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Rove implicated in Plame outing

38 durable postsStarted 2005-07-07Latest 2005-07-29
#16694Post 1 of 38

As reported on Drudge Report:

[url]http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000972841[/url]

[quote]Now that Time Inc. has turned over documents to a federal judge, revealing who its reporter, Matt Cooper, identified as his source or sources in the Valerie Plame/CIA case, speculation runs rampant. Lawrence O'Donnell, senior MSNBC political analyst, now claims that at least two authoritative sources have confirmed that one name is top White House mastermind Karl Rove.

This afternoon, Newsweek's Michael Isikoff confirmed that Cooper did indeed talk to Rove for his story, but Rove's lawyer denied he was the key leaker in the case.

"The e-mails surrendered by Time Inc., which are largely between Cooper and his editors, show that one of Cooper's sources was White House deputy chief of staff Karl Rove, according to two lawyers who asked not to be identified because they are representing witnesses sympathetic to the White House," Isikoff writes on the Newsweek web site. "Cooper and a Time spokeswoman declined to comment. But in an interview with Newsweek, Rove's lawyer, Robert Luskin, confirmed that Rove had been interviewed by Cooper for the article. It is unclear, however, what passed between Cooper and Rove."

...

[/quote]

Will be interesting to see how this pans out.

#446251Post 2 of 38

Re: Rove implicated in Plame outing

the reporters should be locked up firstly for this. rove i couldnt care less about, he wont be winning any more elections anyway. they should be charged with treason too.

#446254Post 3 of 38

Agreed re the reporters, although if it turns out that Rove did, indeed, leak Plame's name, I find him even more culpable than them. I would hope that the reporters would exercise some restraint and not feel the need to publish her name, for reasons I've set forth in an earlier post on this topic -- but they're reporters, and they're at least reporting (although I don't agree that it was newsworthy or necessary). As to Rove, though, if he turns out to be the source, it would solidify my belief that this woman was outed -- ending her career, putting her in danger, and endangering the lives and missions of other undercover operatives with whom she worked -- purely as political payback for her husband's criticism of the adminstration.

I can't think of a strong enough adjective to describe this. "Treason" is a start, but it really doesn't fully capture it.

It doesn't matter, though. I'm sure Rove has some explanation cooked up, or he wouldn't have given Cooper the green light to turn over the docs. He, like his boss, will get off free and clear...

#446287Post 4 of 38

Re: Rove implicated in Plame outing

toasty, they, along with thier editors, in the end, are the ones who put it to print. :?

#446292Post 5 of 38

Re: Rove implicated in Plame outing

^^ Fair enough. But they wouldn't have had shit to write about in the absence of someone telling them in the first place. It would be ridiculous for Rove (or anyone) to tell a [b]reporter[/b] something under the condition of anonymity and [b]not[/b] expect it to make its way into print.

I'm not excusing the reporters. In fact, I don't understand why Novak isn't having his feet held to the fire as well -- perhaps he is, and we just haven't heard about it yet. I agree 100% that treason is an entirely appropriate way to describe their actions.

The root problem, however, in my mind, is not so much that it was printed but that it was leaked in the first place. We can't have people at any level of the administration disseminating this type of information to anyone that doesn't need to know, period. That it could turn out to be Bush's chief strategist puts it in a whole different light. It shows a gross lack of respect for the men and women in the intelligence community who give up so much for their country -- their identity, their private life, their safety -- and it is indicative of the reckless bravado that has put us where we find ourselves now on a global scale.

#446296Post 6 of 38

Re: Rove implicated in Plame outing

These reporters DID NOT put Plame's name into print. Novak is the one who printed it. The information was leaked to a number of other reporters (including Cooper and the one who went to jail) who did not put it into print.

#446298Post 7 of 38

Re: Rove implicated in Plame outing

[quote=pacific493]These reporters DID NOT put Plame's name into print. Novak is the one who printed it. The information was leaked to a number of other reporters (including Cooper and the one who went to jail) who did not put it into print.[/quote]

good to know, thanks for the clarification. I had wondered about that, because I had only ever heard of Novak printing her name.

