[quote] 'Health Chips' Could Help Patients in US

Jul. 31--President Bush's former health secretary Tommy Thompson is putting the final touches to a plan that could result in US citizens having a radio frequency identification (RFID) chip inserted under their skin, The Business has learned.

The RFID capsules would be linked to a computerised database being created by the US Department of Health to store and manage the nation's health records. It could be the precursor to a similar scheme in the UK.

The president's budget for 2006 continues to support the use of health information technology by increasing funding to $125m (�70m, E103m) for pilot schemes.

Thompson, now a director of Applied Digital Solutions, the company that makes the chips, intends to publish the proposal in the next 50 days, by which time he plans to have had a VeriChip inserted in his arm. Thompson believes the capsules could help save thousands of lives every year.

VeriChip spokesman John Procter says around 98,000 people die needlessly in the US every year after being given inappropriate treatment because their medical history was not available.

"There is a vast range of people who could benefit from having an RFID chip inserted under their skin as insurance against an accident. People with adverse reactions to certain medicines such as penicillin, people with pacemakers, people with allergies, people with weak hearts, would be made safer by a process that costs around $200 per person. In fact, virtually everyone could benefit from having a chip inserted."

The company intends to lobby the UK health authorities to inject the chips into British patients.

According to Procter, the chips can also be used for financial transactions. In Europe, the Baja Beach Club chain has introduced chipping in the Netherlands and Spain.

The VeriChip is inserted at the club and means club-goers will no longer have to wait in line to pay to get in and will be able to use the chip to pay their bar bill.

Civil liberties groups such as Caspian in the US fear that the need for increased security in the wake of terrorist attacks could act as a catalyst for a more widespread use of VeriChips. [/quote]

[url]http://www.rednova.com/news/health/196561/health_chips_could_help_patients_in_us/[/url]

[img]http://images.art.com/images/PRODUCTS/large/10000000/10000490.jpg[/img]

Re: To those who say it'll never happen

this will never happen. ever

they cannot do harm to you. (i.e. sugery)

NO ONE, not even the hardest neo conservatice would agree.

Re: To those who say it'll never happen

And I'll start biting anyone that tries to.

Re: To those who say it'll never happen

they cant even allow convicted rapists to be forced to wear the ankle collar, do we honestly think they will force people have chips put into their bodies?

I'd do it.

it's the size of a grain of rice, and will only contain a number (likely your SSN) that links to the master RFID database. battery-less, and only transmits when a certain frequency passes through it.

potential benefits:[list][]health information storage []cash-less payments at stores. swipe your wrist at a register []drivers license information storage []identify missing/found children []cops will be able to detect wanted criminals from a car-length away []criminal investigation/evidence (Joe and Steve were the only people in the building when Steve was shot)[/list] etc.

I have nothing to hide :not me: all the anti-chip people don't want to be tracked everywhere they go... but the government won't be tracking you unless you were a wanted criminal. fuck 'em. let them track me... they already force me to pay taxes, obey traffic laws, regulate my substance consumption, and tell me what I can or can't buy. them having a passive ability to look up the fact that I walked into WalMart at 7:28pm is little compared to all the active restrictions placed upon me.

Re: To those who say it'll never happen

can it detect drug lvls?

[quote=picklemonkey](Joe and Steve were the only people in the building when Steve was shot)[/quote] If I've told you once, I've told you a million times. Jibby shot himself, I had nothing to do with it. :roll:

Re: To those who say it'll never happen

[quote=thesightless]can it detect drug lvls?[/quote] huh? is that a serious question?

Re: To those who say it'll never happen

yeah, my expertise is tax law and accounting, not technology or medicine. would suck if they figured out a way to tell if you were smoking weed or drinking and driving. you go out to enjoy a nice smoke and relax then a swat team drops by. :roll:

i really dont know, so i ask

k. it wouldn't detect any of that stuff (at least not the current RFID models today... maybe in 50 years?)

there's no battery, no real circuitry involved... basically, a low-strength radio frequency hits it (which likely can't scan farther than 25 feet away), which makes it oscillate back your number (RFID serial number? social security number?) which can then be used to query a database. anyone with a rfid scanner could create their own database, because each chip would hold nothing but an account number.

examples:[list][]the state/government might have it linked to your drivers license info, criminal history, health records, etc. []airlines might have their own database to link your number to your frequent flyer account, so when you step onto a flight your frequent flyer miles are credited and flight attendance is taken. []stores could have a scanner at their doors how many times you walk through in/out of their store []banks could link it to their database which contains your checking/credit accounts so you can just "swipe" your hand instead of any physical cards... [*]maybe parents can install a scanner in their house to track how often a teen sneaks out of the house after midnight[/list] every one of those would be stored in their own proprietary database, but all based off of the same serial number that you can never lose (unless you have some freak accident and lose an arm?). it won't detect anything in your body... all it does is provide a unique ID when requested, so the scanning software can query/update their own database accordingly. all of these ideas definitely won't be linked to the same database, so there's no real worry about your local grocery store being able to pull money from your bank account or pull up your criminal records... it's all in completely different databases. It'd be similar to how it is now, where the store has a credit card scanner which dials up to the bank and requests the specific info; it'd all be regulated.

