aww poor mikey

pointed out by someone on b-rock , maybe a repost here.

but all you ppl who think moore is honest and fair, not just a political media whore. read this and look for the book

Book: 'Michael Moore Is A Big Fat Stupid White Man' NewsMax.com Thursday, June 24, 2004 A just released book takes on Michael Moore as never before. Its title screams: ?Michael Moore Is A Big Fat Stupid White Man.? And surprisingly, this book has been published by the same publisher who gave us Michael Moore?s own runaway bestseller ?Stupid White Men.?

Check out NewsMax's Free Offer for this book -- Click Here

Apparently, more than a few people want to take revenge on Michael Moore and the timing couldn?t be better ? with the release this week of his ?documentary? attack piece on George Bush - Fahrenheit 9/11.

Moore is so terrified by his detractors he claims that he has already hired a cabal of lawyers. He says he will sue Bush supporters who he thinks may be preparing to slander him.

Moore's hypocrisy is obvious. Slate editor Jack Shafer says ?Moore's hysterical, empty threats" to sue critics of his latest schlockumentary shows that he "appears to believe in free speech only for himself."

One possible target for Moore?s lawyers may be the publisher of his own book.

Moore?s one time publisher, ReganBooks, is out with a disturbing yet comical book that dismantles every cog of that propaganda machine marketed as Michael Moore.

David T. Hardy and Jason Clarke's "Michael Moore Is A Big Fat Stupid White Man" begins by unearthing his phony roots and goes right up to his latest "documentary." Check out NewsMax's Free Offer for this book -- Click Here

Meet the Flint-drone: Everybody knows Moore is a blue-collar guy from Flint, Mich., right? That's how he always sells himself.

In reality, he was born and raised in the wealthy, lily-white town of Davison, Mich, the authors reveal. No wonder the clown prince of self-loathing developed such a complex about hating rich, stupid white males.

In a letter to Roger Ebert of the Chicago Sun-Times last year, Moore still listed his town as Flint. In fact, despite his proclamations that "capitalism is a sin" and "an evil system," he lives in a $1.9 million apartment in Manhattan and enjoys a $1.2 million summer home on Torch Lake in Michigan.

Does not play well with others: Moore can't get along even with his fellow travelers.

Hardy and Clarke disclose how the radical magazine Mother Jones fired the "arbitrary" and "suspicious" Moore; how he started his feud with his replacement, David Talbot, who later founded Salon; how Ralph Nader's organization fired Moore; how he attacked Pauline Kael, Harlan Jacobson and other prominent critics who exposed the deceits of his schlockumentaries; how he lost a lawsuit for betraying fellow lefty activist Larry Stecco in "Roger & Me," etc.

Nor can the elitist Moore tolerate those lowly working classes and students he claims to represent.

"Big Fat Stupid White Man" gives details of how he abused the staff during a speaking engagement at London's Roundhouse Theater; how he castigated a student who dared question his hefty speaking fee; how he attacked a young documentary maker who had the nerve to give him a taste of the "Roger & Me" treatment, and so forth.

And don't forget his amusingly shrill denunciation of those awful blue-collar crewmen who, unlike his fellow multimillionaires in Hollywood?s left, booed him during his tirade at the Oscars.

The book presents one example after another, alternating between frightening and hilarious, to make a brilliant case for Moore having Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

Then there's his feud with his former publisher, HarperCollins subsidiary ReganBooks, which gave us his best seller ?Stupid White Men? and now brings us ?Michael Moore Is A Big Fat Stupid White Man.?

ReganBooks, he claims, tried "to censor me and the things I wanted to say. They insisted I rewrite up to 50 percent of the book and that I remove sections that they found offensive to our leader, Mr. Bush." The company plotted "to 'pulp' and recycle all 50,000 copies of my book that were gathering dust in a warehouse," he insists.

However, ReganBooks issued a statement to NewsMax.com contradicting these allegations:

"Originally scheduled for release on September 11, 2001, the book was delayed by mutual agreement between author and publisher after the events of that day. Despite erroneous reports that have appeared in the press, the publisher never attempted to censor the book on partisan grounds, though the publisher and author did discuss replacing the original version of the book with an updated version to address the post-9/11 world. Ultimately, the decision was made to release the book in its original form, and it went on to become a huge success for both the publisher and the author. ReganBooks has since declined to exercise its option to publish another book by Mr. Moore."

After all, Moore and other members of the left-wing thought police can't bear a commitment to diversity of ideas.

Judith Regan, president and publisher of ReganBooks, noted that her company had produced books by Howard Stern and Moore as well as Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh.

"As publishers, we have an obligation to publish a wide range of ideas, opinions, and perspectives," she said in a statement issued to NewsMax. "Our job is to publish voices on the left, on the right, and everywhere in between ? to provide a broad range of opinion.?

"We agree with Michael Moore that free expression is one of our most important human rights," Regan said, "and publishing widely and freely is the only way to honor that tradition."

Unfortunately, Moore fights his critics' right to free expression, as Slate's Shafer noted and as Hardy and Clarke document at length.

Howlers in 'Columbine': Some of the distortions and falsehoods that plague the movie "Bowling for Columbine" are already well known, but Hardy and Clarke add details and reveal new whoppers.

Moore claims that National Rifle Association taunted the Denver area and the nation by holding "a large pro-gun rally" only days after the killings at Columbine High School. In reality, the annual meeting had been planned well in advance, was required by law, could not have been changed in time to another city, and was stripped of all rallies and ceremony in deference to the community.

