seriously?

why does this guy think the US is out to destroy him and his country??

we have never agressed on him. we support thier business, we just disagree with him and he thinks we are about to topple his gov't

im nowhere near familiar with the situation, so any info would be nice if you know it.

Re: why is chavez screaming so much

I'll throw this out there as a question to those that aren't in the US -- when you hear someone like a Pat Robertson call for the assassination of Chavez, do you take him seriously or think he speaks for the country?

That might be part of it -- knuckleheads like Robertson spewing his BS...

Re: why is chavez screaming so much

pat robertson has the credibility of a pile of cat shit.

i could have given a more credible interview on brain surgury.

Re: why is chavez screaming so much

[QUOTE=thesightless]pat robertson has the credibility of a pile of cat shit.

i could have given a more credible interview on brain surgury.[/QUOTE]

you and I know that, but does the rest of the world? does chavez?

Re: why is chavez screaming so much

all i have to say is ..when chavez speaks he does not speak for venezuela. venezuelans love americans and the US. chavez is a deranged lunatic, who is out to destroy venezuela... fuck him.. hopefully he will shut up soon and he will get assasinated...

Re: why is chavez screaming so much

[QUOTE=remoh]all i have to say is ..when chavez speaks he does not speak for venezuela. venezuelans love americans and the US. chavez is a deranged lunatic, who is out to destroy venezuela... fuck him.. hopefully he will shut up soon and he will get assasinated...[/QUOTE]

I add to this: Chavez only has support among the poor in Venezuela, but not in the middle or upper class: he alienated those with his policies in the past few years.

But how does someone with little support stay in charge?

Easy.

Create your common enemy (he's doing the same as Robert Mugabe from Zimbabwe guys, look around FFS!!), in this case the US. Nothing would irritate Latin-Americans more than the US meddling in their business again, so that's an easy shot. He might in the end even resort to the old 'enemy within' tactics, which would brand any opposition within Venezuela as enemy of the state; a much used tactic over there, which has resulted in the dissapearance and death of many people under the former Argentinean and Chilean governments, just to give a few examples. He's not that far off anymore guys....

Re: why is chavez screaming so much

[quote=Yao]I add to this: Chavez only has support among the poor in Venezuela[/quote]

Little support you say??? LOL

80% of the people in Venezuela are poor.

Re: why is chavez screaming so much

[quote=thesightless]seriously?

why does this guy think the US is out to destroy him and his country??

we have never agressed on him. we support thier business, we just disagree with him and he thinks we are about to topple his gov't

im nowhere near familiar with the situation, so any info would be nice if you know it.[/quote]

Below is a link with some infomation as to why Chavez will not trust the US.

I don't blame him.

[URL="http://www.rethinkvenezuela.com/downloads/ciamemo.htm"]http://www.rethinkvenezuela.com/downloads/ciamemo.htm[/URL]

Re: why is chavez screaming so much

[QUOTE=dig72]Little support you say??? LOL

80% of the people in Venezuela are poor.[/QUOTE]

I didn't say little, Dig...but there's a difference between having the support of the masses who have relatively little power and support from the middle and upper class. FYI, the largest chunk of the army comes out of the middle class dude, not from the poorest. In the end most coup d'?tats and revolts have been started by army commanders coming from the middle class, not by the poor people, not by the richest (they simply make sure they stay befriended with whomever there may be in charge, and sometimes finance the rebels).

Your typical Caudillo doesn't come from a rich family, but again, middle class, and has fought his way up. Most dangerous social class in Latin America, and it's only through the increased rooting of democracy out there that the masses have finally been able to mean something in the past decade. But the real power is still with the military in most countries, and that includes Venezuela.

Re: why is chavez screaming so much

[quote=Yao] I didn't say little [/quote]

Below, is what you posted earlier.

[B]But how does someone with little support stay in charge?[/B]

What's important here is that Chavez won 59% of the vote during his nations elections.

The results were confirmed by electoral authorities and international observers. The votes weren't rigged. That's twice the amount of times that he has been democratically elected by his people.

I'm not saying he's the nicest guy on earth, all I'm saying is that the guy obviously has the support of his nation and if his support stems from the most poor and vulnerable people, who happen to be the majority in Venezuela, than so be it.

Re: why is chavez screaming so much

[QUOTE=dig72]Below, is what you posted earlier.

[B]But how does someone with little support stay in charge?[/B]

What's important here is that Chavez won 59% of the vote during his nations elections.

The results were confirmed by electoral authorities and international observers. The votes weren't rigged. That's twice the amount of times that he has been democratically elected by his people.

I'm not saying he's the nicest guy on earth, all I'm saying is that the guy obviously has the support of his nation and if his support stems from the most poor and vulnerable people, who happen to be the majority in Venezuela, than so be it.[/QUOTE]

My bad, because he clearly did not have little support as you said. I neglected to read back my own words, thanks for pointing it out mate.

I am however not talking about his legitimacy here Dig...I didn't question the election results as far as I know: I am very well aware of the fact that the man has been chosen democratically and that those elections have been approved of and confirmed by international observers. Simple number however, cannot tell you where his support base is: that information will have to come from demographic research, combined with some political, economical and even anthropological analyses.

