listen i know the difference between right and wrong isnt always the legal - illegal comparison, but do all these ppl (beaners) realize that even when they argue against ANY change they use the words illegal imigrants.... and i havent been paying attention but isnt bush going for a better method than kicking them out and criminalizing them. isnt he backing a clemency program and sponsorship? i dont know and im not reading articles so some1 tell me. but when GW2 and teddy kennedy agree on something i instantly ask questions...

imo, this country does need tougher imigration policy, something more like france, germany, or italy, nederlands, etc. where you actually have to learn the history and laws and culture before you just open up an """afghan diner""" or landscaping business.

there has to be a happy medium in here, we cannot simply live with open borders and allow illegals to suck up resources they dont pay for. but we cant become a closed society like australia has within thier policies.

PS along the lines of recent threads. -- fuck em, we need em, just dont let em open a 5 family house on my block.

Re: american illegal immigration.......

We've needed to do a better job protecting our borders for years. We wouldn't be having this problem if the government had done its job years ago. The politicians have been too scared to touch this issue for fear of being labeled a racist who hates Hispanics.

And now the Congress is considering rewarding illegal aliens for living in this country. From what I read, there are 12 million illegal aliens currently living here. That's half the population of the state of Texas which is the 2nd most populous state. At this rate, Mexico will reclaim Texas and the entire Southwest states in a generation.

Sure, we need many of those illegal immigrants to work here, but there needs to be a tougher policy towards protecting America.

Re: american illegal immigration.......

they just had the governer of new mexico on Imus and he says that mexico estimates that 31% of its national income comes from money sent back from Illegal workers in the US ...... thats fucked up.

Re: american illegal immigration.......

I don't understand why people feel the need to coddle folks that have chosen to enter this country and work here illegally. If you are not a US citizen and want to live and/or work in this country, there is a process to do so -- use it and take advantage of all this country has to offer above board like the rest of us do. The way I look at it, if you're working here, paying your taxes here, pumping money into our economy here, then you're welcome to come here and stay. The American dream is alive and well for millions of people who have dotted their i's and crossed their t's and gone through the system the right way.

I am puzzled at the illegal immigrants who purport to claim some sort of entitlement to the right to work here illegally and the benefits of US citizenship. If you are working here under the table, not paying taxes, and driving down the wages of people legitimately working in this country, you lose the right to complain that the country ought to be doing more for you.

I am even more puzzled that the president of Mexico believes he ought to have some say in US Immigration policy. :shock: I just don't understand that at all.

Amnesty is a terrible idea. That send the message that if you come to work here illegally and hang around long enough, eventually we'll give you a pass. The amnesty program back in the 80's worked wonders -- 3 million illegal workers were given amnesty, and now we have 12 million people working illegally in the country.

I don't have the answer, but I think it starts with cracking down on businesses that employ illegal immigrant labor. Cut off the opportunity to work here illegally, and people wanting to work here will have to go through the proper channels.

My $.02.

Re: american illegal immigration.......

one simple idea

bigger voter base once the illegals have kids here. one kid lets you begin voting, eating up welfare, and more becuase the kid gets a US social security number. many tales of workers bringing their wives here just to birth children, get the social security number and then they send them back to mexico while using all the US based social services.

Re: american illegal immigration.......

[quote=superdave]We've needed to do a better job protecting our borders for years. We wouldn't be having this problem if the government had done its job years ago. The politicians have been too scared to touch this issue for fear of being labeled a racist who hates Hispanics.

And now the Congress is considering rewarding illegal aliens for living in this country. From what I read, there are 12 million illegal aliens currently living here. That's half the population of the state of Texas which is the 2nd most populous state. At this rate, Mexico will reclaim Texas and the entire Southwest states in a generation.

Sure, we need many of those illegal immigrants to work here, but there needs to be a tougher policy towards protecting America.[/quote]

Correction... Texas is not the second most populous state in the U.S.

1. California
2. New York
3. Florida

and soon, Florida will be passing New York for the #2 spot. Amazing growth we having been seeing in this state as birds continue to migrate south.

