Just curious what people think will happen in the mid-terms. Thoughts?

Re: Mid-Term Election Predictions

[SIZE=2]I think they'll split - but honestly, this is a lose-lose situation in my eyes. [/SIZE] [SIZE=2][/SIZE] [SIZE=2]Should the Republicans defy the reelection predictions and retain control of both the House and Senate, it would only polarize the country even further. Democrats would probably cry foul and insist they were ripped off, bitch and moan about whatever conspiracy theory was the cause this time, and create a shitstorm of controversy and accusations that will last for months. The heads of the GOP would feel more emboldened than ever and continue right along with their stagnant policies, claiming that the people have spoken.[/SIZE] [SIZE=2][/SIZE] [SIZE=2]If the Democrats win the day and that shrew Nancy Pelosi takes power, then Washington will grind to an absolute halt. Nothing, nothing will get done. With a far left leader of the House, any bill, hell any idea brought by the Republicans will be shot down on site. The Left will finally have an open shot at the administration and will waste not one second in getting their licks in. Impeachment demands will just be the beginning, the Democrats will put 100% of their time and energy for the next 2 years in taking down the Republicans. The events going on in the world will be a distant second to getting their payback on the GOP. They will work to get an immediate withdrawal from Iraq, remove any kind of pressure that has been directed towards North Korea and at best, at [I]best, [/I]send a polite request to Iran to lay off the nukes, please, for now. Should this be the case and the Dems force their hand to pull out completely, I don't even want to think of what might/will happen.[/SIZE] [SIZE=2][/SIZE] [SIZE=2]Neither side presents a palatable option. Repub victory = the same shit with no change, the wedge further divides the country. Dem Victory = Washington bogged down with petty payback, nothing gets done.[/SIZE] [SIZE=2][/SIZE] [SIZE=2]Like Jack Nicholson said in Batman - this town needs an enema. If only we had a hose big enough....[/SIZE]

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Total gridlock is the best thing for a two party system. That way the people can get some work done.

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its a lose-lose situation on our behalf.......

at least leiberman will give a good showing, hopefully winning.

like i say, time to clean the houses, get em all out. no one should be sitting on their 7th term......

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[quote=thesightless;399153]no one should be sitting on their 7th term......[/quote]

Amen brother.

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[QUOTE=Lorn;399132]Total gridlock is the best thing for a two party system. That way the people can get some work done.[/QUOTE]

I don't know if I'd go so far as to characterize "total gridlock" as "the best thing," but having opposing parties in charge of the legislative branch and the executive branch, or even the different houses of the legislative branch, definitely does help insure that legislation is thoughtfully considered and is not simply ramrodded through by ideologues. The system works best when the folks that are supposed to be checking and balancing each other actually have differing viewpoints and do more than rubber stamp each other.

What would be bad is if the dems take over and, as bsully suggested, waste the opportunity by devoting a disproportionate amount of time and effort on payback or impeachment purely as a political statement (i.e., what the Republicans did with Clinton where they knew they wouldn't have the votes to actually remove him from office).

With that said, I would welcome an actual investigation into what got us where we are today with the whole Iraq thing. Folks on the right will say, "who cares how we got here, let's just look to the future," but the fact of the matter is that it [B]does[/B] matter how we got here to the extent that we can't let it happen again. Giving Bush, Cheney, Rice & Rummy the benefit of the doubt, it is still the worst intelligence failure I'm aware of in our nation's history, and none of the folks at the top of the chain have been called upon to answer for it at all. 655,000 Iraqis dead, and thousands of US soldiers dead or injured [I]on an admitted error[/I] at least merits sitting their asses down in front of Congress to answer some questions.

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[QUOTE]655,000 Iraqis dead[/QUOTE]

go check dumbest defense... its off by a few hundred K..... and it was clearly exposed

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[QUOTE=thesightless;399171]go check dumbest defense... its off by a few hundred K..... and it was clearly exposed[/QUOTE]

OK, that certainly raises some legitimate questions about the study, but I'm not seeing anywhere that confirms that "its off by a few hundred K" or that "it was clearly exposed."

