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[ms] · Est. May 2002

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Europe: 50 years together... and now what?

23 durable postsStarted 2007-03-19Latest 2007-03-23
#39359Post 1 of 23

[CENTER][IMG]http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/4748/togetherig3.jpg[/IMG]

[/CENTER]

On March 25th, it will be 50 years since the sigining of the Treaty of Rome which created the European Economic Community (EEC), the real kick off of the unification of Europe after six countries had decided in 1951 to form the European Coal and Steel Community.

In 50 years time the EU has come a long way. Even though every single member state has its own language, culture and traditions, we've succeeded to unite the European continent around values like democracy, freedom and respect for human rights. And the Europeans have benefited from this a lot. A few of the merrits taken from the [URL="http://europa.eu/index_en.htm"]EU portal site[/URL]:

[quote][B][SIZE=2]P[/SIZE][/B][SIZE=2][B]eace and stability[/B]

[/SIZE] Fifty years without war between any of the countries which now make up the EU is unprecedented in history. Integration, and expansion from six to 27 countries, has played a major part in that. The EU has at the same time become a force for peace in the world.

[B]Freedom and democracy[/B]

                                              Democracy is one of our core shared values. Among these values, the EU has entrenched freedom by adding new freedoms ? freedom for people and goods to move across its borders. We can study, work or live in another EU country with a minimum of red tape, and enjoy health and social benefits everywhere. Travel across the EU is increasingly passport-free. The EU has also laid the foundations of an area where borders are not an obstacle to justice or security.[SIZE=2]

[/SIZE] [B][SIZE=2]Prosperity[/SIZE][/B]

Citizens of the EU enjoy some of the world?s highest living standards, while enjoying some of its highest social standards. This is the European way: to balance increasing prosperity with the European social model. Combined economic strength has also brought global responsibilities, which the EU reflects in its trade and aid policies.

[B]Jobs and growth[/B]

Working together has brought a single market ? the world?s largest free trade area, a single currency shared by the majority of the EU?s citizens, and common standards of environmental protection and product safety. This has created jobs and growth and expanded our choice of competitively priced goods and services.[/quote]The text ends with the following [quote]These are unique achievements worth celebrating, but this is not just about the past. It is a unique opportunity to better understand the present and to look towards the future, to discuss what Europe we want.[/quote] So yes, what kind of Europe do we really want?

After an era of "Euroforia" with personalities like Helmut Kohl, Fran?ois Mitterand and Jacques Delors, we seem to have landed in a period of "Eurosclerosis". The European Constitution was rejected by referendum in France and Holland and the last enlargement made the average European feel like he's lost touch with the Union and the things it stands for.

Even though I've always felt more a European citizen than a Belgian, I can't really blame people for being generally sceptical about the Union right now. The last enlargment has been carried out way too fast and way too soon. Not only weren't the Institutions unprepared for it, the biggest problem imo was that the new member states, Bulgaria and Romania, weren't really logical choices in the eyes of many. We've accepted two extremely poor and "cripple" (when it comes to insitutional organisation) countries to the union and nobody seems to know what the "reason" was. In the mean time countries like Macedonia are put on hold even though they're more developed than BG and RO and not situated at the outskirts of the Union. But the most important is that the benefit of membership goes way beyond the financial side of the story. Membership and thus compliance to our directives and treaties would solve a lot of ethnic tensions in the Balkan.

But enough about what was and what could've been. What do we want the EU to be in the future? How far should the cooperation and integration go? Will the Union ever be more than a (socio) economic entity?

Imo everyone would benefit from a strong EU on the political and the military level. If we'd succeed in joining forces and setting out a common policy, the EU would become a stable superpower next to the US. Not to compete with them, but to tackle threats and challenges together.

Will that ever be possible? If you'd ask me: yes! The EU will never be a monolithic block like the States because there's too much diversity amongst its members, but the possibility to grow gradually beyond the level we're at now sure is present. I'm sure that with people like Angela Merkel in Germany, Verhofstadt in Belgium and anybody but Sarkozy in France a new step forward can be made.

After all, we owe it to ourselves: by transferring some power from the national to the European level all member states will gain influence as a collective. If we don't, we will condemn ourselves to being nothing more than a dumping site for Chinese products, Russian gas and Iranian negotiators who keep up appearances in order to buy extra time...

More info on 50 years EU (events, history, ...) [URL="http://europa.eu/50/index_en.htm"]here[/URL]

#829053Post 2 of 23

Re: Europe: 50 years together... and now what?

and in the next 50 years, Europe's democracy a la mode will fade under islamicism

#829171Post 3 of 23

Re: Europe: 50 years together... and now what?

