what are everyones thoughts on this?

I think its only a matter of time (15-20 years) before china will match the u.s.a. in international clout and superpower status. It seems everyone in america wants to be ignorant of the facts in order to keep their mind of the inevitable that china is on the rise and the u.s.a. is on the fall. China has massive problems to overcome no doubt, but these problems come with the immense growth china is experiencing.

Re: China, the worlds next superpower???

I think your assesment of 15-20 years is wrong. . . . more like 5-10!

Re: China, the worlds next superpower???

they are coming around but imo. it's all a disaster waiting to happen. a combination of problems will lead to a huge crash. the economy has grown too big too fast and can not continue to grow at this rate. there has been little to no national planning on how to deal with growth over time. the water is going bad throughout most of that area of asia. (don't get me started on clean water, it will be the cause of WWIII). a population of only males? and some of the worlds worst health care. i also feel that the people of china will revolt once things start to fall apart much like the former soviet union. they are just starting to realize how world economics can play a part. the only thing they have going for them is they are borrowing a lot o money to the states and will have us in their pocket if we are not carefull as our currency goes to shit.

Re: China, the worlds next superpower???

ya right the USA will put tariffs on everything before that happened..

Re: China, the worlds next superpower???

If America keeps getting presidents like Bush, who spend trillions of dollars on overseas wars while running the country into the ground, being more concerned by gay marriage and tax cuts than the environment and jobs, I can't see how the US will keep it's "super-power" tag much longer.

Hopefully the US people will realise they're being run by a bunch of complete morons and will promptly choose someone who actually gives a shit about them.

Re: China, the worlds next superpower???

Good question, but when that's been asked for a long time. They have a lot of environmental and working condition concerns right now. Plus, Communism didn't work to well for the Soviet Union.

Re: China, the worlds next superpower???

[quote=delirious]If America keeps getting presidents like Bush, who spend trillions of dollars on overseas wars while running the country into the ground, being more concerned by gay marriage and tax cuts than the environment and jobs, I can't see how the US will keep it's "super-power" tag much longer.

Hopefully the US people will realise they're being run by a bunch of complete morons and will promptly choose someone who actually gives a shit about them.[/quote]

[COLOR=black][COLOR=silver]Seriously man - take a deep breath, relax, move a few steps back from this incredibly blind hatred for all things GW.[/COLOR][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][COLOR=silver]Running the country into the ground? More concerned with gay marriage then jobs? C'mon delirious - I can tell from the majority of your other posts here than you?re a pretty intelligent guy, just try to take an objective look at things once in a while. How can you have such unmitigated hatred and distrust for something when you have never even [I][FONT=Arial]tried[/FONT][/I] to see the other side of the coin?[/COLOR][/COLOR]

Re: China, the worlds next superpower???

[quote=BSully828][COLOR=black][COLOR=silver]Seriously man - take a deep breath, relax, move a few steps back from this incredibly blind hatred for all things GW.[/COLOR][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][COLOR=silver]Running the country into the ground? More concerned with gay marriage then jobs? C'mon delirious - I can tell from the majority of your other posts here than you?re a pretty intelligent guy, just try to take an objective look at things once in a while. How can you have such unmitigated hatred and distrust for something when you have never even [I][FONT=Arial]tried[/FONT][/I] to see the other side of the coin?[/COLOR][/COLOR][/quote]

this is true, but bush is a dumbass and is fucking things up. The ramifications of bush's policies will be felt for awhile. He is basically bankrupting the country for short term gain.

Re: China, the worlds next superpower???

China's growth is being finaced mainly by the US. The tipping point is approaching where the tables are going to switch and China would be the owners of the Intellectual and Financial Capabilities that the US have tought them during that last decade.

Technology have destroyed all kind of Information Hierarchies, and the people of china have access to a lot information that the Government cannot protect, they are aware of the corruption and the disparities between social classes and it would be intresting how the political turnmoil is going to unfold.

