[quote] [B]Czech, Polish Premiers Would Support Hosting Proposed U.S. Missile Shield[/B]

[FONT=times new roman,times,serif][B][FONT=times new roman,times,serif][B][FONT=times new roman,times,serif][B][B]Associated Press[/B][/B][/FONT] February 19, 2007 8:15 a.m.[/B][/FONT] [/B][/FONT] WARSAW, Poland -- Poland and Czech Republic are in favor of hosting a proposed U.S. missile-defense system, the Czech premier said Monday after meeting with his Polish counterpart. "We agreed that both countries will probably give a positive response to the U.S. letter, and only then will we open negotiations," Mirek Topolanek said after talks with Polish Prime Minister Jaroslaw Kaczynski. "I think it is in our joint interest to negotiate this initiative and to build ... the missile defense," he said. The U.S. said last month that it wanted to install a missile-defense system in Eastern Europe, to guard the eastern U.S. and Europe from missiles launched from "rogue nations" in the Middle East. It would be the first such site in Europe. Two other bases -- at Fort Greely, Alaska, and Vandenberg Air Force Base in California -- would confront possible threats from rogue nations elsewhere. Mr. Kaczynski said last week he supported the U.S. proposal to build missile interceptors in Poland and an accompanying radar site in the Czech Republic. The U.S. plans have drawn the ire of Russia, which says such a missile defense could disturb the balance of power in the region and fuel a new arms race. On Monday, Mr. Kaczynski brushed aside the Kremlin's fears, saying "the missile defense is not directed against any normal state." "Any statement suggesting that the missile defense would change the alignment of forces in Europe is a misunderstanding," he said.[/quote]

this is kind of creepy.

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[quote=Localizer;446965]this is kind of creepy.[/quote]

how so?

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yeah, how so?

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[QUOTE]"I think it is in our joint interest to negotiate this initiative and to build ... the missile defense,"[/QUOTE]Oooooh this is so typical. During the cold war, European countries were given cookies if the US could pile up some nukes on their territories. Now the former Warschaupact countries want a piece of the pie too. :roll:

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And what's more, I think this missile shit just proves that the Bush administration still doesn't grasp what's going on in the world. Rogue nations firing ICBMs at the US and EU... Yeah right...

The largest threat these days comes from fundi terrorists/suicide bombers/the likes (I think those 60+ people on the train from Dehli to Lahore yesterday would agree) and you're not going to stop that by playing Star Wars.

Then again, the aeronautical industry needs a good funding once a while, doesn't it? :roll:

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[quote=KinKyJ;447062]And what's more, I think this missile shit just proves that the Bush administration still doesn't grasp what's going on in the world. Rogue nations firing ICBMs at the US and EU... Yeah right...

The largest threat these days comes from fundi terrorists/suicide bombers/the likes (I think those 60+ people on the train from Dehli to Lahore yesterday would agree) and you're not going to stop that by playing Star Wars.

Then again, the aeronautical industry needs a good funding once a while, doesn't it? :roll:[/quote]

I agree with you. The real danger is smuggled warheads being detonated on US soil. Can't exactly knock those out of the sky, can you? :roll:

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[QUOTE=subterFUSE;447099]I agree with you. The real danger is smuggled warheads being detonated on US soil. Can't exactly knock those out of the sky, can you? :roll:[/QUOTE]

24, this season. Some people don't like the show because it gives the terrorists ideas.

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^^^ Or The Sum of All Fears

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[quote=superdave;447129]24, this season. Some people don't like the show because it gives the terrorists ideas.[/quote]

I have never watched a single moment of that show.

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me neither.. the new world order at its finest here.. getting poland and the czech to put US missiles there? That makes it easier for the USA to hit anybody in the region who might not agree with the plan..

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"and by rogue nations, i mean russia"

-Bush

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Let me tell you one thing...that shield will never be built...I am 95% sure of that...it will be in the news for a bit and then it will just fade out...because if the US does that what do you the Russia will do in South America?

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The US under Bush is the rogue nation.

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hardly, grow up brother, yeah, ppl dont like his military policy and attitude towards foreign relations, but we have 2 things here that prevent him from becoming kim jong il, congress, courts, and oh yeah, the third option, citizens with the right to vote out his party like we did last year.

and in regards to nukes, keep in mind a nuke, maybe two, was indeed set off last year without notice. its definetly a conspiracy theory, but they blew one up already, whats to say a pissed off group of nations in the middle east, with some aid from NK, and other nations who feel slighted on the world stage from "making a point". sad to use the movie theory, but really, what is preventing NK or iran from "losing" a warhead and allowing it to fall into the hands of groups who already tried to obtain them? i know, i know, conspiracy theory, but its not like we havnt seen bad shit happen before.....

