Re: Britain leaves EU

[QUOTE=Claire Taurus;1187642]It was funny listening to people complaining about immigration, when they were never affected by it on a personal level at all.[/QUOTE]

i feel like this 'brexit' (hate that term but whatever) thing is very similar to what is happening in the US, so i will opine on my view from this side of the pond on the US..

the poor/lower middle class are affected by immigration due to immigrants wanting to assimilate and thus working more harder hours for less pay.. to which the corporate suits are happy about. this combined with the poor/middle class inability to afford decent schooling above high school (or sometimes 2-year college) level which leads to the inability to retrain themselves for other jobs or industries, they are unable to move. thus, this is all aggregated into a feeling (personal responsibility out the door) of being pushed out and given up by the government and also the rise of racial prejudices.

social bigotry (# of reasons but mostly due to religious interpretation) only plays into this like puzzle pieces that were meant to fit together. the fucking politicians know this and are playing the card perfectly, eg. the birth of Drumpf.

Re: Britain leaves EU

[QUOTE=ddr;1187696]i feel like this 'brexit' (hate that term but whatever) thing is very similar to what is happening in the US, so i will opine on my view from this side of the pond on the US..

the poor/lower middle class are affected by immigration due to immigrants wanting to assimilate and thus working more harder hours for less pay.. to which the corporate suits are happy about. this combined with the poor/middle class inability to afford decent schooling above high school (or sometimes 2-year college) level which leads to the inability to retrain themselves for other jobs or industries, they are unable to move. thus, this is all aggregated into a feeling (personal responsibility out the door) of being pushed out and given up by the government and also the rise of racial prejudices.

social bigotry (# of reasons but mostly due to religious interpretation) only plays into this like puzzle pieces that were meant to fit together. the fucking politicians know this and are playing the card perfectly, eg. the birth of Drumpf.[/QUOTE]

couldn't agree more to be honest

Re: Britain leaves EU

[QUOTE=Donny Concrete;1187694]You don't say....[/QUOTE]

:lol:

Re: Britain leaves EU

thank you leave.... you were told this but didn't listen..."WE GOT OUR COUNTRY BACK"

[url="http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/27/brussels-rejects-boris-johnson-pipe-dream-over-single-market-access"]Brussels rejects Boris Johnson 'pipe dream' over single market access | Politics | The Guardian[/url]

Re: Britain leaves EU

[url="http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/27/eu-referendum-reality-check-leave-campaign-promises"]The leave campaign made three key promises – are they keeping them? | Politics | The Guardian[/url]

Re: Britain leaves EU

To me, it really seemed like a lot of the populace of the UK were getting fed up with referendums and elections, and wanted a simple solution to a problem that was pretty complex with no easy explanations and prone to a lot of misinformation, exaggeration and hyperbole from each side. I think it doesn't help that there's a rising anti-intellectual movement that feels like they know more than the experts, based upon either their narcissistic idea that how they feel is more valuable than actually being informed of the consequences of their actions.

I am pretty amused how the guys that were responsible for pushing the leave vote are backpeddling furiously on the platform promises that they knew they couldn't deliver on.

This was a really stupid, self inflicted wound the older citizens inflicted on themselves and the younger generation. Evidence is probably best shown with how the UK just lost their triple A credit rating today.

Re: Britain leaves EU

that's the company virgin lost a 3rd of it's value been reported, bet branson is furious

Re: Britain leaves EU

Interesting commentary from a few days ago on the political positioning going on:

[quote] If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.

Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.

With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.

How?

Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.

And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legistlation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew.

The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.

The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?

Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?

Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-maneouvered and check-mated.

If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.

The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.

When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.

All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.

[/quote]

Re: Britain leaves EU

another good piece:

[url="http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/28/opinion/marine-le-pen-after-brexit-the-peoples-spring-is-inevitable.html"]Log In - The New York Times[/url]

Re: Britain leaves EU

it's all very...

[IMG]http://i66.tinypic.com/1433xuv.gif[/IMG]

Re: Britain leaves EU

[QUOTE=thebanned1;1187791]that's the company virgin lost a 3rd of it's value been reported, bet branson is furious[/QUOTE]

That´s really a bad thing.. Again, eventually someone will pay for this new reality and you can bet Branson won't be one of them. In the end, rich people always win.

Re: Britain leaves EU

[QUOTE=AchtungBaby!;1187812]That´s really a bad thing.. Again, eventually someone will pay for this new reality and you can bet Branson won't be one of them. In the end, rich people always win.[/QUOTE]

doesn't matter if he's rich or not, that is irrelevant here, what really matters is he's a job creator right across the country and has just been forced to cancel a plan to create 3000 jobs due to brexit

Re: Britain leaves EU

[url="http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/richard-branson-reveals-virgin-has-lost-a-third-of-its-value-since-brexit_uk_5772657be4b0d257114a5bb0?5624e2yq9pjyycik9"]Richard Branson Reveals Virgin Has Lost A THIRD Of Its Value Since Brexit[/url]

Re: Britain leaves EU

[QUOTE=thebanned1;1187816]doesn't matter if he's rich or not, that is irrelevant here, what really matters is he's a job creator right across the country and has just been forced to cancel a plan to create 3000 jobs due to brexit[/QUOTE]

I think it's pretty relevant since rich people like him wont lose.. Before losing, he will not create jobs as you say... He will do that and everything he can (and powerful people like him can do a lot) to preserve his company - fortune or whatever you want to call it, and sooner or later he will achieve his objectives.

