The smoking gun of the smoking gun.

[quote] Former White House aide I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby has been found guilty on four of five counts in his perjury and obstruction of justice trial. Libby was convicted of: [LIST] []obstruction of justice when he intentionally deceived a grand jury investigating the outing of CIA operative Valerie Plame; []making a false statement by intentionally lying to FBI agents about a conversation with NBC newsman Tim Russert; [*]perjury when he lied in court about his conversation with Russert;[/LIST]a second count of perjury when he lied in court about conversations with other reporters. Jurors cleared him of a second count of making a false statement relating to a conversation he had with Matt Cooper of Time magazine. Libby, 56, faces a maximum sentence of 25 years in prison and a fine of $1 million. A hearing on a presentencing report is scheduled for June 5. [/quote] [URL]http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/03/06/cia.leak/index.html[/URL]

Typical washington, it's not the crime that gets you in trouble, but the cover up.

Re: Scooter Libby Found Guilty

thank god. at least i dont have to hear about this like it is the fucking end of the world. what a waste of my time readining all about it early on. who cares? at least it is over.

Re: Scooter Libby Found Guilty

ya between that and the Anna Nicole death people don't have a fucking clue of what is going on in the world today..

Re: Scooter Libby Found Guilty

word. the anti bush people made this stupid petty trial sound like libby was covertly killing muslims in GW's secret effot to religously cleanse this planet of non christians.....................

it was a few fuckups that lead to nothing happening outside of giving BS fodder to the non GOP. please, someone get this country back to reality. lots of bad shit happening, some out fault, a lot of it isnt. either let the world descend into chaos or someone better step up and get the whole place ont he same page, and use force if needed (read:sudan and iraq)

Re: Scooter Libby Found Guilty

As you might suspect, I actually derive enormous pleasure from this. I do tend to agree with some of the sentiments of the jurors, though:

[QUOTE][URL="http://www.rawstory.com/news/2007/Juror_says_Libby_seemed_like_fall_0306.html"]At some point, the jury began to feel like they were deliberating on charges for the wrong man.

"What are we doing with this guy? Where's Rove? Where are these other bad guys," he said. "It seemed like Libby was the fall guy."

He added, "Some jurors commented 'this sucks' for Libby."[/URL][/QUOTE]

Yeah, so they got him for perjury and obstruction and not for outing a CIA agent for political purposes. I view this as the legal equivalent of a "make-up call," though -- yeah, the refs missed the call on that last play, but we're going to get you on this ticky-tack little foul instead.

Personally, though, I'd like to see Libby cut a deal that would give Fitzgerald ammo to go after the real villains...

Re: Scooter Libby Found Guilty

Everyone knew Libby had nothing to do with it. Robert Novak already disclosed his sources as being Dick Armitage and Karl Rove.

Re: Scooter Libby Found Guilty

[QUOTE=subterFUSE;457683]Everyone knew Libby had nothing to do with it. Robert Novak already disclosed his sources as being Dick Armitage and Karl Rove.[/QUOTE]

Depends on which "it" you're referring to. If "it" is outing Plame, as your message suggests, then you might be right. I fail to believe that he was completely unaware of anything that was going on in that regard, but there obviously wasn't enough there to prosecute him, so there ya go.

Of course, that's not what he was on trial for...

Re: Scooter Libby Found Guilty

Oh, and it looks like Fox has a different take on the verdict:

[IMG]http://boingboing.net/images/2001883825464813443_rs.jpg[/IMG]

I'd like to think this is a typo, but they have these sorts of errors so frequently, I start to wonder at times...

Re: Scooter Libby Found Guilty

[quote=toasty;457717]Oh, and it looks like Fox has a different take on the verdict:

[IMG]http://boingboing.net/images/2001883825464813443_rs.jpg[/IMG]

I'd like to think this is a typo, but they have these sorts of errors so frequently, I start to wonder at times...[/quote]

I think this is a doctored photo. I have been sitting by the TV watching FoxNews .. and Brit Hume's show only came on 2 seconds ago as I write this.

Re: Scooter Libby Found Guilty

[QUOTE=subterFUSE;457724]I think this is a doctored photo. I have been sitting by the TV watching FoxNews .. and Brit Hume's show only came on 2 seconds ago as I write this.[/QUOTE]

I guess it could be, although I stumbled upon it on boingboing.net, which is really not a political site.

Re: Scooter Libby Found Guilty

[quote=toasty;457736]I guess it could be, although I stumbled upon it on boingboing.net, which is really not a political site.[/quote]

I just find it suspect that the reporter they show in the picture was not on live television to discuss Libby until after the photo was posted. :lol:

Re: Scooter Libby Found Guilty

[QUOTE=subterFUSE;457742]I just find it suspect that the reporter they show in the picture was not on live television to discuss Libby until after the photo was posted. :lol:[/QUOTE]

figured out what happened here -- evidently, Fox posted a separate banner for each count, and this capture is from the one count on which he was acquitted. So Fox was correct, and the person that first began circulating this image was the one doing something shifty...

