he is actually right in what he said. the people who bitch including the moron john kerry, are the same peopel who saw the same intelligence bush AND CLINTON did, came to the same conclusion, and voted for war. two faced politicians. one day they stand behind you, agreeing, then when it doesnt work out, they flip like a plinko chip and stab ya in the back. the war is wrong, but dont bitch and accuse when you did the same thing and stood behind them making the same conclusion..................

Re: sadly i admit (re:cheney)

[QUOTE=thesightless]they flip like a plinko chip [/QUOTE]

OK, first and foremost, Plinko chips didn't flip. They stayed flat as they bounced all the way down the Plinko board. So there.

On a more substantive note, however, I think it is naive to think that the higher-ups in the Bush adminstration didn't have access to intelligence that Congress didn't see -- the stuff that suggested that Iraq was not a threat. FFS, it was someone in the Bush admin. that edited the intelligence report before anyone else saw it to remove all qualifying language that put us in this spot to begin with. [I'll see if I can find a source for that later -- got too much to do right now to track it down]. Cheney has claimed to have access to "additional intelligence" that folks in Congress didn't have on at least one occassion.

Re: sadly i admit (re:cheney)

"Reasonable people can disagree about the conduct of the war, but it is irresponsible for Democrats to now claim that we misled them and the American people," the president said at an Air Force base in Alaska. "Leaders in my administration and members of the United States Congress from both political parties looked at the same intelligence on Iraq, and reached the same conclusion: Saddam Hussein was a threat."

This is a manipulative distortion; saying Hussein was a threat ? to somebody, somewhere, in some context ? is not the same as endorsing a pre-emptive occupation of his country in a fantastically expensive and blatantly risky nation-building exercise. And the idea that individual senators and members of Congress had the same access to even a fraction of the raw intelligence as the president of the United States is just a lie on its face ? it is a simple matter of security clearances, which are not distributed equally.

It was enormously telling, in fact, that the only part of the Senate which did see the un-sanitized National Intelligence Estimate on Iraq ? the Republican-led Senate Select Intelligence Committee ? shockingly voted in the fall of 2002 against the simple authorization of force demanded by a Republican president.

Re: sadly i admit (re:cheney)

thats my point. there wasnt one person who got all the intelligence without anyone else seeing, then edited it to fit his / her dream war.

but dont agree and back someone one day, then trash them for doing what you allowed them to do. they never should havbe let us go into iraq,. i would have left hussein in power and let them all rot. its just the flip flop nature of ALL politicians i hate. jesus. to

Re: sadly i admit (re:cheney)

thats my point. there wasnt one person who got all the intelligence without anyone else seeing, then edited it to fit his / her dream war.

but dont agree and back someone one day, then trash them for doing what you allowed them to do. they never should havbe let us go into iraq,. i would have left hussein in power and let them all rot. its just the flip flop nature of ALL politicians i hate. jesus. to make

Re: sadly i admit (re:cheney)

Hussein was bad. IMO, that was enough for me to finish off the job.

Re: sadly i admit (re:cheney)

Forget the war, and politics...a more pressing issue is at hand, and some of you are just passing right over it, minus Toasty:

I can't believe Sightless thought Plinko chips flip down the board. WTF man? What intelligence are YOU reading?

Re: sadly i admit (re:cheney)

:BigSmile: :BSPost: :pass: :Crucify: :I surren:

Re: sadly i admit (re:cheney)

imo Bush is a good man, although at times inarticulate/dumb

rummy, cheney, and wolfie are as evil as the devil.

Re: sadly i admit (re:cheney)

When Bush says he didn't know something about something, i tend to believe him. lol. I wouldn't peg him as being clued up on everything that's going on in his administration. Don't know if that's good or bad.

Re: sadly i admit (re:cheney)

I question whether the Congress had the same information as the White House. Imo without the facts, I'd guess they didn't have the same information. Plus, Congress was dragged into the war in light of the recent 9-11 attacks at that time. More importantly, Congress didn't have information different than what the White House was selling to everyone.

What bothers me though is the timing of this recent urgency to discuss bad intelligence in Iraq. I think it's purely political at this point considering the recent elections. The Democrats had nothing to lose bringing this up. People are already dead, lives and families ruined, and billions wasted. They should have been fighting for freqeuent updates from the President years ago when first go in this conflict.

