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The Coming Democratic Party Civil War

20 durable postsStarted 2007-01-12Latest 2007-01-12
#36959Post 1 of 20

Discuss. ;)

[QUOTE][SIZE=2] THE COMING DEMOCRATIC PARTY CIVIL WAR By DICK MORRIS & EILEEN MCGANN January 11, 2006 -- Iraq is not the only place that is threatening to dissolve into the anarchy and bloodletting of a civil war. It?s about to happen to the Democratic Party. Reacting to Bush?s planned "surge" in troop strength, the Democratic leaders in Congress, savoring their victory, are contemplating taking only symbolic steps to protest Bush?s war policies, a timidity that will highly displease their leftist boosters. The liberal activists who funded and impelled the Democratic victory in 2006 did not focus on winning a Congressional majority so that it would take merely symbolic action. Symbolic action would have been appropriate for a minority party, but the backers of a party in the majority expect something more.

So the Democrats are about to form their customary firing squad ? a circular one ? and begin again the battles that ripped their party apart in the late 1960s. The battle lines are the same: The New Left vs. The Party Establishment. Speaker Pelosi and Majority Leader Reid are about to squander their credibility with their supporters on the left by failing to cut back ? or cut off entirely ? funding for the war. The Democratic Party?s left wing is not to be trifled with. It is a massive force, fully mobilized, and led by aggressive online organizations such as Moveon.org. It has plenty of political leaders ? like Ted Kennedy and John Kerry ? who are more than willing to articulate fundamental differences with the Party?s Congressional leadership and are not shy about doing so. The Congressional leaders? plan is to give Bush all the rope he needs to hang himself by increasing troop strength in Iraq. They are deeply skeptical about whether more soldiers will accomplish anything besides increasing casualties. But they are not about to take the rap in front of the American people for seeming to sell out our troops by cutting their funding and forcing the Administration to retreat. Nor are they ready for a constitutional confrontation with the Commander-in-Chief over his wartime powers. So, instead, they are going to hold hearings during which a parade of former generals will voice their misgivings and air their disagreements, past and present. It will be like one of Bob Woodward?s books enacted on a Congressional stage. But this theater is not going to appease the left. They did not elect Democrats to Congress so they could hold hearings. They expect laws not shows. Their frustration will become increasingly apparent as the Cindy Sheehans of the world react to the increased troop commitment in Baghdad. The left will launch campaigns of civil disobedience, public marches and protests, online petitions, and the like. It will be the 1960s all over again. As long as the Democratic Party could be counted upon to represent the left on Iraq, protests against the war were channeled through the political process and were aimed at electing a Democratic Congress. But now that the Democratic leadership has, in the eyes of the leaders of the left, "betrayed" them, look for protest to overflow the bounds of partisan politics and go into the streets. One can expect candidates in the Democratic primaries to run to the left seeking to capitalize on the frustration of peace activists at the passivity of the Party?s Congressional leaders in the face of Bush?s determination to add to troop strength committed to Iraq. Moderate candidates like Barak Obama, John Edwards, and even Hillary Clinton may find themselves outflanked by those more willing to run to the left like Al Gore and John Kerry. Until now, we have had a two-party system in our post 9-11 debates. Now a new entrant is in the field: The New Left. [/SIZE][/QUOTE]

#787831Post 2 of 20

Re: The Coming Democratic Party Civil War

ok, even if you are against the war, how in good conscience, can you be against funding it. do they not want us to help rebuild, do they not want to supply our guys there, do they just want to come out and say "fuck you iraq, figure it out for yourself?>"

cuz if they do, it will only get exponetially worse, because without us there, it will become, instantly mind you, a violent power grab, especially since iran is befriending the kurds in the north, who largely have stayed quiet and peaceful.

#787844Post 3 of 20

Re: The Coming Democratic Party Civil War

[QUOTE=thesightless;432891]ok, even if you are against the war, how in good conscience, can you be against funding it. do they not want us to help rebuild, do they not want to supply our guys there, do they just want to come out and say "fuck you iraq, figure it out for yourself?>"

cuz if they do, it will only get exponetially worse, because without us there, it will become, instantly mind you, a violent power grab, [/QUOTE] first, are you actually suggesting that the money we've been funding Iraq has been used for rebuilding up until now? Cause I've seen very little of that, in fact, their infrastructure was exponentially better and more stable under Saddam's rule...and that's not even getting into the ridiculously inflated prices that are being paid for anything resembling rebuilding.

Are you suggesting our funding has been used to supply our troops when every report that's come from the soldiers and higher ups has spoken of how underequipped they've been?

[QUOTE=thesightless;432891]especially since iran is befriending the kurds in the north, who largely have stayed quiet and peaceful.[/QUOTE] Seriously? I've yet to hear that one and politically the kurds have always been worlds apart from the Iranians.

