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A little perspective on Iran

47 durable postsStarted 2006-01-18Latest 2006-04-13
#22835Post 1 of 47

[url]www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1688777,00.html[/url]

[quote] The west has picked a fight with Iran that it cannot win

Washington's kneejerk belligerence ignores Tehran's influence and the need for subtle engagement

Simon Jenkins Wednesday January 18, 2006 The Guardian

Never pick a fight you know you cannot win. Or so I was told. Pick an argument if you must, but not a fight. Nothing I have read or heard in recent weeks suggests that fighting Iran over its nuclear enrichment programme makes any sense at all. The very talk of it - macho phrases about "all options open" - suggests an international community so crazed with video game enforcement as to have lost the power of coherent thought.

Iran is a serious country, not another two-bit post-imperial rogue waiting to be slapped about the head by a white man. It is the fourth largest oil producer in the world. Its population is heading towards 80 million by 2010. Its capital, Tehran, is a mighty metropolis half as big again as London. Its culture is ancient and its political life is, to put it mildly, fluid.

All the following statements about Iran are true. There are powerful Iranians who want to build a nuclear bomb. There are powerful ones who do not. There are people in Iran who would like Israel to disappear. There are people who would not. There are people who would like Islamist rule. There are people who would not. There are people who long for some idiot western politician to declare war on them. There are people appalled at the prospect. The only question for western strategists is which of these people they want to help.

Of all the treaties passed in my lifetime the 1968 nuclear non-proliferation treaty (NPT) always seemed the most implausible. It was an insiders' club that any outsider could defy with a modicum of guile. So it has proved. America, sitting armed to the teeth across Korea's demilitarised zone, has let North Korea become a nuclear power despite a 1994 promise that it would not. America supported Israel in going nuclear. Britain and America did not balk at India doing so, nor Pakistan when it not only built a bomb but deceitfully disseminated its technology in defiance of sanctions. Three flagrant dissenters from the NPT are thus regarded by America as friends.

I would sleep happier if there were no Iranian bomb but a swamp of hypocrisy separates me from overly protesting it. Iran is a proud country that sits between nuclear Pakistan and India to its east, a nuclear Russia to its north and a nuclear Israel to its west. Adjacent Afghanistan and Iraq are occupied at will by a nuclear America, which backed Saddam Hussein in his 1980 invasion of Iran. How can we say such a country has "no right" to nuclear defence?

None the less this month's reopening of the Natanz nuclear enrichment plant and two others, though purportedly for peaceful uses, was a clear act of defiance by Iran's new president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Inspectors from the UN's International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) remain unsure whether it implies a secret weapons programme but the evidence for this is far stronger than, for instance, against Saddam Hussein. To have infuriated the IAEA's Mohamed ElBaradei takes some doing. As Saddam found, deviousness in nuclear matters is bound to arouse suspicion. Either way, the reopening yielded a strong diplomatic coalition of Europe, America, Russia and China in pleading with Ahmadinejad to desist.

On Monday, Washington's kneejerk belligerence put this coalition under immediate strain. In two weeks the IAEA must decide whether to report Iran to the UN security council for possible sanctions. There seems little point in doing this if China and Russia vetoes it or if there is no plan B for what to do if such pressure fails to halt enrichment, which seems certain. A clear sign of western floundering are speeches and editorials concluding that Iran "should not take international concern lightly", the west should "be on its guard" and everyone "should think carefully". It means nobody has a clue.

I cannot see how all this confrontation will stop Iran doing whatever it likes with its nuclear enrichment, which is reportedly years away from producing weapons-grade material. The bombing of carefully dispersed and buried sites might delay deployment. But given the inaccuracy of American bombers, the death and destruction caused to Iran's cities would be a gift to anti-western extremists and have every world terrorist reporting for duty.

Nor would the "coward's war" of economic sanctions be any more effective. Refusing to play against Iranian footballers (hated by the clerics), boycotting artists, ostracising academics, embargoing commerce, freezing foreign bank accounts - so-called smart sanctions - are as counterproductive as could be imagined. Such feelgood gestures drive the enemies of an embattled regime into silence, poverty or exile. As Timothy Garton Ash wrote in these pages after a recent visit, western aggression "would drain overnight its still large reservoir of anti-regime, mildly pro-western sentiment".

By all accounts Ahmadinejad is not secure. He is subject to the supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. His foe, Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani, retains some power. Tehran is not a Saddamist dictatorship or a Taliban autocracy. It is a shambolic oligarchy with bureaucrats and technocrats jostling for power with clerics. Despite a quarter century of effort, the latter have not created a truly fundamentalist islamic state. Iran is a classic candidate for the politics of subtle engagement.

