Galapidate]^ I definitely agree. A LOT of Americans want to keep the "ignorance is bliss" view of our government. Thank god someone like Moore is trying to break that mentality.[/quote]

First. Ignorance is bliss. Second, nobody in America thinks our government is perfect. I mean come on. Most do recognize that its the best form of democracy in existence, or on this planet any way.

So what are you suggesting exactly?? Moore is a frickin' hypocritical greedy, glutinous bastard that claims to be in this all for the little guy and yet he charges $30,000+ to speak for 2 hours at a university. So our tax dollars are overpaying this scum bad to bring up issues about problems our country has, which most people already know about.

He doesn't do a damn thing to try and address these problems. He just states the obvious and then makes it sound worse then it really is. He never brought up that Clinton ignored al Quada for 8 years, only that Bush did it for 8 months. U don't see the hypocricy there??

If he actually addressed these problems and gave solutions, that would be one thing. As it stands, He's a frickin moron.

[quote=Civic_Zen] Moore is a frickin' hypocritical greedy, glutinous bastard that claims to be in this all for the little guy and yet he charges $30,000+ to speak for 2 hours at a university. So our tax dollars are overpaying this scum bad to bring up issues about problems our country has, which most people already know about.[/quote]

Firstly, I find with films [b]it's good to actually watch the film[/b] before giving an opinion of it. When we listen to Mozart or listen to a set by Sasha, are we listening to the music they're making, or are we trying to critisise and endlessly analyse their lifestyle? It doesn't make sense.

Personally, I think that [i]if Moore get a single new person to vote, that'll be good in itself.[/i] But again, maybe you should watch the movie before you go into attack mode!

[quote=Civic_Zen]He doesn't do a damn thing to try and address these problems.[/quote]

Well, in the US, voter apathy is a big problem. He's asking people to vote. That a "damn thing". He also gives loads of money to charities but we'll ignore that for now.

[quote=Civic_Zen]He just states the obvious and then makes it sound worse then it really is. He never brought up that Clinton ignored al Quada for 8 years, only that Bush did it for 8 months. U don't see the hypocricy there??[/quote]

Umm...how can you be "ignoring Al Queda" while firing missiles into Afganhistan and giving speeches on the danger of Osama bin Laden?

When Bush listed his adminsitration's priorities in early 2001,[b] terrorism wasn't even on the list![/b] (cites available)

[quote=Civic_Zen] If he actually addressed these problems and gave solutions, that would be one thing. As it stands, He's a frickin moron.[/quote]

He's a filmmaker, dude. Why does he have to address and solve all these issues? Why can't he just make films, like any other filmmaker?

I HAVE already seen this movie, but I'm not going back into that. Besides, its not like I sat there and watched every minute of it.

I think your a bit delirious there, delirious :wink: :lol:

[quote=Civic_Zen]I HAVE already seen this movie, but I'm not going back into that. Besides, its not like I sat there and watched every minute of it.

I think your a bit delirious there, delirious :wink: :lol:[/quote]

LOL... ok...critisise[u][b] the movie [/b][/u]then. I didn't see people analysing Quentin Tarrintino when Kill Bill. Why does Michael Moore have to be held to a much higher standard than other filmmakers:?:

[quote=delirious][quote=Civic_Zen]I HAVE already seen this movie, but I'm not going back into that. Besides, its not like I sat there and watched every minute of it.

I think your a bit delirious there, delirious :wink: :lol:[/quote]

LOL... ok...critisise[u][b] the movie [/b][/u]then. I didn't see people analysing Quentin Tarrintino when Kill Bill came out... Why does Michael Moore have to be held to a much higher standard than other filmmakers:?: [/u][/quote]

Because he's making accusations, and blatant ones at that, that other filmmakers aren't!

[quote=MJDub][quote=delirious][quote=Civic_Zen]I HAVE already seen this movie, but I'm not going back into that. Besides, its not like I sat there and watched every minute of it.

