HorizonForumsone horizon
Log inSign up

[ms] · Est. May 2002

Music madethis place,we just kept itgoing...

One durable person. One social graph. Many communities—and every way people speak, share, listen, write, gather and remember.

Forums / Politics

Bush's New Plan for Iraq

36 durable postsStarted 2007-01-11Latest 2007-01-24
#36910Post 1 of 36

OK, the new plan has been outlined, so what do people think? Here's the fact sheet from the White House's web site:

[URL="http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/01/20070110-3.html"]Fact Sheet: The New Way Forward in Iraq[/URL]

Overview:

[QUOTE]The President's New Iraq Strategy Is Rooted In Six Fundamental Elements:

  1. Let the Iraqis lead;
  2. Help Iraqis protect the population;
  3. Isolate extremists;
  4. Create space for political progress;
  5. Diversify political and economic efforts; and
  6. Situate the strategy in a regional approach.[/QUOTE]

Great ideas, all of them. I'm having trouble figuring out what the "new" part is, though. Haven't we been trying to do this all along?

I haven't seen Bush's actual speech, but I gather that the most significant part about it was him admitting mistakes and taking responsibility for them. Too little, too late, IMO, especially when the admission of mistakes is not accompanied by a significant change in course to correct those mistakes.

I dunno. In the interest of trying to put this in the best possible light, I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that, on the ground, things will actually be different and try to have some patience. On the other hand, as McCain said when he first advocated a troop surge, if it is apparent that the troop surge isn't working after a reasonable amount of time, we've got to pull them back so that we aren't just providing insurgents with more targets...

#787110Post 2 of 36

Re: Bush's New Plan for Iraq

dude, the bruise i have on my forehead from hitting my head on my desk...................ow..

#787120Post 3 of 36

Re: Bush's New Plan for Iraq

[img]http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/8535/564562900lay3rx8.jpg[/img]

#787124Post 4 of 36

Re: Bush's New Plan for Iraq

[QUOTE=Jenks;432131][img]http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/8535/564562900lay3rx8.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]

That is the most random picture I've ever seen.

#787125Post 5 of 36

Re: Bush's New Plan for Iraq

what about the notice he's given to Iran and Syria? I'd say that's new, isn't it? Needs to be done, imo.

#787126Post 6 of 36

Re: Bush's New Plan for Iraq

[quote=toasty;432112]OK, the new plan has been outlined, so what do people think? Here's the fact sheet from the White House's web site:

[URL="http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/01/20070110-3.html"]Fact Sheet: The New Way Forward in Iraq[/URL]

Overview:

Great ideas, all of them. I'm having trouble figuring out what the "new" part is, though. Haven't we been trying to do this all along?

I haven't seen Bush's actual speech, but I gather that the most significant part about it was him admitting mistakes and taking responsibility for them. Too little, too late, IMO, especially when the admission of mistakes is not accompanied by a significant change in course to correct those mistakes.

I dunno. In the interest of trying to put this in the best possible light, I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that, on the ground, things will actually be different and try to have some patience. On the other hand, as McCain said when he first advocated a troop surge, if it is apparent that the troop surge isn't working after a reasonable amount of time, we've got to pull them back so that we aren't just providing insurgents with more targets...[/quote]

I watched the speech live. He hasn't admitted any of his faults; only provided more execuses for seeking out new strategies. And in doing so, he's emphasized that we will lose more Iraqi and American people. I don't sit well with this.

#787130Post 7 of 36

Re: Bush's New Plan for Iraq

[QUOTE=88Mariner;432136]what about the notice he's given to Iran and Syria? I'd say that's new, isn't it? Needs to be done, imo.[/QUOTE]

I guess. It seems like much of it was just the same old, same old, though -- I guess the difference is that we really mean it this time?

#787134Post 8 of 36

Re: Bush's New Plan for Iraq

well i goddamn hope so. when you've got iran aiding the the counter-insurgency forces in iraq, not just with equipment but with actual fighters...you've gotta address the problem pronto.

#787220Post 9 of 36

Re: Bush's New Plan for Iraq

To address the problems he either has to send in a million troops or drop a nuke. If its about our asset's over there (which it is) then the only way is to send a million troops over to make damn sure the oil flows. The oil must flow.

#787243Post 10 of 36

Re: Bush's New Plan for Iraq

I watched the speech last night and only partially listened, but I did hear a couple of new points being emphasized. I also listened to others comment on the new strategy.

First, the Iraqi situation is unacceptable(the current buzz word from the admin) and Bush takes responsibility for the situation. The public should be and is frustrated with the Iraqi situation. Second, Iraq's goverment really and this time really needs to do something about the miltias and step up or we're leaving. They didn't explicitly say we'd leave, but that's the impression I got.