This means strengthening every argument in the hands of those Iranians who do not want nuclear weapons or Israel eliminated, who crave a secular state and good relations with the west. No such argument embraces name-calling, sabre-rattling, sanctions or bombs.

At this very moment, US officials in Baghdad are on their knees begging Iran-backed Shia politicians and militias to help them get out of Iraq. From Basra to the suburbs of Baghdad, Iranian influence is dominant. Iranian posters adorned last month's elections. Whatever Bush and Blair thought they were doing by invading Iraq, they must have known the chief beneficiary from toppling the Sunni ascendancy would be Shia Iran. They cannot now deny the logic of their own policy. Democracy itself is putting half Iraq in thrall to its powerful neighbour.

Iran is the regional superstate. If ever there were a realpolitik demanding to be "hugged close" it is this one, however distasteful its leader and his centrifuges. If you cannot stop a man buying a gun, the next best bet is to make him your friend, not your enemy. [/quote]

#545464Post 2 of 47

Re: A little perspective on Iran

two words

hiroshima

nagasaki

and i dont mean us doing it to them. more like Haifa and jerusalem.

#545605Post 3 of 47

Re: A little perspective on Iran

Another European columnist that attacks America, but offers no real solutions except "be their friend". Appeasing Hitler didn't work out too well for the Euroepans did it? The real issue is are they going to build a nuclear weapon or not. If they do, not only the U.S. has a problem with that, but the entire world does. This isn't a U.S. vs the world debate. This is up to Iran to decide.

As for the powerful Iranian army, if there is a war, most likely, it won't be just America attacking them either.

#546406Post 4 of 47

Re: A little perspective on Iran

simon jenkins has proved to be an excellent signing by the guardian from the times.

an excellent article.

#546459Post 5 of 47

Re: A little perspective on Iran

Dave, what do you think would happen if Iran were attacked. Would the rest of the Middle East sit back and watch?

#546572Post 6 of 47

Re: A little perspective on Iran

nop.. it would get really bad and the saudi's would probably step in.. but the bottom line is that we as people have to leave religion out of it in order for us as humans to develop..religion holds us back from becoming better people.

#549469Post 7 of 47

Re: A little perspective on Iran

You know, it's rare that you can get the US, China, Russia and the EU to all agree that another country is doing something wrong. Looks like this Iran thing could be a real issue.

Thankfully, we've conserved all of our military resources and are ready to go in the event that action needs to be taken. It would be a shame if we had tied up our troops in some boondoggle or something.

:roll:

As I've always maintained, my biggest problem with the whole Iraq thing was the timing. We didn't finish the job in Afghanistan before we went into Iraq, and now our military is spread too thin when we really need them. Even if you agree with everything Bush has done conceptually, I have a hard time understanding how people can really be cheerleaders for the job he's doing from a military standpoint. Whether it's incompetence, short-sightedness, or something else, our current situation is fucking embarrassing.

#549537Post 8 of 47

Re: A little perspective on Iran

[quote=toasty]Thankfully, we've conserved all of our military resources and are ready to go in the event that action needs to be taken. It would be a shame if we had tied up our troops in some boondoggle or something.[/quote]

:CrackUp::CrackUp::CrackUp::CrackUp::CrackUp:

#549693Post 9 of 47

Re: A little perspective on Iran

[QUOTE=runningman]nop.. it would get really bad and the saudi's would probably step in.. but the bottom line is that we as people have to leave religion out of it in order for us as humans to develop..religion holds us back from becoming better people.[/QUOTE]

Now with [I]that[/I] I fucking 1000% agree Runningman.

#549774Post 10 of 47

Re: A little perspective on Iran

[quote=Yao]Dave, what do you think would happen if Iran were attacked. Would the rest of the Middle East sit back and watch?[/quote]

Yes, I don't think anyone would join Iran in fighting the members of the UN Security council. Saudis and Pakistan are too close of allies with America and Europe to defend Iran. Sure, Syria and the Palestenians would condemn attacks on Iran, but I don't see them as credible threats.

#549787Post 11 of 47

Re: A little perspective on Iran

[quote=runningman]but the bottom line is that we as people have to leave religion out of it in order for us as humans to develop..religion holds us back from becoming better people.[/quote]

[quote=yao]Now with [I]that[/I] I fucking 1000% agree Runningman.[/quote]

Here, here -- Dogma is the downfall of reason.

