WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH THIS COUNTRY.

im sorry, but this one falls on the lap of the far left. how in the fuck are they letting this judge make it unconstitutional to recite our pledge to our country just because some little shit's parents are agnostic? should we even be a country any more? tell the kid to simply keep his mouth shut when the rest say it. god, whats next?

i understand the the concept behind the 10 commandments, but this is retarded. its not about religion, its about loyalty and history.

George washington has gotta be pulling his hair out of his head.

Re: WOW. its now unconstitutional to recite the pledge in cl

schools still recite the pledge in class?

Re: WOW. its now unconstitutional to recite the pledge in class

look bro, the god squad added the "god" part to the original pledge a few decades ago. why not just downgrade to the earlier version? the alternative is to change the constitution.

Re: WOW. its now unconstitutional to recite the pledge in class

yes in 1954 they added it. take it back and recite it.

or tell kids that they owe nothing to the country they enjoy so much. hand out the burkas and tell em curfew starts at 9.

one thing i think they should be forcing kids to do is this. oh yeah, and study.

Re: WOW. its now unconstitutional to recite the pledge in cl

This really doesn't bother me at all. Being forced to say a few patriotic lines toward a symbol every morning in school? does that really make a difference? no.

Re: WOW. its now unconstitutional to recite the pledge in class

[quote=thesightless]yes in 1954 they added it. take it back and recite it.

or tell kids that they owe nothing to the country they enjoy so much. hand out the burkas and tell em curfew starts at 9.

one thing i think they should be forcing kids to do is this. oh yeah, and study.[/quote]

sorry man, i don't think this is one country under god. because, i'm not part of the god squad. this is one country under the constitution and the rule of law. when you throw the god reference in, it REALLY DOES make non-christians feel uncomfortable. It made me FEEL uncomfortable when I was in school.

Re: WOW. its now unconstitutional to recite the pledge in class

they should take it out. im there with you. but i do think they should learn and recite it. dont make them, but dont make it illegal to say it. we could be like asian countries where every male owes a few years to the military.

Re: WOW. its now unconstitutional to recite the pledge in cl

As long as it has the reference to God or any other deity I think it should be unconstitutional. What if they changed God to Allah? I'm sure most Christians would have a fit.

[quote=thesightless]George washington has gotta be pulling his hair out of his head.[/quote]

I think quite the contrary, Washington was most likely an [url=http://www.virginiaplaces.org/religion/religiongw.html][color=red]Aethist or Agnostic[/color], [/url]possibly a Deist (considered an agnostic of old times). Thomas Jefferson, another founding father was an Aethist. I think they would applaud this decision. You don't think that freedom of religion was by chance, do you?

[quote]And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerve in the brain of Jupiter. But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this most venerated reformer of human errors.

-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823[/quote]

Re: WOW. its now unconstitutional to recite the pledge in class

i didnt mean it in the fact of religion at all. its more about the idea of the pledge to the country. i would drop the religious reference if it keeps the pledge around.

I think it is pretty clear that the problem that the court had wasn't with reciting the pledge per se, it was the fact that the pledge happens to include the reference to "one nation, under God." So before anyone gets too bent out of shape over the idea that the court doesn't want the pleadge recited, make sure you know what it is that it was really troubled by.

Anyone with even a passing familiarity with the concept of separation of church and state should realize that "under God" would be a prohibited recognition of the establishment of religion, and that clause really ought to be excised from the pledge, if you're looking at it from a purely legal/constitutional standpoint.

With that said, I could really care less if it is in there or not. Although I'm not a particularly religious person, I've said the pledge my whole life and those two words haven't given me any real problem. If I'm looking at it objectively, though, if someone is going to challenge it, I think they've got a pretty good argument that the "under God" part is inconsistent with the establishment clause.