And those tell us what I've told you before: the military power is NOT in the hands of his support base, of in those of the middle class. Chavez is already pissing off the upper class in his country, and he's moving onto slippery ice at the moment. His rants against the US are not doing the country in general any favours, and maybe he would have more credit with those who voted against him if he would finally shut his big mouth and actually focused more on the problems within his borders. That might in the long run be a better way to secure his position.

He may have support in the army for now (he's always hugging up to them, since he's been a paratrooper himself), but if the army command deems it necessary it will remove him from office (has happened already, he did get back after days of severe protest however).

[quote]The Ch?vez administration has faced vigorous opposition from the more affluent and established sectors of Venezuelan society; notable among these are the Venezuelan national chamber of commerce (Fedec?maras) and Venezuela?s largest trade union federation, the Confederaci?n de Trabajadores de Venezuela. Their consistent opposition to the Ch?vez administration's socialist policies eventually resulted in a coup d'?tat, general strike/lockout, and the recall referendum, all of which ultimately failed to remove Ch?vez from the presidency. The opposition has reported that the referendum has been marred by extensive electoral fraud, while international observers stated that the official CNE results matched their counts at the polling sites they sampled. [17] Whether seen as a socialist liberator or a fascist demagogue, Ch?vez remains one of the most complex, controversial, and high-profile figures in the history of Latin America and the 21st century.[/quote]

taken from: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_Chavez[/url]

another source: [url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1925236.stm[/url]

There is your middle class opposition. He has done some good stuff too, but the question is wether he wil continue to focus on that instead of kicking and screaming like a baby. It's a sign of inability when a leader starts doing that, and that is most often a bad omen too.

Believe me, i'm not all against the man, I just think he should wisen up and shut up, and concentrate on his job a little more ;-)

Re: why is chavez screaming so much

Believe me, the CIA is already behind the situation. The direction the venezuelan government is going is not a pretty picture for the White House given the fact that Venezuela is the third largest US oil exporter after Canada and Saudi. The possibility exists that in the future Chavez could boycott the US, and that would be catastrophical to our oil supply and economy.

Re: why is chavez screaming so much

[quote=Yao] There is your middle class opposition. He has done some good stuff too, but the question is wether he wil continue to focus on that instead of kicking and screaming like a baby. It's a sign of inability when a leader starts doing that, and that is most often a bad omen too.

Believe me, i'm not all against the man, I just think he should wisen up and shut up, and concentrate on his job a little more ;-)[/quote]

Fair enough and I agree.

Re: why is chavez screaming so much

Let's take a guess on when he and Mugabe get ousted. I give em both less than a year.. :D

Re: why is chavez screaming so much

i'll be the one to say it

""existence of poor people is nature taking natural selection to our species. by fighting for them, we are fighting nature and nothing good will come out of it for the planet.""-- someone smart.

Re: why is chavez screaming so much

hmm...when modern technology and politics come into play I daresay natural selection is not the issue anymore...

Re: why is chavez screaming so much

stop with this shit!

the military coup that tried to bring him out of the goverment was us supported and organized trought your fucking cia.

Re: why is chavez screaming so much

umm its was neither planner nor supported, the CIA knew about it, but did not help it .

either way, socialism doesnt work unless the GDP is increased firstly to spread the monetary value through socialism. they need to build before spreading. spreading a little money vs spreading a lot of money. the system he wants doesnt help unless more capital expenditures occur, they simply cannot socialize existing business and industry. long term planning and building through the private sector helps a lot more than the seizure of business and hand me outs.

Re: why is chavez screaming so much

[QUOTE=two-]stop with this shit!

the military coup that tried to bring him out of the goverment was us supported and organized trought your fucking cia.[/QUOTE]

Chill out dude ;)

I have no idea wether the CIA was involved, it wouldn't surpise me if it was, but I'm not immediately convinced that they [I]were[/I] involved either. I think it could easily be done without them too...just like i said: it may have been a warning from the middle & upper class to him: within many Latin American countries there is still a deep division between the classes, and in some countries it seems to cause some big problems...but in the end virtually no country has come to political stability without a struggle.

Do you think European countries smoothly made the transition from feudal system to democracy? No way jos?....war, revolution, torture, fighting, and philosophy. Those were among the ingredients. You're doing much better than most African countries already...just hope the USA keeps it's hands off the Latin American economies, so the transition can take place in relative calm.

Re: why is chavez screaming so much

if anything, a good way to do it would be to have the USA offer whatever help chavez wanted, and how he wanted. you need a factory to be built?? OK we will offer US based tax incentives to the corps who build there, in advance, we will state that they can run and operate it for 10 yearsm then you can socialize it, it will create a tradeskill and jobs in an impovershed area. let venezula set the pay scale. let them set OSHA style regulations. there needs to be an influx of capitol before you can start.

Re: why is chavez screaming so much

No.

This is what they used to do in the past, and in Africa too: the result was too much outside influence in domestic politics. If US companies want to invest, it should happen on their own initiative and preferrably on limited scale: in those countries multinationals have all too easily gotten a grip on the economy and politics, turning them to their advantage. In the deloping areas politics and the economy are benefited by protective measures. Why do you think everyone is opposing Bush's free trade zone proposition? It has no real advantages for the South American countries, but sooooo much more for the US based companies.

They are almost literally standing by, fully geared up and ready to trample the local markets as soon as the borders are opened. I say NO to that free trade zone, it will [I]kill[/I] the South American economies man.