I think your a bit delirious there, delirious :wink: :lol:[/quote]

LOL... ok...critisise[u][b] the movie [/b][/u]then. I didn't see people analysing Quentin Tarrintino when Kill Bill came out... Why does Michael Moore have to be held to a much higher standard than other filmmakers:?: [/u][/quote]

Because he's making accusations, and blatant ones at that, that other filmmakers aren't![/quote]

In Passion of Christ, Mel Gibson made an accusation that the Jews killed Jesus. The Anti-Defamation League objected to it but attacked the movies accuracy., not Mel Gibson himself. Why, in the case of Farenheight 9/11, are people attacking Michael Moore instead of the film? What untrue accusations does it make?

[quote=delirious][quote=Civic_Zen]I HAVE already seen this movie, but I'm not going back into that. Besides, its not like I sat there and watched every minute of it.

I think your a bit delirious there, delirious :wink: :lol:[/quote]

LOL... ok...critisise[u][b] the movie [/b][/u]then. I didn't see people analysing Quentin Tarrintino when Kill Bill. Why does Michael Moore have to be held to a much higher standard than other filmmakers:?:[/quote]

Are you being serious?

I think you've got to understand that Kill Bill is a fictitious Film. Moore's [b]'documentary'[/b], on the other hand, is apparently based upon fact. Also, apparently, Moore's documentary dishes out some rather large accusations. I haven't seen it as yet, and I'm going to be VERY sceptical about the whole thing.

I wish people would just shut the fuck up about Moore and the whole half-truths thing. Media tells us a bunch of lies and half-truths all the time, at least his movie has some purpose to it (WAKE UP AMERICA!)

[quote=Galapidate]I wish people would just shut the fuck up about Moore and the whole half-truths thing. Media tells us a bunch of lies and half-truths all the time, at least his movie has some purpose to it (WAKE UP AMERICA!)[/quote]

I hate posts like this.

Why should people shut up about it or any topic for that matter, just because YOU don't like it? If you don't have anything constructive to add to the discussion, why not fuck off out of the thread.

[quote=Galapidate]I wish people would just shut the fuck up about Moore and the whole half-truths thing. Media tells us a bunch of lies and half-truths all the time, at least his movie has some purpose to it (WAKE UP AMERICA!)[/quote]

I agree with turban, STFU! :x

I?d like to see Moore in a debate. Totally out of his element and not able to splice and dice a movie together based on his political agenda.

[quote=turban][quote=Galapidate]I wish people would just shut the fuck up about Moore and the whole half-truths thing. Media tells us a bunch of lies and half-truths all the time, at least his movie has some purpose to it (WAKE UP AMERICA!)[/quote]

I hate posts like this.

Why should people shut up about it or any topic for that matter, just because YOU don't like it? If you don't have anything constructive to add to the discussion, why not fuck off out of the thread.[/quote]

I am not the only one who doesn't like it. There are many people like me who feel Moore is being unfairly criticized for what he does. The hypocrisy of it all is that these people who call him a liar watch news from conservative-slanted sources like Fox News, which is notorious for sensationalizing stories and misleading its viewers. My view is that these people who pass judgements on Moore are not informed enough in the first place to make those judgements, and that's what ticks me off.

Bottom line: He won the Palm D'Or at Cannes (with Quentin Tarantino as the head of the judges) and the Oscar for Best Documentary. While Moore may be pushing his own personal agenda he is doing a fucking excellent job doing it. Outside the US he people love him, he is a Best Seller and his documentaries are on shelfs of every video shop across the world. And yeah he may even alter the results of an election.... so lets see.

[quote=Galapidate]3. He's got balls to be able to criticize American society the way he does. Show the man some respect.[/quote]

Who the fuck needs balls to criticize this country??! :lol: Everyone has complaints and everyone gets up on their soap box to rant from time to time. The problem is Michael Moore focuses on very unimportant problems that have enormous emotional impact. He uses these heavily polarized political issues to sway people into his constituency. Later he hopes to use their poor manipulated minds to accomplish his utterly idiotic agenda. He is displeased about the way America works and his grand solution is more legislation.......

Guess what moore, been there, done that......all the bitching we have today is because of poorly written legislation and it keeps getting worse. Come up with a new idea that doesn't involve you using the police to incarcerate me if i don't abide by your legislative opinions.