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If the shoe fits, wear it.

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[quote=thesightless;447277] what is preventing NK or Iran from "losing" a warhead and allowing it to fall into the hands of groups who already tried to obtain them? i know, i know, conspiracy theory, but its not like we havnt seen bad shit happen before.....[/quote]

Nothing...and the same thing applies to any lone individual who has a disliking for the US or any other country that does not mean that we should kill everyone to prevent them from killing us...

There is an illusion of security (or insecurity) but in reality to do something like that would be quite easy with enough finance...the only question would be does anyone really benefit from doing something like that?!

The only way to prevent it would be to either make sure that it is known that if something like that happened retaliation would be swift and merciless or to make sure you are on good terms with anyone who could do that..

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Clearly, a missile defense shield is not going to protect the US from terrorists who smuggle stuff inside the borders. As for its intended use to oppose nations such as North Korea and Iran, I'm a bit split on that... Mutually assured destruction worked well as a nuclear deterrent thoughout the 80s...

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^^^ correctemundo. The only situation it would be useful in is when terrorists seize an icbm silo plus the launch codes. Probability: the same as having two Thursdays in one week.

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How can you be so blind...this has nothing to do with terorists...its a direct attack on Russia's capabilities...its just a threat because Putsky has been fucking around quite a bit lately...

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I know that you Serbs are buddies with the ruskis, buy fyi the cold war has ended when the Berlin Wall came down. So why (re)launch the idea of a missile shield now? The Russians never fired a nuke because of M.A.D. plus they don't even have a clue where half of their warheads have gone by now...

With rogue nations the Bush admin means countries like NK and Iran. But in reality (like I stated before) it's nothing more but giving presents to aeronautical industry and what not lobby groups

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yeah I know...but I'm telling you Bush is getting pissed of at Putin for supporting "terrorists" and anti US govt but he can't criticize him publicly because he knows that Putin will tell him to fuck off basicly...why do you think that all the shit I mentioned that he has done has not been showed on the news in the west?! Because people would protest and the govt would be incapable of doing much!

I don't really have the same opinion as most of the people with my nationality handicap and I am more than aware that Russians are not our friends they just use that idea when it suits their own means as they always have...

I know that the cold war as such ended but there is still a lot of tenssion...if you ask any Russian they will tell you they despise the US...I have lived in Russia for a while and I go there quite often as half of my family lives there...I have many friends who are Russian who keep me up to date with Putsky's new adventures...

So in short...that idea is being relaunched for the following: weapons sold to Iran (anti-aircraft --S.A.M.'s) weapons to Lebanon (Katusha's for attacking Israel) weapons sold to Venezuela (100-000 AK-107 and 25 su-37)

All of these things were kept silent in the west right??? Why...if it was some other smaller country that had done this they would have been under an embargo and passably bombed!

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The big boys come out to play.

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I doubt that it is solely aimed at Russia...although it is certainly pissing them off, and there's always the potential for escalating tensions between the two nations. This missile defense thing is not new; it has already been running in the background for quite some time now, before the latest round of drama with Putin. My best guess is that the administration really does intend this against Iran and North Korea and other smaller nations that may get the bomb. Something along the lines of: sure, MAD worked well for the Cold War, but technology has progressed, so why not harness it?

But crazy as those nations may see, I don't really see the whole concept of MAD as being obsolete, as Jan also pointed out... It's when we don't have a clear target to strike back at that we're in trouble with our nuclear deterrent.

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ICBMs from Korea would go the other way around the world as for Iran...puting defense in Israel (which is there already) would be far more effective... don't you agree? which leaves us only the Russkies to worry about? Right?

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In addition I think it possible that Russia's military presence might be invited into Venezuela by Chavez...

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[quote=Shpira;447445] weapons sold to Iran (anti-aircraft --S.A.M.'s) weapons to Lebanon (Katusha's for attacking Israel) weapons sold to Venezuela (100-000 AK-107 and 25 su-37)[/quote]None of these are weapon systems which need to be countered with a missile shield costing brazilions of dollars.

Russian troops in Venezuela would give Hugo a hard on, but that will never happen (just think of the Cuba missile crisis)

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^True that.

