in your opinion.

#28602Post 1 of 322006-05-26

what is worse about the war in iraq.

the fact that we went there to begin with

or

the fact that we let rumsfeld send in half the troops we should have.

cuz, in the end, i, personally and in my own opinion, think in the end, the place is better off, BUT, we really fucked up in the execution.

and if you plan on saying there arent any WMDs. dont. we dont know. conflicting accounts say theywere sent out, or never existed, or hidden.. we will never know and for all we know they could still be in the country in some bunker buried under sand.

#642667Post 2 of 322006-05-26

Re: in your opinion.

personally i think the war will only fuel more hatrid in the long run, the war is justified in some ways but i think that if the situation was to be left alone then over time they would of got sick of the way they were living and probibly would of let the violence slowly die itself, i think the bush administration was scared of the power that iraqies could of gained from the profits of the oil revenue and become to like the polititians in the western world, in my eyes this is what this war was all about but really although i,m in the UK i,m not really in a position to comment on this whole situation.

#642795Post 3 of 322006-05-26

Re: in your opinion.

Iraq was just a staging point to secure the middle east. Next will be Iran and now they can take the saudi's out.. Also North Korea is a staging point for Asia and China..

#642812Post 4 of 322006-05-26

Re: in your opinion.

Went there. The whole thing was built on lies.

#642836Post 5 of 322006-05-26

Re: in your opinion.

would have gone regardless...just needed a good enough excuse to do so and it came probably sooner than anticipated.

Screwing up the execution is the bad part; not so much prolongating the time over there (as it would have been a while as is), but just the arrogance of reporting that we would waltz over and that would be it...well this wasn't Gulf War I again...people got a bit smarter.

#642914Post 6 of 322006-05-27

Re: in your opinion.

i know this may sound a bit conspiracy but the whole 911 thing could of been staged in order to attempt this kind of thing, whats a couple of thousand working lives if its going to get in the way of global control, that thought has crossed my mind many many many times and the more i read into the whole bush "family" thing the more i'm convinced....i wouldnt put it past the CIA though all u have to do is look @ how in the 60/70's the CIA used the whole UFO thing to create a mask for what was really going on with stealth etc etc

#642960Post 7 of 322006-05-27

Re: in your opinion.

They shouldn't have gone there in the first place. Saddam was of no threat outer than his own people. And owkay the situation for his own people was in some cases very bad but there are worse motherfuckers in the world would should get a nomination to be wiped of the charts (Mugabe).

The bad thing is also that the international community still to this day doesn't do a goddamend thing about the whole sitaution in Iraq. It shows us how hypocrite organizations as the UN are. Iraq is an illegal invasion, not too mention Abu Graib and Gautanamo Bay, which is in fierce contrast of international laws and agreements.

The USA government assraped the rest of the world with invading Iraq, a place that simply isn't their right to own.

#643013Post 8 of 322006-05-27

Re: in your opinion.

What bothers me is that the military isn't fighting the way it could. There's too much politics in the war. If the military really wanted, it could kill many more people or all of them and be done with this insurgency.

Like some have said, we don't have the political will to carry out a war. That said, we really have no business getting ourselves into wars if we continue trying to appease the lawyers and media. Troops are scared of being dragged into court for excessive force and the media attacks Bush through the military. The same thing happened in Vietnam and we all know how that went.

Plus, the American public and media expects a quick American victory with no casualties. If anyone gets killed, immediately people begin questioning if we should be engaging in war which is flawed way of thinking.

#643084Post 9 of 322006-05-28

Re: in your opinion.

These questions hurt my head...

#643092Post 10 of 322006-05-28

Re: in your opinion.

[quote] what is worse about the war in iraq.

the fact that we went there to begin with

or

the fact that we let rumsfeld send in half the troops we should have. [/quote]

They're both as bad as the other imo.

Invasion/occupation based on lies = wrong

More troops sent to invade/occupy on the basis of lies = wrong

[quote] and if you plan on saying there arent any WMDs. dont. we dont know. conflicting accounts say theywere sent out, or never existed, or hidden.. we will never know and for all we know they could still be in the country in some bunker buried under sand. [/quote]

There were no WMDs in the lead up to the invasion and occupation of Iraq.

There, I said it.