The movie depicts Charlton Heston as making his famous "cold, dead hands speech" in Denver. In reality, the remarks came a year later in Charlotte, N.C., and Moore spliced bits of footage from that and another speech for maximum distortion. "It is a lie, a fraud, and a few other things," Hardy and Clarke write.

The fantasy film claims that Heston exploited a school shooting in Mount Morris, Mich., by staging another "big pro-gun rally" in October 2002. In reality, Heston?s appearance came eight months after the shooting, at a get-out-the-vote event in nearby Flint. Others campaigning in the area around that time included Al Gore, George W. Bush ? and Moore himself, touting Ralph Nader.

The authors conclude: "Bowling for Columbine has less documentary value than the average Bugs Bunny cartoon. You see Heston giving a speech ? but it's doctored. You see history ? but unconnected facts are given a particular Moorewellian spin. You hear that a factory is making weapons of mass destruction ? actually, it's building satellite launch platforms. You're led to believe that a rally was a response to a shooting, but it turns out it was eight months later, in anticipation of an election. You watch a Bush-Quayle campaign ad, but in reality it was an ad Moore himself assembled."

'Stupid' is as stupid does: Hardy and Clarke dissect "Stupid White Men" and "Dude, Where?s My Country?" along with the latter's celluloid ugly stepchild, Fahrenheit 9/11, to delve into the heart of Moore's pathology. A few highlights:

Moore harps on his portrayal of America as a "nation of idiots" (i.e., people who disagree with him) and illiterates. In reality, the "statistics" he offers indicating widespread illiteracy include two sizeable groups: immigrants who are often fluent in other languages but not English, and the blind and visually impaired.

Moore, who after all graduated from high school, delights in ridiculing his countrymen?s poor grasp of geography. "The dumbest Brit here is smarter than the smartest American," he snickers to an audience in London. But Moore chooses not to add an important fact: young adults worldwide performed badly on the National Geographic survey he so selectively cites.

He claims that Florida wrongly disenfranchised thousands of pro-Democrat criminals in the 2000 election. "Thirty-one percent of all black men in Florida" are felons, in his paranoid fantasy world. (No wonder this limousine liberal travels in such exclusive circles.) In reality, the Miami Herald showed that Democrat-run counties violated state law and let the overwhelmingly Democrat felons vote illegally ? more than 2,000 votes, most of which went to Gore.

Most importantly, "Michael Moore Is a Big Fat Stupid White Man" refutes Moore's wild attempts to implicate the president in 9/11. Every American should read these chapters. They are too detailed to summarize here, but one example will demonstrate this book's importance.

Moore claims President Bush invaded Afghanistan and toppled the Taliban so he could get an oil pipeline built. You've probably heard others parrot this allegation. A master of propaganda knows that if you repeat a lie often enough, people start to believe it.

In reality, Bush had supported Enron's plan to run pipes under the Caspian Sea and avoid Afghanistan. "Clinton was the one backing the rival Unocal plan to put them through Afghanistan," Hardy and Clarke observe.

Inspiration to terrorists: Moore's favorite claim: ?THERE ? IS ? NO ? TERRORIST ? THREAT!" If so, why do terrorists take succor from him?

The most damning indictment of Moore in "Big Fat Stupid White Man": the salute offered by Imam Samudra, leader of the Muslim terrorist bombers who murdered 202 people, mostly Australians and other tourists, two years ago at Paddy's nightclub in Bali.

"I saw lots of whiteys dancing and lots of whiteys drinking there," Samudra told Indonesian police. The authors note, "It was 'Kill Whitey' (to quote a chapter heading in Stupid White Men) with a vengeance."

Samudra's attorney Qaidar Faisal concluded his defense by praising the Taliban and quoting from "anti-western texts" including Moore's "Stupid White Men."

Despite all the appalling revelations in "Michael Moore Is A Big Fat Stupid White Man," it's hard to finish the book without feeling pity for this man.

Had he used his talents to make actual documentaries and write books devoid of distortion and mendacity, he could have offered a useful critique of the Bush administration's flaws.

Instead, fueled by a narcissism that springs from hatred of self and others, he mangles reality to dupe the uninformed, delight the blame-America-first crowd and even inspire terrorists.

He concentrates his venom on one politician and one party but damages a nation.

"Michael Moore Is A Big Fat Stupid White Man" marks a confident step in undoing his damage.

Editor's note:

Free Offer ? get "Michael Moore Is A Big Fat Stupid White Man" and $47 in bonus items with NewsMax Magazine ? Click Here Now

More on Moore and Fahrenheit 9/11

It's clear that Michael Moore has gone off the deep end when even Democrats compare him to the Nazis' master of propaganda:

"Hollywood agent and Kerry supporter Tom Baer told me, 'Kerry should flee Moore's movie. It's Goebbels all over again." This quotation comes not from Ann Coulter or Sean Hannity or Rush Limbaugh but from a column in the Washington Post by Tina Brown, a queen of the liberal media establishment.

Christopher Hitchens, a contributor to such partisan publications as New Left Review and The Nation, writes for Slate: "Fahrenheit 9/11 is a sinister exercise in moral frivolity, crudely disguised as an exercise in seriousness. It is also a spectacle of abject political cowardice masking itself as a demonstration of 'dissenting' bravery."

Andrew Sullivan, a former editor at the liberal New Republic: "Moore is beneath contempt."