Re: american illegal immigration.......

you know to be honest: i'm from europe and to tell you the truth - not that many people wanna come here anymore. europe is getting better - more job opportunities etc. i've been living in the us for over four years now and i really don't understand why us immigration policies are so strict - everyone has the right for a better life.

Re: american illegal immigration.......

[QUOTE=sotek]i really don't understand why us immigration policies are so strict - everyone has the right for a better life.[/QUOTE]

ultimately, it comes down to cash, I think. Illegal immigrants who work don't pay taxes, and their employers don't pay taxes on them, either. Also, when illegal immigrants are willing to work for less than the minimum wage, it reduces the incentive for businesses to use legitimate labor and drives down the wages for all laborers.

Also, 9/11 didn't make people any more eager to open up the borders, I think. Granted, the 9/11 hijackers were in the country legally as far as I'm aware, but it is just a perception thing, I guess...

Re: american illegal immigration.......

Its the soon to be biggest minority voting block in the country flexing its muscle better start learning some Spanish. There has been what could be loosely deemed student protests around Vegas in regards to this issue, it be would interesting to see how eager these students who are non citizens would be to earn their citizenship by pulling a stint in Iraq.

[QUOTE]Today's pig is tommorrow's bacon[/QUOTE]-- Hunter S. Thompson

Re: american illegal immigration.......

It's certainly a very touchy subject IMO.

I agree on the point that you should enter the US the legal way, and pay your way etc. If you can't do that then tough, life's a bitch sometimes.

I think the UK will have a huge problem soon with the amount of immigrants we are letting in. My hometown has been taken over by Albanians, Polish and Kosovans. Sure, they do the menial tasks that UK citizens don't want to do, but since they have been here crime has shot up (and I mean murder not just minor crimes)and so has unemployment

Re: american illegal immigration.......

Uncontrolled immgration is asking for trouble.

The UK is in seroius trouble not only from Ileagals but also from former USSR states that have joined the EU, they are leagal immigrants who can work and live in the UK as they have an EU passport.

I have seen the same as Greg, even in small market towns there are sizable populations of Poles, Latvians etc.

Fair enough some do work but most just expolit the loopholes in our benfit system, they get paid more in handouts than i earn, and i earn more than the national average wage.

I've paid tax all my working life and never claimed a penny, yet ppl who have never paid a penny in tax arrive off the boat and 10min later they are loaded with a nice flat and benfits.

Re: american illegal immigration.......

This whole "entitlement" thing that all the illegals keep touting disgusts me. Also, these putzes walking out of schools around here to protest and holding up [B]Mexican[/B] flags gets just a little under my skin. You're not in Mexico. Stop thinking that you are.

The Great American Past Time is whining, and they've certainly assimilated enough to perfect that.

Re: american illegal immigration.......

We're all immigrants. Cheaper wages for immigrants means cheaper prices to purchase shit. People need reasons why our country is going to shit and they pick immigration or "illegal aliens" instead of blaming who is really to blame. Our government, cough "Bush and Cheney" wasting money on things we don't need like war instead of a more stable nation and better technology.

Re: american illegal immigration.......

[quote=srbbnd]We're all immigrants. Cheaper wages for immigrants means cheaper prices to purchase shit. People need reasons why our country is going to shit and they pick immigration or "illegal aliens" instead of blaming who is really to blame. Our government, cough "Bush and Cheney" wasting money on things we don't need like war instead of a more stable nation and better technology.[/quote] you said it all. :Cheerz:

Re: american illegal immigration.......

[QUOTE=srbbnd]Cheaper wages for immigrants means cheaper prices to purchase shit. [/QUOTE]

Does it? How do you know the savings in wages are passed on to consumers? Those savings could just as easily be passed directly into the pocket of the employer.

Cheaper prices are great, I love them. The problem with what you're suggesting, however, is that the cheaper prices, if they exist at all, come at the expense of decreasing wages and increased unemployment or underemployment. Decreasing prices + decreasing wages + increased unemployment = not a very rosy economic picture, imo.

Re: american illegal immigration.......

Alright I have no actual evidence and I'm just spouting shit out, however, immigration has been going on for many centuries and has made America the super power it is.