#446413Post 8 of 38

Re: Rove implicated in Plame outing

[quote=thesightless]toasty, they, along with thier editors, in the end, are the ones who put it to print. :?[/quote]

Sometimes you are just unreal dude.

Its OK to TELL a reporter the name of an undercover CIA agent, who is working on WMD's, but its NOT OK to use that info in a newspaper?

Please tell me you are joking.

Think about that again: Rove "outed" a active, undercover, CIA agent, who was working on WMD's. This was done during wartime- a war which was sold on WMD's.

Please tell me you are joking.

#447348Post 9 of 38

Re: Rove implicated in Plame outing

At long last, the press appears to be calling the Bush Administration on some of its bullshit. Did anyone see the brow-beating McClellan received at the hands of the press on the Rove issue?

Transcript:

[url]http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/07/20050711-3.html[/url]

About fucking time.

#447352Post 10 of 38

Re: Rove implicated in Plame outing

And one more thing -- I happened to stumble upon the elder Bush's thoughts on the topic. Couldn't have put it better myself:

[quote]"We need more human intelligence. That means we need more protection for the methods we use to gather intelligence and more protection for our sources, particularly our human sources, people that are risking their lives for their country. Even though I'm a tranquil guy now at this stage of my life, I have nothing but contempt and anger for those who betray the trust by exposing the name of our sources. They are, in my view, the most insidious, of traitors." - George H.W. Bush, April 16, 1999, Dedication Speech, George Bush Center for Intelligence[/quote]

#447373Post 11 of 38

Re: Rove implicated in Plame outing

this pic is funny....

[img]http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/afp/20050710/capt.sge.kvj32.100705203616.photo00.photo.default-279x380.jpg[/img]

#447376Post 12 of 38

Re: Rove implicated in Plame outing

[quote=toasty]At long last, the press appears to be calling the Bush Administration on some of its bullshit. Did anyone see the brow-beating McClellan received at the hands of the press on the Rove issue?

Transcript:

[url]http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/07/20050711-3.html[/url]

About fucking time.[/quote]

McClellan comes out as a total sucker in that transcript, lol....

#447383Post 13 of 38

Re: Rove implicated in Plame outing

[quote=Yao][quote=toasty]At long last, the press appears to be calling the Bush Administration on some of its bullshit. Did anyone see the brow-beating McClellan received at the hands of the press on the Rove issue?

Transcript:

[url]http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/07/20050711-3.html[/url]

About fucking time.[/quote]

McClellan comes out as a total sucker in that transcript, lol....[/quote]

Im really looking forward to seeing this investigation unfold. If there is a traitor in the administration, they need to be dealt with swiftly.

#447386Post 14 of 38

Re: Rove implicated in Plame outing

im not unreal, so fack off. you just dont do that. never should have happened and we are lucky it didnt blow up into something big, like the agent getting picked up or killed. all they had to do was keep it out of the press and use a fake name. stupidity on the editors behalf all the way.

your unreal, i mean honestly, are you the type of person who visits mike moore's website on a daily basis for your news and opinion? quit living in a delusional world where everything is evil if it doesnt agree with you. its common sense and general knowledge that they shouldnt have printed it. i put blame on that fat tub rove too, but in the end, all they had to do was use a fake name if they were that hard pressed to get the story in. jeez, we protect the rights of criminals behind bars, we couldnt excercise some sensibilities?

#447392Post 15 of 38

Re: Rove implicated in Plame outing

I like the fact that Bush has nicknamed Rove: "Turd Blossom."

#447394Post 16 of 38

Re: Rove implicated in Plame outing

lmao. he should just openly question rove, then fire the guy.

also, he should call rove daddy for what rove pulled off in the election.

#447435Post 17 of 38

Re: Rove implicated in Plame outing

[quote=thesightless]we are lucky it didnt blow up into something big, like the agent getting picked up or killed[/quote]

Actually, I did hear rumblings about one of our undercover agents being killed aborad following Plame's outing, but I haven't been able to find anything more about it, so who knows. Regardless of whether anyone has actually suffered any bodily harm is irrelevant to me, though -- that the obvious potential for such harm was disregarded is what I find so offensive.

