[rant]

Back when Bush was touting his case for war, I was supporting it because I thought that what he was saying was true (WMD, al-Qaeda). Now that it's obviously a lie (Downing Street Memos, no WMD), he's changed his tune to "We have to support Iraq and their new democracy."

Honestly, to hell with Iraq and their people. I will never meet these people (well I may with a damn draft) and there is absolutely no reason to build their nation and give them "democracy" when they don't even want it. At the same time, our country is going to the shitter (see Congress, culture wars, Thrusday's Supreme Court ruling on private property, etc.) and just about every other country on the planet hates us more than they already did because of this farce war and us spitting in the face of people like the UN. The rest of the Western world even has a higher opinion of Communist China than they do of the US now.

The political philosophy is different, but Hitler did the exact same thing by invading countries to impose his idea of a political system, just as Bush is trying to do with democracy in the broader Middle East.

What pisses me off even more is that when I bring a dissenting opinion to the table to people here in Houston, they call me unpatriotic and say I'm not supporting the troops. Bullshit. Me and my family are some of the most patriotic people you can find: my dad was an Army Ranger for 20 years and my only sibling is in the Air Force (he's "JetaTek" here on MercuryServer) and he's going to be sent over to the Gulf within the next few months.

These morons telling me this stuff have probably never wanted to join the military and just want to see bombs blow up on TV because they're about as smart as Books on Tape for the Deaf. They also blindly support Bush for who knows what reason (probably because he's Republican and "from Texas") and are still just riding the Patriotism bandwagon after 9/11 with their disgusting "Power of Pride" bumper stickers and the like.

Dammit. My country is going into the shitter and I'm basically powerless to change it right now. God help us.

[/rant]

Re: Iraq

I agree with most of what you said. You are not alone.

20 years from now Bush will be remembered by historians as the worst president ever.

Re: Iraq

I hear ya mate, but just remember: as all god things come to an end, so do bad things...

I hope JetaTek come out of there unharmed, I will be expecting some input from him on this when he gets back: he will deffo have thoughts on this now anyway, but i'd really like to hear what he has come to think in his time there.

And...as far as I can judge a lot of people hate Americans at this moment, but those are the people that are too dumb to make the distinction between the the Americans (you) and their representatives (Bush and his clique). I hate Bush and his warmonging friends. But I like you ;-)

Oh, but I also hate the spineless UN fuckfaces that would still have Saddam in charge and be kissing his ass if it weren't for the American forces dude. Fuck that coalition talk: it was the US and the UK doing the dirty work. The rest is just trying to chew off their piece of the 'good-guy cake'. I'm still for that Euro cocktail with a splash of balls (Euro-American cocktail)...

[quote]Oh, but I also hate the spineless UN fuckfaces that would still have Saddam in charge and be kissing his ass if it weren't for the American forces dude.[/quote]

I agree totally there, but the rest of the world loves the UN which makes them hate us if we do anything against them.

The whole situation from a local to a global scales just pisses me the fuck off.

Re: Iraq

[quote=Yao] Oh, but I also hate the spineless UN fuckfaces that would still have Saddam in charge and be kissing his ass if it weren't for the American forces dude. Fuck that coalition talk: it was the US and the UK doing the dirty work. The rest is just trying to chew off their piece of the 'good-guy cake'. I'm still for that Euro cocktail with a splash of balls (Euro-American cocktail)...[/quote]

that's why i cant deal with all this shit.

all these folks cried aobut saddam for years, and when america comes in to do the dirty work they never could, america, because it is capable and willing to go into a country, get rid of the bad guys, stay to get it order, then hand it back free of charge, america gets the shitty rep of being big brother. people need to realize that yes, bush lied, but also, he did one great thing already (afghan) and is try to do another. both sides both sides.

and another thing, dont say that these peoeple dont want change, because they do, but its just not our version of it. even islamic countries suppress each other if they are different sects. (iraq+kuwait)(serbie/herz). it isnt like we went into afghanistan and installed billy grahm as emporer for life. they are now just more equal footing within the country. it is no longer all about the cleric who is backed by the most ruthless warlord, those with power like that were forced to give it up a little, and those who were neglected, now have a larger voice.

the best thing right now, would have our country commit for at least a few years, then let a moderate liberal win the US presidecny and have a hand in directing and couciling the gov't over there rather than hard head bush.