As for the strategy, supposedly we're going to stay in areas and hold them from insurgents. Supposedly, we've been fighting in hot zones and then going back to safe areas and the insurgents simply hide then come back once we leave. Now, we plan to stay in the area and let the infrastructure get built back up. Imo, this means more fighting and would require more troops. Also, I hear there's a new general in charge that's well respected to get things done.

Like everyone, I'm doubtful, but I think it's worth trying if they feel it could work. If it doesn't work this time, I think we'll be pulling out of Iraq.

#787472Post 11 of 36

Re: Bush's New Plan for Iraq

[img]http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/3113/iraqzn9.jpg[/img]

#787491Post 12 of 36

Re: Bush's New Plan for Iraq

[quote=superdave;432261]I watched the speech last night and only partially listened, but I did hear a couple of new points being emphasized. I also listened to others comment on the new strategy.

First, the Iraqi situation is unacceptable(the current buzz word from the admin) and Bush takes responsibility for the situation. The public should be and is frustrated with the Iraqi situation. Second, Iraq's goverment really and this time really needs to do something about the miltias and step up or we're leaving. They didn't explicitly say we'd leave, but that's the impression I got.

As for the strategy, supposedly we're going to stay in areas and hold them from insurgents. Supposedly, we've been fighting in hot zones and then going back to safe areas and the insurgents simply hide then come back once we leave. Now, we plan to stay in the area and let the infrastructure get built back up. Imo, this means more fighting and would require more troops. Also, I hear there's a new general in charge that's well respected to get things done.

Like everyone, I'm doubtful, but I think it's worth trying if they feel it could work. If it doesn't work this time, I think we'll be pulling out of Iraq.[/quote]

  1. The situation in Iraq has always been unacceptable: the coalition never had a grip on the situation.

  2. Yes the Iraqi government should take a harder position, but what are you expecting from them? First of all Iraq has never ever experienced democracy. They have to "get used to it" and learn how to play by the rules of a democracy. Secondly the government doesn't really have much authority and credibility in the eyes of the Iraqi people, which isn't used to democracy either.

Macedonia declared independance somewhat like 10 years ago. You can't call it a "retarded" country full of cavemen, but even though there are elections, a president and a parliament, there still is a long way to go before their institutions will work like they're supposed to... Installing a new political system takes time.

Rooting out the militia street by street in Baghdad is a good idea imo. But it won't end after Baghdad. Just look at the situation in Afganistan. Cleaning out the capital is just the first step if you don't want the boomerang to come back and hit you full frontal. I have serious doubts about the 20.000 btw. I heard a military specialist say on the radio that all army manuals regarding this kind of actions recommend the triple.

It's about time Bush pipes down and makes a gesture towards the Iraqis instead of setting examples. Like what? Like US troops helping the population to rebuild the infrastructure for example. KFOR troops did (and still are doing) that after the war in the Balkan, with respect, gratitude and goodwill from the local population as a result.

"Insanity can be defined by taking the same action over and over again while expecting a different result." (Albert Einstein)

#787948Post 13 of 36

Re: Bush's New Plan for Iraq

anyone notice that GWB did not invoke "God" once in this speech? curiously wondering if this has any significance...

#787956Post 14 of 36

Re: Bush's New Plan for Iraq

anyone notice that pussy european "rules of war" are what causes countries to actually lose wars.

bring back "shoot to kill, ask questions later" simply, because, that is what the enemy abides by while we listen and follow vaginal inspired rules from central europe, because hitler was just a little too cruel for them. its war FFS< kill em until you win, deal with shit later.

#788561Post 15 of 36

Re: Bush's New Plan for Iraq

Shoot to kill, ask questions later isn't exactly winning you guys the war either...

Stop thinking Black and White (either talk or shoot), it might help. IMO you'd have to shoot every last mofo in Iraq if you're not prepared to bring different ethnical/religious groups together by [I]talking[/I], because if you don't talk and especially listen there will never be understanding. And as a result, never peace.

If you hate talking, then good luck killing off a whole country.

#788613Post 16 of 36

Re: Bush's New Plan for Iraq

[quote=thesightless;433024]anyone notice that pussy european "rules of war" are what causes countries to actually lose wars.

bring back "shoot to kill, ask questions later" simply, because, that is what the enemy abides by while we listen and follow vaginal inspired rules from central europe, because hitler was just a little too cruel for them. its war FFS< kill em until you win, deal with shit later.[/quote]Excuse me? What rules of war? When you're AT war, you obviously shoot to kill, duh.

