[ms] · Est. May 2002
One durable person. One social graph. Many communities—and every way people speak, share, listen, write, gather and remember.
Well, we have to back to it someday, so why don't we start just now. The gov in Iraq is in their position. Although it is not democratically elected, things are slowly and finally turning to the better. I read an interview with an Iraq guy, living in Slovenia, and as soon as I find some time, I will translate it.
Oh, and feel free to express all your athoughts about the situation in Iraq... :wink:
15 more days till the $hit really starts to hit the fan...
(or gets delayed, take your pick)
A fan of Saddam and a Shi'ite Muslim bump into each other on the street. They get into a heated argument because each discovers the other's affiliation. The argument gets so heated, in fact, that the Shi'ite hit the fan.
[quote=MJDub]A fan of Saddam and a Shi'ite Muslim bump into each other on the street. They get into a heated argument because each discovers the other's affiliation. The argument gets so heated, in fact, that the Shi'ite hit the fan.[/quote]
:lol: at least we at MS still have a sense of humor!
[quote=MJDub]A fan of Saddam and a Shi'ite Muslim bump into each other on the street. They get into a heated argument because each discovers the other's affiliation. The argument gets so heated, in fact, that the Shi'ite hit the fan.[/quote]
Harrr Harrr!!! :lol: Hope it was easy on the bystanders :!:
Say what you like about The Guardian but these two guys really add some perspective on Bush, Iraq and the Middle East...
[url]www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1238065,00.html[/url]
[url]www.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,5673,1195727,00.html[/url]
maybe my opinion would sound weird for you, but i think Saddam at least had a power there, now it's coplete chaos. NO DEMOCRACY can build now there, they are too young for it, there should be a strong leader that has a power
Changes should come from inside the country ( revolution or anything like that ) ... What USA did brought only chaos to that region, and it will take many many years for the situation to come back to normal. Let the images speack:
[img]http://www.roadwomen.com/Register_Archive/2000/2000-06/BullShit-lg.gif[/img]
[img]http://www.txtriangle.com/archive/842/images/CenterSpread/bullshit.jpg[/img]
But revolutions on the other hand can have lots of bad effects either. It would probably end with a civil war or something like that, because of the ethnic diversity of the Iraq population. I really don't know what the best solution would be to make Saddam loose his power. But now, the things are where they are and imo it's the "duty and obligation" of the coallition to put things in order.
[quote=FM]15 more days till the $hit really starts to hit the fan...
(or gets delayed, take your pick)[/quote]
It already has a long time ago now it is just going to get worse. Welcome to the biggest fuck up since vietnam.
[quote=razvan]Changes should come from inside the country ( revolution or anything like that ) ... What USA did brought only chaos to that region, and it will take many many years for the situation to come back to normal.[/quote]
The people over there wanted Saddam out, they just couldn't stand against him. My brother-in-law has spent about 6 of the last 12 months "aiding" in the effort. Countless times has he come back with stories of the Iraqi citizens thanking him and the US for being there. I think people need to pull their head out of their ass and stop watching the news.
if i was in charge, the middle east would be a radioactive crater as of 12.9.01 no more situation there :)
[quote=Leha]maybe my opinion would sound weird for you, but i think Saddam at least had a power there, now it's coplete chaos. NO DEMOCRACY can build now there, they are too young for it, there should be a strong leader that has a power[/quote]
Hitler had power too.
[quote=tiddles]if i was in charge, the middle east would be a radioactive crater as of 12.9.01 no more situation there :)[/quote]
:RockOn:
I'm not sure whether this was posted on the old MS, but since it's a new start I guess I can do it.
[img]http://www.gwjokes.com/pictures/gulf-wars-episode-2.jpg[/img]
quality work
I wanna see what happens June 30 when they turn over power...
[img]http://www.rpgfrance.net/~frenchvault/images/city-explosion-lg.jpg[/img]
[quote=FM]15 more days till the $hit really starts to hit the fan...
(or gets delayed, take your pick)[/quote]
Yeah no kidding. They blew up their first president... and you still think they want a democracy? :shock:
situation in Iraq
Who cares what happens in Iraq?
There aren't any weapons of mass destruction there. That's why we went there in the first place and we found out that there wasn't any, so mission accomplished.
Re: situation in Iraq
[quote=superdave]Who cares what happens in Iraq?