The rules of a 2000 year old superstition should not dictate the actions of the modern mind.

[I]Should[/I] being the operative word, of course - although it becomes more and more apparent that the majority would rather live their life by an ancient text, rather than personal experience.

Ahh well, there's always the next life...

#549860Post 12 of 47

Re: A little perspective on Iran

[QUOTE=superdave]Yes, I don't think anyone would join Iran in fighting the members of the UN Security council. Saudis and Pakistan are too close of allies with America and Europe to defend Iran. Sure, Syria and the Palestenians would condemn attacks on Iran, but I don't see them as credible threats.[/QUOTE]

Those latter two countries i will agree on, but with Saudi Arabia in control over much of the oil reserves...and don't forget that in S-A and Iran we have a Shi'ite majority: i'm afriad they will come to the aid of their brethren, despite the consequences that might have.

Pakistan...unsure. It is predominantly Muslim, and has nukes. I really have no clue as to where they stand, although they do have stronger bonds with the UN than S-A.

#560512Post 13 of 47

Re: A little perspective on Iran

Iran and Syria here we come.. The USA is blaming Iran and Syria for all the violence across the muslim world.. Bye Syria..

#560530Post 14 of 47

Re: A little perspective on Iran

[quote=BSully828]The rules of a 2000 year old superstition should not dictate the actions of the modern mind.[/quote] That's it, right there :Bingo:

And what is this all about?? :roll:

So why are we able to see that religion is bullshit, and they cannot?? I was raised in a strict Catholic environment, which either made me rebel against religion at a young age or exposed me to its faults. Either way, my point is that I changed my way of thinking on my own...why can't they?? They are so content to let this ancient way of thinking rule their daily lives, without so much as a thought that it might be a little on the extremely fanatical side. So something comes out that offends this way of thinking that they so blindly follow and their way of dealing with it is to riot, fuck shit up and basically prove every preconceived notion and sterotype right.

Now, someone rationalize all of this to me and make me see how America's problems and faults, which all of the world will point out at any given chance, are somehow worse.

#560645Post 15 of 47

Re: A little perspective on Iran

[quote=evangelion] So why are we able to see that religion is bullshit, and they cannot?? I was raised in a strict Catholic environment, which either made me rebel against religion at a young age or exposed me to its faults. Either way, my point is that I changed my way of thinking on my own...why can't they?? They are so content to let this ancient way of thinking rule their daily lives, without so much as a thought that it might be a little on the extremely fanatical side. So something comes out that offends this way of thinking that they so blindly follow and their way of dealing with it is to riot, fuck shit up and basically prove every preconceived notion and sterotype right.[/quote]

Well, in strongly Islamic countries, Muslims are not surrounded by free thinkers who are constantly questioning religion like we are here in the US, Europe, etc. Since there is little plurality of religion in these countries (or if there is, it doesn't matter because the government is religiously controlled), alternatives are non-existent. The encouragement to make up one's own mind is a feature of western society (rugged individualism), not all societies, especially not religious ones where people are systematically kept in the dark to be controlled.

Iran is different from the other Islamic states. We may now make a very loose comparison between Bush and Ahmadinejad: both are leaders of strong countries where large portions of the populace does not support their politics. So, we cannot believe that Iran=Ahmadinejad, or else we believe that the US=Bush. Since we don't believe that, we can't approach the situation by saying, "let's bomb 'em". We have to find a way to topple Ahmadinejad/Islamic rule to allow the reasonable people to surface.

Yes, a nuclear Iran is scary. I don't agree with his argument that, since Iran lies between Pakistan, Russia, and Israel, it is justified in building nuclear weapons. But we are beyond justification at this point; whoever can build them will. What are we going to do about it? Million to one: nothing. Sanctions don't count. Military action will certainly not take place, at least not until Iran make overtures of an invasion or attack.

It is not appeasment to appeal to Iran's pro-western element. We certainly don't want to appease Ahmadinejad, but we should try to do what we can with the people in Iran who want a secular democratic government before marching off to war. Sort of a reverse Iran contra, if you will.