[img]http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Art/HEALTH/041013/HSmall_VeriChip_Penny.widec.jpg[/img]

I just resized that image for scale... hold a penny up to the penny in the pic and you'll see it's a 1:1 scale. the rfid tags would be the actual size shown in the picture... about as big as a grain of rice

[img]http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/4008/rfid4mq.jpg[/img]

Re: To those who say it'll never happen

for someone like me, that thing is dangerous. i need cash to know where i stand at 4 am at a bar. if i dont see the money i will spend beyond what i should, too many 180 dollar bar tabs in my time.

[quote=picklemonkey] examples:[list][]the state/government might have it linked to your drivers license info, criminal history, health records, etc. []airlines might have their own database to link your number to your frequent flyer account, so when you step onto a flight your frequent flyer miles are credited and flight attendance is taken. []stores could have a scanner at their doors how many times you walk through in/out of their store []banks could link it to their database which contains your checking/credit accounts so you can just "swipe" your hand instead of any physical cards... [*]maybe parents can install a scanner in their house to track how often a teen sneaks out of the house after midnight[/list] [/quote]

That all sounds pretty cool, but as cool as that all sounds, it just kinda creeps me out to think that there is a way to track where I am, what I'm doing, etc. I don't even have a Blackberry b/c I like having times and places that are totally mine, unreachable to the world -- this just sounds too big brother, even if it's actual use is innocuous or even helpful.

[quote=picklemonkey]I just resized that image for scale... hold a penny up to the penny in the pic and you'll see it's a 1:1 scale.[/quote] On what resolution? It's not 1:1 on my screen. :NotMe:

Re: To those who say it'll never happen

yeah, i could see them putting in the trackers on every street corner in NYC and DC. creepy

that'd be cool for bars to use it for bar tabs.

@sightless-just because you have it doesn't mean you have to use it :lol: just carry cash into a bar. it'd basically be nothing more than a credit card implanted into your wrist.

@toast-it's not a cell phone, it's just a piece of paper with a number on it :)

@skat-1024x768 17"LCD :not me:

[quote=picklemonkey] I have nothing to hide :not me: all the anti-chip people don't want to be tracked everywhere they go... but the government won't be tracking you unless you were a wanted criminal. fuck 'em. let them track me... they already force me to pay taxes, obey traffic laws, regulate my substance consumption, and tell me what I can or can't buy. them having a passive ability to look up the fact that I walked into WalMart at 7:28pm is little compared to all the active restrictions placed upon me.[/quote]

Only criminals will be tracked? I doubt it. This system also opens up the ability for others to get your information. You want anyone with a RFID scanner to be able to grab you SS number?? What about if you had gotten into trouble when you were younger, let's say you got busted with some pot or something? Now a cop pulls up next to you and sees that you have a previous history (since you RFID identifies you as said individual) don't you think he is more likely to pull you over now? What about when someone duplicates your RFID (grab a scanner and duplicate and now my name is Adam)? Much like using biometric data its much harder to change or correct than a password or credit card. Now someone gets to run around claiming to be you because no one bothers to check picture ID anymore. What about you work being tied into other DB's which show that you were at the beach the day you called in sick? How about when you go in for a job interview and you potential employer is able to look at you medical history in a flash and doesen't offer you the job because you might be a higher medical risk (I've seen some people with more than normal medical issues layed off, though the company will never say its for those reasons)?

These issues just scratch the surface of RFID for tracking people. Besides, IIRC the new national ID cards will contain RFID's, why not piggyback on those rather than implanting them?

when I said only criminals would be tracked, I meant "followed" or something. they'd still track us, but have no reason to pay attention to us unless they knew to look out for us.

you definitely make excellent points, but do you think that in a world of computers your picture won't be saved in a database used purely for identification? For example, I seriously banks would immediately charge an account unless approved by both the card owner and the merchant. Scan your wrist, your name/digital photo(s) appear on the screen, and the merchant decides whether to complete the transaction. that's how it's currently set up, at least... to ensure you are who you say you are, you not only need the card, but you need to enter a PIN number and/or sign papers and have signatures compared both after the card is swiped and before the transaction completes. I would think the same would apply for rfid tags.

yes, a cop may be more likely to pull a person over if they knew they had a criminal record beforehand... but it's profiling/discrimination. just as everybody is to be treated equally, cops in america are more prone to pull over african americans, mexicans, or cubans before a white person. it's definitely not legal... but it's a moral issue, rather than a technology issue imo. the same discrimination issues go for interviews, etc. :not me:

^^^^ I'm sure our pictures are in some database right now (for identification purposes) but the chance for abuse is greater. I'm all for technology, trust me I'm a bigger geek than you imagine.

However, the more information thats out there the more chance there is for abuse. Just look at the recent credit card information problems they have been having. I'm sure the intent is good but we are not talking about a card you can pull out and swipe/scan. This can be scanned without you knowing. Personally I'll be walking around with my tinfoil hat on if this was ever implemented.

:lol:

it can be abused... but so can anything else. I just don't think it'd be an issue. I just see it about as risky as credit card/identify theft because it can't be used unless a clerk approves a sale, and because you can't use it without actually being physically present, your face would obviously have to match the photo. I think it would be more secure, because someone couldn't just charge shit to your stuff via the Internet, etc... there would always be some sort of human interaction involved. :not me: