Re: its gonna get good.... the vent thread.

[IMG]http://img22.exs.cx/img22/889/1FINAL.gif[/IMG]

Re: its gonna get good.... the vent thread.

im not flip flopping, in tired. our government and its wonderful infighting along with inept execution by runslfeld made the mess. i dont want to run, i am all for doing the job. ill clarify to avoid confusion.

i am still happy we deposed hussien and it only helped the rest of the planet he is gone. my remarks saying we shuold finish up there are that. we need to complete the job and stop thinking about getting out or prolonging a media campaign within. get tough, be more aggressive and do the job as opposed to what is currently happening there now. ill quote my cousin. CPT. Keiran Lowry or the US ARMY. he says that thier hands have been so tied in the opeerations there , they arent even allowed to run into a house unless they acheive approval from at least, but not limited to, 7 people. even if someone shoots at them, they need to gret permission to raid a house. normally this process takes about a hour.

i dont want to run, or to send more ppl in to do the same shitty job that rumsfeld is doing. i want to allow the m,ilitary to run the campaign. and to get very aggressive and stop trying to make peace with a group of people who we invaded. find the problem, eliminate the problem, train them, get the gov't moving, and give them a shitload of cash to repair the damage and improve living conditions.'

aif there are anymore questions about my opinion, ask clearly so i can reply, dont tell me what i think.

Re: its gonna get good.... the vent thread.

and lastly, NO ONE and i mean NO ONE outside of the baath party and those loyal to it, will ever knwo if there were WMD's. ppl will tell you yes or no, both are wrong, b/c no one knows for sure. we have found a few fighter jets buried in the sand, numberous bunkers, and there is still tons of land we wont ever comb through. there exist reports that they were flown out, and we have found chemical agents within the country. because the agents werent put into a missle casing, and put up on a launching turret for all to see, doesnt mean they definetly werent there. he used them in the past, but for any of the whino's to even consider, we would need a fully operational nuke to be shot down to shut them up.

Re: its gonna get good.... the vent thread.

[quote=Jenks]Did you know (i didn't until i heard it on the radio the other day) that the leading campaign $$ contributions come from environmental groups? Coincidence Al?[/quote]

that may or may not be the case (Exxon Moblie and Phillip Morris could be called environmental groups, no?) but either way Gore has been devoted to it since way back in the day, and it is an issue I care about. That is an interesting factoid, I'd love to know who these alleged groups are....

Re: its gonna get good.... the vent thread.

[URL="http://img22.exs.cx/img22/889/1FINAL.gif"][IMG]http://img22.exs.cx/img22/889/1FINAL.gif[/IMG][/URL]

j/k kobe, its all in good fun.

Re: its gonna get good.... the vent thread.

I still like this one

[quote=Jenks][URL="http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/5625/tshirthellshirt05fb4.jpg"][URL="http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/5625/tshirthellshirt05fb4.jpg"][IMG]http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/5625/tshirthellshirt05fb4.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/URL][/quote]

conservatives gotta breathe too, right? I mean I wish they wouldn't, but....

Re: its gonna get good.... the vent thread.

be fair, we need conservatives or we would be fucked. there is a balance in between. its when the idiots that are too far out on either side that we get lead where we are now. 2 terms of clinton and gov't moving just too far left, then a flip to a group that is so far to the right on what ended up being the big issue they make bill o reilly look liberal. like i said, its past being on the gov't its on us now. clear house. go independent and just freshen up.

Re: its gonna get good.... the vent thread.

^^Clean house, Amen!

Re: its gonna get good.... the vent thread.

The issue of how to handle Iraq will be very intriguing...I'm very interested to hear how the candidates will handle this one. Of course it will be the popular thing to say "let's just get the hell out of there tomorrow"...but is that really the right thing?