Needless to say who are now and will be the most affected.. just for start, 3000 people are already "paying" brexit .. Branson is already controlling brexit damage.

Re: Britain leaves EU

[QUOTE=AchtungBaby!;1187820]I think it's pretty relevant since rich people like him wont lose.. Before losing, he will not create jobs as you say... He will do that and everything he can (and powerful people like him can do a lot) to preserve his company - fortune or whatever you want to call it, and sooner or later he will achieve his objectives.[/quote]

that's a scary thought, i,m with virgin for my broadband, don't want to see a price increase..

i think a lot of people like him ( business types ) have a lot to loose, i saw one guy ( can't remember who he is ) loose 900 M from his fortune straight after the vote

[quote]Needless to say who are now and will be the most affected.. just for start, 3000 people are already "paying" brexit .. Branson is already controlling brexit damage.[/QUOTE]

the thing is, the more guys like this are hit hard by this then the likely hood is that people will loose their jobs which also hits the amount of tax paid into the system, no one has really planned for an exit

Re: Britain leaves EU

[video=youtube;AcC6t_NP94M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcC6t_NP94M[/video]

Re: Britain leaves EU

^"pornhub" and all porn is so stupid, why this video was uploaded and then advertised on social media is the height of stupidity.

Thanks Jenks for the post

Re: Britain leaves EU

because you must admit, although there is a serious side to it it's also funny

Re: Britain leaves EU

[QUOTE=Jenks;1187807]another good piece:

[URL="http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/28/opinion/marine-le-pen-after-brexit-the-peoples-spring-is-inevitable.html"]Log In - The New York Times[/URL][/QUOTE]

great article especially due to the fact that britain has now given a strong voice to people like these

[video=youtube;lo3ldSEavQg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lo3ldSEavQg[/video]

[video=youtube;wO_Un-lKwPM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wO_Un-lKwPM[/video]

[video=youtube;PFBbzh7Y0Iw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFBbzh7Y0Iw[/video]

great article indeed, not

Re: Britain leaves EU

That kid yelling at the man twice his size reminds me of someone on MS. :lol:

Re: Britain leaves EU

[QUOTE=el presidente Highsteppa;1187776]To me, it really seemed like a lot of the populace of the UK were getting fed up with referendums and elections, and wanted a simple solution to a problem that was pretty complex with no easy explanations and prone to a lot of misinformation, exaggeration and hyperbole from each side. I think it doesn't help that there's a rising anti-intellectual movement that feels like they know more than the experts, based upon either their narcissistic idea that how they feel is more valuable than actually being informed of the consequences of their actions.

I am pretty amused how the guys that were responsible for pushing the leave vote are backpeddling furiously on the platform promises that they knew they couldn't deliver on.

This was a really stupid, self inflicted wound the older citizens inflicted on themselves and the younger generation. Evidence is probably best shown with how the UK just lost their triple A credit rating today.[/QUOTE] Well if the younger generation had actually come out and voted they might have got what they wanted.

Re: Britain leaves EU

[QUOTE=Jenks;1187807]another good piece:

[URL="http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/28/opinion/marine-le-pen-after-brexit-the-peoples-spring-is-inevitable.html"]Log In - The New York Times[/URL][/QUOTE]

No.

Re: Britain leaves EU

wasn't necessarily agreeing with it, but that's the sentiment out there and with Marine La Pin having a fighting change, France's EU referendum could be up next.

shit is crumbling. how amazingly fragile everything is.

Re: Britain leaves EU

unfortunately it is heavily biased in favour of this being a great thing without even touching the reality or consequences of this actually happening, if this story is anything to go by then the NY times is living in a complete fantasy world

Re: Britain leaves EU

[url="http://www.pri.org/stories/2016-06-28/brussels-brexit-looks-lot-kabuki-theater"]From Brussels, Brexit looks a lot like Kabuki theater | Public Radio International[/url]

Re: Britain leaves EU

[QUOTE=floridaorange;1187985][URL="http://www.pri.org/stories/2016-06-28/brussels-brexit-looks-lot-kabuki-theater"]From Brussels, Brexit looks a lot like Kabuki theater | Public Radio International[/URL][/QUOTE]

Never heard of Kabuki theater metaphor before and agree pretty much with everything. Good one.

Would say it looks like the first phase of populism (first world populism in this case) .. A perverse mechanism used by politicians that sounds good (specially for those in need) but extremelly difficult to put in practice.. if not impossible.

Appealing populism is very common in southamerica and it cyclically get success from politicians because people is sick of big bussines, media and hegemonic groups, etc. Years later, people get sick of politicians (who at least in southamerica they all end up as thiefs and corrupt when they get full power) and the cicle starts again.