#447437Post 18 of 38

Re: Rove implicated in Plame outing

[quote=thesightless]lmao. he should just openly question rove, then fire the guy.

also, he should call rove daddy for what rove pulled off in the election.[/quote]

There's about as much likelihood of that as pigs flying out of my butt...the only way Rove leaves the WH is if he's indicted.

#447439Post 19 of 38

Re: Rove implicated in Plame outing

[quote=pacific493]the only way Rove leaves the WH is if he's indicted.[/quote]

Doubtful, at least based upon what is in the public eye. As a tangent, I've been listening to some conservative talk radio over the last couple days on this topic, and the focus seems to be on two points:

  1. That all signs suggest that Rove didn't actually break the law because he didn't use Plame's [b]name[/b].

  2. That Plame's identity was well-known and that she wasn't really all that undercover anyway.

To the first point, I say big fucking deal. Whether or not what Rove did was technically illegal within the terms of a pretty tightly worded statute is a red herring. The disclosure of information that would make it easy to discover her identity is what is really at issue.

To the second point, I'm calling bullshit. I've yet to hear anyone provide anything to back up this suggestion at all -- just bald statements by people that, I suspect, had never heard the name Valerie Plame before all of this broke way back when...

Bush would be smart to suck it up and fire Rove. Keeping him on will only fuel the fire.

For example, McClellan got whipped during his daily briefing again today:

[url]http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/07/20050712-4.html[/url]

#447450Post 20 of 38

Re: Rove implicated in Plame outing

I've heard the same two lines coming from conservative message boards today. I've pressed on the "Plame's identity was blown before Novak" argument and no one could offer any credible evidence to support this. On the first argument, that's just a bunch of crap...I don't know how the statute is worded, but if they're really going to hang their hat on the argument that Rove is in the clear because he didn't use Plame's name, they're desperate. Shit, he said that she was Wilson's wife...unless he's a Utah-style polygamist, I'm guessing that's a club of one.

#447602Post 21 of 38

Re: Rove implicated in Plame outing

Speaking of leaks, it looks like the RNC's talking points on this issue have made their way in to the public eye as well...

[img]http://rawstory2.com/images/other/rovetalk1.jpg[/img]

[img]http://rawstory2.com/images/other/rovetalk2.gif[/img]

[img]http://rawstory2.com/images/other/rovetalk3.gif[/img]

[img]http://rawstory2.com/images/other/rovetalk4.gif[/img]

[img]http://rawstory2.com/images/other/rovetalk5.gif[/img]

Again, the strategy looks to be misdirection (does it really matter who sent Wilson to Niger? isn't the bigger issue the content of his conclusions?) and misleading statements.

What exactly is with the suggestion that the CIA, as opposed to someone in the Bush administration, sent Wilson to Niger? Are the CIA's interests not aligned with those of the country? Does the CIA regularly send folks on intercontinental boondoggles with no real purpose? Was Wilson's trip to Niger just a vacation sponsored by his wife? It's all just absurd.

Of important note, there is no direct response to the charge of Rove leaking information. Given the neocon technique (perfected by Rove) of shifting the message/focus when there is a problem, the absence of a denial is really all I need to hear...

#447635Post 22 of 38

Re: Rove implicated in Plame outing

from the WSJ...

[quote]Karl Rove, Whistleblower He told the truth about Joe Wilson.

Wednesday, July 13, 2005 12:01 a.m. EDT

Democrats and most of the Beltway press corps are baying for Karl Rove's head over his role in exposing a case of CIA nepotism involving Joe Wilson and his wife, Valerie Plame. On the contrary, we'd say the White House political guru deserves a prize--perhaps the next iteration of the "Truth-Telling" award that The Nation magazine bestowed upon Mr. Wilson before the Senate Intelligence Committee exposed him as a fraud.