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Man I am really getting tired...I know none of those are weapons which require the US to build shit in Poland!!! But consider this, Putin is supposed to be a strong president (or so he is perceived by most Russians). They (the Russkies) still have a grudge against the US and the average Russian still feels that the US is an enemy. Now how does this make Putin look if the US builds that missile shield??? Just look what he did in Georgia when their president just said he wanted to join the EU he fucking practically occupied the whole country!!!

Its pretty clear that you folks don't quite get some of the implications behind all this...I don't think I get them all...but if you look at things the way you are (no reason to build the shield) than there is no reason for the US to even have ICBMs or most of its military equipment...the simple truth is that the Cold war as a direct arms race might have ended between the communists and the capitalists but the nevertheless there is still a lot tension almost like a second cold war... but not really its just a natural state of things in world politics...i.e. anarchy on the global level...survival of the fittest if you will.

This has always been this way and it will always stay...

As for the Cuban missile crisis...this is similar, however I was not talking of putting ICBMs there but a simple base...similar to the ones the US has in Turkey, Japan, England, Germany...the list goes on.

So why wouldn't they build it...because this shield will not be build...because neither of the establishments can really afford an escalation of that kind (the US has its hand already too stretched across the world and Russia is not yet financially capable for that).

Soon though US power WILL be chalanged either by the Chinese or the Russians and it will result in some kind of a change...

There is where my only FEAR of politics lies when that happens the shit is really going to hit the fan and this thread will earn its name.

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Putin wants a second cold war. The guy is ex-KGB. He wants a return to the days of Soviet control. He is stamping out freedom of speech, executing members of the press and other critics, and taking government control over media outlets. He is slowly working back towards the days of communism.

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To you'll need the radar and intercept bases well away from the homeland to have a good few tries at interception - just in case ;). I would expect the whole world to have coverage of radar and intercepts, just to gain maximum chance of sucess, you must release how difficult sucessful interception is at speed and height.

As for the airbourne threat, just ask Davetlv. I'm sure he would agree there is a minmal threat of rocket attacks! We have seen the start of more powerful and longer range weapons beign used in the middle east, how long will it take for more advanced weaponry to be passed to terrorists? How long for them to spread?

I do agree a sumggled warhead is the greatest threat, especially worring due to the Eastern European porus boarders.

As for Putin, he will never be a threat to world peace. He will be gone soon enough and another mob leader will emerge. Russia i suspect will apply pressure in more capitalist ways, oil and gas reserves they have will give them leverage. When they start buying engery distribution grids in Europe and across the world that will give them the commercial power they crave, you mess with them your population freezes this winter, your ecomany fails and you suddlenly find all your industries and commercial sectors bought out at rock bottom prices, thats right by the Russian Mafia rich on oil, gas and football.

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[quote=subterFUSE;448098]Putin wants a second cold war. The guy is ex-KGB. He wants a return to the days of Soviet control. He is stamping out freedom of speech, executing members of the press and other critics, and taking government control over media outlets. He is slowly working back towards the days of communism.[/quote]

So what he is a democratically elected popular dictator. Everything he has done is supported by the people, and no mafia won't come to power as thats one of the best part of Putin's legacy- he has cleaned politics of organized crime. and the potential candidate to replace him is very similar to him...

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[quote=subterFUSE;448098]Putin wants a second cold war. The guy is ex-KGB. He wants a return to the days of Soviet control. He is stamping out freedom of speech, executing members of the press and other critics, and taking government control over media outlets. He is slowly working back towards the days of communism.[/quote]

For the first time, I agree with you.

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[quote=Shpira;448322]So what he is a democratically elected popular dictator. Everything he has done is supported by the people, and no mafia won't come to power as thats one of the best part of Putin's legacy- he has cleaned politics of organized crime. and the potential candidate to replace him is very similar to him...[/quote]

What are you talking about?...He IS organized crime. He hates democracy and what it stands for.

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So what...you Americans...you...you think that there is no viable alternative! Anti-Democratic doesn't mean he is a criminal...look I might have a little bit more of a broader view because I'm a student of politics, but its obvious if he has popular support for all the changes he is making and he is not pulling a Beluscony i.e. doing shit for his own gain whats wrong with that??? There are plausible alternatives to Democracy as you know it!!!

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[quote=Localizer;448354]For the first time, I agree with you.[/quote]

Finally. ;)