As much as I see the US having bungled the whole thing by getting involved there, I have to end up agreeing with Jenks and others...leaving now could be way worse. Why? Because we now unfortunately uphold the balance of power in the region. IF we leave, then the place will truly dissolve into open civil war...and next thing you'll see is Iran, Syria and others wade right in there and try to develop a new Middle Eastern balance of power in their favor. And it's no secret that those guys are friends with terrorists...the whole place will become a truly unrestricted breeding ground for them. Things are obviously already really dicey with Israel right now...imagine what this could lead them to do. It's just a powder keg waiting to go off, and the US evacuating would be the match that lights it.

That's why I'll have to be extremely suspicious of any candidate who advocates just pulling all the troops out and turning a blind eye to the aftermath.

Re: its gonna get good.... the vent thread.

the issue of iraq is simple.

do the job correctly, and do it now.

it entails a lot, but it really is that simple.

say goodbye to being nice and trying to conduct a PR campaign. let the troops get tougher, raid places, find the weapons and tell the iraqi people that if they really wanna stop the sectarian violence they need to cooperate with us and help out. all the while, training their police, getting the power grid back up, and getting the government to stop the little bullshit that each little group is pulling in an effort to gain an advantage, make them all sacrifice something for peace. if not, they face what currently going on, for a long time, or watch us go bye bye, and let whomever has the biggest gun and bomb budget win....

what points there really are arguable?

Re: its gonna get good.... the vent thread.

[quote=thesightless]be fair, we need conservatives or we would be fucked. there is a balance in between. its when the idiots that are too far out on either side that we get lead where we are now. 2 terms of clinton and gov't moving just too far left, then a flip to a group that is so far to the right on what ended up being the big issue they make bill o reilly look liberal. like i said, its past being on the gov't its on us now. clear house. go independent and just freshen up.[/quote]

well i hate to say it, but didn't Clinton help end the devastation in bosnia? at least he came out of his presidency with more than just a blowjob. the problem I have is that all of us Americans think subconsciously that politics is a game. I get infuriated when I walk around and here people say "oh well, next time we'll choose the right person." The lives of many people around the world are in our hands. We gotta buck up as Americans and actually do something about our political cockfighting.

Re: its gonna get good.... the vent thread.

[quote=Miroslav]The issue of how to handle Iraq will be very intriguing...I'm very interested to hear how the candidates will handle this one. Of course it will be the popular thing to say "let's just get the hell out of there tomorrow"...but is that really the right thing?

As much as I see the US having bungled the whole thing by getting involved there, I have to end up agreeing with Jenks and others...leaving now could be way worse. Why? Because we now unfortunately uphold the balance of power in the region. IF we leave, then the place will truly dissolve into open civil war...and next thing you'll see is Iran, Syria and others wade right in there and try to develop a new Middle Eastern balance of power in their favor. And it's no secret that those guys are friends with terrorists...the whole place will become a truly unrestricted breeding ground for them. Things are obviously already really dicey with Israel right now...imagine what this could lead them to do. It's just a powder keg waiting to go off, and the US evacuating would be the match that lights it.

That's why I'll have to be extremely suspicious of any candidate who advocates just pulling all the troops out and turning a blind eye to the aftermath.[/quote]

Iraq is like AIDS, there's no cure.

Re: its gonna get good.... the vent thread.

I think that Middle East is going to stabilize within the next 10-20 years. If one thinks back just 30 years ago, countries like Algeria, Tunisia, Lybia, Egypt etc were all supporting wars, terror etc etc. Picture is very different now, as most of them have mostly stabilized. IMHO, it has to do with the dropping birthrate, which depends on many factors (which I won't get into here). The greater the birthrate, the more young people there are clamoring for war. It's been my observation that there is a direct correlation between proportion of yoots/older adults in a given nation and its aggressiveness re. attacking/expanding/fighting a war - and not a defensive war at that.

Even Iran, despite Ayatollah regime, has a makeup of a country that will stabilize in near future. Most of the population does not support the regime, but are afraid to make a peep. Its birthrates are dropping as well, and are similar to some of the Western nations now. Iran reminds me of the Soviet Union in some ways - if it does not blow its gasket now, it probably stabilize as well when Ayatollah time passes.