For Mr. Rove is turning out to be the real "whistleblower" in this whole sorry pseudo-scandal. He's the one who warned Time's Matthew Cooper and other reporters to be wary of Mr. Wilson's credibility. He's the one who told the press the truth that Mr. Wilson had been recommended for the CIA consulting gig by his wife, not by Vice President Dick Cheney as Mr. Wilson was asserting on the airwaves. In short, Mr. Rove provided important background so Americans could understand that Mr. Wilson wasn't a whistleblower but was a partisan trying to discredit the Iraq War in an election campaign. Thank you, Mr. Rove.

Media chants aside, there's no evidence that Mr. Rove broke any laws in telling reporters that Ms. Plame may have played a role in her husband's selection for a 2002 mission to investigate reports that Iraq was seeking uranium ore in Niger. To be prosecuted under the 1982 Intelligence Identities Protection Act, Mr. Rove would had to have deliberately and maliciously exposed Ms. Plame knowing that she was an undercover agent and using information he'd obtained in an official capacity. But it appears Mr. Rove didn't even know Ms. Plame's name and had only heard about her work at Langley from other journalists.

On the "no underlying crime" point, moreover, no less than the New York Times and Washington Post now agree. So do the 36 major news organizations that filed a legal brief in March aimed at keeping Mr. Cooper and the New York Times's Judith Miller out of jail.

"While an investigation of the leak was justified, it is far from clear--at least on the public record--that a crime took place," the Post noted the other day. Granted the media have come a bit late to this understanding, and then only to protect their own, but the logic of their argument is that Mr. Rove did nothing wrong either.

The same can't be said for Mr. Wilson, who first "outed" himself as a CIA consultant in a melodramatic New York Times op-ed in July 2003. At the time he claimed to have thoroughly debunked the Iraq-Niger yellowcake uranium connection that President Bush had mentioned in his now famous "16 words" on the subject in that year's State of the Union address. Mr. Wilson also vehemently denied it when columnist Robert Novak first reported that his wife had played a role in selecting him for the Niger mission. He promptly signed up as adviser to the Kerry campaign and was feted almost everywhere in the media, including repeat appearances on NBC's "Meet the Press" and a photo spread (with Valerie) in Vanity Fair.

But his day in the political sun was short-lived. The bipartisan Senate Intelligence Committee report last July cited the note that Ms. Plame had sent recommending her husband for the Niger mission. "Interviews and documents provided to the Committee indicate that his wife, a CPD [Counterproliferation Division] employee, suggested his name for the trip," said the report.

The same bipartisan report also pointed out that the forged documents Mr. Wilson claimed to have discredited hadn't even entered intelligence channels until eight months after his trip. And it said the CIA interpreted the information he provided in his debrief as mildly supportive of the suspicion that Iraq had been seeking uranium in Niger.

About the same time, another inquiry headed by Britain's Lord Butler delivered its own verdict on the 16 words: "We conclude also that the statement in President Bush's State of the Union Address of 28 January 2003 that 'The British Government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa' was well-founded."

In short, Joe Wilson hadn't told the truth about what he'd discovered in Africa, how he'd discovered it, what he'd told the CIA about it, or even why he was sent on the mission. The media and the Kerry campaign promptly abandoned him, though the former never did give as much prominence to his debunking as they did to his original accusations. But if anyone can remember another public figure so entirely and thoroughly discredited, let us know.

If there's any scandal at all here, it is that this entire episode has been allowed to waste so much government time and media attention, not to mention inspire a "special counsel" probe. The Bush Administration is also guilty on this count, since it went along with the appointment of prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald in an election year in order to punt the issue down the road. But now Mr. Fitzgerald has become an unguided missile, holding reporters in contempt for not disclosing their sources even as it becomes clearer all the time that no underlying crime was at issue. As for the press corps, rather than calling for Mr. Rove to be fired, they ought to be grateful to him for telling the truth.[/quote]

#447648Post 23 of 38

Re: Rove implicated in Plame outing

^^Pretty much tracks those RNC talking points nicely, eh? Even threw in the part about Wilson supporting Kerry for president. Of course, as far as Wilson is concerned, someone in Bush's adminstration ended his wife's career and put her in danger -- if I were him, that might light a fire under me to actively do my part to get his ass out of office as well...