Re: american illegal immigration.......

One interesting point I've heard is that Mexico certainly isn't stopping its people from coming to America. It makes me think that the Mexican government encourages the less skilled out of their country. Then when the illegals are in America, they'll send that money back to Mexico where their families live. Which is great for Mexico.

The business owners that hire the illegals are also doing well because they'd rather hire illegals for less wages and no benefits then hire an American. In this situation, Americans can't compete for those jobs that supposedly only illegals do.

Re: american illegal immigration.......

[quote=Balanc3]Correction... Texas is not the second most populous state in the U.S.

1. California
2. New York
3. Florida

and soon, Florida will be passing New York for the #2 spot. Amazing growth we having been seeing in this state as birds continue to migrate south.[/quote]

Show me a link or source where you see Texas isn't the 2nd most populated state? I Googled this and each place I went to had TX 2nd, NY 3rd, and FL 4th.

Re: american illegal immigration.......

[RIGHT][RIGHT][FONT=Tahoma] [/FONT][/RIGHT][/RIGHT] [FONT=Tahoma] [/FONT][FONT=Tahoma]Our nation shelters the lives of over 12 million illegal immigrants who found a way to smuggle themselves into our country.[URL="http://www.mercuryserver.com/forums/#_edn1"][FONT=Tahoma][i][/FONT][/URL] Either by themselves, or with the help of ?people smugglers,? 12 million illegal immigrants discovered an easy way around the system of Visas and legal immigration. Those who apply for legal visas are forced to wait while half a million illegal immigrants continue to cross into American soil each year. Illegal Immigration is unfair, unlawful, and undervalues the principles and ideals of American citizenship. The US government needs to take harsher action against Illegal Immigration because it ridicules legal immigrants, contributes to serious crimes, and costs taxpayers money by allowing them to stay.[/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma] Many legal immigrants and illegal immigrants share similar backgrounds regarding poor families and oppressed governments. There are millions of legal immigrant families from countries such as China, who hail from a communist controlled government and a poor family. Those who are granted visas come to this country and usually work for a decent education. Over years of hard work and education, one finds a decent-paying salary, the capacity to support the rest of the family, and a decent community to live in. They pay income, mortgage, social security, Federal, State and other taxes like any legal American should. With the mass influx of foreign immigration and immigration quotas in place, obtaining a Visa is one of the hardest tasks to come by. Yet, numerous illegal citizens are paid in cash, and therefore never pay taxes of any sort. Those who obtain a fake Social Security card can pay taxes but receive a much larger tax refund due to their numerous dependants and income tax credits. American businesses hire millions of illegal immigrants at wages below the legal amount. [URL="http://www.mercuryserver.com/forums/#_edn2"][FONT=Tahoma][ii][/FONT][/URL] [/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma] Currently, United States Legislation forbids any form of illegal immigration but has very loose control over it. President George W. Bush proposes a large push for tighter border security, which is foolish, because it can never fully prevent illegal immigration. [URL="http://www.mercuryserver.com/forums/#_edn3"][FONT=Tahoma][iii][/FONT][/URL]Heavily relying on border security is unintelligent due to the extensive size of our borders and the inability to station enough trained personnel on guard. Whether by sea, land, or air, illegal immigrants can always find to smuggle their way onto our soil. Senators McCain and Kennedy are calling for 400,000 work visas that will last for three years. Illegal immigrants will have the opportunity to apply for citizenship, pay a two thousand dollar fine, pay back taxes, and undergo background checks. This method is also very shaky because only four hundred thousand out of twelve million immigrants can receive a visa. There is still an enormous amount of immigrants left undocumented, who prefer staying illegal and not paying taxes. [/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma] An area left ignored is the fact that business owners and farmers hire these immigrants but never report it to the government. Instead of heavily focusing on prevention, the government needs to hire inspectors to investigate the private businesses and individuals who are hiring illegal immigrants. Local police should also designate a squad or police force specially designed to fight illegal immigration. If any immigrant is found with an illicit ID or a lack of ID papers, the first move should be deportation. The government should not allow any illegal alien the rights of the justice system, should they be undocumented. Perhaps focusing on the root and heart of the problem will prove more effective than border control. The option of amnesty sends the wrong kind of image to immigrants that have worked hard to get here legally. It also presents a government that has loose control over its own policies and will encourage even more illegal immigration. [/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma] Illegal immigration causes another detriment to our society: crime. A high percentage of large gangs in the United States consist of many illegal immigrants. Poor, impoverished, and undereducated children take comfort in joining a gang and committing crimes such as drug trafficking, drive-by assassinations, extortion, and robbery.[URL="http://www.mercuryserver.com/forums/#_edn4"][FONT=Tahoma][iv][/FONT][/URL] In 2002, sixty percent of the twenty thousand members in the 18th Street Gang in Los Angeles were illegal immigrants. Communities that harbor and help illegal immigrants are havens for gang recruitment and crime. These areas are usually poor and have very high poverty rates. These kids do not receive a good education or do not take their studies very seriously. A high percentage of illegal immigrants live off welfare, or are serving time in the county jails. [URL="http://www.mercuryserver.com/forums/#_edn5"][FONT=Tahoma][v][/FONT][/URL] The government and the American taxpayers end up paying the prisoners to stay in jails. [/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma] In addition to the 18th street gang and many other crime gangs, the notorious MS-13 herds thousands of members into the United States each year. Many illegal immigrants do not come here with a primary intention of working. In the United States alone, it is estimated that there are currently around ten thousand members of MS-13. In Central America, where the gang is most heavily populated, there are an estimated fifty thousand members. Due to recent attention towards homeland security and the threat of terrorists, the MS-13 have proliferated and new immigrants are constantly joining the gang for security. To many immigrants, the gang provides shelter, aid, and protection. [/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma] Another major problem for the fight against illegal immigration is the weakness of the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency (ICE). Currently, the ICE lacks the work force, the resources, and the detention centers to house the millions of illegal immigrants. In theory, the ICE should deport each illegal immigrant in the United States. However, the process is long and tedious. The ICE will probably never have enough personnel to manage all the hearings and never enough space to detain immigrants awaiting their detention hearing. Only illegal immigrants who have committed a serious felony are first on the list. Normal laboring illegal immigrants are never considered for detention due to lack of ?importance.? [URL="http://www.mercuryserver.com/forums/#_edn6"][FONT=Tahoma][vi][/FONT][/URL] This US agency is in dire need of funding and resources. Funding the ICE would be a logical step towards the fight against illegal immigrants. [/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma] Our country needs to respond towards the problem of illegal immigration and use effective methods to combat it. Illegal immigration is directly related to poverty, crime, and additional costs to the US government. Allowing amnesties and loosening our immigration laws will simply convey the wrong message and encourage further illegal immigration. The government needs to target employers and fund the ICE to fight against this growing problem. [/FONT]