There aren't any weapons of mass destruction there. That's why we went there in the first place and we found out that there wasn't any, so mission accomplished.[/quote]
If it were only that simple :lol:
[quote=neoee][quote=FM]15 more days till the $hit really starts to hit the fan...
(or gets delayed, take your pick)[/quote]
Yeah no kidding. They blew up their first president... and you still think they want a democracy? :shock:[/quote]
Please! Abraham Lincoln and JFK were both assassinated.......yet most of us still want democracy. That's the problem....regular Iraqi citizens don't know how to get involved....they are used to maintaining a low profile to avoid Baathists and Saddam. They still fear him and his people even after they are dead or captured. Iraqis show up all the time to protest our troops because they know they won't leave in a body bag. They never start picketing around terrorists because they'd end up dead!!!! And the media just dumbs this revalation down into one simple doctrine: "the iraqis hate us and we have the one-sided, unsupported anecdotal evidence to prove it!.....and we like Michael Moore"
:roll: Why people only listen to the ramblings of politicians and idiotic media moguls is beyond me. If you want true unbaised opinions on the subject read what corporate officers have to say. They are split 50/50 and most of them have intelligent relatively non-political things to say.
[quote=mylexicon] Please! Abraham Lincoln and JFK were both assassinated.......yet most of us still want democracy. That's the problem....regular Iraqi citizens don't know how to get involved....they are used to maintaining a low profile to avoid Baathists and Saddam. They still fear him and his people even after they are dead or captured. Iraqis show up all the time to protest our troops because they know they won't leave in a body bag. They never start picketing around terrorists because they'd end up dead!!!! [/quote]
Although I agree, that Iraqis don't really know how to get involved in democracy (nor they are really encouraged or allowed to invlove), but I think most of them have already put fear of Saddam behind them. I mean there is no chance, that Sadam or the Baathist could get back to (absolute) power.
[quote=tiddles]if i was in charge, the middle east would be a radioactive crater as of 12.9.01 no more situation there :)[/quote]
right on man.. :RightOn: :Boom:
[quote=brakada]but I think most of [the Iraqis] have already put fear of Saddam behind them. I mean there is no chance, that Sadam or the Baathist could get back to (absolute) power.[/quote]
Half right. There is no chance Saddam will ever return to power. He is too old and their are too many people who want to rule Iraq.
However, the Baathists are far from eliminated. There are none in Iraq [i]now[/i] but it is believed that many vanished by escaping to the surrounding regions before the war.
Hold your horses tiddles... The whole middle east is not your enemy. But now I can understand how high some of the Americans get with the power of nukes. Well done m8. I really hope u will be US President one day. :KillYou:
[quote=mylexicon] Half right. There is no chance Saddam will ever return to power. He is too old and their are too many people who want to rule Iraq.
However, the Baathists are far from eliminated. There are none in Iraq [i]now[/i] but it is believed that many vanished by escaping to the surrounding regions before the war.[/quote]
Well, there are a lot of Baathists still in Iraq. Although we have heard in the past that the entire Baath party supports Iraq, this was not the case. I read in an interview with a guy from Iraq (I think he was a Kurd, thus his opinion is probably not that biased), thar most of the Baathists still in Iraq were not Sadam supporters and are trying to make the Baath party legal again and do not watn to be associated Sadam. He also mentioned that if that would happen, the problem would arise, how to tell apart Sadam's followers from those who defied him. So, I think that Sadam's followers are without any chance of getting back to power. The thing I am worried about though is placing of Sadam's people in charge of newly founded Iraq security forces, which is a lot more worrying IMHO.
Re: Situation in.................................. Iraq
Surprising that besides the wasted post at the end, no one here has any thoughts about Iraq.
With recent information claiming the situation is only getting worse, and saying the possibility of civil war being likely-- I would think more people would be discussing it. It's really a shame that such a huge war has practically faded from view-- over 1,000 of our boys are dead, and little to no progress has been made lately. Think it's time to do something differently there.
[quote=Galapidate";p="3041]I wanna see what happens June 30 when they turn over power...[/quote]
13 people died.
Your all right we should just pull the hell out and quit losing soldiers. Just let them all fight, its what they want... civil war. Shiite vs. Kurd vs. Sunni, already been done. They're just waiting for the big fight, out on the streets. If it were all that easy. Somebody has to govern them through their first independant ellection. Iraq must be rebuilt, people must be defended, and oil protected. And spread the wealth around. Unfornately it comes at the cost of lives... american and iraqi. And fuck how can you continue to play out the bs Vietnam reference, were not even close to those numbers. Why not compare to another failure such as the Korean War. It just doesnt happen.