Your government lied about the presence of these imaginary WMDs in Iraq just as it did about everything else in the lead up to this Invasion.

This is a fact. Get over it.

UN inspections couldn't find them, the US/foreign forces couldn't find them and they have access to everything and everyone in Iraq.

Ask yourself, would you invade a country that could retaliate with WMDs?

Your government would not dare attack anyone that could.

They will only attack/invade countries that are militarily weak/defensless and even then they are still subject to defeat.

Hell, even your own president thought the WMDs thing was a big joke. You remember at his annual affair, when he decided that it would be really funny to make picture flashes of himself searching for WMDs under his own desk/curtains at the white house? And at that same time thousands of Iraqi men, woman, children were murdered and little over 400 US soldiers were killed, whilst on an empty search for those imaginary WMDs.

( [URL="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3570845.stm"]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3570845.stm[/URL] )

I can't believe that Americans are actually overseas invading murdering and dying for a reckless/psychopathic/greedy/retarded administration, lead by a president who has proven to whole world and without doubt, that he is, an outright idiot. And what's even more disturbing is hearing and watching people support and defend the decisions that these nutjobs are making in Americas name. The damage that these nutjobs are doing to the reputation of the US is going to last for many generations to come and things are going to get alot worse before they even have a slight chance of getting better.

The so called war on terror was lost even before it had started, simply because of lies, lies and more f***ing lies, that continue to spew out till this very second from the mouths of those pieces of shit that form the US government and their partners in crime.

#643217Post 11 of 322006-05-28

Re: in your opinion.

In retrospect the US could've pulled this war of with a lot of support if they hadn't been to headstrong in just wanting to go whatever the reason: they should've pointed out the fact that Saddam had been dissing the UN for 10 years already, and if they had waited just a little longer (Oil-for-Food scandal) the UN would have been nailed - IMO support would have been massive in that case, since showing a splash of balls was the only way the UN could've saved face at that time.

That being said, from an opponent i've moved to somewhere in the middle because of the way things were handled throughout, and the only way to go to proponent is if the US completes the job in the right way and stops keeping up appearances.

On a related note, just as Xessex said, there are more despots like Saddam that are now still in power and untouched, but with the NEPAD initiatiative now in effect in Africa it will be much harder for non-African organizations and countries to invade - all this because it puts the responsiblity for what happens on the continent with the Africans themselves. Maybe also a perfect way to keep the West out the door if they want to....

#643915Post 12 of 322006-05-30

Re: in your opinion.

im have come to the point where i no longer want the US to ever get involved again. fuck all your countries with replies from ppl who spew shit about us. and there is a few defectors who said they shipped WMD based materials to syria before the war. fuck africa, cut off funding and aid to middle east. just isolate ourselves with those who want to be friendly. and comepletely cut off trade and military aid to everyone. including half of the european union, australia, africa and middle east, you damn well that if the US were asked to help out in africa, the minute we landed there, there would be whino fucks like dig21 with a problem on it. so as long as everyone maintains the status quo and thier back is never scratched everyone is happy. i honeslty think that half of the assholes barking about this retarded war and its "lies"" would rather have allowed ppl like saddam to continue his bahaviour and would furthermore let mugabe come to the table in international negotiations all the while the situation continuing. if it isnt done thier way they act like a 2 year old.

#643998Post 13 of 322006-05-30

Re: in your opinion.

Sean, you are so retarded.... Go to church or something...

#644009Post 14 of 322006-05-30

Re: in your opinion.

why because i think that taking the ""the us lies all the time and is evil"" route is fucking retarded??

i wish saddam invaded a european country or australia and maybe ppl's points change. everyone who bitches about what the us military does would rather let the people suffer if only to avoid dealing with it.

#644032Post 15 of 322006-05-30

Re: in your opinion.

Oh dear

#644040Post 16 of 322006-05-30

Re: in your opinion.