    [URL="http://www.mercuryserver.com/forums/#_ednref1"][FONT=&quot][i][/FONT][/URL] [url]www.washingtonpost.com[/url]

[URL="http://www.mercuryserver.com/forums/#_ednref2"][FONT=&quot][ii][/FONT][/URL] [url]http://www.theamericanresistance.com/articles/art2004jan04.html[/url]

[URL="http://www.mercuryserver.com/forums/#_ednref3"][FONT=&quot][iii][/FONT][/URL] [url]www.c-span.org[/url]

[URL="http://www.mercuryserver.com/forums/#_ednref4"][FONT=&quot][iv][/FONT][/URL] [url]www.wikipedia.org[/url]

[URL="http://www.mercuryserver.com/forums/#_ednref5"][FONT=&quot][v][/FONT][/URL] [url]http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/back704.html[/url]

[URL="http://www.mercuryserver.com/forums/#_ednref6"][FONT=&quot][vi][/FONT][/URL] [url]http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/back704.html[/url]

yea thats what i have to say

Re: american illegal immigration.......

^^elhadley, carriage return. carriage return, elhadley. Talk amongst yourselves...

Re: american illegal immigration.......

take em out in the streets and put a bullet in thier heads IMO. just shoot em. and yell around ""time to pay the man bitches"" he gonna get you down!! """