Since the RNC seems to be focusing so much on Wilson's assertion that Cheney sent him to Niger, it's probably worth seeing his statement in the proper context:

[url]http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0308/03/le.00.html[/url]

[quote]BLITZER: I know you were sent to go on this mission long before the State of the Union Address. When Condoleezza Rice, the president's national security adviser, was on this program a few weeks ago, on July 13th, I asked her about your mission. Listen to this exchange I had with her.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. CONDOLEEZZA RICE, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: I didn't know Joe Wilson was going to Niger. And if you look in Director Tenet's statement, it says that counter-proliferation experts, on their own initiative, sent Joe Wilson. So, I don't know...

BLITZER: Who sent him?

RICE: Well, it was certainly not at a level that had anything to do with the White House.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Is that true?

WILSON: [b]Well, look, it's absolutely true that neither the vice president nor Dr. Rice nor even George Tenet knew that I was traveling to Niger.[/b]

What they did, what the office of the vice president did, and, in fact, I believe now from Mr. Libby's statement, it was probably the vice president himself...

BLITZER: Scooter Libby is the chief of staff for the vice president.

WILSON: Scooter Libby.

They asked essentially that we follow up on this report -- that the agency follow up on the report. So it was a question that went to the CIA briefer from the Office of the Vice President. The CIA, at the operational level, made a determination that the best way to answer this serious question was to send somebody out there who knew something about both the uranium business and those Niger officials that were in office at the time these reported documents were executed.[/quote]

Of course, the sentence in bold is never included in any RNC discussion of the topic.

Again, though, does it really matter if what Rove did qualifies as a crime? Does it really matter who sent Wilson to Niger? This, to me, seems like hypertechnical sqabbling and, again, misdirection and subject changing...

#447650Post 24 of 38

Re: Rove implicated in Plame outing

Hmmm, wonder if Rob still thinks that republicans don't defend themselves or attack anyone else?

#447651Post 25 of 38

Re: Rove implicated in Plame outing

[quote=Jenks]If there's any scandal at all here, it is that this entire episode has been allowed to waste so much government time and media attention.[/quote]

That could be said for about 90% of whats gone on in D.C. for the last 10 years.

#447670Post 26 of 38

[quote]Of course, as far as Wilson is concerned, someone in Bush's adminstration ended his wife's career and put her in danger -- if I were him, that might light a fire under me to actively do my part to get his ass out of office as well...[/quote]

Damn straight. Nobody messes with your woman and gets away with it.

#447673Post 27 of 38

Re: Rove implicated in Plame outing

There's also a different aspect to this. The Bush admin attacked Wilson by going after his WIFE. What a bunch of wusses...using a guy's family to get to him because he's pissed you off.

#447708Post 28 of 38

Another day, another McClellan stonewalling...

[url]http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/07/20050713-7.html[/url]

Not quite as satisfying, I'm afraid. I don't think he was prepared for the onslaught he got on day 1 or even day 2. McClellan's prepared for it now...

#447731Post 29 of 38

Re: Rove implicated in Plame outing

[img]http://www.burnlab.net/blog/uploaded_images/13cnd-rove.184-776935.jpg[/img]

hahaha.

#447732Post 30 of 38

^^nice.

:lol:

#447976Post 31 of 38

Re: Rove implicated in Plame outing

[quote=pacific493]Hmmm, wonder if Rob still thinks that republicans don't defend themselves or attack anyone else?[/quote]

Well, its about time. And they needed to speak up on this apparently. Looks like to me, the democrats are only trying to dig up dirt in whatever way they can, and this one will not stick either.

I really haven't been keeping up with it much lately, but some of the points I have heard are that there is a web site ( anyone know of it? ) which had stated that she worked for the CIA, and it was mentioned on this web site well before Rove did or said whatever he may have said. Also, he apparently didn't break any laws by what he said, or did.