For the Politics forum big guy.

i hate politics, i just think moore is a scumbag, he uses tragedy for profit.

ie kids killing kds and the worst thing to happen since hitler

[img]http://fun.wuffle.com/images/funny/thread-lock.jpg[/img]

We need this moved. :Bingo:

in before the lock

ok. moore doesn't use 'tragity for profit'. that's just really off base. he does show you a lot of stuff that is going on in the world. whether you like it or not, he's doing something that NEEDS TO HAPPEN.

micheal can dish it out and take it as well. i feel that this whole thing is off base. i don't think he'd have a problem with a book about himself. he eggs that shit on. i do know that george bush's lawyers have been contacting him, and he's got all sorts of issues at the moment with the politicians.

on howard stern on friday... politicians were calling in telling him he was 'WRONG.. BLAH BLAH TERRIBLE'.. and he kept saying.. if you can prove why i'm wrong, then i'm all for learning and understanding. but they couldn't. its too bad we're all learning about thier stupid lies. its thier fault.

i'm not saying we all should think michael is the greatest thing since sliced bread, but he sure as hell is THE ONLY PERSON IN AMERICA at the moment standing up to the FUCKTARD we have in office now.

if WE DON'T DO SOMETHING ABOUT OUR CURRENT SITUATION then we are all the ones who will see america fall from planet earth. we've already let it happen far enough.

also..

george bush uses tragity to his advantage if you think mike does. i don't know how you can say such a thing since mike is against putting peoples children into a war...

that really contridicts what he's about.

argh. i'm so tired of the 'people against michael' movement. we shouldn't be worried about learning about these awful things this admin has done. we should be thinking about ways to resolve it. and find truths in it.

Personally...I believe there are two sides too every story. As far as Michael Moore being a stupid white man...well that is ludicrous. A brilliant movie / documentary maker, a well out spoken literary genious maybe, but a stupid white man...come on the guy is a marketing genius. I believe the American people are smart enough to know that his movie Farenheit 911 has some factual and some fictional falocies involved with the making of this film...but as he stated...it was not based on a political agenda. It was to make a great selling docu-drama at the movie theatres. The man is about making money...that is what he gets paid to do. He never states that his film is based on 100% truth, but all of his quotes and taped conversations of President Bush and everything else are factual. They may have been taken out of context, but they were said. And if this movie has nothing else to offer other than getting the American people off their asses and to take part in the greatest gift given to man kind...the freedom of speach and the right to make up their own minds on what they believe. I mean we could become a society where our media and all news feeds are edited by our government and we are only told what they want us to know...isn't it already getting to this point??? I praise Mr. Moore for his left wing approach for attempting to push the envelope of free speech even thought he may have made a falocy out of the movie. If this movie does nothing else but get the American people who have the right to vote off their asses and take part in their own government, then I would call this movie a success. It is a crying shame that only 40% of all eligible voting citizens take the time to cast their vote. But those same people will be the first to bitch about the way things are going in our government. Too many people have taken on an attitude that "MY VOTE DOESN'T MATTER", this is simply bullshit. This logic of thinking is what allows a HITLER or other form of bullshit government to take over. Your one vote may not count ...but think off all the people that say the same thing. Now then, If all of you that have this logic of thinking actually went to the poles and got involved...don't you think a change could be made??? Americans have a feeling that all politicians are corrupt and therefore it doesn't matter who or what issues they vote for??? well at this time that is true only because those same people who don't think their vote doesn't matter have allowed the politicians to do what they want. The voting public is so scarce, that the politicians can get away with whatever they want. Don't you think it is time to make them TRULY accountable? Too sum it all up...I really don't care what political party you say that you belong too...If Mr. Moore's documentary does nothing more than get the American people off their asses and get them involed in their own government and make them realize that the politicians work for the people, not for themselves or their own political agenda, and make the american public realize that we must hold all politicians accountable for their decisions and actions, then this film has been a success.

See the movie, then make an informed argument. He backs up everything he has put in the film, and will argue his point on the website.

Just about anyone that has shown dissatisfaction in what the current status quo is villified by the powers that are in rule. Nobody in power wants to see their power structure shaken up, least of all by someone who has a persuasive voice.

It's funny how the people who are speaking the loudest about having this film banned/blocked/removed/etc. haven't even seen the film and flat out say it. How can anyone make an informed opinion of something if they haven't even tried to see/read/understand what is being said and what has been said in the film?

And btw, the idiot that's making the Michael Moore Hates America or Michael Moore is a Big Fat White Stupid Man tried to pull an "ambush" of his own on Michael Moore, asking him to quote the stats of guns used in defence. Why not just ask for the 109th digit of Pi? He completely missed the point - Moore asks the validity of the morailty of people that make decisions and flat out calls them on the wisdom of that decision. Only an idiot will play the stats game, since reports and sources are far, wide and contradictory to say the least (how many "studys" and "reports" have you read that have either claimed or debunked the link btwn exstacy and senility? What about the studies that keep claiming and then getting refuted that cel phones can cause cancer or bodily harm?)