Re: Scooter Libby Found Guilty

I knew that something wasn't right. :p

Re: Scooter Libby Found Guilty

[quote=toasty;457681][URL="http://www.rawstory.com/news/2007/Juror_says_Libby_seemed_like_fall_0306.html"]At some point, the jury began to feel like they were deliberating on charges for the wrong man.

"What are we doing with this guy? Where's Rove? Where are these other bad guys," he said. "It seemed like Libby was the fall guy."

He added, "Some jurors commented 'this sucks' for Libby."[/URL] quote]

Gotta agree with that. Classic fall guy, Olly North comes to mind. What amazes me is how they can continually find these drones who so willingly give their life for them.

Re: Scooter Libby Found Guilty

[quote=subterFUSE;457683]Everyone knew Libby had nothing to do with it. Robert Novak already disclosed his sources as being Dick Armitage and Karl Rove.[/quote]

[COLOR=black][COLOR=silver]That's why they have shills like Libby around, amazing how calculating they are in their duplicity. Scooter now gets his pic on the wall at the Ollie North Fall Guy Hall of Fame. Good Americans who took a dick up the ass to save a crook.[/COLOR] :lol: [/COLOR]

Re: Scooter Libby Found Guilty

Fitzgerald is going to have a hard time finding a jury to prosecute everyone else if Libby does cut a deal. Whole media campaign that speculates on things in regards to Rove, etc... taints potential jury members if they watch any news broadcast that mentions such.

Re: Scooter Libby Found Guilty

[quote=fumanchu182;458097]taint[/quote]

:lol:

Re: Scooter Libby Found Guilty

[QUOTE=fumanchu182;458097]Fitzgerald is going to have a hard time finding a jury to prosecute everyone else if Libby does cut a deal. Whole media campaign that speculates on things in regards to Rove, etc... taints potential jury members if they watch any news broadcast that mentions such.[/QUOTE] Are you even remotely suggesting that all Americans watch and follow news? laughable at best...now unless Rove or Cheney were contestants on American Idol or Are You Smarter Than a Fifth Grader (unfortunately very few are) that may actually taint a jury.

Re: Scooter Libby Found Guilty

yikes! just read that the jury foreman is a close neighbor of Tim Russert. Doesn't mean anything, but begs some speculation...

Re: Scooter Libby Found Guilty

[quote=rubyraks;458133] taint [/quote]

:lol:

Re: Scooter Libby Found Guilty

I threw that one out there again just for you...glad you caught it. ;)

Re: Scooter Libby Found Guilty

[quote=Kobe;457957][COLOR=black][COLOR=silver]That's why they have shills like Libby around, amazing how calculating they are in their duplicity. Scooter now gets his pic on the wall at the Ollie North Fall Guy Hall of Fame. Good Americans who took a dick up the ass to save a crook.[/COLOR] :lol: [/COLOR][/quote]

Actually.... there wasn't any need for a "fall guy" because no laws were ever broken. Valerie Plame was not actually an undercover agent at the time of her supposed "outing". Fitzgerald was informed of this, and that's why he focused on Libby. There was no chance of there ever being a serious conviction of anyone for outing her.... because she wasn't in a position where being "outed" was a crime in the first place.

Re: Scooter Libby Found Guilty

No need? They why lie? Obviously they have something they want to cover up.

Re: Scooter Libby Found Guilty

Libby was convicted of lying during the course of an investigation of a crime that prosecutors could never prove was actually committed. All of us ought to find that troubling.

Re: Scooter Libby Found Guilty

[QUOTE=subterFUSE;458316]Actually.... there wasn't any need for a "fall guy" because no laws were ever broken. Valerie Plame was not actually an undercover agent at the time of her supposed "outing". [/QUOTE]

This is a common talking point from the administration apologists, but I have yet to hear anyone actually back this up with anything concrete. Point me to something other than anecdotal evidence of this and maybe we can talk, but Fitzgerald doesn't strike me as the type of go on a witch hunt, and whether or not she was covert is such a simple question to answer, it is inconceivable to think that he would go forward with an investigation without figuring that out first. The investigation was into whether she was [I]knowingly[/I] outed, not whether she was actually covert.

Re: Scooter Libby Found Guilty

[QUOTE=88Mariner;458427]Libby was convicted of lying during the course of an investigation of a crime that prosecutors could never prove was actually committed. All of us ought to find that troubling.[/QUOTE]

He was found guilty of lying during an investigation that, at the end of the day, didn't result in indictments. That's why they do investigations rather than just indicting people willy-nilly, and is very different from what you're suggesting.

