From a recent speech to the Council on Foreign Relations:

[QUOTE]The Iraq war should not be debated in the United States on a partisan political platform. This debases our country, trivializes the seriousness of war and cheapens the service and sacrifices of our men and women in uniform. War is not a Republican or Democrat issue. The casualties of war are from both parties. The Bush Administration must understand that each American has a right to question our policies in Iraq and should not be demonized for disagreeing with them. Suggesting that to challenge or criticize policy is undermining and hurting our troops is not democracy nor what this country has stood for, for over 200 years. The Democrats have an obligation to challenge in a serious and responsible manner, offering solutions and alternatives to the Administration?s policies.

Vietnam was a national tragedy partly because Members of Congress failed their country, remained silent and lacked the courage to challenge the Administrations in power until it was too late. Some of us who went through that nightmare have an obligation to the 58,000 Americans who died in Vietnam to not let that happen again. To question your government is not unpatriotic ? to not question your government is unpatriotic. America owes its men and women in uniform a policy worthy of their sacrifices.[/QUOTE]

Three guesses as to who is behind these wise words. If you guessed a Democrat, you'd be wrong. These are the words of Republican Senator Chuck Hagel. The whole speech can be found here:

[url]http://hagel.senate.gov/index.cfm?FuseAction=PressReleases.Detail&PressRelease_id=219401&Month=11&Year=2005[/url]

Well put, Senator. I've always thought it was absurd that Bush could get away with equating questioning his judgment with abandoning the troops or being unpatriotic -- glad to see someone is stepping up to the plate to rebut that.

Re: Unpatriotic to Question Iraq Policy?

its only democratic to question the govt's actions

Re: Unpatriotic to Question Iraq Policy?

Well, to some it is not right now in your country...pretty frightening if you ask me.

I always hate when someone says: Either you're with me, or against me. I have my own fucking opinion thankyouverymuch.

Re: Unpatriotic to Question Iraq Policy?

its our duty to question, i beleive its unpatriotic to trash leadership and in particular, trash the millitary folk who give up thier lives to blindly follow the leadership WE VOTE IN without question and risk their lives. this hits home for me as my brother is ARMY, currently in the US doing some helicopter training. they shouldnt be questioned as to tactics as war is war, and we cant sue the ""insurgency"" for torture, beheadings, killing innocents, etc et al. if we have to beat the shit out of someone, so be it. shit, the jordan bomber was let go b/c of dumb restrictions on POWs.

back on track, yes, is it quite patriotic to question every thing an elected official does in public and private, mind you, i do not apply this to their beleifs , only thier actions, i couldnt care if at home bush was a neo nazi homosexual who secretly worship satan, as long as he tries to present a modicom of decency while acting in office.

Re: Unpatriotic to Question Iraq Policy?

I believe he was speaking merely of the attacks for partisan purposes only.

Re: Unpatriotic to Question Iraq Policy?

We or anyone of any country should have the right to question the government. That is called freedom, and that is why men and women, American, Iraqi, and Allies are all dieing for in Iraq today.

My friend Yao, when Bush made the comments you reference he was using an old slogan from somewhere I can't remember in a comparison to how the comments of our political parties pump up the enemy and give them momentum on the battle field. It is easy to see how some comments are meant for good even if they question certain sensitve areas, but other comments are meant to tear down our military, or our peoples desire to continue supporting this military effort for freedom in Iraq.

Bush wouldn't a comment contradictory to the effort today in the region of the Middle East. Once freedom has become, the people will always desire it.

Re: Unpatriotic to Question Iraq Policy?

i hear ya Rob, at this moment it's not gonna help the effort to be ended in a succesful way if people keep on whining. On the one hand it's important the people keep questioning the war in Iraq, but at the same time it may help if also the democrats would stop frustrating the war effort and just concentrate on supporting either an acceptable exit-strategy or just help the US militay finish the job they took on in the right way.

I do stick with my opinion on what Bush said: it may have been an old quote, but it has also been the US's policy towards a number of 'suspected countries', for example Somalia.

Terrorism should be fought actively on our domestic grounds, but when we start attacking other countries on suspicion, you're crossing a very vague line of what is permittable and what not. I still mainly advocate a different kind of political/economical relationship with the Middle East, because despite the fact that Islmic fundamentalism doesn't need a real reason to attack us, it is at the moment profiting from the hatred that Western policies and actions in their regions have spawned. The balance is gone...we fucked up a great deal of things but att he same time allowed them to move into Europe: maybe a more honest political attitude might be a way to go, combined with less tolerance for fundamentalist sentiments on our own grounds...

I may be a lefty and not willing to generalise, but my opinion is that we DO need to keep those people in check and take an active attitude towards extremism.

Re: Unpatriotic to Question Iraq Policy?

Thev way i look at why we went to war on Iraq is such Attack Iraq try to create a democracy that with it's oil wealth should in return improve the standard of living for each of it's nationals .Inhabitants of surrounding countries see the improvement of the Iraqies way of life and insist on their countries becomming democracies in the hope their living conditions improve too.

Alternative. Let resentment to how the west has prospered fuel hatred and also allow the controled media in said countries to propogate the hatred through lies and missinterpratation .Thus creating a situation where the people of these countries see the only way of improving their lives is through dieing .

Which under my reasoning is . Go to war and try to stop the inevitable . Or do nothing and allow the inevitable to happen .

Don't forget in 30 - 40 years time when the oil has run dry you will have a 100 million middle eastern people in the same poverty situation as most of the worst african nations . And that will truly be a breeding ground for terrorism.

Just my two penneth on this subject

Re: Unpatriotic to Question Iraq Policy?

[quote=thesightless]its our duty to question, i beleive its unpatriotic to trash leadership[/quote]

Patriotism is the love for the country, not the leader. Perhaps you meant fascism ?

Re: Unpatriotic to Question Iraq Policy?

[QUOTE=bart_smastard]Thev way i look at why we went to war on Iraq is such Attack Iraq try to create a democracy that with it's oil wealth should in return improve the standard of living for each of it's nationals .Inhabitants of surrounding countries see the improvement of the Iraqies way of life and insist on their countries becomming democracies in the hope their living conditions improve too.

Alternative. Let resentment to how the west has prospered fuel hatred and also allow the controled media in said countries to propogate the hatred through lies and missinterpratation .Thus creating a situation where the people of these countries see the only way of improving their lives is through dieing .

Which under my reasoning is . Go to war and try to stop the inevitable . Or do nothing and allow the inevitable to happen .

Don't forget in 30 - 40 years time when the oil has run dry you will have a 100 million middle eastern people in the same poverty situation as most of the worst african nations . And that will truly be a breeding ground for terrorism.

Just my two penneth on this subject[/QUOTE]

I think the blow will even be harder for the Western economies...

Re: Unpatriotic to Question Iraq Policy?

[quote=bart_smastard] Let resentment to how the west has prospered fuel hatred and also allow the controled media in said countries to propogate the hatred through lies and missinterpratation .Thus creating a situation where the people of these countries see the only way of improving their lives is through dieing .

Which under my reasoning is . Go to war and try to stop the inevitable . Or do nothing and allow the inevitable to happen .[/quote]

Cool - so I guess you advocate attacking North Korea, Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Zimbabwe etc who's people are in the same situation?