The truth is that Chinnesse and Indians are getting smarter and better prepared that our Americans Citizens, technology have flatten the Business infrestracture and the Superpowers are going to be measured by the amount of knowledge workers. American's learn some physics and programming ( not while bush is in office ) if you want to compete at a worldscale marketplace.

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[quote=runningman]ya right the USA will put tariffs on everything before that happened..[/quote]

Do you have any idea how much of our debt China currently has? At this point were pretty much China's bitches.

Re: China, the worlds next superpower???

[quote=anonin]this is true, but bush is a dumbass and is fucking things up. The ramifications of bush's policies will be felt for awhile. He is basically bankrupting the country for short term gain.[/quote]

No disrespect Anonin, but please explain. Are you talking economically? Socially? Politcally? Throw some information out. Back your statement up with evidence. Present some supporting facts to your claim.

If you want to just make some blind, blanket statements about how the current administration sucks - hey, knock yourself out. But if want to engage in some discussion about your opinion, then layer your statement with some evidence. Present your opinion along side some supporting reasoning.

Its one thing to say "Bush sucks" but its another to say "Bush Sucks, and here's why...", and there are pleanty of reasons, I'll be the first to admit.

So how is he fucking things up? What should/would you be doing differently in his place?

Why has Bush bankrupt the country for the short term gain? What is the quick fix?

Re: China, the worlds next superpower???

[quote=BSully828]No disrespect Anonin, but please explain. Are you talking economically? Socially? Politcally? Throw some information out. Back your statement up with evidence. Present some supporting facts to your claim.

If you want to just make some blind, blanket statements about how the current administration sucks - hey, knock yourself out. But if want to engage in some discussion about your opinion, then layer your statement with some evidence. Present your opinion along side some supporting reasoning.

Its one thing to say "Bush sucks" but its another to say "Bush Sucks, and here's why...", and there are pleanty of reasons, I'll be the first to admit.

So how is he fucking things up? What should/would you be doing differently in his place?

Why has Bush bankrupt the country for the short term gain? What is the quick fix?[/quote]

I hear ya, i didnt give much support to my claim ill admit. Let me expound a bit...

The united states is now officially a corporate ran government, bush is basically the spokesperson for these corporations. He's hardly even classified as a republican anymore due to his outrageous policies, i.e. fiscal responisbility (deficit, spending, etc.). The thing with bush is his foreign policy with china is lame, selling weapons to taiwan while supporting a one china policy is fucking stupid. China will call the u.s. out on that in due time tho. Bush also isnt taking any active steps toward reducing the massive trade deficit with china, when you see his speaches on the news hes always stuttering and genarally looking like a fuckup who shouldnt have been president in the first place. He's basically a joke, with a bunch of joke advisors, hence his joke policies. Bush hardly recognizes the threat to the u.s. that china poses, when in fact it should be a bit more urgent than he makes it out be, thats the main problem with america, lack of preparedness. I said in my first post people want to go on being ignorant of the facts, and this mostly includes the president and his administration.

Re: China, the worlds next superpower???

Economic superpower - both China and India will be. Anything more? Nope. They lack the infrastructure to adequately self-govern themselves. India and China will be nothing more than the slaves of capitalist America.

Re: China, the worlds next superpower???

I think you're wrong here Localizer...India is lagging behind a bit on China, but they both have the capabilities to grow to the superpower status. The fact that things aren't as tightly organized as in the US will not hold them back and should rather be a reason for concern: in China the govt is pretty tightly in control, and all the issues you named are being dealt with in an unbelieveable pace. India however is different, there's more social unrest there and groups that are fanatically opposed. You also still have a fundamentalist Hinduïst government (Bharatya Janata Party) in office as far as I know, and given the large group of Muslims in India this will certainly lead to problems. It aready has, in fact.

A politically and socially unstable superpower could become the world's biggest nightmare, along with a rogue superpower (which the US has been moving towards under Bush's leadership). China is stable, Russia is a problem (no power but very powerful weapons in bad shape), India is so far not a problem but might become one (especially if things with their smaller nuclear power neighbour Pakistan get out of hand), Europe is -as always- in the middle, and the US is starting little fires all over the place right now.