Re: sadly i admit (re:cheney)

if they were so concerned about the loss of american lives, they should have hit harder when we went in. its like they allowed the lives to be lost so they could harp on it. i'd love to see seom politicians say, ""ya know what, lets just level the fucking place and avoid any more deaths""

Re: sadly i admit (re:cheney)

[COLOR=silver]So nice to see that Karl Rove is back to work....[/COLOR]

[COLOR=silver]"Yeah, we lied, but you didn't stop us so it's YOUR fault!!" :roll: [/COLOR]

[COLOR=silver]I think the Dems were too scared that the patriotic mob mentality going on in the country at the time would have run them all out of office if they didn't go along with the big lie. Shame on them for doing so, but to try to shift the culpability for this disaster on them is a move that only this administration could and would do. [/COLOR]

[COLOR=silver]Far worse is the way Bush & Co lied to bring us to a war for their own personal profit. A war that has in fact fulfilled the exact prophecies they manufactured in the first place. A war for which our military was incomprehensible unprepared. A war that will not end till we leave. [/COLOR]

[COLOR=silver]I disappointed but not surprised that there are those who still want to believe the administration enough to fall for this political rhetoric and loose sight of the big picture. [/COLOR]

Re: sadly i admit (re:cheney)

[QUOTE][COLOR=#c0c0c0]I think the Dems were too scared that the patriotic mob mentality going on in the country at the time would have run them all out of office if they didn't go along with the big lie. Shame on them for doing so, but to try to shift the culpability for this disaster on them is a move that only this administration could and would do. [/COLOR][/QUOTE]

THANK YOU>

Re: sadly i admit (re:cheney)

They are nothing if they are not gutless.:roll: They better get someone with some balls to run the show if that want to win shit. I also think this current blitz on the Bush Admin is too much too soon, we're a long way out from mid-term elections. The owness is on them, we NEED some balance in our government before things get too far right.

Re: sadly i admit (re:cheney)

[quote=thesightless]if they were so concerned about the loss of american lives, they should have hit harder when we went in. its like they allowed the lives to be lost so they could harp on it. i'd love to see seom politicians say, ""ya know what, lets just level the fucking place and avoid any more deaths""[/quote]

We did hit them hard. We hit them with the "Shock and Awe" bombing display of power at the very beginning. The only way we could have hit them harder would have caused massive collateral damage.

Re: sadly i admit (re:cheney)

[quote=Kobe]They are nothing if they are not gutless.:roll: They better get someone with some balls to run the show if that want to win shit. I also think this current blitz on the Bush Admin is too much too soon, we're a long way out from mid-term elections. The owness is on them, we NEED some balance in our government before things get too far right.[/quote]

I hate defending the Democrats, but I don't see how you think the Democrats are gutless in this instance. They didn't have information to suggest there wasn't WMDs. They were being told by the CIA(Tenet's slam dunk), Colin Powell, and Dick Cheney that their were WMDs. Plus, at that time, people were scared and looking to the governent to protect them.

However, the Democrats should have fought to have the updates back in 2002 or 2003.

The real blame goes to the people who provided the false information that got us into this war.

Re: sadly i admit (re:cheney)

But additional to that I miss those people that are now arguing against the war simply saying that although their opinion has changed under the influence of all intelligence that since has become available, they were wrong to vote for the war in the first place. It's just annoying to see that they're constantly bypassing that fact and not taking responsability for it: before accusing others, a mea culpa would be in place I think.

Re: sadly i admit (re:cheney)

ummm spuerdave, multiple senators have admitted that the intellingence that turns out to be flawed, and that you blame on tenet, powell, and other repub hounds, was the SAME INTELLINGENCE THAT WAS gathered by clinton's CIA directors and military appointees, just just blame the current folk for the fuck up, look back all the way the root of the problem. dont look to trash the ppl you/I/ whoever oppose, look to the truth. only 1, YES 1 (one, uno), senator voted against the war. and less than a dozen have said that they wouldnt have voted, given what is known now.

also dont disregard the fact that the weapons, chemical could have been hidden, or shipped outside the country, to iran, ssyria, afghan, or simply hidden in tthe sand. no one outside the Baath party leadership and the Iraqi military ppl who actually oversaw the programmes wil ever know.

GOD its so easy to point fingers.

Re: sadly i admit (re:cheney)

lol this thread is weak...THE SAME INTELLIGENCE..like it was a REAL INTELLIGENCE....