Well, forgive me, I'm a bit ignorant on this one, as I am having some harddrive sticking computer problems, and my time has been devoted elsewhere this week.

#447977Post 32 of 38

Re: Rove implicated in Plame outing

[quote=toasty][quote=pacific493]the only way Rove leaves the WH is if he's indicted.[/quote]

Doubtful, at least based upon what is in the public eye. As a tangent, I've been listening to some conservative talk radio over the last couple days on this topic, and the focus seems to be on two points:

  1. That all signs suggest that Rove didn't actually break the law because he didn't use Plame's [b]name[/b].

  2. That Plame's identity was well-known and that she wasn't really all that undercover anyway.

To the first point, I say big fucking deal. Whether or not what Rove did was technically illegal within the terms of a pretty tightly worded statute is a red herring. The disclosure of information that would make it easy to discover her identity is what is really at issue.

To the second point, I'm calling bullshit. I've yet to hear anyone provide anything to back up this suggestion at all -- just bald statements by people that, I suspect, had never heard the name Valerie Plame before all of this broke way back when...

Bush would be smart to suck it up and fire Rove. Keeping him on will only fuel the fire.

For example, McClellan got whipped during his daily briefing again today:

[url]http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/07/20050712-4.html[/url][/quote]

Well, toasty, I give you credit ( and the others for the opposing views posted in the above thread ) for even showing some of the discussion out there at this time.

Bush will not lie down to these attacks, he won't fire Rove unless someone can come up with credible evidence of his wrong doing.

If her job was not secretive, and it was well known by others, and it had been mentioned on a website earlier, I really wonder what the big deal is? Apparently she went to Langley daily. Doesn't sound to top secret to me.

But again, I haven't been keeping up with it much, so forgive me.

#448039Post 33 of 38

Re: Rove implicated in Plame outing

[quote=robprunzit][quote=pacific493]Hmmm, wonder if Rob still thinks that republicans don't defend themselves or attack anyone else?[/quote]

Well, its about time. And they needed to speak up on this apparently. Looks like to me, the democrats are only trying to dig up dirt in whatever way they can, and this one will not stick either.

I really haven't been keeping up with it much lately, but some of the points I have heard are that there is a web site ( anyone know of it? ) which had stated that she worked for the CIA, and it was mentioned on this web site well before Rove did or said whatever he may have said. Also, he apparently didn't break any laws by what he said, or did.

Well, forgive me, I'm a bit ignorant on this one, as I am having some harddrive sticking computer problems, and my time has been devoted elsewhere this week.[/quote]

Rob,

I think you're one of the only people who thinks that the republicans are just getting around to going on the attack.

There have been rumors floating around that Plame's identity was known prior to Rove's conversation with Cooper, but nothing has been substantiated. My understanding is that Andrea Mitchell was one of the main sources.

Whether he broke any laws remains to be seen. There has been a lot of dissembling by republicans on this point (i.e. he didn't violate the statute because he didn't say her name, he didn't call Cooper, he didn't etc. etc.). Fitzgerald will have a hard time proving a violation of the secret identity statute...if Rove is indicated, my money is on an obstruction or perjury charge.

#448040Post 34 of 38

Re: Rove implicated in Plame outing

[quote]If her job was not secretive, and it was well known by others, and it had been mentioned on a website earlier, I really wonder what the big deal is? Apparently she went to Langley daily. Doesn't sound to top secret to me.[/quote]

It's been mentioned on a lot of partisan conservative websites, but I've yet to see any good credible evidence of it. Just lot's of speculation and conjecture.

#448128Post 35 of 38

Re: Rove implicated in Plame outing

[quote=robprunzit] If her job was not secretive, and it was well known by others, and it had been mentioned on a website earlier, I really wonder what the big deal is? Apparently she went to Langley daily. Doesn't sound to top secret to me. [/quote]

Again, I heard a lot of reference to this, particularly early on, but I haven't heard it from any credible source and haven't seen any evidence to back it up of any sort. I suspect that this was the drum beat initially, but as it became apparent that it didn't hold any water, the right stopped harping on it as much and shifted the focus to the current position, that Rove didn't commit a crime and that he was just trying to prevent Cooper from printing an incorrect story.