Let's give you the benefit of the doubt, though. What's your point?

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Not to sound like a whining liberal here, because i'm far from that, but what is disturbing about the those iraqi death numbers, is yeah, it's off by a few hundred K...which brings us to a number we're comfortable with? Like-

"650k dead!! OUTRAGE!! .....OH, only 100k dead? ah, well that's cool."

:what

re: the elections-

all i know is, Prop 2 better pass in Missouri.

Re: Mid-Term Election Predictions

[QUOTE=Jenks;399189] all i know is, Prop 2 better pass in Missouri.[/QUOTE]

Any idea how it's looking? A friend of mine and I had this exchange Friday before the game:

Him: Do you vote? Me: Yes. Him: Do you know how you're going to vote on Amendment 2? Me: Yes, I'm voting yes. Him: [opens mouth to respond, then sheepishly closes mouth and looks frustrated] OK

I was left with the feeling that he's had this discussion with bunches of folks and was frustrated at the responses he was getting. Maybe I just said it with enough conviction that he knew that having a discussion about it wasn't going to change my mind. I dunno.

Good news is that there's a huge war chest to support it. Check this out:

[URL="http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/local/15889392.htm"]Amendment 2 Backers Shatter Fundraising Records[/URL]

edit: actually, per that article, looks like its at about 51% right now, down from 58% in September.

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[quote=toasty;399199]Any idea how it's looking? [/quote]

I have been driving around St. Louis a lot lately looking at rehab properties (just closed on one, weeee) and i'm seeing a LOT more "Vote Yes" signs vs. "Vote No" signs. Although, i've been driving through some of the more popular areas right now that are populated with young people- brentwood, richmond heights, stlouis hills, benton park, etc. Yes signs all over the place. I imagine the larger populated Chesterfield, west co, and ladue areas where all the old money and old fuckers live probably have a lot of No signs. Hope not tho. This issue pisses me off more than anything else in politics today.

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^^ that's the thing -- you drive around the bastion of liberalism that is St. Louis City and wonder how in the world something like this could fail. Even at the rally at the stadium on Sunday, Blunt was mercilessly booed when he was announced. Gotta remember there's a lot of folks in outstate MO, though, who do nothing but read their Bible and pop out of their houses every couple years to vote...

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"God" holding back Science...really gets me in a fit of rage man.

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my only point was that those numbers are way off and geared to make our country, not just our current admin, look bad, in part due to an outside group with an agenda...

but beside that point, my only concern over the next 3-4 years is that i see far right groups joining up in the european governments, in that they are slowly facing a different type of war, a cultural war, and if our country moves to far to the left, in a reactionary vote to the 3 stooges (rummy, rove and cheney), then we will again, have further strained relations with the one group that is realizing that north america and europe need to get together for mutual benifit.... we dont need, and pardon the term, a bleeding heart liberal amdinistration that might just actually end up being the polar opposite of our counterparts across the atlantic.

we really need to give mike bloomberg the presidency, and i know im gonna get flamed all around on that statement, but you cannot argue with what the guy does, how he does it, and the frankness in which he informs and handles the public. he has truly gotten the local parties on the same track, exposed the guys he has too, and has implemented his policies to overwhelming success with only minor objections, soley from bureocrats and unions......

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[QUOTE=thesightless;399231]north america and europe need to get together for mutual benifit.... we dont need, and pardon the term, a bleeding heart liberal amdinistration that might just actually end up being the polar opposite of our counterparts across the atlantic. [/QUOTE]

Uh, liberal, conservative, or whatever, I find it hard to fathom an administration doing a worse job of working together with the rest of the world than this one. US-everyone relations have been in a steady decline since March 2003. Whoever gets elected will, by default, be an improvement.

I thought you were the US-isolationist guy?