The next 25 years will be very exciting methinks :D

Re: China, the worlds next superpower???

[QUOTE=superdave]Good question, but when that's been asked for a long time. They have a lot of environmental and working condition concerns right now. Plus, Communism didn't work to well for the Soviet Union.[/QUOTE]

The difference between the USSR and China is that the Chinese govt is dedicated to economical growth, something the USSR govt only pretended to be while sucking the population dry. China has also partly moved itself into the capitalist arena, though be it a form of state capitalism.

Re: China, the worlds next superpower???

[quote=Yao]I think you're wrong here Localizer...India is lagging behind a bit on China, but they both have the capabilities to grow to the superpower status. The fact that things aren't as tightly organized as in the US will not hold them back and should rather be a reason for concern: in China the govt is pretty tightly in control, and all the issues you named are being dealt with in an unbelieveable pace. India however is different, there's more social unrest there and groups that are fanatically opposed. You also still have a fundamentalist Hindu?st government (Bharatya Janata Party) in office as far as I know, and given the large group of Muslims in India this will certainly lead to problems. It aready has, in fact.

A politically and socially unstable superpower could become the world's biggest nightmare, along with a rogue superpower (which the US has been moving towards under Bush's leadership). China is stable, Russia is a problem (no power but very powerful weapons in bad shape), India is so far not a problem but might become one (especially if things with their smaller nuclear power neighbour Pakistan get out of hand), Europe is -as always- in the middle, and the US is starting little fires all over the place right now.

The next 25 years will be very exciting methinks :D[/quote]

Currently India is running under a Sikh president and party. China's government doesn't really have strict control at all. Just take a look at the coal mine disasters they constantly have. Hundreds will die in a coal mine incident and occasionally, as happened a few months ago, a large explosion will occur which killed several thousand Uncontrolled illegal mining is rampid all over China and is causing huge problems for the government. They have telecommunications/power issues especially in Shanghai because there is no where to build lines. They're constantly having issues with health epidemics which are not easily controlled. What it comes down to is that the people just don't care about their country in terms of bettermint.

Re: China, the worlds next superpower???

Yep, although the Chinese govt is in control of that what it needs to be in control of to push forward it's policy...the economy is mostly concentrating in the urban centres while the rural areas are for a large part left to themselves (which makes all that illegal minig possible). I believe the Chinese govt has been busy to epand it's sphere of influence though, trying to impose more reform plans which have caused some major riots last year in several communities. They even used the army to beat them down.

And like i said: China isn't a really communist country anymore, it's State-Capitalism (much like some South American countries used to have).

Re: China, the worlds next superpower???

China is not even close to stable for whoever said that. Any Communist regime is not stable. The masses will revolt.

Oh ya and one more thing the USA NEVER LOSES!! If they could take on the Soviet Union then the Chinese should be a piece of cake. More people in a small area is an advantage for the USA. That's why the Soviets were so tough. Too Big of a country. But then it was over for the Soviets.

Re: China, the worlds next superpower???

[quote=runningman]China is not even close to stable for whoever said that. Any Communist regime is not stable. The masses will revolt.

Oh ya and one more thing the USA NEVER LOSES!! If they could take on the Soviet Union then the Chinese should be a piece of cake. More people in a small area is an advantage for the USA. That's why the Soviets were so tough. Too Big of a country. But then it was over for the Soviets.[/quote]

eh? The Cold War was a communicational war. Blank threats were initiated and armaments moved out, but nothing happened. It was a war of who could bluff the other first. China's military strength is substantial. They have a large infantry that could decimate US ground infantry. They also use American type technology and are up to par with training and weapons. If China were ever to go to war with the states, the US would lose unless nuclear weapons were used. It would be a caustic blow to the US empire.