#560813Post 16 of 47

Re: A little perspective on Iran

[quote=sammwalk]Well, in strongly Islamic countries, Muslims are not surrounded by free thinkers who are constantly questioning religion like we are here in the US, Europe, etc. Since there is little plurality of religion in these countries (or if there is, it doesn't matter because the government is religiously controlled), alternatives are non-existent. The encouragement to make up one's own mind is a feature of western society (rugged individualism), not all societies, especially not religious ones where people are systematically kept in the dark to be controlled.[/quote]

Good points. I just find it hard to believe that in an entire region of the world, that there is not at least a small group of people who are sick of blindly following this way of life. Someone draws a cartoon of their "prophet" and the way to deal with it is to riot and kill people?? Is there even any thought involved in that reaction?? No. Just a bunch of sheep gladly eating what's been shovled to them.

War detractors will say the same thing about Americans and the war propaganda that we have all suposedly been "brainwashed" by, but I don't see Americans rioting and killing each other over things like that "how to be a suicide bomber" cartoon in that other thread.

#561267Post 17 of 47

Re: A little perspective on Iran

[quote=evangelion]Good points. I just find it hard to believe that in an entire region of the world, that there is not at least a small group of people who are sick of blindly following this way of life. Someone draws a cartoon of their "prophet" and the way to deal with it is to riot and kill people?? Is there even any thought involved in that reaction?? No.[/quote]

As I understand it, it is only small groups of people causing violent protests. In addition, there are those protesting non-violently, and their numbers are far greater.

Remember also that some of the deaths resulted from the Afghan police trying to contain the violence.

It's an incredibly immature conflict. The most embarassing thing for me to witness is the so called "answer" by Ahmadinejad and others...not anti-Danish cartoons, but anti-Israel. How original, you hate Israel and the US. Give me a break. These protesters strike me as a children throwing temper tantrums, angry at everything, everyone. Take it out on us, because it's our fault. Good logic, morons.

[quote=evangelion]Just a bunch of sheep gladly eating what's been shovled to them.[/quote]

We are the same, only we eat from a bigger shovel. Our opinion is shaped by our news media, who can be said only to be deceiving us (intentionally or not) to a lesser degree. Tough to form an educated viewpoint when unbiased and reliable information is difficult to obtain or verify.

I think we are actually witnessing the decline of our nation as a superpower. Chickens have come home to roost.

#561271Post 18 of 47

Re: A little perspective on Iran

[quote=sammwalk]How original, you hate Israel and the US. Give me a break. These protesters strike me as a children throwing temper tantrums, angry at everything, everyone. [B]Take it out on us, because it's our fault.[/B] Good logic, morons.[/quote]

Isn't everything :roll:

[quote=sammwalk]I think we are actually witnessing the decline of our nation as a superpower.[/quote]

Good god, I hope not. :what What's next after that??

#561581Post 19 of 47

Re: A little perspective on Iran

maybe those words are a little too strong...still, we aren't who we used to be, that's for sure. lost our balls, we did. happens when we can't firmly delineate the enemy, because too many people sympathetic to the enemy are part of the political process. and by sympathetic I mean merely the same race, religion, etc. too many people afraid of demonizing muslims. I'm not saying this is a healthy attitude, but the country needs to be solid if we're to end islamic terrorism. too many people in this country move here, call themselves American, but still have loyalties to their motherland. I think that has to stop. you live here now, act like it. support American interests abroad, not your motherlands'.

and certainly don't take me to be supporting Bush on this...I think he's incompetent. maybe they want to do the right thing; they just don't have the brains to pull it off.

look, no offense everyone, but terrorism isn't going to stop until not just fundy but even moderate muslims are out of power in the ME. gotta break the cycle.

of course, gettting off oil would certainly help. but then there's Israel, so, in fact, it wouldn't, when you really think about it. US support of Israel is the real problem, not oil. and that's not going to change, nor am I arguing that it should. but somethings gotta give.

somethings going to give.

#566645Post 20 of 47

Re: A little perspective on Iran

And here is a little more perspective as to why we (the US) might be up in arms about Iran besides the nuclear issue. Interesting read.

[url]http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=48652[/url]

#566670Post 21 of 47

Re: A little perspective on Iran

ill put some perpsective on this.

the leader is a former hostage taker. now he runs a country, is silently making nukes while telling the world he isnt, is saying he is only going for power, but yet, for some reason is hiding it from everyone, has openly called to arms an entire religion to destroy another, and called for the destruction of a few countries, and has already accomplished what took saddam 15 years to do. he has kicked out foreign media outlets, nationalized his own, re-implemented the laws against women, homosexuals, and does this all why saying ""try to stop me, and ill show you how violent my people can be""

yeah, that is some perspective.