[quote=Galapidate][quote=turban][quote=Galapidate]I wish people would just shut the fuck up about Moore and the whole half-truths thing. Media tells us a bunch of lies and half-truths all the time, at least his movie has some purpose to it (WAKE UP AMERICA!)[/quote]

I hate posts like this.

Why should people shut up about it or any topic for that matter, just because YOU don't like it? If you don't have anything constructive to add to the discussion, why not fuck off out of the thread.[/quote]

I am not the only one who doesn't like it. There are many people like me who feel Moore is being unfairly criticized for what he does. The hypocrisy of it all is that these people who call him a liar watch news from conservative-slanted sources like Fox News, which is notorious for sensationalizing stories and misleading its viewers. My view is that these people who pass judgements on Moore are not informed enough in the first place to make those judgements, and that's what ticks me off.[/quote]

You're making him out to be some kind of saint.

All I am trying to say is that people who watch the documentary should watch it with a hint of scepticism. But, hey, if the people believe what they see and it aids towards Bush loosing the next election, then I'm a happy man.

[quote=Galapidate] I am not the only one who doesn't like it. There are many people like me who feel Moore is being unfairly criticized for what he does. The hypocrisy of it all is that these people who call him a liar watch news from conservative-slanted sources like Fox News, which is notorious for sensationalizing stories and misleading its viewers. My view is that these people who pass judgements on Moore are not informed enough in the first place to make those judgements, and that's what ticks me off.[/quote]

Come to your senses man!!! Get a grip!!! Michael Moore walks around saying the media sucks, school shootings are bad, and war is bad too. Everything he says is some blatatantly obvious its ridiculous. The problem is his solutions. Therein, lies his blatant manipulation. He is trying to convince America that new laws and the elimination of Bush will solve all of our problems. Just like he has already convinced the rest of the world that American reform will make their lives better.

The things he claims are so utterly ridiculous it is mind boggling. He has somehow managed to convince the world that controlling other people will be the key to their happiness and success. It is utter lunacy and completely against everything we believe in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :shock:

[quote=mylexicon]He is trying to convince America that new laws and the elimination of Bush will solve all of our problems. Just like he has already convinced the rest of the world that American reform will make their lives better.[/quote] [b] Where does he say that new laws and the elimination of Bush will solve all our problems?[/b]

Who's making the untrue accusations now?

[quote=mylexicon][quote=Galapidate] I am not the only one who doesn't like it. There are many people like me who feel Moore is being unfairly criticized for what he does. The hypocrisy of it all is that these people who call him a liar watch news from conservative-slanted sources like Fox News, which is notorious for sensationalizing stories and misleading its viewers. My view is that these people who pass judgements on Moore are not informed enough in the first place to make those judgements, and that's what ticks me off.[/quote]

Come to your senses man!!! Get a grip!!! Michael Moore walks around saying the media sucks, school shootings are bad, and war is bad too. Everything he says is some blatatantly obvious its ridiculous. The problem is his solutions. Therein, lies his blatant manipulation. He is trying to convince America that new laws and the elimination of Bush will solve all of our problems. Just like he has already convinced the rest of the world that American reform will make their lives better.

The things he claims are so utterly ridiculous it is mind boggling. He has somehow managed to convince the world that controlling other people will be the key to their happiness and success. It is utter lunacy and completely against everything we believe in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :shock:[/quote]

I agree some of his tactics may be ridiculous, but that's because regular debating or discussion will not get anything solved in this country anymore. The government should be something to serve us, but it doesn't anymore (hmm, sounds like transcendentalism).

As for the elimination of Bush, I don't think all of Fahrenheit 9/11 focuses on him. There are some parts, but a lot of it has to do with recent events in our time like the Patriot Act and the war. At least that's the impression I get from someone I know who went to see it. But you can't blame Moore for trying to help the people. Those new laws would protect Americans, and getting rid of Bush, although it may be too late now, would prevent us, the average Americans, from paying for this war.

Where does Moore show that controlling people will lead to success? In Bowling for Columbine gun restriction is actually rational, but where else aside from that?