With all the talk about so called "activist judges," though, I think people sometimes forget that judges don't actually have the option of tweaking things to suit their liking. The judge either has to uphold the recitation of the pledge in its entirety or strike it down in its entirety. As such, a finding that the pledge, as it reads now, impermissibly coerces a religious act upon someone, doesn't mean that the act of reciting a pledge of allegiance has been struck down. The way I read the decision, drop "under God," and you're golden.

Re: WOW. its now unconstitutional to recite the pledge in class

looks like your country is going to shit as well as mine.. here they are trying to enforce Sharia Law for muslims.. how about that.. I said it before and I will say it again "politically correct is going to be the end of the west." now they are going to change the rules from the men that created the country?? who the fuck do these people think they are?? Anarchy is just around the corned and martial law to protect yourself will be soon.

Re: WOW. its now unconstitutional to recite the pledge in class

hey, they vetoed the Sharia law. it was only going to be used for divorce cases like jewish and catholic law is respected in said cases. Islamic Sharia Law, as most of us know, is extraordinarily prejudice against women and the rights they maintain under the religious guidlines they follow. we have seen a few Islamic Nation move away from Sharia law with the advent of the ""women's rights movements"" in the region. in the matter of a decade, they went from basically being lockedd in house, to getting jobs, voting rights, political positions and more in certain regions. however, there is still much to be done. but fear not, canada will maintain a universal code of law for all in the provinces. :D

Re: WOW. its now unconstitutional to recite the pledge in class

America is going to the dogs .. this kinda p.c. bullshit should of been stamped on when they sent memos to all civil servants telling them they wern't allowed to say merry christmass anymore and had to say happy holidays instead . in england we arn't even allowed to display our flag outside of businesses anymore . it seems to be that the majority of the population has to respect every one elses country,traditions and beliefs but their own

Re: WOW. its now unconstitutional to recite the pledge in class

agreed ^

that was what i was trying to say about why the christians here want to avoid gay ""marriage"". personally i dont care. but i understand that """marriage""" is something they want respected. the union of a gay/lesbian couple should be called ""union"", not ""marriage"" in thier eyes.

people are forced to ""accept and respect"" others, we cant even hold our own befliefs. we arent even allowed to hate anyone anymore. if you get into a fight and call the person a name that is based on religion, race, or preference, you automatically become a ""hate crime"". even if you werent the perpretrator.

Re: WOW. its now unconstitutional to recite the pledge in class

when i was at school we had to celebrate with the muslims and hindus ( no jewish at school so didn't do any of theirs) with their main holydays and they had to do likewise with OUR custums . that is intergration and learning. banning and ignoring causes segregation and resentment.

i wish these thinktanks that come up with these ideas would listen to everyones views . instead of the wacko's shouting the loudest

Re: WOW. its now unconstitutional to recite the pledge in class

on the gay marriage thing sightless i agree that if a church ( congregation ) is against gay /lesbian marriage it should not have to defend itself against not allowing same sex unions within said church . it is that churches beliefs and the couple should look eleswhere until they find a parish that accepts them to perform the cermony .. this is the main hub of my argument there is a big difference between an outright ban and what suits the majority .if you are in a democratic society then you follow the will of the majority . national identity is something every country should have and we shouldn't let it be eroded through fear of upsetting a few campaigners who's actions only fuel resentment and hate within communities . we have to live together and accept eachover not dilute identities till the only voices heard are the extremists . if they can't live with us then they should look eleswhere to live . a foriegn national can practice his own beliefs but he shouldn't tell others they can't practice theirs . and if they don't like thier sons / daughters reciting the pledge part that inlcudes "god "they can always tell them to not utter those sentances when reciting . simple answers are the best ones

link?

nevermind. found it

[url]http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9341286/[/url]

Re: WOW. its now unconstitutional to recite the pledge in class

This all comes from atheists which are a small minority in this country. They want to take out God from everything and create a world they feel comfortable in and don't care about the majority who don't mind God being recited in the pledge. They should acquiesce to the majority in this instance.

Next thing they'll attack all the currency because it says "In God We Trust". If they haven't already.