Even if this job needed to be done, the priorities are completely fucked up. First off, we were attacked by [b]Al-Qaeda[/b], not Iraq/Saddam. We should have made sure bin Laden was captured/dead before we even considered going into Iraq. Second, I still don't see why we are helping another nation build itself when we are leaving our own country wide open to attack (most Reserves/National Guard are in Iraq), and with this war the oil markets have gone out of control with uncertainty and fear which is hurting the global economy as a whole. I know China's demand is also driving up prices, but nobody is certain if they can safely get oil with this war going on (not to mention the situations in Nigeria and Venzuela, but that's a whole different issue), and that is also a major factor in price hikes.

The cause may be "noble" and the Administration may be optimistic about it, but Iraq posed no threat to us in the first place. There is no way we can be considered "safer" than we were before we started this war, either.

Setting the past aside, though, I know that if we pulled out tomorrow, the whole country would probably plunge straight to hell, which is what makes me so furious. It's a damned-if-we-do, damned-if-we-don't shit pot that Bush has gotten us into, and we have no idea whether all of the blood and money we've poured into this will pay off or be worth it.

As I said before, God help us all.

Re: Iraq

While I agree with all of you that the Bush administration's response to 911, including the so called "War on Terrorism," has tarnished the reputation of the U.S., you all seem to be disregarding a few very important facts:

1. The neo-cons (Rumsfeld, Cheney, Wolfowitz, etc.) were responsible for arming Saddam during Iraq's war with Iran in the 1980s. The weapons that he used for all of those monsterous atrosities were supplied by the U.S. government and funded by tax dollars. THIS WAS NEVER A WAR ABOUT DEPOSING A TYRANT!

2. The U.S. was providing financial support to Saddam up until the last days before the Gulf War.

3. Hilter was NOT nation building. While their are may be many theories regarding the aims of the Nazi movement, nation building is not one of them. You may be able to make that argument for Napoleon, but not for Hitler. The main comparison that I see between Bush America and Nazi Germany is the uncanny use of State propaganda.

Re: Iraq

I was for the Iraqi war because the government told me that Saddam had WMD's and would possibly use them or collude with terrorists to use them against us. Also, Saddam didn't help by not allowing the UN inspectors to do their jobs which gave Bush and the hawks more reason to think he was hiding something.

Unfortunately, if we leave Iraq now then it probably would go into chaos. If Iraq becomes unstable, then so goes the price of oil and world financial markets. I don't think our country has the resolve to carry on a war like this. I only hope that a free demcoratic Iraq that Bush sells happens sooner than later.

Re: Iraq

He definately did have WMD, since he used it on his own people.......That was just an exuse to get in there though. I don't see any other Nation out there trying to give people a better life. Imagine you lived there??? We put him in power, we had to get him out.

[quote]We put him in power, we had to get him out.[/quote]

This statement also needs to apply to Bush/Cheney/Satan/Rove.

Re: Iraq

i believe it was a big decision to step in iraq i do remember early 90's when iraq invaded kuweit, that was a big mistake from iraq seen through a neutral (i'm not american, or iraqui), and being under a dictatorial regim, i can tell you the life back then was not verry good at all.its an ideology that all dictatorial regims impose to its citizens, that make people believe this is the best it can be. it passed a decade since the dictatorial regim was pushed out in my country and now i see it differently.i have more liberties and its much better the only difference from iraq is that in my country, the dictatorial regim was pushed out by its own people not by some other country so what i think is that getting rid of the dictatorial regim in iraq was good, verry good. but unfortunately(like it was in my country too) there are still people who are victims of the old regim ideology and they think everyone is enemy of their country, including its citizens who are happy that the old regim is gone peace in iraq will come long years from now, we have to be pacient,i'm sure it will come what us gets out of this, i dont know, i'm sure will win some , its a big price iraqui people pay for their fredom, and in time, i'm sure it will be worthed