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not US, the middle east should be isolated since at every step the people themselves prove they arent even close to being in the same book, let alone the same page, as every other tolerant culture on this planet.

my only US isolationary thoughts come from when i see european and latin american fucknuts on stupid websites trying to tell the proto typical american how to vote. its our country, they have zero say on what goes on in the 50+ unless GW turns out to be saddam circa 85 (i.e. killing the opposition or innocents). and you know what, if the next few votes lead us to a further right wing government, too bad. even to ppl like me and you who clearly disagree with certain policies, that is what democracy is all about. majority rules. and adding to that thought, my opinion.... im actuallly scared if we suddenly see more ppl voting republican who didnt vote before as much as i am scared about going to the far left..... i can see it happening, you know, tons of people coming out of the woodworks to ensure the republicans maintain control.....

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[QUOTE=Jenks;399223]"God" holding back Science...really gets me in a fit of rage man.[/QUOTE]

you and me both -- if I lived in Kansas, I would have immediately moved after the school board voted to delete references to evolution in school textbooks back in '99. They still haven't completely unfucked that. Could you imagine growing up in Kansas and going to college somewhere else and having that be your first exposure to the idea that the earth is more than a few thousand years old? Indefensible, IMO.

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at that above.... word. dumbest thing ever.,.... how about teaching them all the options, and allowing them to make the educated decisions themselves...

""this is how religion views what happened, this is how science says it happened.. you pick one and keep it to yourself." EDIT:: i went to a very good catholic highschool, one of the best in the states actually, and they were strict catholic, but they had the common sense that while enforcing faith and religion, they also made it clear what science was up to and they openly encouraged us to understand both, and why....

again, if the people agreed to it there, no one has the right to complain about them.

Re: Mid-Term Election Predictions

Even if the Democrats win whatever, I don't see much getting done. It wouldn't surprise me if the Republicans retained both houses. They have a strong Christian base to support them. Unfortunately, Americans still see Democrats as weak on terrorism. The Democrats have no strategy for Iraq or a vision for the country. Their thing is that we're not Bush and change is necessary. Who cares what we believe.

And what about statements like Kerry made today inferring that people in the military are stupid. His own crowd that he was speaking to seemed offended after he said it. He's still been painted and probably correct as a liberal elitist.

I agree with the comment that everyone should be removed from office and start over again. Both sides suck.

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[quote=thesightless;399275]not US, the middle east should be isolated since at every step the people themselves prove they arent even close to being in the same book, let alone the same page, as every other tolerant culture on this planet.[/quote]I agree on that when you're talking about the regimes. However, I think that the war in Iraq has shown that the solution to the ME problem is a little more complicated than just installing a "cordon sanitaire" or dropping bombs. Top down solutions only hurt the civilian population, which is the best way to drive them right in the arms of the fundies. But hey, let's discuss that in another thread, right? ;)

[quote=thesightless;399275] my only US isolationary thoughts come from when i see european and latin american fucknuts on stupid websites trying to tell the proto typical american how to vote. its our country, they have zero say on what goes on in the 50+ unless GW turns out to be saddam circa 85 (i.e. killing the opposition or innocents). and you know what, if the next few votes lead us to a further right wing government, too bad. even to ppl like me and you who clearly disagree with certain policies, that is what democracy is all about. majority rules. and adding to that thought, my opinion.... im actuallly scared if we suddenly see more ppl voting republican who didnt vote before as much as i am scared about going to the far left..... i can see it happening, you know, tons of people coming out of the woodworks to ensure the republicans maintain control.....[/quote]Completely agree on that first point. The arrogance of some people here (Europe that is) to stigmatize Americans and to pretend that they should teach the US a lesson in democracy really ticks me off as well. First of all it's not their place and they're doing nothing else than what they accuse Bush of: generalizing a population and forcing a perspective/way of life down someone's throat. Secondly, it's thanks to those morons that you get burnt at the stake as a biased US hater when you voice a critical thought about the US foreign policy. Maybe the US brought that attitude upon itself by taking a rather arrogant position on the international scene, but on the other hand I can't blame Americans being fed up with those smart ass remarks. Anyway, that's why you won't hear me making bold statements in this thread. I'm just standing by the side lines watching the game here...