^^^yes and than E.T. is going to cure the world of all illness!

#829172Post 4 of 23

Re: Europe: 50 years together... and now what?

[quote=KinKyJ;463183][CENTER] [/CENTER]

Membership and thus compliance to our directives and treaties would solve a lot of ethnic tensions in the Balkan. (THANK YOU)

Imo everyone would benefit from a strong EU on the political and the military level. If we'd succeed in joining forces and setting out a common policy, the EU would become a stable superpower next to the US. Not to compete with them, but to tackle threats and challenges together.

[/quote]

^^^ I compleatly agree that te EU could be the potentialy most realistic solution to the nationalist and ethnic tensions in the Balkans. However...IMO you are too naive in your approach to the whole problem i.e. I don't believe that world leaders are fighting for piece otherwise there would be no war! Its as simple as that, there is always someone who benefits when others loose. As for the EU becoming as strong as the US...never happan while the US is as strong as it is, they were already pissed of at the feeling of "anti-americanism" in the "United Europe"...so they would never allow it, and why would they run the riskof competition when they don't have to?

#829451Post 5 of 23

Re: Europe: 50 years together... and now what?

[quote=88Mariner;463229]and in the next 50 years, Europe's democracy a la mode will fade under islamicism[/quote]

US will go chinese before Europe goes muslim you twat

#829498Post 6 of 23

Re: Europe: 50 years together... and now what?

^explain your rationale for that.

#829525Post 7 of 23

Re: Europe: 50 years together... and now what?

[quote=RiseandShine;463669]US will go chinese before Europe goes muslim you twat[/quote]

Good to see some1 who know's ..... 88M ....need to know on a need to know bases ;)

#829560Post 8 of 23

Re: Europe: 50 years together... and now what?

[quote=88Mariner;463229]and in the next 50 years, Europe's democracy a la mode will fade under islamicism[/quote]That sir, is about the most retarded post in this forum ever. Really.

[quote=Shpira;463362]^^^ I compleatly agree that te EU could be the potentialy most realistic solution to the nationalist and ethnic tensions in the Balkans. However...IMO you are too naive in your approach to the whole problem i.e. I don't believe that world leaders are fighting for piece otherwise there would be no war! Its as simple as that, there is always someone who benefits when others loose.[/quote]Every member state has to respect the minorities treaty, so that would root out discrimination resulting from ethnic tensions. I think that's what everybody in the Balkan (or at least the majority) wants. When I talk to Albanians in the region (mind you: the ones with a university degree), you only hear one thing: "We're fed up with this he said she said bullshit, let's just cut it out and start building a future together".

[quote]As for the EU becoming as strong as the US...never happan while the US is as strong as it is, they were already pissed of at the feeling of "anti-americanism" in the "United Europe"...so they would never allow it, and why would they run the riskof competition when they don't have to?[/quote]Hence the anti EU policy GW has been persueing yes.

#829671Post 9 of 23

Re: Europe: 50 years together... and now what?

Did France and Germany ever lift the laws prohibiting people from countries like Romania and Poland from moving there to seek work? These were in play back in 2003-2004, I remember. They were courting these countries to join the EU, but were only going to give second-class memberships because France & Germany had such bad unemployment problems they didn't want a flood of more workers from the eastern nations. Now that Poland and Romania have joined, what is their status?

#829672Post 10 of 23

Re: Europe: 50 years together... and now what?

If they are, it doesn't matter: you have free movement of people, services, products and capital within the EU and EU directives have priority over national laws.

#829675Post 11 of 23

Re: Europe: 50 years together... and now what?

[quote=KinKyJ;463899]If they are, it doesn't matter: you have free movement of people, services, products and capital within the EU and EU directives have priority over national laws.[/quote]

In theory, you are correct. But France and Germany have been known to bend the rules of the EU to suit themselves.

Example.... the rules for budgeting which neither France nor Germany have ever obeyed.

#829676Post 12 of 23

Re: Europe: 50 years together... and now what?

You've got a point there, a number of countries have problems with reaching the 3% rule, but that's something else than really bending the rules. Either way, France and Germany are still the two most important funders of the EU.

#829680Post 13 of 23

Re: Europe: 50 years together... and now what?