#787850Post 4 of 20

Re: The Coming Democratic Party Civil War

dude, iran has been working with the kurds for awhile now. but it isnt news b/c no one is dying.

and last time i looked, there are already more schools, hospitals, and police stations in iraq than ever.

#787862Post 5 of 20

Re: The Coming Democratic Party Civil War

I just find that connection to be somewhat suspect as Israel had had a very close relationship with the Kurds for quite some time and they were even training them while they were in the UN no-fly zone under Saddam.

and where do you have information about schools, etc.? Anything I've seen has been quite the opposite.

#787868Post 6 of 20

Re: The Coming Democratic Party Civil War

the enemy of my enemy is my friend. this applies int he middle east for what? a millenia and a half now?

#787871Post 7 of 20

Re: The Coming Democratic Party Civil War

[URL]http://author.nationalreview.com/?q=MjE4OA[/URL]==

[URL]http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2005/11/02/the_good_news_from_iraq_is_not_fit_to_print/[/URL]

[URL]http://goodnewsiraq.com/index2.htm[/URL]

there is a lot more, i simply googled the two terms

"iraq good news" and "progress in iraq"

#787872Post 8 of 20

Re: The Coming Democratic Party Civil War

I hear you, but where's your source on that one? It just goes against way too many geopolitical issues and I'd like to read about it if true.

#787873Post 9 of 20

Re: The Coming Democratic Party Civil War

my source? i guess myself since all i did was hop on google and search two basic terms. im sure if we went into it by researching "hospitals, schools, teahing, womens rights, GDP of individuals, etc etc etc" we'd have a load more.

ben, you know where i stand on most, and here, it just takes a little effort and some time to find the facts.

like for instance, how over 80% of the mruders commited in iraq are limited to the sunni triangle and baghdad proper. the "whole" country isnt fucked, just where there is a strong clerical presence. the west, and north, have been peaceful, and the north has seen little fighting as of late.

#787875Post 10 of 20

Re: The Coming Democratic Party Civil War

actually I am more interested on your source for the Iran-Kurd connection ;)

#787879Post 11 of 20

Re: The Coming Democratic Party Civil War

they have been opening offices to facilitate cross border travel and commerce (read: sneaking fighters in) in an effort to gain back the trust between iranian kurds and the iraqi kurds. i think i saw it on BBC, ill go look in a minute

but dont think im saying they are suddenly having a canadian/american relationship, shit iran and turkey have ammassed troops on thier borders to deter the remnants of the kurdish resistenace leftover from the 80's

#787884Post 12 of 20

Re: The Coming Democratic Party Civil War

The New Left. I do expect whats coming to make the 60's look like a clown show.

#787885Post 13 of 20

Re: The Coming Democratic Party Civil War

I know there's a connection between the Iranian Kurds and Iraqi ones, in fact the Iranian kurds are quite enjoying the fact that the Iraqi ones are looking for a strong voice in governing Iraq, but as far as Iran the country helping them out I can't possibly see that being a reality as that is entirely against the iranian gov't's interests. It's about the equivalent of the Turks helping the Iraqi kurds...it'll never happen.

#787888Post 14 of 20

Re: The Coming Democratic Party Civil War

but think again, it does help iranian interests on the bigger scale. by aiding the peaceful sector of iraq, iran is thumbing its nose, legally, at america. they look better, they trash us while helping iraqis, and get more of a foothold in their neighbor....

shit. just call me later, i cant keep putting off work to research shit

#787893Post 15 of 20

Re: The Coming Democratic Party Civil War

foothold in iraq while empowering their own kurdish subjects...not sure if that'd really work.

#787897Post 16 of 20

Re: The Coming Democratic Party Civil War

but the persian based gov't doesnt even consider that the kurds will be empowered. shit, they would put that down in a minute. but politcally, they are only helping themselves by acting peacefully and in spite of the US. they would let the kurds think they are gonna suddenly be involved in gov't , but the council owuldnt let that shit happen.

#787899Post 17 of 20

Re: The Coming Democratic Party Civil War

I hear you, but that'd be an interesting play on the Iranians part.

#787901Post 18 of 20

Re: The Coming Democratic Party Civil War

again

harsh reality vs hopeful vision.

reality is indeed just that, hopeful visions are nothing but false dreams

#787906Post 19 of 20

Re: The Coming Democratic Party Civil War

In the end harsh reality wins out.

#787973Post 20 of 20

Re: The Coming Democratic Party Civil War

[QUOTE=Lorn;432946]The New Left. I do expect whats coming to make the 60's look like a clown show.[/QUOTE]

Interesting thing, though, is that I don't see a bunch of people in a daisy-chain singing Kum Ba Yah, which is how I envision the 60s. There are lots of people that are against the war not because they are against war in general, but because they are against this war and this president, often in a vitriolic way. People are [B]pissed[/B], and today's antiwar advocate doesn't have to take a break from hugging a tree to go off on the Iraq situation.

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