[COLOR=white][quote]im have come to the point where i no longer want the US to ever get involved again[/quote][/COLOR] [COLOR=white][/COLOR] [FONT=Arial][COLOR=white]Good, I'd say the rest of the world would also be happy if the US and it's partners in crime never get involved in invading countries for reasons purely based on lies.[/COLOR] [COLOR=white][/COLOR][/FONT] [COLOR=white][quote]fuck all your countries with replies from ppl who spew shit about us[/quote][/COLOR] [COLOR=white][/COLOR] [COLOR=white]Fuck the world, we're # 1, yeah, yeah. Sadly, this does appear to be the same attitude that the US is projecting towards the rest of the world in relation to it's foreign policy. [/COLOR] [COLOR=white][/COLOR] [COLOR=white][/COLOR] [COLOR=white][quote]and there is a few defectors who said they shipped WMD based materials to syria before the war. fuck africa, cut off funding and aid to middle east[/quote][/COLOR] [COLOR=white][/COLOR] [COLOR=white]Let it go man, the defectors like your government have been exposed as bullshit artists.[/COLOR] [COLOR=white][/COLOR] [COLOR=white][/COLOR] [COLOR=white][quote]just isolate ourselves with those who want to be friendly[/quote][/COLOR] [COLOR=white][/COLOR] [COLOR=white]Lol, England and Australia, is there anyone else?[/COLOR] [COLOR=white][/COLOR] [COLOR=white][/COLOR] [COLOR=white][quote]comepletely cut off trade and military aid to everyone. including half of the european union, australia, africa and middle east,[/quote][/COLOR] [COLOR=white][/COLOR] [COLOR=white]Then what?[/COLOR] [COLOR=white][/COLOR] [COLOR=white][/COLOR] [COLOR=white][quote]you damn well that if the US were asked to help out in africa, the minute we landed there, there would be whino fucks like dig21 with a problem on it.[/quote][/COLOR] [COLOR=white][/COLOR] [COLOR=white]If the US land there and help them the same way, that they landed in Iraq and helped the Iraqis, then I'm afraid that I'll also have a problem with this. [/COLOR] [COLOR=white][/COLOR] [COLOR=white][quote]i honeslty think that half of the assholes barking about this retarded war and its "lies"" would rather have allowed ppl like saddam to continue his bahaviour [/quote][/COLOR] [COLOR=white][/COLOR] [FONT=Arial][COLOR=white]What's the difference? the world allows Bush and his partners in crime continue on in their pshycotic behaviour.[/COLOR] [COLOR=white][/COLOR][/FONT] [COLOR=white][/COLOR] [COLOR=white][quote] [/COLOR] [COLOR=white]and would furthermore let mugabe come to the table in international negotiations all the while the situation continuing. if it isnt done thier way they act like a 2 year old[/COLOR] [COLOR=white][/quote][/COLOR] [COLOR=white][/COLOR] [COLOR=white]" If you're not with us, then you're against us " [/COLOR] [COLOR=white][/COLOR] [COLOR=white]Sound familiar?[/COLOR]

#644075Post 17 of 322006-05-31

Re: in your opinion.

[quote=thesightless]. fuck all your countries with replies from ppl who spew shit about us. [/quote]

woh steady man!!!!

i didnt spew shit about you lot !!! there was a justified reason for going into iraq and trying to sort it out both politically and also mentally but i think before people try to do this then they must educate the people who they are sending to do this about the people that they are trying to help, many people in iraq only see the only reason both the US and the UK are in there is so they can capitalise on the oil in the future by forging a relationship with the forming goverment in Iraq, you know how popular the conspuracy way of thinking is becoming these days and i for one am i conspiracy junkie lol. What pisses me off about the whole thing is that the countries who are supposed to be allies of both the US and the UK dont get of there asses to actually help these countries try to achieve what they want to achieve but when it comes to us helping those countries it becomes a different thing....its a difficult topic to discuss, war always is, i guess you just have to sit back and let time take its tole....really there is nothing else you can do

#644114Post 18 of 322006-05-31

Re: in your opinion.

[quote=thesightless]i wish saddam invaded a european country or australia and maybe ppl's points change. everyone who bitches about what the us military does would rather let the people suffer if only to avoid dealing with it.[/quote]

Like so?

[IMG]http://www.worth1000.com/entries/11500/11806_w.jpg[/IMG]

:lol::lol::lol:

So what are you trying to say with that? Iraq didn't invade the US, so probably all of a sudden the US is the global conscience or what? :roll:

It was an illegal war to start with. Nuff said

#644149Post 19 of 322006-05-31

Re: in your opinion.

what , you want me to change my opinion? not a chance. our retard president tried to help out and everyone groups us with him. fuck that. next time, i hope it ur place that needs help. fuck it. i sont say the guy is a genious, but it isnt like our military is doing night raids for fun, they got rid of a guy who has killed millions and half the world would rather see the guy back in power. fuck that. at least he tried. it got silly once all the stupid infighting occured. its a dumb war yeah, but damn, at least the shit is going to be better off in a few years.