Right now, Middle East is still an epicentre of instability - but it soon probably will not be (aside from local flareups like Palestine). It's not easy to believe, but as little 60 years ago Europe was an epicentre of instability, fought 2 world wars, had a cartload or revolutions etc etc. - and now it is not the case.

The next epicentre of instability, based on the same population ratio model, is likely to be Africa - particularly, it's black muslim segment.

Re: its gonna get good.... the vent thread.

I'm worried about the next President in 2008. The Islamic terrorists and regimes hate Bush and look forward to a weaker President. If we elect someone like Hillary or some wimpy liberal, the Middle East will be even more chaotic. Things can get worse and the reason it doesn't already is because of the U.S.

Re: its gonna get good.... the vent thread.

[quote=superdave]I'm worried about the next President in 2008. The Islamic terrorists and regimes hate Bush and look forward to a weaker President. If we elect someone like Hillary or some wimpy liberal, the Middle East will be even more chaotic. Things can get worse and the reason it doesn't already is because of the U.S.[/quote]

Bush has been the weakest president. The radicals are laughing at us. Look at the input we've put into this 'war' as opposed to our output. We really have nothing to show for this war. It really is no better than before the US went into Iraq. Honestly, I think a female president, whoever she may be, might actually do a better job then a male president.

Re: its gonna get good.... the vent thread.

[quote=Localizer]Bush has been the weakest president. The radicals are laughing at us. Look at the input we've put into this 'war' as opposed to our output. We really have nothing to show for this war. It really is no better than before the US went into Iraq. Honestly, I think a female president, whoever she may be, might actually do a better job then a male president.[/quote]

Hillary? :roflmao:

Re: its gonna get good.... the vent thread.

[QUOTE=Localizer]Bush has been the weakest president. The radicals are laughing at us. Look at the input we've put into this 'war' as opposed to our output. We really have nothing to show for this war. It really is no better than before the US went into Iraq. Honestly, I think a female president, whoever she may be, might actually do a better job then a male president.[/QUOTE]

Everything about your post is wrong except the unknown which is a female president. I don't think Hillary's the answer either. I'd like to hear your argument why a woman would do a better job as President.

We have plenty to show in the last few years, but more to go. In Afghanistan, the Taliban ran the country and we've killed or captured the majority of them. They have a democratic government in Afghanistan instead of a Islamic terrorist state.

As for Iraq, Saddam was a dictator killing innocents and attacking the U.S military with no consequences. Today, Iraq is a mess, but Saddam is out of power in jail and Iraq isn't a threat with WMD's which we thought it was.

Finally and most importantly, Osama Bin Laden is hiding from the entire world in a cave somewhere. Most of his deputies(Zaqawari - who you forgot) have been killed or captured. And in case you forgot again, we foiled another well planned terrorist attack last week.

There's your quick synopsis of the last few years. Where the hell have you been?

Re: its gonna get good.... the vent thread.

[QUOTE=superdave]I'm worried about the next President in 2008. The Islamic terrorists and regimes hate Bush and look forward to a weaker President. If we elect someone like Hillary or some wimpy liberal, the Middle East will be even more chaotic. Things can get worse and the reason it doesn't already is because of the U.S.[/QUOTE]

You're assuming there is some rational thought going into the hate, which gives these extremists too much credit. They hate us because they hate us, and they hate Bush because he is -- for better or for worse -- our leader. If Gore or Kerry would have been elected, they would have hated them with a passion as well.

These folks don't need a reason to hate us, they hate us because they do. A change in leadership isn't going to change this. Your point sounds strikingly like the fear-mongering that has characterized the republican's primary campaign themes since 2001, i.e., vote for us, because we're the only ones that can keep you safe.