It amazes me how cavalier people are about excusing this guy for lying to federal prosecutors. He's facing 25 years -- it isn't an insignificant charge.

Re: Scooter Libby Found Guilty

did the same thing not happen in the Martha Stewart case?

anyways, Libby's 'obstruction' did what? it prevented Fitzgerald from finding out whether the 'alleged' leak violated federal law? Emphasis on 'alleged'.

the concept of 'thoughtcrime' keeps popping up into my head....

Re: Scooter Libby Found Guilty

who the fuck cares the guy is guilty hopefully going to jail can we move on to more important shit this is so stupid it just keeps dragging on let him rot awhile and let GW2 focus on fixing shit please its worse than when black people harping on slavery its over let it go and work on something else

Re: Scooter Libby Found Guilty

[QUOTE=88Mariner;458477]did the same thing not happen in the Martha Stewart case? [/QUOTE]

Yep, and she went to jail, as she should have. What's the point?

[QUOTE=88Mariner;458477]anyways, Libby's 'obstruction' did what? it prevented Fitzgerald from finding out whether the 'alleged' leak violated federal law? Emphasis on 'alleged'. [/QUOTE]

Aren't you planning on going to law school? Lack of concern for the truth + law license = the potential to get yourself in a load of shit. Courts take it very seriously when you aren't forthright with them. Seriously, discussing politics is one thing, but when you start suggesting that it's OK to lie to a judge, a grand jury, or a prosecutor and you're soon to be a lawyer, you're in dangerous territory.

There's a guy I went to law school with that had his bar admission rejected for fudging some things on his resume when looking for summer legal jobs. He got his degree, but he'll never get his license or practice law -- put another way, he was effectively disbarred [B]before he even started practice[/B]. That's fucked up. It happens, though -- in all seriousness, I do hope that when you're not arguing politics, you display a healthy disapproval for liars. Tolerating that shit makes the whole profession -- of which you will soon be a member -- look bad...

Re: Scooter Libby Found Guilty

[quote=toasty;458468]He was found guilty of lying during an investigation that, at the end of the day, didn't result in indictments. That's why they do investigations rather than just indicting people willy-nilly, and is very different from what you're suggesting.

It amazes me how cavalier people are about excusing this guy for lying to federal prosecutors. He's facing 25 years -- it isn't an insignificant charge.[/quote]

No more cavalier than people were about Bill Clinton lying under similar circumstances. ;)

Hopefully Libby won't have to do any time. I mean.... they let Sandy Burger off the hook for shoving classified documents from the Archives down his pants so he could cover-up the Clinton administration's failure to get Bin Laden. :shock: I think this ranks as slightly less severe. :roll:

Re: Scooter Libby Found Guilty

[QUOTE=subterFUSE;458560]No more cavalier than people were about Bill Clinton lying under similar circumstances. ;)

Hopefully Libby won't have to do any time. I mean.... they let Sandy Burger off the hook for shoving classified documents from the Archives down his pants so he could cover-up the Clinton administration's failure to get Bin Laden. :shock: I think this ranks as slightly less severe. :roll:[/QUOTE]

Well, if we're going to start a pissing match over who's lies -- those of the Clinton administration or the Bush administration -- had the worst consequences, this discussion probably isn't going to end well for you. ;) As for me, though, I was equally bothered when Clinton was pulling shit, too. I was actually a card carrying (literally) member of the Republican Party at the time so of course I thought it was wrong, but that notwithstanding, I still think I would have had a problem with it. I take that oath pretty seriously, and perhaps I'm weird that way, but that's the way I am.

Re: Scooter Libby Found Guilty

And Fawn Hall shredded documents which proved Iran-Contra. Previous scandals might make us cynical about current ones, but what they don't do is make them ok.

Re: Scooter Libby Found Guilty... and Sentenced

[QUOTE=subterFUSE;458560] Hopefully Libby won't have to do any time. [/QUOTE]

Well, he was just sentenced to 30 months and fined $250K.

[url]http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/06/05/cia.leak.trial/index.html[/url]

Question now is whether he'll have to spend the time during his appeal in the pokey. If he can, he might be able to drag it out long enough that he'll be pardoned by Bush regardless of the outcome of the appeal, and might avoid spending any time in the clink.

Re: Scooter Libby Found Guilty

second question is whether all these pussy ass democrats will be calling for the firing and trial of thier buddy who was indicted for bribery today.....

stupid liberals... the lot of ya.

Re: Scooter Libby Found Guilty

[QUOTE=thesightless;495437]second question is whether all these pussy ass democrats will be calling for the firing and trial of thier buddy who was indicted for bribery today.....

stupid liberals... the lot of ya.[/QUOTE]

Uh, among other damning evidence, he was caught with loads of cash in his freezer. Although there's nothing illegal about that, it isn't defensible behavior. So in answer to your question, I'm going with "Yes."