#568162Post 22 of 47

Re: A little perspective on Iran

Yeah, and we're in Iraq dicking around when this guy is making much bigger threats and Saddam has been captured [I]years[/I] ago. Next stop, Iran. :roll:

#568532Post 23 of 47

Re: A little perspective on Iran

[quote=sammwalk]look, no offense everyone, but terrorism isn't going to stop until not just fundy but even moderate muslims are out of power in the ME. gotta break the cycle.[/quote]

Let me get this straight. Israel can have a Jewish leader, US can have a Christian leader but a Muslim country can't have a Muslim leader?

Is this what you're saying.

#568536Post 24 of 47

Re: A little perspective on Iran

[quote=thesightless]ill put some perpsective on this.

the leader is a former hostage taker. now he runs a country, is silently making nukes while telling the world he isnt, is saying he is only going for power, but yet, for some reason is hiding it from everyone, has openly called to arms an entire religion to destroy another, and called for the destruction of a few countries, and has already accomplished what took saddam 15 years to do. he has kicked out foreign media outlets, nationalized his own, re-implemented the laws against women, homosexuals, and does this all why saying ""try to stop me, and ill show you how violent my people can be""

yeah, that is some perspective.[/quote]

Pretty big statements to make don't you think?

Former hostage taker? Has this been proven?

Silently making nukes? Has this also been proven?

#568584Post 25 of 47

Re: A little perspective on Iran

yes.. to all

#568661Post 26 of 47

Re: A little perspective on Iran

My opinion - big bomb to Iran if they will not agree with russian offer but who will do it?

#568732Post 27 of 47

Re: A little perspective on Iran

[quote=dig72]Pretty big statements to make don't you think?

Former hostage taker? Has this been proven?

Silently making nukes? Has this also been proven?[/quote]

well with your thinking, we wont know until he uses the nukes, and regarding the hostage taking, there are pics that damn well show its him, he denies it, every hostage says its him. he was one of the embassy attackers.

so until something blows up, we just have to wait to see what they were doing>? why isnt he allowing the IAEA to inspect and monitor?

#568740Post 28 of 47

Re: A little perspective on Iran

[URL="http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/06/30/iran.president/"]http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/06/30/iran.president/[/URL]

#569367Post 29 of 47

Re: A little perspective on Iran

Come on guys, here is nothing to discuss

This is the only one solution of "iran's problem"[IMG]http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/icbm/Slide30.JPG[/IMG]

#569374Post 30 of 47

Re: A little perspective on Iran

That's a pretty cool picture! It's also a very bad idea regarding Iran. I hear this alot, "Military strikes on Iran!!!" Come on people, bombing is not a serious option. At best a strike would set Iran back a bit, but it would also inflame public opinion there and unify the nation against the west and only add to their determination to go nuclear. Iran has 3 times the population of Iraq, and they're much more a proud country than Iraq. Iran could retaliate easily, especially with all those troops right next door sitting in Iraq. And then where are we? in a lot worse situation than we've got now.

#569401Post 31 of 47

Re: A little perspective on Iran

just level the whole region. mass genocide, make it epic. carpet bomb and bunker buster every square inch from the meditteranean ((sp)) to india. use nukes if ya have to. just kill em all and end the problems between societies. do it for the history books. we could have rape squads going around and molesting people in the streets. after letting all the american criminals loose in the country with blades and hooks and a free pass we could hang the dead off bridges by thier feet and put cruxifixes on thier bodies to dishonor them. then we could hire some rednecks to write mohammed sucks the dick in crop circles throughout the region. then we could use subliminal messaging on the youth and turn them all into buddist monks and have them fight in martial arts tourneys. the young females would provide maids to most of the world.

just an idea.

#569651Post 32 of 47

Re: A little perspective on Iran

[quote=Jenks]That's a pretty cool picture! It's also a very bad idea regarding Iran. I hear this alot, "Military strikes on Iran!!!" Come on people, bombing is not a serious option. At best a strike would set Iran back a bit, but it would also inflame public opinion there and unify the nation against the west and only add to their determination to go nuclear. Iran has 3 times the population of Iraq, and they're much more a proud country than Iraq. Iran could retaliate easily, especially with all those troops right next door sitting in Iraq. And then where are we? in a lot worse situation than we've got now.[/quote]

At least some objects have to be destroyed. But it could be a problem the next day, half of Iran will be in Iraq for sure

#569665Post 33 of 47

Re: A little perspective on Iran

[quote=thesightless][quote=dig72]Pretty big statements to make don't you think?

Former hostage taker? Has this been proven?