If people have a problem with Moore's "ambushing" of Charlton Heston, ask yourself this: why the hell is the NRA using a man that is going senile as a spokesperson and a figurehead? That figurehead of any organization is going to be the main focal point for people who are going to question the judgement of the decisions of that movement.

moore uses only the interviews and words he can to prove his point. he leaves out everything/everyone that goes against what he is trying to do.

more than half his material is staged(proven i.e. the whole bank scene from bowling [[url]www.bowlingforthetruth.com][/url])

the other half is peiced together snippets, like the scene where he claims that charlton heston held rallies in denver after the killings in columbine. actually the NRA cancelled all events outside of a meeting for the voters of the NRA that was mandated by federal law for all nonprofit agencies.

hethen goes on to try and show the charlton heston speeck with the , obviously stupid remark "from my cold dead hands". but the truth is he cut 4 different speeches and peiced together different parts. that is PROVEN by the fact that all of a sudden heston is in a different colored suit, in front of a different backround, and on a different podium. there is a ton more evidence out there, you just need to look for it, what he claims to be truths are more often than not, proven to be staged and post edited.

listen i am not some pro war loony conservative, nor am i a bleedin heart liberal, but do all the research before you trust a guy who makes stupid remarks for personal gain.

i would like to see a "common sense party" rather than the stupid bi-partisan shit that exists today.

[quote=thesightless]moore uses only the interviews and words he can to prove his point. he leaves out everything/everyone that goes against what he is trying to do.[/quote]

That's not quite right. The head of Nike claimed the same thing ("I was misquoted!") when Moore asked him to come to one of the sweatshops in one of the Third World countries that Nike based their manufacturing operations in. Moore refuted by posting the whole, uncut interview (with no edits - it's all one long peice of tape) on the internet and Nike withdrew their claim.

But, at the same time, this isn't much different from how Fox News network (which does make claims to be unbiased and "spin free") does their news articles and items on a regular basis. At least Moore is coming clean on his bias on this film, and making his point very clear.

[quote] more than half his material is staged(proven i.e. the whole bank scene from bowling [[url]www.bowlingforthetruth.com][/url])

the other half is peiced together snippets, like the scene where he claims that charlton heston held rallies in denver after the killings in columbine. actually the NRA cancelled all events outside of a meeting for the voters of the NRA that was mandated by federal law for all nonprofit agencies. [/quote]

And CNN used Desert Storm Gulf War footage of Iraqis "celebrating in the streets" when the planes hit the world trade centre. It was recycled footage and CNN quietly issued an apology for it. A fuck of a lot more newsfootage that we see on television is recycled and stock footage than we care to know, partly because the sensationalism of the media is what earns it its ratings and therefore its sponsors and advertisment dollars.

[quote] hethen goes on to try and show the charlton heston speeck with the , obviously stupid remark "from my cold dead hands". but the truth is he cut 4 different speeches and peiced together different parts. that is PROVEN by the fact that all of a sudden heston is in a different colored suit, in front of a different backround, and on a different podium. there is a ton more evidence out there, you just need to look for it, what he claims to be truths are more often than not, proven to be staged and post edited.[/quote]

The thing is that I have to ask is why the right demands that the left should be held to a higher level of standards when it comes to their data and presentation of it. While this does mean that Moore is sinking to a level of his detractors and the people that he fights against, it's nice to see someone that will take the fight to their level, and work the editing room to his advantage to prove his point. Remember that Moore was criticizing as a member himself of the NRA why the rhetoric they are standing behind should be marched in immediately after the shootings in Columbine and Flint Michigan. Also remember, they were actually there on the dates that Moore presented and that's the main point he was making. Again, Moore doesn't claim to be unbiased. He is giving his point of view plain and simple and is no different from any other documentary maker (ie. see Man of La Mancha, Capturing the Friedmans, The Fog of War (which is about 20 hours of interview footage whittled down to about 2 hours), Blindsided (an interview with Hitler's secretary just before she died) and tons of others going all the way back to Triumph of the Human Will - a "documentary" which is a very disturbing and very powerful recording of a Hitler Rally). Many people make the assumption that documentary means unbiased, which is bullshit. The only true documentary would be a camera that would be untouched and unguided by a human hand. Everyone has an agenda when it comes to making a movie, and their point will be made either consciously or unconsciously as the movie gets made. The filmmakers are going to pick their heros and their villians and we're most likely going to buy into it completely.

[quote] listen i am not some pro war loony conservative, nor am i a bleedin heart liberal, but do all the research before you trust a guy who makes stupid remarks for personal gain.

i would like to see a "common sense party" rather than the stupid bi-partisan shit that exists today.[/quote]

I agree. I think everyone should research what they are looking at and standing behind as far as a point of view goes, but also, the media is trying more and more these days to give the viewers information overload everytime someone comes onto something that could be incriminating. You have an indictment coming down and you hold political office? Bury it in details. Confusion is one of the best ways to avoid an issue and is nearly commonplace in the media and a pretty standard tactic in politics today. Confuse the hell out of the public and hopefully they'll get lost in the sea of details.

Farenheight 9-11 for me, offered a number of questions I would like to see answered and in a straightforward manner. I acknowledge that I lean to the left (I am Canadian after all, which makes me pretty much a pinko commie ;)), so yeah, I'm going to be biased to Moore's views, his films and the points he's trying to get across.