That said, I think these elections are pretty interesting. During the past few months I've been getting the impression that a lot of Americans have begun questioning the way the Bush administration is running the country as well as the way they approach international problems. I wonder whether and to what extent that's going to influence these elections.

By the way, why is Amendement 2 suddenly popping up in this debate? What's the link with the elections? If you guys could do us Euro trash a favor and include some links to background info in this thread, it would help us a lot to understand the situation and events, thx!

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[QUOTE=superdave;399304]It wouldn't surprise me if the Republicans retained both houses. They have a strong Christian base to support them. [/QUOTE]

This has definitely carried the day for them in the past -- question is to what extent those folks that vote strictly on religious grounds are turned off by Foley-esque behavior and the fact that despite having a stranglehold on things for the last 2 years, the Republicans haven't really done their bidding on some issues like they said they would. They did ultimately put Alito on the bench, but that was after Roberts and the Harriet Meirs debacle, neither of which were viewed as being conservative enough by the Religious Right.

[QUOTE=superdave;399304]Their thing is that we're not Bush and change is necessary. Who cares what we believe.[/QUOTE]

Works for me, unfortunately. It's not great, but it will have to do. I can't imagine them being any worse.

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[QUOTE=toasty;399324]This has definitely carried the day for them in the past -- question is to what extent those folks that vote strictly on religious grounds are turned off by Foley-esque behavior and the fact that despite having a stranglehold on things for the last 2 years, the Republicans haven't really done their bidding on some issues like they said they would. They did ultimately put Alito on the bench, but that was after Roberts and the Harriet Meirs debacle, neither of which were viewed as being conservative enough by the Religious Right.

Works for me, unfortunately. It's not great, but it will have to do. I can't imagine them being any worse.[/QUOTE]

It can always get worse, but I wouldn't mind seeing the Democrats win. The Republicans have grown arrogant, complacent, fat, and corrupt. They deserve to lose. I think the Democrats won't make a difference either if victorious, but one can only hope.

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[quote=superdave;399304]I agree with the comment that everyone should be removed from office and start over again. Both sides suck.[/quote]That's actually something I've been wondering a lot about lately: even though the Democrats seem to be dribbeling the ball towards an open goal (at least, that's how it looks like from this side of the Atlantic), they don't seem to have any players on their team that actually are capable of playing the game. On the other side you have a team of Republicans that are piling up fouls like brick layers...

Why is it that a country which is almost a continent on its own seems incapable of producing talented statesmen? When I compare the candidates I know to the members of the political corps of my little shit country, the difference in quality, leadership and above all strategical insight and vision is almost surreal...

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[quote=KinKyJ;399320] By the way, why is Amendement 2 suddenly popping up in this debate? What's the link with the elections? If you guys could do us Euro trash a favor and include some links to background info in this thread, it would help us a lot to understand the situation and events, thx![/quote]

Constitutional Amendment 2 A "yes" vote will amend the Missouri Constitution to allow and set limitations on stem cell research, therapies, and cures which will: [LIST] [] ensure Missouri patients have access to any therapies and cures, and allow Missouri researchers to conduct any research, permitted under federal law; [] ban human cloning or attempted cloning; [] require expert medical and public oversight and annual reports on the nature and purpose of any stem cell research; [] impose criminal and civil penalties for any violations; and [*] prohibit state or local governments from preventing or discouraging lawful research, therapies and cures. [/LIST] A "no" vote would not ensure that stem cell research permitted under federal law is allowed to be conducted in Missouri and that Missouri patients have access to stem cell therapies and cures permitted under federal law.