[QUOTE=superdave]And in case you forgot again, we foiled another well planned terrorist attack last week. [/QUOTE]

Did we? I thought that was the Brits and the Pakistanis...

Sorry, I'm not convinced that we're safer because of anything Bush has done. I think we've avoided another attack since 9/11 in spite of Bush, not because of him. The things you've mentioned are positive steps, don't get me wrong, but I just think in the big picture, those advances have been offset by some significant problems.

Re: its gonna get good.... the vent thread.

exactly, they hit so called US interests before him, and they will do it after. terrorism didnt start with bush's election, and it will be around until the world can convince they peoples of the region, NOT the governments, that life can be better. peaceful relations only foster stronger relationships, and economic flourishment everywhere. its sad that essentially a battle of social and religious ideas have lead to a rift of societies that might never be repaired.

Re: its gonna get good.... the vent thread.

[quote=superdave] As for Iraq, Saddam was a dictator killing innocents and attacking the U.S military with no consequences. Today, Iraq is a mess, but Saddam is out of power in jail and Iraq isn't a threat with WMD's which we thought it was.[/quote]

You must be joking, right? Saddam was the best thing for Iraq and the region. He ran a tight dictatorship which kept the Sheits under control and more importantly kept Iran and Al Qaeda in check. Now we come along and kill far more Iraqis than he ever did, but more importantly have broken down what was in place which has lead to civil war and open terrorist states (Not so coincidentally this is how the Taliban came to rule Afghanistan if you bother to look back a few decades).

This Democracy shit is so overrated, it BARELY works in this country, and simply does not work for these two-bit sandlot republics. The same thing is seen all over Africa as "Democracies" replace Dictatorships, it wasn't great before but it is a whole lot worse now. Order is replaced by chaos, and sham governments.

Unfortunately Miroslav's analysis is correct- we are closer now to the middle-east aligning than ever before in history. This new unified middle east, 1> holds the key to our livelihood (oil) and 2> hates us. :|

Re: its gonna get good.... the vent thread.

[QUOTE=Kobe]You must be joking, right? Saddam was the best thing for Iraq and the region. He ran a tight dictatorship which kept the Sheits under control and more importantly kept Iran and Al Qaeda in check. Now we come along and kill far more Iraqis than he ever did, but more importantly have broken down what was in place which has lead to civil war and open terrorist states (Not so coincidentally this is how the Taliban came to rule Afghanistan if you bother to look back a few decades).

This Democracy shit is so overrated, it BARELY works in this country, and simply does not work for these two-bit sandlot republics. The same thing is seen all over Africa as "Democracies" replace Dictatorships, it wasn't great before but it is a whole lot worse now. Order is replaced by chaos, and sham governments.

Unfortunately Miroslav's analysis is correct- we are closer now to the middle-east aligning than ever before in history. This new unified middle east, 1> holds the key to our livelihood (oil) and 2> hates us. :|[/QUOTE]

Democracy overrated? Maybe you should convert to Islam and move to the Middle East and join the terrorists. I'm sure you'd be the first person they behead. Or maybe you like most liberals are scared of the Islamic terrorists.

Yes, I said it, you are simply scared of them. Quit being a pussy along with the other left wingers and support killing these evil bastards.

Re: its gonna get good.... the vent thread.

[quote=superdave]Democracy overrated? Maybe you should convert to Islam and move to the Middle East and join the terrorists. I'm sure you'd be the first person they behead. Or maybe you like most liberals are scared of the Islamic terrorists.

Yes, I said it, you are simply scared of them. Quit being a pussy along with the other left wingers and support killing these evil bastards.[/quote]

Oooo, intenet tough guy :lol:

What I said is that Democracy is overrated for these small little countries, for all intents and purposes the Dictatorships work better for everyone. I will always believe in the concept of Democracy, but that idea is useless without proper execution. If you think that puppet government in Iraq is working, then please plan your next vacation to Baghdad and enjoy the wonderful new Iraq.