P.S. for those of you that liked this or Bowling for Columbine I highly, highly, highly recommend getting your hands on a film called The Corporation. You won't regret it.

also, check this out. [url]http://www.spinsanity.org/columns/20020403.html[/url]

this one is by some guy who clearly hates moore, but he is also a putz at heart as you can tell, but if ya can look past his personal feelings and look at the few facts he presents , its a decent, nothing more, read [url]http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/1/8/184338.shtml[/url]

here is one that backs up the anti war/ anti bush theory, but again does what feel, moore is a creator more than a documentor(sorry its late and i cant bother to spell check) [url]http://www.suntimes.com/output/eb-feature/cst-ftr-moore18.html[/url]

here is one that shows how he cant handle his own tactics, then tries to hide it. also notice that he had his message board removed since. [url]http://www.suntimes.com/output/eb-feature/cst-ftr-moore18.html[/url]

i am seeing the movie tomorrow and already bought the book. im giving it all a shot. :Bingo:

[quote=thesightless]moore uses only the interviews and words he can to prove his point. he leaves out everything/everyone that goes against what he is trying to do.

more than half his material is staged(proven i.e. the whole bank scene from bowling [[url]www.bowlingforthetruth.com][/url])

the other half is peiced together snippets, like the scene where he claims that charlton heston held rallies in denver after the killings in columbine. actually the NRA cancelled all events outside of a meeting for the voters of the NRA that was mandated by federal law for all nonprofit agencies.

hethen goes on to try and show the charlton heston speeck with the , obviously stupid remark "from my cold dead hands". but the truth is he cut 4 different speeches and peiced together different parts. that is PROVEN by the fact that all of a sudden heston is in a different colored suit, in front of a different backround, and on a different podium. there is a ton more evidence out there, you just need to look for it, what he claims to be truths are more often than not, proven to be staged and post edited.

listen i am not some pro war loony conservative, nor am i a bleedin heart liberal, but do all the research before you trust a guy who makes stupid remarks for personal gain.

i would like to see a "common sense party" rather than the stupid bi-partisan shit that exists today.[/quote]

I guess you have still missed Moore's point...it is not about total facts or total fallocies, but it gets the word out that everything we are told is not the prevailing truth whether his facts are fictional or factional. It makes one think. It calls people to find compassion and begs them to get involved so that there is true accountability. It calls you to question your own beliefs of the prevailing political agendas that face the American people and the world and begs you to question what is real and what is factual. I believe his movie has the ability to generate a movement towards the truth, because the truth will be the only thing thats sets people free.

he does the same thing that he critiques, he just uses his viewpoints(i.e the opposite)

Propoganda

on a side note, maybe we should realize that even though the motives can be debated, we actually are attempting to bring a fairer government to Iraq. we got rid of a guy who did some horrific things to innocent ppl.

either way, im tired and going to bed, peace

ok. sorry. didn't read if anyone replied to me.. but..

i'm just really tired of this whole thing.. so sorry if i sounded pissy. that wasn't what i was trying to get across.

i know shitloads about what is going on. and it just frustrating when others don't see the issues at hand.

i just am an annoying VERY VERY LIBERAL person who thinks of HUMANKIND. unfortunately i know this is wrong to do, but its the way i live. so fuck me off.

:Naughty:

[quote=chlo? harris] so fuck me off.

:Naughty:[/quote]

You don't have to ask me twice. :twisted:

[quote=chlo? harris]ok. sorry. didn't read if anyone replied to me.. but..

i'm just really tired of this whole thing.. so sorry if i sounded pissy. that wasn't what i was trying to get across.

i know shitloads about what is going on. and it just frustrating when others don't see the issues at hand.

i just am an annoying VERY VERY LIBERAL person who thinks of HUMANKIND. unfortunately i know this is wrong to do, but its the way i live. so fuck me off.

:Naughty:[/quote]

I feel ya sista...I think the republicans have made more of a hipocrasy out of this film then anyone else...I mean come on...I wouldn't have even known the film existed if the conservative media and our conservative national party hadn't made it such a big deal. It is their incessant rambling and crying that makes me want to see this film even more.

theres a hell of a lot of writing in this thread :ZZZZ: I only got through the first 4 posts...sorry

[quote][b]BeachBum[/b]As far as Michael Moore being a stupid white man...well that is ludicrous. A brilliant movie / documentary maker, a well out spoken literary genious maybe, but a stupid white man...come on the guy is a marketing genius.[/quote] You can't be serious, its a take off of the title of his own book, its accusing him of being a hypocrite. He doesn't make documentaries anyway, he makes mockumentaries, a movie made to look like a documentary but is not entirely comprised of facts. Docos can be biased but that doesn't mean you manufacture truths to try and get your point across.

[quote][b]BeachBum[/b]I believe the American people are smart enough to know that his movie Farenheit 911 has some factual and some fictional falocies involved with the making of this film...but as he stated...it was not based on a political agenda. It was to make a great selling docu-drama at the movie theatres. The man is about making money...that is what he gets paid to do. He never states that his film is based on 100% truth, but all of his quotes and taped conversations of President Bush and everything else are factual. They may have been taken out of context, but they were said.[/quote] The entire point of his movies are that the American people AREN'T smart enough, they need these things pointed out to them and he knows he can feed them whatever he wants and they will believe it... and most have. The movie is presented as a documentary on non-fiction issues, he shouldn't have to say that its 100% truth as its automatically assumed. He should be forced to announce at the start of his films that some parts have been falsified and manufactured. He's presenting things as fact on events that have actually happened. These comments weren't taken out of context, they were edited to construct speaches that were never made. If you think that he's just doing this for the money then that completely nullifies the entire message he presents.