Re: WOW. its now unconstitutional to recite the pledge in class

^^^ your right it is the beginning of the end of mankind. It is said that when man turns his back on God, and destroys his Mother Earth it is the end. Anybody know anything about the Crystal Skulls?? Maybe they can save us.

Re: WOW. its now unconstitutional to recite the pledge in cl

Our country had in fact removed the 'god be with us' phrase from our currency when the Euro was introduced. (Each country could still give one side a face if it's onw, the other side is the same in every country in the euro-zone)

Religion is something personal, and ot not be pushed into other people's lives. It should be a thing of choice rather than intrusive. A kid should simply be given the choice to recite the pledge, or not if it chooses so. Simple...not?

[quote=Yao]Religion is something personal, and ot not be pushed into other people's lives. It should be a thing of choice rather than intrusive. A kid should simply be given the choice to recite the pledge, or not if it chooses so. Simple...not?[/quote] :RightOn:

[quote=superdave]They should acquiesce to the majority in this instance. [/quote] yeah, so should homosexuals, pro-life activisits, euthanasia protesters, those against the right to bear arms, republicans, and the disabled. :roll:

Re: WOW. its now unconstitutional to recite the pledge in class

In america, its never simple. we have the right and the lawyers to sue over ANYTHING. AND I MEAN ANYTHING.

in the last 5 years i have seen...

ppl sue Mcdonalds over getting fat when they eat a minimum of 10 meals a week there.

ppl sue places for burning themselves with HOT coffee.

ppl sue thier towns for beach erosion on thier property.\

women sue a man at work for having aboner when then wear bikini tops to work

ppl sue for child rights 15 years after giving a shild up for adoption.

and much more.

Re: WOW. its now unconstitutional to recite the pledge in cl

Man.

People are just going crazy...they wanna live in a fucking computergame instead of 'real life'. If a woman can sue a guy that gets a boner over her wearing a bikini top....he can sue her over wearing that thing and giving him a boner. LOL. They should do just that...reply to every stupid case with a similarly stupid complaint.

[list]sue people for maltreating themselves by eating 10 meals a week @ McDo

sue people for being stupid enough to ask a place to dimish the quality of it's coffee by reducing the temperature, or simply for being stupid enough to assume it's not hot.

sue people for wasting tax-payer's money over things that are out of human's control.

sue people for ruining a kid's life [/list]

Now, how about that? I's guess complaints like that should clarify the stupidity of the clainms to those people. If they don't get it, sue them for being plainly stupid and being a disgrace to mankind. :D

@runningman: those sharia practices were in fact already in place for a long time, it came in the news because it is now [i]forbidden[/i].

And...how come not believing in god makes your country go to shit? Am I a lesser person for not believing the same thing as you? It is so arbitrary...there's a lot of religious people that go to church every sunday and still fuck a little boy in his pooper, and there's a lot of people that don't believe, but just try to be a good person (and the other way around). Belief is not the determining factor IMO. You just have bad people and good people based on behaviour.

Re: WOW. its now unconstitutional to recite the pledge in class

one of the worst cases i eva heard of was a woman sneaking through a window in the toilets to aviod paying to enter the club .. anyhows she knocked a toothout slipping onto the floor and sued the club for ?7k

Re: WOW. its now unconstitutional to recite the pledge in class

[quote=bart_smastard]one of the worst cases i eva heard of was a woman sneaking through a window in the toilets to aviod paying to enter the club .. anyhows she knocked a toothout slipping onto the floor and sued the club for ?7k[/quote]

^

lmao.