The point is that we try to avoid wars as much as possible. Be happy that your country never got bombed to pieces. Yes, a lot of American soldiers died in wars in Europe, Vietnam, etc... But it's a completely different ballgame when your own country is being invaded and occupied.

You always say that people in the ME have been slaughtering each other for centuries. Well, up until 1945 (and the late 90's if you include the Balkan war) we've been doing pretty much the same thing here. So excuse us for not being eager to go to war. You call it pussy, I call it intelligent.

#788876Post 17 of 36

Re: Bush's New Plan for Iraq

In short: [I]we learned from our past.[/I]

#788880Post 18 of 36

Re: Bush's New Plan for Iraq

The past holds much wisdom.

#788901Post 19 of 36

Re: Bush's New Plan for Iraq

and this is Vietnam for the US all over again...

#788972Post 20 of 36

Re: Bush's New Plan for Iraq

[B]Old Plan for Iraq:[/B] send in troops. defeat bad guys. leave when a robust, self-sustainable local democratic government is flourishing.

[B]New Plan for Iraq:[/B] send in a few more troops. defeat bad guys. leave when a robust, self sustainable local democratic government is flourishing.

Is it just me, or does the New Plan for Iraq....[I]look a hell of a lot like the Old Plan for Iraq? :what :shock: :what [/I]

#788981Post 21 of 36

Re: Bush's New Plan for Iraq

Pretty much.

#790479Post 22 of 36

Re: Bush's New Plan for Iraq

This plan is more political than stategic. A cover-your-ass measure by Bush- a symbolic last ditch errort to be able to say he tried everything, and also has the benefit of spreading some blame if the democrats try to stop it, then he can say they didn't let him finish. Either way this whole mess is really going to be left in the lap of the next administration. Just like the bill for the war, since Bush was busy cutting taxes while spending billions on this disaster.

#790493Post 23 of 36

Re: Bush's New Plan for Iraq

Looking at it from that point of view all I can say is he is a bastard.

#790508Post 24 of 36

Re: Bush's New Plan for Iraq

so the question is: what will hillary do? Well, i think we all know what she's gonna do. More importantly, I'm wondering what will be the long-term consequences of her actions.

#790623Post 25 of 36

Re: Bush's New Plan for Iraq

The question is really how bad does it get once we do eventually leave? There's alot of doomsday scenarios being thrown about, but even under the best circumstances, it is hard to envision too positive of an outcome.

Three basic posibilities-

A> some sort of uneasy status quo B> Massive civil war in Iraq, but overall contained C> fundamentalist Islam overcomes the entire region and we lose the entire middle-east, most likely lead by Iran, and Bush's war becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy

#792116Post 26 of 36

Re: Bush's New Plan for Iraq

[quote=thesightless;433024]anyone notice that pussy european "rules of war" are what causes countries to actually lose wars.

bring back "shoot to kill, ask questions later" simply, because, that is what the enemy abides by while we listen and follow vaginal inspired rules from central europe, because hitler was just a little too cruel for them. its war FFS< kill em until you win, deal with shit later.[/quote] wow :lol:

#792143Post 27 of 36

Re: Bush's New Plan for Iraq

this stupid plan for war is like trying to dry fuck a starving lion while covered in pheremones.

#792147Post 28 of 36

Re: Bush's New Plan for Iraq

hehehe...

Obviously these idiots need to read Sun Tzu. As should everyone.

#795616Post 29 of 36

Re: Bush's New Plan for Iraq

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJbHRfBInd8[/YOUTUBE]:lol::lol::lol:

#795643Post 30 of 36

Re: Bush's New Plan for Iraq

Nice editing job.

#795882Post 31 of 36

Re: Bush's New Plan for Iraq

jon stewart is a great person, I love his show. vote for this guy!

#796067Post 32 of 36

Re: Bush's New Plan for Iraq

[quote=apollo_1444;438757]jon stewart is a great person, I love his show. vote for this guy![/quote]

he's a comedian..................... :roll: :x and a moron on par with his counter point bill oreilly.

#796108Post 33 of 36

Re: Bush's New Plan for Iraq

[quote=thesightless;438956]he's a comedian..................... :roll: :x and a moron on par with his counter point bill oreilly.[/quote] why is he a moron?

#796281Post 34 of 36

Re: Bush's New Plan for Iraq

Figure of speech.

#797129Post 35 of 36

Re: Bush's New Plan for Iraq

he is a funny jew.

#797311Post 36 of 36

Re: Bush's New Plan for Iraq

[quote=apollo_1444;440124]he is a funny jew.[/quote]

OMG! this was so funny! keep up the great work! :lol:

Log in to reply