Re: China, the worlds next superpower???

no sorry to tell you but your wrong.. Blank Threats? The USSR had more weapons then USA. Have a little more faith in your country sir. The USA also has the largest biologiacal weapons stash in the world. Oh ya and chemical. Oh ya and nuclear. So ya i guess if they were going to fight with swords then China would win. But soon (very soon) wars won't involve people it will be a lot of machinery (robots) doing the fighting for us. In 3 years from now the USA will have a tank and missile set up that can reload the tank and big guns robotically. Now you see why video games are such a major role in the USA. They are breeding 21st century fighters.

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I agree with your statement to a sense. They need to open there borders to more free trade and a couple of othere issues. But your assement in about 20 yrs or so. I think china will be a super power and most like will be more powerful then the states. The states have a lot of debt issues right now and definelty need to worry about the ever growing trade surplus and the lost of jobs oversees.

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When it comes to nukes the number doesn't really matter anymore methinks, even if the USA had less than the USSR, they had enough to level that country as well. And I think you're grossly underestimating the Chinese military Runningman, do you think those reddies out there have nothing in between guns and nukes? That would be a costly mistake to make dude, glad you're not leading the army right now.

IMO those that have the most violent thoughts and tend to crush down on things they don't like with violence (for example invade a country that might pose a 'possible threat') are those that are most afraid of what they don't know. One should be cautious at all time, protective when it is needed, but not make panic punches.

Re: China, the worlds next superpower???

[quote=Yao]When it comes to nukes the number doesn't really matter anymore methinks, even if the USA had less than the USSR, they had enough to level that country as well. And I think you're grossly underestimating the Chinese military Runningman, do you think those reddies out there have nothing in between guns and nukes? That would be a costly mistake to make dude, glad you're not leading the army right now. .[/quote]

agreed, the nukes that were used in hiroshima and nagasaki are like relics compared to the nukes now. I think the fact that a nuclear weapon hasnt been used since shows that nukes are just for show. no one intends on actually using them, they are mainly used as a deterrent.

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just remember that it was the USA that is "not affraid" to use them when they feel threatened.. for you to say that the USA is not at all a little trigger happy I think you under estimate the USA. The USA intends on using all of there weapons. that's why they made them. Yao I agree I shouldn't be in charge of the army. But once China finally picks its fight with Japan then it will be on. We will be hearing the fight against opression story again.

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in the end all and be all , the inly thing that will matter is who has the most nukes and who can get em off first. sad.

Re: China, the worlds next superpower???

[quote=thesightless]in the end all and be all , the inly thing that will matter is who has the most nukes and who can get em off first. sad.[/quote] wtf? why do people think number of nukes matter? thats the stupidest shit ive ever heard, it only takes about 4 to wipe out a country the size of the u.s. Everyone is on equal playing field when it comes to nukes pretty much, china, usa, and russia all have thousands. That pretty much makes them equal, what makes them unequal is the technology used alongside the nukes in which the usa is leading the way, but the other nuke powers arnt far behind. But again, no one is using them any time soon so this topic of conversation is pretty much pointless.

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no, but in the very very end, when all is lost and there is a massive war, whoever has the capabilites to be more destructive wins. just like in any fight. i hope for two things. one its avoided completely. two, i hope it happens sooner than later, cuase with my luck, it will happen on the day i retire after working all my life.

and yes, they arent gonna be used within the next 50 years unless something really stupid happens in the middle east regarding isreal. and i mean really stupid, like iran firing first.

Re: China, the worlds next superpower???

[FONT='Times New Roman']I?m no Marxist or Socialist, but it?s interesting that Karl Marx said this type of thing was bound to happen. [/FONT]

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[quote=thesightless]........and yes, they arent gonna be used within the next 50 years unless something really stupid happens in the middle east regarding isreal. and i mean really stupid, like iran firing first.[/quote]

Now that would be stupid!

Back on China, I read the other day that Shanghai should replace NYC as the economic capital of the wolrd in the next 15 years or so now if I could only find that article again....

Re: China, the worlds next superpower???

[quote=Troklo] Back on China, I read the other day that Shanghai should replace NYC as the economic capital of the wolrd in the next 15 years or so now if I could only find that article again....[/quote]

Shanghai's rise as a world economic capital is pretty proportional to how well the chinese stock market develops. As long as investment pours in and people make money off the stock market in china, the sky is the limit.