Now I'm not sure from what you're extrapolating the rest of that shit you wrote, but it is interesting that you don't distinguish between Islam and the extreme fundamentalists.

Like you give a fuck about an Iraqi or making things better for them. :roll: Stop contradicting yourself.

Re: its gonna get good.... the vent thread.

[QUOTE=Kobe]Oooo, intenet tough guy :lol:

What I said is that Democracy is overrated for these small little countries, for all intents and purposes the Dictatorships work better for everyone. I will always believe in the concept of Democracy, but that idea is useless without proper execution. If you think that puppet government in Iraq is working, then please plan your next vacation to Baghdad and enjoy the wonderful new Iraq.

Now I'm not sure from what you're extrapolating the rest of that shit you wrote, but it is interesting that you don't distinguish between Islam and the extreme fundamentalists.

Like you give a fuck about an Iraqi or making things better for them. :roll: Stop contradicting yourself.[/QUOTE]

Ok then, why do you think that dictatorships work better for "these small countries" and not America? What's the difference?

And who said I don't distinguish between Islam and extreme fundamentalists? And again who said I don't care about Iraq?

Re: its gonna get good.... the vent thread.

[quote=superdave]Ok then, why do you think that dictatorships work better for "these small countries" and not America? What's the difference? [/quote]

Because we have law and order in this country, a defined legal system, and the man power to make it all work. Without any of those things, you have chaos. So what's better, a "free" anarchy in Iraq on the verge of civil war, or an orderly but oppressive regiem.

Re: its gonna get good.... the vent thread.

[quote=Kobe]Because we have law and order in this country, a defined legal system, and the man power to make it all work. Without any of those things, you have chaos. So what's better, a "free" anarchy in Iraq on the verge of civil war, or an orderly but oppressive regiem.[/quote]

I thought Democracy was overrated and barely works here according to you. Now, you're saying it works great here and we have "the man power to make it all work".

You're contradicting yourself.

Btw, I think Iraq has rules against killing people and blowing up bombs. The terrorists don't abide by the rules.

Re: its gonna get good.... the vent thread.

No, I've been consistent, Dem does work here, but most will agree it is as good as it should be-- low voter turnout, weak candidates, corrupt politicians, special interests, etc

Other weaker democracies, particularly puppet governments (where the people have no regard for the government and/or the government has no control over the people) such as Iraq and various African republics are a far cry from our implementation, and don't work nearly as well.

In these cases from my perspective, I think a nice tight dictatorship works much better. (Don't get me wrong, if they sack up and decide to change their own country, more power to them, but when and outsider comes in and decides their government for them, this is what you get)

But if you disagree, then by all means please tell me how we have improved things in Iraq and for the region?

Re: its gonna get good.... the vent thread.

can we bring this back to the pathetic candidates were will be looking at in a few years. like i said, if the democratic nomination comes down to hillary or another john kerry run. we are all fucked unless guiliani pulls a rabbit out of his hat. but then again, that guy just executes properly, ignoring sentiment, so he has pissed off a lot of republicans.

seriously, can we fuck off on the iraq arguements, while we fucked up their country, no one there is actually trying to help themselves, at any level. the whole region is nothing but a waste of time after the oil.

Re: its gonna get good.... the vent thread.

The key in this is that Iraq is a battlefield where we have a chance to defeat the enemies coming toward us. The war on terror is cultural and philosophical. It's between ideologies and philosophies of those who want the freedom to determine their own path, using their own power to vote; and those who wish to dictate what that path will be, using intimidation and force, and it will be fought on many battlefields.

Re: its gonna get good.... the vent thread.

[quote=superdave;363435]I thought Democracy was overrated and barely works here according to you. Now, you're saying it works great here and we have "the man power to make it all work".

You're contradicting yourself.

Btw, I think Iraq has rules against killing people and blowing up bombs. The terrorists don't abide by the rules.[/quote]

what are you talking about dude...did you even read his post?