""sorry we didnt leave the window open so you could commit theft and trespassing in order save a 10 spot. we apologize that we didnt fund your schools to teach you that you might get hurt doing something like this. sorry for not putting bars on the windows and posting a huge sign with ""YOU SHOULD NOT BREAK IN THROUGH THIS WINDOW"" next to said window.""---the managment

Re: WOW. its now unconstitutional to recite the pledge in class

[QUOTE=toasty]Anyone with even a passing familiarity with the concept of separation of church and state should realize that "under God" would be a prohibited recognition of the establishment of religion, and that clause really ought to be excised from the pledge, if you're looking at it from a purely legal/constitutional standpoint. [/QUOTE]

I respectfully disagree with this point. "Under God" doesn't establish religion in our government or schools. If it did, it would read "under the Christian God", or "under a Buddhist God", etc...I don't practice a religion but I do believe in the existence of God... The First Amendment reads, " Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." Nowhere does it say that religion and the state will be separated...only that the government won't do what The Church of England did, and that is to [b]establish[/b] a national religion. How does using "under God" in the pledge [b]establish[/b] a national religion?

That being said, I do, however, agree that if kids don't want to say it, they shouldn't have to...but if they do, then they should be allowed to.

Re: WOW. its now unconstitutional to recite the pledge in class

[QUOTE=thesightless]WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH THIS COUNTRY.

im sorry, but this one falls on the lap of the far left. how in the fuck are they letting this judge make it unconstitutional to recite our pledge to our country just because some little shit's parents are agnostic? should we even be a country any more? tell the kid to simply keep his mouth shut when the rest say it. god, whats next?

i understand the the concept behind the 10 commandments, but this is retarded. its not about religion, its about loyalty and history.

George washington has gotta be pulling his hair out of his head.[/QUOTE]

Omit the "One nation under God" bit and all's good. Maybe we should amend the Pledge of Alliegence. :lol:

Re: WOW. its now unconstitutional to recite the pledge in class

[QUOTE=gokada]I respectfully disagree with this point. "Under God" doesn't establish religion in our government or schools. If it did, it would read "under the Christian God", or "under a Buddhist God", etc...I don't practice a religion but I do believe in the existence of God... The First Amendment reads, " Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." Nowhere does it say that religion and the state will be separated...only that the government won't do what The Church of England did, and that is to [b]establish[/b] a national religion. How does using "under God" in the pledge [b]establish[/b] a national religion?

That being said, I do, however, agree that if kids don't want to say it, they shouldn't have to...but if they do, then they should be allowed to.[/QUOTE]

Still Glenn, this little sentence does imply to me that each and every citizen of the nation is responsible to a god, which in itself is a false assumption IMO. It still connects the nation to a deiety, which is denying the secularity of a state IMO. Thin line to thread on though, I won't be calling you wrong for walking on the other side of it...

To get more technical: the 'under god' implies a hierarchy, placing the state and the people under a god in rank, while in a secular state the is no higher authority in practise than the state itself. Iknow I know...nitpicking to the max...:D

Re: WOW. its now unconstitutional to recite the pledge in class

[QUOTE=gokada]I respectfully disagree with this point. "Under God" doesn't establish religion in our government or schools. If it did, it would read "under the Christian God", or "under a Buddhist God", etc...I don't practice a religion but I do believe in the existence of God... The First Amendment reads, " Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." Nowhere does it say that religion and the state will be separated...only that the government won't do what The Church of England did, and that is to [b]establish[/b] a national religion. How does using "under God" in the pledge [b]establish[/b] a national religion?
[/QUOTE]

Couple things:

First, I think there is a difference between "under [b]G[/b]od," which refers to a specific deity and "under [b]a[/b] god," which implies the existence of a non-descript higher power of some sort. Put another way, "under God," implies that we are a nation that is not "under Allah," "under Buddha," "under Krishna," etc., you get the idea I'm sure. It may seem like hair-splitting, but that capital "G" makes a difference.

Second, and building upon that, since "God" refers to a specific deity, the inclusion of the term ipso facto constitutes a recognition of the religions that claim the big guy as their own to the exclusion of those that worship another higher power.

Also, what Yao said above ^^

Like I said, though, I've never really had fits about the inclusion of "under God" in the pledge, and have always said it along with everyone else. Doesn't bug me a bit.

Re: WOW. its now unconstitutional to recite the pledge in class

these douchebags wont be happy until America is divided into two seperate countries. Just hope they get the shit end of the stick.