[quote=KinKyJ;463903]You've got a point there, a number of countries have problems with reaching the 3% rule, but that's something else than really bending the rules. Either way, France and Germany are still the two most important funders of the EU.[/quote]

France and Germany both choose the rules they obey, Britian on the orther hand applies every german-franco rule down to the last detail.

Britian has opened her borders to all comers, unlike some. As a result we are now full of benifit claiming gypies and extended familes scronging off the state.

The EU may succed as a trading block, but whilst the french line their pockets and the german blow the budget rules why should the rest of us support an EU that is wastful and corupt? Why the fuck is the UK playing over 4billion a year to ship goods up and down canals to claim subsidies?

Lets not even discuss the CAP where you gain more cash for not farming than plouging fields.

As for a common defence policy, would you really want some hick general from Estonia directing your defence policy? Or some cheese eating surrender monkey with his finger on a nuclear button?

Norway and the Swiss for the EU President!!

#829685Post 14 of 23

Re: Europe: 50 years together... and now what?

[quote=KinKyJ;463903]You've got a point there, a number of countries have problems with reaching the 3% rule, but that's something else than really bending the rules. Either way, France and Germany are still the two most important funders of the EU.[/quote]

The UK??

You best get back into bed with your french and german friends then.

#829687Post 15 of 23

Re: Europe: 50 years together... and now what?

So all of a sudden the UK is the thriving force behind the EU? That's a good one :D (Maggie Thatcher's "I want my money back" still rings in my ears).

And as for that nuke button: the French already have nukes, they don't need the EU for that. As for the hick general: Poland is seen by some as a hick country too, but they do have one of the largest armies in the union...

#829692Post 16 of 23

Re: Europe: 50 years together... and now what?

[quote=KinKyJ;463916]So all of a sudden the UK is the thriving force behind the EU? That's a good one :D (Maggie Thatcher's "I want my money back" still rings in my ears).

And as for that nuke button: the French already have nukes, they don't need the EU for that. As for the hick general: Poland is seen by some as a hick country too, but they do have one of the largest armies in the union...[/quote]

The poles cannot even build a road or a leisure center due to labour shortages, i doubt they will be any help in a ruck, big army or not. Plenty of room for polish troops in Iraq.

and another thing;

[U][B][SIZE=4]WE STILL WANT OUR MONEY BACK[/SIZE][/B][/U]!

#829693Post 17 of 23

Re: Europe: 50 years together... and now what?

Most retarded post? You said that last time, even after I supported my conclusion with relevant information. I'm still waiting for RiseandShine to provide me some info on how the "US will go Chinese".

and Dzone, did you get the line from a movie? that's totally clever....

#829776Post 18 of 23

Re: Europe: 50 years together... and now what?

message to 88Mariner and all of you other morons that don't know their ass from their face:

I'm not interested in answering your pieces of shit posts and I'm not going to make any efforts in answering your mentally retared questions. Sometimes, I will get down to your level and post things like the one I did above

Thanks & bon voyage

#829837Post 19 of 23

Re: Europe: 50 years together... and now what?

well since it's your birfday...

#829841Post 20 of 23

Re: Europe: 50 years together... and now what?

88Mariner, lemme rephrase what Rise wanted to point out: the chance of Europe fading under islam is less likely than having two Thursdays in one week.

#829851Post 21 of 23

Re: Europe: 50 years together... and now what?

For those who are insterested: Derk-Jan Eppink has just released a book on the European Commission (the team in charge of the "daily management" of the EU if you want) entitled "Europese mandarijnen" (European mandarins).

Eppink was assistant to two commissioners and has been a political journalist for years, so the way he describes (in a pretty satirical way) how the Commission works behind the scenes is pretty accurate and reveiling to say the least. (info on the book [URL="http://www.lannoo.com/Content/lannoo/booksinenglish/1/index.jsp?titelcode=12720&fondsid=5"]here[/URL], not translated in English yet as far as I know)

One of the things Eppink states in his book is that the EU is facing three threats: political leaders being too satisfied too fast, the fear of change and the fear of defining an own cultural identity. Imo that's spot on.

#830049Post 22 of 23

Re: Europe: 50 years together... and now what?

^^^ both thanks and fully agree. imo, the cultural identity is a real hard one. we'll see, I'm really interested to see how it develops itself. some of my family work for the commission, it's fun to see their perception: they tend to really believe in a much stronger Europe with some kind of culltural entity by itself but they also always say it won't happen during their lifetime...

#830517Post 23 of 23

Re: Europe: 50 years together... and now what?

^^True that. It will take longer than 50 years for some kind of cultural unity to take hold.

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