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[quote=runningman]just remember that it was the USA that is "not affraid" to use them when they feel threatened.. for you to say that the USA is not at all a little trigger happy I think you under estimate the USA. The USA intends on using all of there weapons. that's why they made them.[/quote] That's the silliest things I've heard. We would probably be the last to use them. We have experience with them, we understand the destruction they can cause. If you were to place a loaded gun on a table and have a 13yo and a 30yo person which of the two do you supposed would be more likely to fire it off? The same would apply here. Countries who these technologies are new to are treating them like toys. Just look at India and Pakistan. They don't quite understand the consequences like we do. We also consider the economic fallout, among other things, that would occur. Again, I have a feeling that less developed countries don't even ponder the thought.

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That sounds pretty logical to me I gotta say.

@ runningman: did you mean Japan or Taiwan? I know there's a damn tense relationship with the latter one, and I'm still in doubt wether that conflict can be resolved without bloodshed. However, I do think that if China tries to annexate it by force, the Western world won't do a thing. Simply because in the end they can get more profit off China's booming economy than off Taiwan...

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whenever a communist country does something the west must answer.. the communist country is doing it for a reason.. If the USA thinks they can lose money over it they will respons.. just remember the first to act is usually the one that loses..

Re: China, the worlds next superpower???

This 'fight' will first take place between the economies, military action will only take place in the periphery. If it's going to be anything like some of you here say, this is another cold war in the making, this time the world's resources are at stake though.

Re: China, the worlds next superpower???

I've studied the cold war over and over. It was a war fought by spies and military intelligence. Like whoever stated earlier, the nukes were for show. Both countries were shitting their pants and thus it was a game of who could bluff the other. Runningman, I'm sorry mate, but your 'theories' about US retaliation are far off.

The US has used nukes once and only once and it was for the bettermint of mankind. Fighting a naval warfare in the Pacific rim and a ground and air war on the Euro fronts depleted US resources. France was out of the game due to exhausted infantry and Russia's only chance at survival was father winter. The english were having the war pushed back on to english territory.

Believe me mate, I know about my country and the history of my country much better than most people do on these boards.

Re: China, the worlds next superpower???

China is coming, but they are overestimated. It will last at least two generations till they get equal to the states or europe!! Why?? Cause things are only concentrated on big cities like shanghai peking and two or three other cities. What about the infrastructure?? You can?t build up such a big country with this poor infrastructure. Theres still a lot of agriculture there and streets are pretty bad. Forgot about the Tiger states?? Everybody thought they will be the new economic power, but they dont grow as much as they did before. To have an efficient economical growth most important thing is what the state does. And China is still Communism!!! There are a lot of more things to mention, but this would last too long. Conclusion: China is coming, but not as strong as most people think!

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It's already there FYI. I alread read somewhere that the Chinese economy has passed the American one, Europe is still # 1 but not for long either.

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China isn't a communist nation any more...I was watching cnbc last night and the market is growing very rapidly in china and india and even bulgaria.

Re: China, the worlds next superpower???

it is still communism cause my prof should know that and he is prof for all economic things you can imagine(i´m studying economics at the moment). i recently spoke with him about china and said china is not communistic any more. but he just said the structures of china change to marketoriented thinking, but the state is still communism, cause in china most things are still decided centrally from beijing. it´s true that marketgrowth of china is bigger than in modern industrial states, but that´s no wonder cause the level of most parts of the country is still very low(same in india bulgaria and so on). you can´t regard marketgrowth as only thing to mention for the economic growth of the whole country. state is still important, cause it sets the rules for the marketplace. and china will stay communistic in state for a longer time in my opinion, so they will block themselves from further gain of marketpower.

Re: China, the worlds next superpower???

Then confront your prof with this term:

[COLOR=Orange][I][B]State Capitalism[/B][/I][/COLOR]

Because in the real sense of the word there's nothing communistic about the country anymore since it entered the world market. It did so onder strict state control however, and it's the state that gets the profits in this case as well.