Silently making nukes? Has this also been proven?[/quote] well with your thinking, we wont know until he uses the nukes, and regarding the hostage taking, there are pics that damn well show its him, he denies it, every hostage says its him. he was one of the embassy attackers.

so until something blows up, we just have to wait to see what they were doing>? why isnt he allowing the IAEA to inspect and monitor?[/quote]

Exactly!!! I get so sick of this "Where's your proof??" or "Has that ever been proven??" So unwilling to call a spade a spade, it is ridiculous. :roll:

#601373Post 34 of 47

Re: A little perspective on Iran

[quote=evangelion]Exactly!!! I get so sick of this "Where's your proof??" or "Has that ever been proven??" So unwilling to call a spade a spade, it is ridiculous. :roll:[/quote]

So asking for proof/evidence is a bad thing these days, is it?

(sorry for late response)

#603751Post 35 of 47

Re: A little perspective on Iran

I totally agree that US != Bush .. I know that most of american people are against his policy and it's not their guilt except for they were responsible to bring him to the whitehouse for 8 years ... but for Iran I agree that Iran=Ahmednejad .. and that's because he was facing Rafsengany in the election and the last was supposed to me more popular but Nejad is really surrounded by most of Irani people specially the poor people, also he is against US and Israel, all people there are like him and that's why they all support him ... more to say that Iran is not Iraq, meaning it's not that easy for US to strike Iran because :

  1. Iran is a very strong country and has powerful army, so the US can't enter a direct war in the Irani lands

  2. US can't even do any air or missle strikes cause the Irani nucleur places are all very heavy guarded besides they are located deep in the underground

  3. Even if they did any air strike, Iran has a very strong and powerful weapons and missles and most important they have all the american troops and bases in Iraq and arabian gulf just some miles away so these locations will be a very seductive targets

  4. Iran also has plenty of different missles with different ranges, most of them can easily reach Tel Aviv

#603832Post 36 of 47

Re: A little perspective on Iran

[quote=Commissar] 4) Iran also has plenty of different missles with different ranges, most of them can easily reach Tel Aviv[/quote] And Israel has a FAR superior armed forces and FAR superior weapons, and I'm sure the Iranians know that.

The fanatic posing as President realises only too well what Israel is capable of, this is why the lunatic is just postering to the masses, he's unable to actually deliver any of his veiled threats.

But I say to him, and all other fanatics who think they can threaten my country, BRING IT ON SUCKERS.

#606941Post 37 of 47

Re: A little perspective on Iran

Israel is the storngest country in the world not only the middle east! .. only to mention Israel have more than 200 nucleur bomb .. but if Israel do any air strike against Iran, Iran will respond with balestic missles then Israel will respond and so on .. destruction all over !!

#606998Post 38 of 47

Re: A little perspective on Iran

[quote=Commissar]Israel is the storngest country in the world not only the middle east! .. only to mention Israel have more than 200 nucleur bomb .. but if Israel do any air strike against Iran, Iran will respond with balestic missles then Israel will respond and so on .. destruction all over !![/quote] Whilst neither denying nor confirming the extent of my countrys nuclear arsnel, i say this:

If Israel was going to use nuclear weapons, then we would have used them in 73 when see was attacked from all sides on the holiest day of our year. Since then our army has modernised and become one of the most well equipped armies on this planet. The technology open to us today is far superior to nuclear weapons and we have ways of neutralising threats without resorting to weapons that will kill our own citizens.

The difference between Israel having nuclear weapons and Iran is that Israel is not stupid enough to use them - she cares more about her citizens then the current fanatic in Tehran.

#607569Post 39 of 47

Re: A little perspective on Iran

well since you guys both believe that Iran and Isreal have nuclear weapons. i say you guys both go at it..i dont see why we Americans have to do that dirty job. i call both of the nations bluffs. neither of you guys have nukes. and if Isreal needs back up then we'll be there. :lol:

#608622Post 40 of 47

Re: A little perspective on Iran

[quote=PROG]well since you guys both believe that Iran and Isreal have nuclear weapons. i say you guys both go at it..i dont see why we Americans have to do that dirty job. i call both of the nations bluffs. neither of you guys have nukes. and if Isreal needs back up then we'll be there. :lol:[/quote]

Got anything to back that statement up or are you just confusing opinions with slogans again? Since you seem to get all your knowledge from Fox News or whatever ur watching on the telly, I suggest you rent The Sum of All Fears. That should be enlightning cuz I guess this article from the FAS on the subject contains too many long words for you: [url]http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/israel/nuke/index.html[/url]

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