Militants behead three Iraqi kurds:
[url]http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040919/D856VE883.html[/url]
no more unfair war
Re: Situation in.................................. Iraq
Kinda funny how the picture the White House paints of Iraq is all sunshine and roses, with Donald Rumsfeld rating the overall effort a B+.
"He [Rumsfeld] gave the administration and the coalition a "B-plus" for managing Iraq after the fall of Saddam Hussein in terms of interaction between the new government and U.S. forces. "If I had to grade it so far, I'd probably give it a B-plus, pretty good, and maybe an A in interaction and maybe a B in outcome," Mr. Rumsfeld said. "But it's a tough business." from [url]http://washingtontimes.com/national/20040908-123001-6570r.htm[/url]
Certainly it isn't quite a Vietnam situation yet, after all it's only been a year and a half so far-- but at this point there's little reason to believe things would not escalate to a Vietnam or worse level.
[quote=Balanc3";p="50535]
Your all right we should just pull the hell out and quit losing soldiers. [/quote]
Wish it were that simple. Bush has created this mess, though, and like it or not, we've got to see it through. Allowing the country to plunge into civil war would leave the region unsuitably unstable, and neither Bush nor Kerry would let that happen. Plus, if we pull out and civil war breaks out and the end result is that someone like Saddam is back in power, I think we have to chalk this war up as a loss, which is not an acceptable option.
predictions, assumptions and calculations are all just flaccid data. the truth will come in 10-20 years, and history will tell it.
Re: Situation in.................................. Iraq
Interesting choice. Right, data is merely data-- no facts there at all.
In 10-20 years, we will see that George W Bush was probably the worst president in the history of the United States, and people will really wonder how we even let this guy stay in office for 4 years.
Re: Situation in.................................. Iraq
once again, that is an opinion. and you know what they say about opinions ... "opinions are like assholes, everybody has one" :Rolling:
Re: Situation in.................................. Iraq
Quick exit from Iraq is likely
Robert Novak reporting bush may pullout after the election. This would go against everything we hae said.
[url]http://www.suntimes.com/output/novak/cst-edt-novak20.html[/url]
Re: Situation in.................................. Iraq
Robert Novak. The "Douchebag of Liberty" as he is known on the Daily Show.
Don't believe it for a second. No matter what the rhetoric is about "bringing freedom to the Iraqi people", the Iraq situation has been all about creating another Saudi Arabia. If Bush has his way, no way we leave there until this has happened. Could be decades.
Iraq and Afghanistan are messes right now. America may have screwed up by going into these countries but we will be hated forever if we abandon the Afghans and Iraqis once again.
I still stand by what I've said about Iraq before: if the democracy doesn't come from within, it's not gonna last. Even in Latin-America and Africa it has always been the same sequence: military rule (authoritarianism) before transition to democracy (in combination with Neo-Liberalism). Latin America is already ahead of most African countries in that respect. It wouldn't surprise me if large part of the middle east is just running behind, but actually following the same path, with the neccesary differences of course.
Re: Situation in.................................. Iraq
The worst is yet to come with the Iraqi elections, and so far the US administration is committed to having the planned elections in Jan.
[url]http://www.sunherald.com/mld/sunherald/news/weather/9646295.htm[/url]
The insurgency like any other before needs to be suppressed and stability has to be the number one priority above infrastructure for the next few months if there is any hope that the situation can be turned around. Bush or Kerry understand at least this much, but don't think either one of them has a better chance at doing a better job, it's roughly equal.
Trained Iraqi forces have been il-equiped and unprepared for the violent insurgents, the US and Coalition have to take the brunt of this work.
[url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3684690.stm[/url]
As it stands the US and the world should come together and get Iraq on it's feet. It is absolutely amazing how little the UN and the other non-participating countries realize what is at stake here. When the UN has a true chance to make a difference, they stand by and do nothing. It has to come to resolution before anyone will move their ass.
[url]http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/unassembly_09-23-03.html[/url]
and these elections have to happen...any delays or worse, cancellations, means that it's only going to take a hell of a lot longer to try and do what needs to be done.