Thats why Trump is a mistery to me.. A filthy rich business man appealing neo fascist populism and not a few people believe his crap of making america great again.. He has the worst of both sides.

Re: Britain leaves EU

^Cautionary tale to be sure... as a long side note in response to your comment about populism, Trump and the US, I really do hope America is not headed in that direction. I think populism has a tribalism component to it as well, which has been brewing strongly since the Bush administration I think. That administration really cut out a lot of the social care parts of our society, which signaled to a lot of America that money was more important than people. And fuck that by the way. But Trump has been digging his own campaigns grave now for months, and will be impossible to dig himself out of it. I think our country is actually slowly on the right track as far as the collective consciousness goes. I guess living close to this last horrendous attack on a night club and witnessing the community come together and it still is has given me new hope in the midst of all the darkness.

Re: Britain leaves EU

^^ How many communities have to keep "coming together" before America wakes up ??

Re: Britain leaves EU

2 things that are completely hilarious about this whole thing 1) the leave campaign now deleting speeches and promises made from their website simply because they can't deliver on their promises and 2) the fact that leave voters are calling remainers thick as pig shit for voting remain yet they feel for shit like "points style immigration policy and closed borders", then the leave campaign tells them AFTER the vote that they have no "plan" to implement the things they promised in their campaign and then they handed over that responsibility to the government in office ( btw 90% of whom happened to be in favor of remain ), "they are the ones that should of planned for this".... who's the ones that are thick as pig shit here ?

Re: Britain leaves EU

[url="http://www.pri.org/stories/2016-06-24/heres-how-brexit-vote-will-affect-america"]Here's how the Brexit vote will affect America | Public Radio International[/url]

Re: Britain leaves EU

Let's face it. The EU is a monster. They are now planning to give 62 Billion to Africa. European people have worked hard for that money, and now politicians are simply throwing it away. This sh*t is why people want to leave the EU.

EXPECT THUNDERSTORMS !!

Re: Britain leaves EU

[QUOTE=barski;1188158]Let's face it. The EU is a monster. They are now planning to give 62 Billion to Africa. European people have worked hard for that money, and now politicians are simply throwing it away. This sh*t is why people want to leave the EU.

EXPECT THUNDERSTORMS !![/QUOTE]

Sure.. African people can starve later.

I would not say whole Europe but specifically the British empire took whatever they need from Africa across centuries of fairly cruel domination and submission.. The results of that behaviour are very clear and no one seems to care much.. "throwing it away" help is the less Europe can do for such a devastated continent with direct incidence because of their politics.

Europe could chose not to squeeze to the limit all the resources in Africa but they chose to do it anyway... By now big part of african people dont have water, starve to death and die for ridiculous diseases, but people yells for the crumbles Europe might send to them.

Unbelievable.

Re: Britain leaves EU

Yeah, there's no water and food at all, yet somehow Africans manage to grow up to perfectly healthy adults, only to jump in a boat when they're 25. :lol:

Re: Britain leaves EU

Doubt that ^^

for instance: [url="http://www.unicef.org/media/media_27680.html"]5,500 children die in Eastern and Southern Africa every day | Press centre | UNICEF[/url]

Re: Britain leaves EU

That was in 2005.

But the boats are coming, from Africa and from Asia as well. So, in fact, Europe is solving other continent's problems. I'm sure frau Merkel had some boats ready to send to the UK.. ;) Brexit was just in time.

On a more serious note: Does Africa needs help? Yes! Who's helping? Europe. is the USA helping? is Argentina helping?

Re: Britain leaves EU

[QUOTE=barski;1188277] On a more serious note: Does Africa needs help? Yes! Who's helping? Europe. is the USA helping? is Argentina helping?[/QUOTE]

Will barski do his own research?

Re: Britain leaves EU

lol @ "is the USA helping?"....The United States is the most charitable country in the world, we should be, we have the most money.

Re: Britain leaves EU

that's nice, but the "help" in the Middle East could use an adjustment.

Re: Britain leaves EU

[QUOTE=barski;1188277]That was in 2005.

But the boats are coming, from Africa and from Asia as well. So, in fact, Europe is solving other continent's problems. I'm sure frau Merkel had some boats ready to send to the UK.. ;) Brexit was just in time.

On a more serious note: Does Africa needs help? Yes! Who's helping? Europe. is the USA helping? is Argentina helping?[/QUOTE]

[url="http://www.afro.who.int/en/clusters-a-programmes/frh/child-and-adolescent-health/programme-components/child-health.html"]Child health - WHO | Regional Office for Africa[/url]

Re: Britain leaves EU

[QUOTE=DIDI;1188084]^^ How many communities have to keep "coming together" before America wakes up ??[/QUOTE] Your definition of waking up is what exactly? Signing away our 2nd Amendment rights because of murderous nutbags going on killing sprees? Don't try to make erroneous comparisons between US and AU. You don't have a porous border to the south and a sizable criminal element who will be the last to participate in a misconceived buyback program. Meanwhile, the law-abiding pawns will be sitting ducks while they waste precious defenseless minutes waiting for police to arrive.