[quote][b]BeachBum[/b]If Mr. Moore's documentary does nothing more than get the American people off their asses and get them involed in their own government and make them realize that the politicians work for the people, not for themselves or their own political agenda, and make the american public realize that we must hold all politicians accountable for their decisions and actions, then this film has been a success.[/quote] But it does the absolute opposite, it completely destroys any miniscule faith that people had left in the political system. Its going to make people believe that their vote matters even less because no matter who they vote for its still going to end badly. The US needs to make voting compulsory so the people who don't want to vote because they don't believe it will make a difference will make it known about the dissent amongst the people. Moore's movies do not instill any confidence in any part of the system, it doesn't offer a solution.

[quote][b]el presidente Highsteppa[/b]Only an idiot will play the stats game, since reports and sources are far, wide and contradictory to say the least[/quote] Then why does Moore use them so liberally?

[quote][b]el presidente Highsteppa[/b]And CNN used Desert Storm Gulf War footage of Iraqis "celebrating in the streets" when the planes hit the world trade centre. It was recycled footage and CNN quietly issued an apology for it. A fuck of a lot more newsfootage that we see on television is recycled and stock footage than we care to know, partly because the sensationalism of the media is what earns it its ratings and therefore its sponsors and advertisment dollars.[/quote] On what planet does that justify Moore's methods? CNN used footage of people celebrating to create an incorrect impression, it was recycled and it was wrong. That still isn't at the level of merging speaches to create something completely new.

[quote][b]el presidente Highsteppa[/b]While this does mean that Moore is sinking to a level of his detractors and the people that he fights against, it's nice to see someone that will take the fight to their level, and work the editing room to his advantage to prove his point.[/quote] Bullshit, if he is going to call someone out then he needs to take the higher ground. If he is making accusations towards people because of their actions then sinking to their level makes him a hypocrite. He is using the methods he is preaching against.

[quote][b]BeachBum[/b]I guess you have still missed Moore's point...it is not about total facts or total fallocies[/quote] That may be the case but thats not how he presents it

I don't particularly like George Dubbya, I think the US (even the world) is a much worse place since he came into power. He may well be remembered as one of the worst US presidents in history. What I dislike is Moore's method. I realise that his controversy has created publicity but I think that if you simply scratch on the surface then he loses all credibility and it destroys his message. I say if you are going to preach then... 1) offer a realistic alternative/solution & 2) get your message across without compromising it. Reading through a couple of comments in this thread the left really lets itself down on its blind beliefs. Its always happy to tell you whats wrong but it rarely will offer a realistic solution or alternative.[/quote]

Michael Moores point is to make $$$millions off of the victims of Columbine and 9/11 while they sit back and get nothing. Read some of what the kids from Bowling for Columbine think of Michael Moore now.

[quote=Stu] He should be forced to announce at the start of his films that some parts have been falsified and manufactured.[/quote]

:lol: At the beginning of all of his movies it should say: "This documentary is based on a true story"

[quote=thesightless]moore uses only the interviews and words he can to prove his point. he leaves out everything/everyone that goes against what he is trying to do.

more than half his material is staged(proven i.e. the whole bank scene from bowling [[url]www.bowlingforthetruth.com][/url])

the other half is peiced together snippets, like the scene where he claims that charlton heston held rallies in denver after the killings in columbine. actually the NRA cancelled all events outside of a meeting for the voters of the NRA that was mandated by federal law for all nonprofit agencies.

hethen goes on to try and show the charlton heston speeck with the , obviously stupid remark "from my cold dead hands". but the truth is he cut 4 different speeches and peiced together different parts. that is PROVEN by the fact that all of a sudden heston is in a different colored suit, in front of a different backround, and on a different podium. there is a ton more evidence out there, you just need to look for it, what he claims to be truths are more often than not, proven to be staged and post edited.

listen i am not some pro war loony conservative, nor am i a bleedin heart liberal, but do all the research before you trust a guy who makes stupid remarks for personal gain.

i would like to see a "common sense party" rather than the stupid bi-partisan shit that exists today.[/quote]

You missed the point of the entire "Bowling For Columbine" documentary. Moore regardless of some staging, i.e. the bank scene or Heston, was trying to get a point across concerning the U.S. His point that you obviously missed is that there is something very wrong with the way our country operates. The statistical figure comparison between countries on violent gun related deaths wasn't fabricated. If that didn't hit you on your forehead then nothing ever will related to this topic. Our country was founded on violence and still thrives on it. Open your eyes!

[quote=CHiEF_N] If that didn't hit you on your forehead then nothing ever will related to this topic. Our country was founded on violence and still thrives on it. Open your eyes![/quote]

The only reason we have any violence in our country is because we have a romance affair with outlaw individuality [b]and because we don't have an assimilated population[/b]

In America people have ideas ranging from communism to complete anarchy and every ideology has a relatively strong following. In addition, we have an enormously strong since of individuality. The American government cannot possibly hope to account for all of the ideologies we have in this country, and our obsession with individuality means that there is constant person to person conflict as well.

Furthermore, Americans aren't taught to work through their problems and overcome adversity. "No, that's some type of ideological bullshit that sucessful people say to control the opressed people. Hollywood even told me so, they said everything that makes you great you are just born with....like good looks and acting talent and money" America knows the real way to solve your problems is to moan and bitch until you get attention, the same way a baby cries for its bottle. A poor kid sees moore on tv talking about how they have been cheated by the rich man.....that's it Michael don't actually teach them things they might be able to apply in life....teach them to hate. :lol:

I think [i]you[/i] missed the point of Bowling for Columbine.