#644162Post 20 of 322006-05-31

Re: in your opinion.

[SIZE="1"][QUOTE=dig72][COLOR=white][/COLOR] [COLOR=white][/COLOR] [FONT=Arial][COLOR=white]Good, I'd say the rest of the world would also be happy if the US and it's partners in crime never get involved in invading countries for reasons purely based on lies.[/COLOR] [COLOR=white][/COLOR][/FONT]

[COLOR=white]Fuck the world, we're # 1, yeah, yeah. Sadly, this does appear to be the same attitude that the US is projecting towards the rest of the world in relation to it's foreign policy. [/COLOR]

[COLOR=white]Let it go man, the defectors like your government have been exposed as bullshit artists.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=white]Lol, England and Australia, is there anyone else?[/COLOR]

[COLOR=white]Then what?[/COLOR]

[COLOR=white]If the US land there and help them the same way, that they landed in Iraq and helped the Iraqis, then I'm afraid that I'll also have a problem with this. [/COLOR]

[FONT=Arial][COLOR=white]What's the difference? the world allows Bush and his partners in crime continue on in their pshycotic behaviour.[/COLOR] [COLOR=white][/COLOR][/FONT] [COLOR=white]" If you're not with us, then you're against us " [/COLOR] [COLOR=white][/COLOR] [COLOR=white]Sound familiar?[/COLOR][/QUOTE][/SIZE]

Fuck yeah! Thank you sooooo much like you don't even know....

Now if he spews pathetic asinine lowlife shit like this, I will be able to say " Sean... as we know there is at least one person on the other side of the planet that would love to tell you to SHUT YOUR STUPID FUCKING TRAP! And there is one person in front of you who suggests you do the same if you'd like to continue being able to be in the same room as me without the likely possibility of me plotting your multimedia-documented traumatizing public-humiliation."

In other words Sean, I don't care to be around those who advocate dictating that which they have done nothing to warrant the entitlement or invitation to help intervene. Find a way to get a rise out of people that provokes actual thought at the same time. Post the same retarded articles you already do, they will enrage people just the same and incite heated discussion due to their "ideas" and content. I would love to know you could openly acknowledge that you don't actually believe that pathetic sickening bullshit you wrote in the opening post of this thread.

I find it increasingly difficult to buy into your multiple personalities...

1- Pleasant addition to the dance floor group besides the belligerent episodes that you've been good about avoiding lately....

2- Proving once or twice you are capable of being open minded enough to be compatible socially with my group of friends that treat everyone with respect, include an outlaw, a clergy member "of a different kind", some scientists, an attorney, an MD and have many other talents in addition to their careers.

3- The disgust-inducing, not even ironic-funny, antithesis to the kind of person I care to ever be around. Someone who "says" things that no matter how many good qualities they also have, you honestly can't overlook them enough to justify respecting them as a person... You say you like to get a rise out off people by being a dick on the board, but the more I look at it I really get the gut feeling that you honestly believe a lot more of what you say than what you don't.

I have been witness to you being a good person in practice and have had you even vow to beat the shit out of some asshole who started trying to have a drunken fight with me. I appreciate and respect that you have done these things and haven't forgotten them. I just don't see how you can continually write these illogical, ethno/culture-centric, and horribly void of the characteristics of someone who understands what in life is truly important.

The world is an incredibly complicated and sometimes terrifying place, and I won't pretend that I have solid confidence that anyone in any political party has a noble and effective alternative to the shit you proclaim as the only possible route to a solution. However, I don't believe that someone who proposes plans that take such one-dimensional views into consideration on more often multi-dimensional quandries of the world is a person who really "gets it" or shows any signs of even trying to. That being said, combined with what I spoke about being important to me, I really don't respect the sum total of the equation that is Sightless + Sean. I can't see that you have looked into yourself, thought about what and who you saw long and hard enough to have a conscious awareness of your true convictions in life. I say that because anytime think I see evidence of one, you contradict yourself. Or maybe you have done this, and do have them, and there just isn't a common denominator between yours and my own.