To the world, Valerie Plame worked for Brewster-Jennings & Associates as an energy consultant, an energy company now known to be a CIA front. According to Larry Johnson, a classmate of hers at the CIA, she was what is known as "non-official cover," which means that she was not acknowledged by the US Government as an employee, did not travel with a diplomatic passport (as "official cover" operatives do -- it protects them if caught) and would be executed if caught.

Of course, Larry is pretty pissed that she was outed, is one of the folks at the CIA who pushed for the investigation of the source of the leak, and now appears regularly as a source for "liberal" blogs and talk shows (although he wasn't an openly partisan person before all of this, having served under Reagan, Bush 41, Clinton, and Bush 43) on this topic, so I suspect most Rove-apologists discount everything he has to say, but there you go.

Here's a way to fairly easy cut through the haze, though -- there has been a criminal investigation ongoing for many months now over whether a crime has been committed. Of the elements of the crime, whether Valerie was or was not classified as a covert operative offers the least wiggle room in terms of subjectivity and area for discussion. Either she was or she wasn't, and the answer to that question would almost certainly be answered at the very outset of the investigation. Moreover, you wouldn't expect the CIA, whose interests are obviously very much aligned with those of the country and the administration, to needlessly insist on an investigation of the outing of someone who was openly working for the CIA. That the investigation has reached this point makes it pretty clear to me that the argument that she wasn't really covert lacks credibility.

Sounds to me like more of the work of the RNC misinformation and propaganda machine -- make a suggestion without support or evidence (that maybe she wasn't covert), get people talking about it, and the more people talk about it, the more credibility it gets. Eventually, people assume it is true because there's so much discussion about it, even through there isn't a shred of evidence to back it up. Credit where credit is due, it works for them, but I'm hoping that the masses finally wise up this time and start looking behind the sound bites.

#452502Post 36 of 38

Evidently, Bloomberg is planning on running a story, probably later today, that indicates that Rove's testimony that he learned Plame's identity from Robert Novak, "differs" from Novak's testimony on that point, although who knows what "differs" means. Scooter Libby's testimony that he learned Plame's identity from Tim Russert, however, was flatly denied by Russert.

Interesting to see how this develops -- I'll try to find the story and post it once it breaks...

#452525Post 37 of 38

Re: Rove implicated in Plame outing

Here it is:

[url]http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=aY51e404Lx_8&refer=us[/url]

Highlights:

[quote][b]Rove, Libby Accounts on Plame Differ With Reporters' [/b]

July 22 (Bloomberg) -- Two top White House aides have given accounts to a special prosecutor about how reporters first told them the identity of a CIA agent that are at odds with what the reporters have said, according to people familiar with the case.

Lewis ``Scooter'' Libby, Vice President Dick Cheney's chief of staff, told special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald that he first learned from NBC News reporter Tim Russert of the identity of Central Intelligence Agency operative Valerie Plame, the wife of former ambassador and Bush administration critic Joseph Wilson, one person said. Russert has testified before Fitzgerald that he didn't tell Libby of Plame's identity, the person said.

White House Deputy Chief of Staff Karl Rove told Fitzgerald that he first learned the identity of the CIA agent from syndicated columnist Robert Novak, according to a person familiar with the matter. Novak, who was first to report Plame's name and connection to Wilson, has given a somewhat different version to the special prosecutor, the person said.

These discrepancies may be important because Fitzgerald is investigating whether Libby, Rove or other administration officials made false statements during the course of the investigation. The Plame case has its genesis in whether anyone violated a 1982 law making it illegal to knowingly reveal the name of a covert intelligence agent. [/quote]

not much more detail, but there ya go...

#454288Post 38 of 38

Re: Rove implicated in Plame outing

[url]http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/laws/iipa.html[/url]

that should help. 1982 law on protecting secret information and those who leak it.

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