Bowling for Columbine in 30 seconds: "The media has been scaring you for profit. They have been teaching you that minorities are evil and that guns are bad and all the while they have been exploiting your fear for their personal gain! Well i've got something to say to those media scum who have been manipulating American minds.............. You were right all along....i mean look at these kids from Columbine...bullet holes here and here. Tell us your story boys. Boys, blame Target; it's their fault. Let's go downtown and raise hell since i never got to when i was in high school. Look at Charlton Heston can you imagine this insensitive bastard running around with a gun?.... its fucking scary. With people like him around who needs enemies huh boys? The End. Wasn't that fucking brilliant?!"

I agree that America is very violent.....or is it? Micheal told me it wasn't....but then......he sorta.....told me it was........wait did the media blow it out of proportion, or did columbine really happen?......didn't Charlton Heston end up giving guns to the bad kids......or was that Target? I don't even know anymore, but God Bless Michael Moore he taught me so much in such a short time........he's the man. Vote Kerry :RockOn:

dont vote kerry, vote for a system where every citizen can actually vote for every issue. not some dumshit who talks out his ass to get ppl he/she doesnt care about to get them a guaranteed job for a few years

PS if kerry wins, we will be attacked. badly. :|

:lol: Did you read my post or no?

[quote=mylexicon]:lol: Did you read my post or no?[/quote]

I did. :mrgreen:

But found nothing interesting. Sounds like fighting fire with fire. You have a very fine "MM republican" style in seeing things.

IMO everyone is giving him too much credit (the liberals and the conservatives). [b]He is just a writer / director for god's sake, not a prophet, angel or a satan[/b] (depends which side you're on).

Anything that comes out of Hollywood can't be treated too seriously or a bible. There are some facts and there is some fiction, but who really cares. Can't we and don't we have the right to decide on our own? I think he is a great writer and a great director, who has a lot of valid points, but exagurates in everything. And that's all.

Re: michael moore cant handle his own medicine

from the original article...... [quote]After all, Moore and other members of the left-wing thought police can't bear a commitment to diversity of ideas. [/quote]

OK, this is the sort of shit that irks me. I'm sure the author has a lot of valid points, but they completely lose it when they throw in cheap partisan insults like that. If you want to criticize Michael Moore, fine - there is more than enough to get him on. But statements like this show that their criticisms are not at all separate from their obvious political agenda.

It sort of reminds me of a big fat guy that makes "documentaries"....

Makes me wonder if the book in question will be similar to Moore's works.

The final 3 quotes from prominent liberals critisizing Moore even go to show that these "liberal thought police" don't even fully support the guy.

If people want to show that Moore is full of shit, for fuck's sake, don't use his methods - no political flag-waving, no smart-ass cheap shots. Put the facts out there on the table - that is going to convince a lot more left-leaning people (although some people will love him no matter what). Otherwise, you are just preaching to the crowd.

Re: michael moore cant handle his own medicine

[quote]The final 3 quotes from prominent liberals critisizing Moore even go to show that these "liberal thought police" don't even fully support the guy.[/quote]

There is a difference between the left, and the far-left. In this case, the left criticized the far left.

[quote]Put the facts out there on the table [/quote]

I think we've already dont that. His movie has been minimized to horse sh*t.

[quote=brakada]IMO everyone is giving him too much credit (the liberals and the conservatives). [b]He is just a writer / director for god's sake, not a prophet, angel or a satan[/b] (depends which side you're on). [/quote]

I agree 100% :Bingo: That's why all of us are so pissed at him. Millions it seems (if you believe the media reporting :lol: ) have seen moore's film and all of them are walking out of the theatre with a raging boner for Kerry.

Its horrible. He gets huge standing ovations from the goddam French and lots of other people in Europe like him to. I'm not the one who's is swept away by him. But i have do have a great respect even borderline fear for what he can do to the average simpleton. [color=#F0F0F0]MICHAEL MOORE IS A FUCKING ASSMUNCH[/color]

[quote=mylexicon] I agree 100% :Bingo: That's why all of us are so pissed at him. Millions it seems (if you believe the media reporting :lol: ) have seen moore's film and all of them are walking out of the theatre with a raging boner for Kerry.

Its horrible. He gets huge standing ovations from the goddam French and lots of other people in Europe like him to. I'm not the one who's is swept away by him. But i have do have a great respect even borderline fear for what he can do to the average simpleton. [color=#f50000]MICHAEL MOORE IS A FUCKING ASSMUNCH[/color][/quote]

Are we hiding something again? :Tongue:

Well that doesn't say anything good about american intelligence, does it? As for the French and the Europeans it's a bit different. They don't vote in the States, it just perfectly fits their visions of the Bush administration. :mrgreen:

[color=#F0F0F0] LIBERALS NEED TO BE SHOT, HOW'S THAT FOR GUN CONTROL?[/color]

[quote=mylexicon]But i have do have a great respect even borderline fear for what he can do to the average simpleton. [color=#F0F0F0]MICHAEL MOORE IS A FUCKING ASSMUNCH[/color][/quote]

Simpleton, LMAO! You need to take a look in the mirror. Bush is a con artist and not even a very clever one. You've been conned into believing that what he is doing is for the well being of you and the rest of our country when in fact he doesn't give a rats ass about us unless it makes him and his affiliates more money. Moore may have an exaggerated opinion, but he also displays footage that wasn't staged of your great leader showing his true colors that only a f*cking idiot wouldn't be able to see. You need to open your glazed over patriotic eyes as well!