Yes, I realize I have written a book or I am at least on that path, I think I have been blunt and probably as close as I care to get to giving an ultimatum. I really want the conclusion of all this to be me finding out that you are the person I really do like that I think I have seen, and not the one I surmise and fear that you actually are. I very much want this post as a whole to not be some big attack on you, but rather one that will make you think and precipitate a dialog that if nothing else, reaches an understanding of some kind. I want to make it clear though that by that I also mean I hope you understand how serious I am about being honest to myself as to who my friends are and that which makes them the people I want/need to be around, and honest about what it is about you that I value and enjoy, equally though; what I can't be around... When I think that we spend the majority of time together while on a dancefloor or on this board that is, in-theory at least, about that same notion, it just really affirms my beliefs in those being the places where I want to be surrounded by the people most gratifying to me (not including my family, but not any less important than them either) and I don't wan't to compromise that for myself neither do I want to make it awkward for you or myself... Just understand that when all is said and done, I don't want to waste my time or energy with someone who turned out to be a dick that I gave as much opportunity as I could to prove himself otherwise.

PS - Wow I didn't plan on this being anything at all like what it turned out to be, but I did end up spending a lot of thought on it and it is completely and in all honesty "from the heart". I use quotes because it's just way too much my style to sarcastically refer to myself as a lowlife bitch on this board to have this message end on a mushy note.... ok?

#644183Post 21 of 322006-05-31

Re: in your opinion.

[QUOTE]what , you want me to change my opinion[/QUOTE]

No, your opinion is your opinion, nobody can change that but we sure as hell can disagree with it when asked.

[QUOTE]our retard president tried to help out and everyone groups us with him[/QUOTE]

Help in what way exactly?

The majority of voters in the US elect him in and as a result he gets to represent all Americans. As mentioned before, every crazy decision made by the nutjobs that make up the current administration is a reflection of the country and it's people as a whole.

[QUOTE]i sont say the guy is a genious[/QUOTE],

Lol, that's an understatement of the century.

[QUOTE]but it isnt like our military is doing night raids for fun,[/QUOTE]

The military do as they are told, they aren't the issue, it's the orders given to them by the crazies in power that people have issues with.

[QUOTE]they got rid of a guy who has killed millions and half the world would rather see the guy back in power. [/QUOTE]

So killing is ok just as long as it's done by the US and it's partners in crime and not an Arab.

[QUOTE]fuck that. at least he tried[/QUOTE]

Agreed, Bush and the whitehouse crazies tried to hoodwink the rest of the world and got caught out with lies. And the most sad and disturbing thing to see is supposedly "educated" people shamelessly defend the actions of these crazies in power. These crazies are criminals and deserve to be treated as such. Bush and his cronies need to be arrested ASAP and tried for crimes againt humanity the same way that Sadaam is being tried. They do not deserve anymore respect than Sadaam.

[QUOTE]its a dumb war yeah, but damn, at least the shit is going to be better off in a few years[/QUOTE]

It never was a war, it was an invasion which quickly become an occupation of a entire sovereign nation which never ever posed a threat to the US and it's cronies.

#644554Post 22 of 322006-05-31

Re: in your opinion.

I would say that most countries in the world would bite the US's hand off if they offered to withdraw and keep themselves to themselves. I would hazard a guess that the world situation would be better then than it is now.

No one is denying that the US DOES help out in certain countries, financially/economically or whatever, but you have to admit that they conjured up a reason for going to war, they have covered up reasons for maintaining that war also.

Why couldn't the US just go in there and kill Saddam, it would take them about 2 minutes. You can bet your bottom dollar that if the US wanted YOU dead, you wouldn't even have enough time to listen to GU San Fran one more time before you'd have a bullet in your head.

thesightless - unfortunately the actions of your govt have caused a lot of people to dislike the US - I dislike the US govt intensely, but not the citizens of the US. I have visited once, and found every US person I met to be friendly

#644732Post 23 of 322006-06-01

Re: in your opinion.

To be honest I'm a bit fed up with these iraq threads. It's like the internet stuck on repeat... the ranting stays the same, only the title changes.

#644853Post 24 of 322006-06-01

Re: in your opinion.

[QUOTE=miketpoto][SIZE="1"][/SIZE]