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[QUOTE=KinKyJ;399320] By the way, why is Amendement 2 suddenly popping up in this debate? What's the link with the elections? If you guys could do us Euro trash a favor and include some links to background info in this thread, it would help us a lot to understand the situation and events, thx![/QUOTE]

Sorry, Amendment 2 is a Missouri race regarding embryonic stem cell research. If you listen to the two sides of the debate, the bill has wildly different effects, from promoting such research to killing babies and starting a black market in female eggs, so I'll just post the text of the proposition and let you draw your own conclusions:

[QUOTE]?Shall the Missouri Constitution be amended to allow and set limitations on stem cell research, therapies, and cures which will: ? ensure Missouri patients have access to any therapies and cures, and allow Missouri researchers to conduct any research, permitted under federal law; ? ban human cloning or attempted cloning; ? require expert medical and public oversight and annual reports on the nature and purpose of stem cell research; ? impose criminal and civil penalties for any violations; and ? prohibit state or local governments from preventing or discouraging lawful stem cell research, therapies and cures??[/QUOTE]

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looks like Jenks beat me to the punch on that one.

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[quote=superdave;399304]

I agree with the comment that everyone should be removed from office and start over again. Both sides suck.[/quote]

That would be great. Only problem we face is no decent fellow would want to run for public office in todays day and age. How to clean out the festering wounds and cover with clean bandages is beyond me.

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Thanks for the update on Amendment 2 guys! So I take it this is one of the hot topics of these elections then (probably with Dem pro and Rep contra)? Or is there a seperate referendum about it?

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[QUOTE=KinKyJ;399465]Thanks for the update on Amendment 2 guys! So I take it this is one of the hot topics of these elections then (probably with Dem pro and Rep contra)? Or is there a seperate referendum about it?[/QUOTE]

That's basically correct about it being favored by dems, although it is a separate ballot measure and there are a lot of republicans that support embryonic stem cell research as well. Not purely a cause for the dems at all.

I don't know if you know who Michael J. Fox is (and forgive me if I'm telling you something you already know), but he was a popular actor during the 1980's and 90's here in the states. Anyway, he came down with Parkinson's and has been a vocal supporter of stem cell research ever since. He ran an ad here in Missouri in favor of the Democratic challenger to the Republican-held senate seat that is up for grabs that focuses on stem cell research that has caused some controversy -- he was suffering from the side-effects of his medication at the time he did the ad, so he's shaking from side to side throughout the whole thing. Check it out here:

[url]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6519714054634112418&q=michael+j+fox[/url]

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I watched MJ Fox on Inside the Actors Studio last night (love that show btw). He had to take a break for about 5 minutes during the show to go take medicine and let it kick in, and still, his outlook on life is so amazing. After i watched that show, it just made me angry how this is even an issue wether to allow stem cell research or not. WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE (non supporters) ??? Ugh, pisses me right off Loyd.

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[QUOTE=Lorn;399336]That would be great. Only problem we face is no decent fellow would want to run for public office in todays day and age. How to clean out the festering wounds and cover with clean bandages is beyond me.[/QUOTE]

We could start by getting rid of the money in the system from lobbyists, special interest groups, and big corporations. Politicians are like hustlers selling policy for money to keep getting re-elected.

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true. but just tossing aside millions of dollars like nothing won't happen. The system is out of control to the point these days that "reform" is like a huge blast of cold water plus a dosage of a few thousand volts of electricity to boot...no one's willing to take that much of a chance to fix it.

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[quote=superdave;399617]We could start by getting rid of the money in the system from lobbyists, special interest groups, and big corporations. Politicians are like hustlers selling policy for money to keep getting re-elected.[/quote]

Good one. Lets do it.

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[quote=FM;399682]true. but just tossing aside millions of dollars like nothing won't happen. The system is out of control to the point these days that "reform" is like a huge blast of cold water plus a dosage of a few thousand volts of electricity to boot...no one's willing to take that much of a chance to fix it.[/quote]

I hope it doesn't come to a point where we are all forced to deal with it.