[quote=Jenks][color=#FAFAFA] LIBERALS NEED TO BE SHOT, HOW'S THAT FOR GUN CONTROL?[/color][/quote] :RockOn: [color=#F0F0F0]Truer words have never been spoken :WINK:[/color]

My eyes are open, i know exactly what he is doing and it doesn't bother me. I'm not sure it should bother you either. Bush is leaving the average American behind because, truth is, making sure our corporations don't go belly up from terrorism is more important than making sure that everyone has great social programs. We can't protect everything, and corporations are more important to the future of this nation, than any one of us is alone. Cruel, but that's the reality of the matter. And did you ever stop and think that prosperous corporations might help all of us?

278 million average Americans could die today and be replaced at the drop of a hat. If the other two million elites were killed the world as we know it would be changed forever. Sucks....but if you don't make yourself important to society you are simply living of the benevolence of others. Take the things you have and turn them into something important to all people. That's how the wealthy got where they are today. While elevating their own lifestyle they gave jobs to other people and created demand for goods that would have to be met by other companies. That's how wealth is created. If you sit around looking for special treatment and handouts......there's really not much incentive for keeping you around, is there?

^^^^^ :CandyPop: @ that post. :RockOn:

[quote=mylexicon][quote=Jenks][color=#FAFAFA] LIBERALS NEED TO BE SHOT, HOW'S THAT FOR GUN CONTROL?[/color][/quote] :RockOn: [color=#F0F0F0]Truer words have never been spoken :WINK:[/color]

My eyes are open, i know exactly what he is doing and it doesn't bother me. I'm not sure it should bother you either. Bush is leaving the average American behind because, truth is, making sure our corporations don't go belly up from terrorism is more important than making sure that everyone has great social programs. We can't protect everything, and corporations are more important to the future of this nation, than any one of us is alone. Cruel, but that's the reality of the matter. And did you ever stop and think that prosperous corporations might help all of us?

278 million average Americans could die today and be replaced at the drop of a hat. If the other two million elites were killed the world as we know it would be changed forever. Sucks....but if you don't make yourself important to society you are simply living of the benevolence of others. Take the things you have and turn them into something important to all people. That's how the wealthy got where they are today. While elevating their own lifestyle they gave jobs to other people and created demand for goods that would have to be met by other companies. That's how wealth is created. If you sit around looking for special treatment and handouts......there's really not much incentive for keeping you around, is there?[/quote]

I'm not blue collar there ace. I work as a salaried Operations Analyst for a major ADSL ISP in the southeast. I respect your comments, but I don't have to kill anyone or even harm them in any way to earn my living. I'm not against anyone who is wealthy, shit some of my family are very well off. With as young as I am, ambitious and the success that I've already achieved in my career, I probably won't be doing too damn shabby by the time I'm middle aged either. I agree everyone should strive to be extraordinary in their chosen endeavors, but only if it doesn't harm others. Bush, his non-political affiliates and administration are getting richer, but it is blood coated money. Do you concur with my opinion or his?

I do not concur with you...and i don't necessarily concur with bush either on all points...however...

for me it's black and white...

entitlements or no entitlements....

dem or rep...

i could give a fuck less about much else...even tho i do agree with a lot of what bush does.

Earn your keep, or fuck off.

i will say this tho...one of the few problems i have with Bush and right wingers is Christianity. I'm republican, but FFS, leave religion out of it...but they can't because they're so deeply rooted in it, not to mention it's a hell of a lot of votes.

weak imo.

[quote=CHiEF_N] I agree everyone should strive to be extraordinary in their chosen endeavors, but only if it doesn't harm others. Bush, his non-political affiliates and administration are getting richer, but it is blood coated money. Do you concur with my opinion or his?[/quote]

Mmmmmm :Rolling: So so, i guess. The part about pursuing a career as long as it doesn't hurt others seems a little bit too idealistic. At some point you are going to be faced with a situation where you will have to overcome, out perform, out work, or out achieve someone else. Knocking them down the totem pole shouldn't deter you unless you know you are doing it to be malicious or you know you have achieved new prominence through deceit.

As far a blood money.....no i don't agree. People who think Iraq and the War on Terror are making us wealthy have gone mad. We will be lucky if breakeven after its all said and done. The amount of money we have to spend protecting our borders is going to continue to increase, and the more our allies refuse to help keep us safe, the more money we are going to have to keep spending on military and intell. Terrorism is linked very strongly to poverty. This democracy and capitalism installation in Afghanistan and Iraq is meant to help keep us safe, by making them realize they can create a place they want to live without brutalizing others. We aren't pocketing anything off of WOT. We are simply trying to stop the future budget bleeding. We are hoping that by fighting a short expensive war now, that we will be able to save the world and ourselves from fighting a long ultra-expensive losing battle in the generations to come.

[quote=Jenks]i will say this tho...one of the few problems i have with Bush and right wingers is Christianity.[/quote]

hahaha.....i know what you mean but try to keep as open a mind as possible..... it is the control freaks that mess the Republican party up.

I have a grandfather who is a baptist pastor and a grandmother who plays the organ at his services. They are both 83 and despite their age they do not support enforcing church policy with the government. But it's not because they are really nice, or obnoxiously open minded.

It's because they know the government will screw it up :lol: :lol: :RockOn:

Re:: michael moore cant handle his own medicine

Okay, so by this mentality, you think that even if it means you'll have to harm others to make your money it's alright? :?

Re:: michael moore cant handle his own medicine

My previous post was directed towards Jenks.