He will be tackling the issue of Health Care, in a new film called 'Sicko'.

No shit. I can imagine what kind of propoganda would be in this film.

I wish he would try confronting the overwhelming amount of discordant evidence that proves universal health care is a crock of shit.

I can't wait for this one.

Re: Michael Moore's new film in 2005

[quote=cosmo]He will be tackling the issue of Health Care, in a new film called 'Sicko'.

No shit. I can imagine what kind of propoganda would be in this film.

I wish he would try confronting the overwhelming amount of discordant evidence that proves universal health care is a crock of shit.

I can't wait for this one.[/quote]

Neither can his flock of sheep...I mean adoring fans.

Re: Michael Moore's new film in 2005

[quote=evangelion][quote=cosmo]He will be tackling the issue of Health Care, in a new film called 'Sicko'.

No shit. I can imagine what kind of propoganda would be in this film.

I wish he would try confronting the overwhelming amount of discordant evidence that proves universal health care is a crock of shit.

I can't wait for this one.[/quote]

Neither can his flock of sheep...I mean adoring fans.[/quote]

Everyone who is anyone knows universal health care doesn't work. Canada is a prime example. Their health care system has been on the very verge of collapse for many years now. Moore is such a frickin fag. Why would someone want the US to be more like Canada in any way except legalization of Marijuana? And I don't even want that I just want it decriminalized and legal for medical use only.

Everything else in Canada is a good example of why things would suck if the US was a liberal nation. Health care, free enterprise, the fact that the government owns you. Canada suxx Moore, and if you don't think so get the hell out of the US and live there instead.

so you think it is ok for poor kids that become sick to die then receive health care?

[quote]so you think it is ok for poor kids that become sick to die then receive health care?[/quote]

No. No sane person would think that. But let's look at the circumstances that exist with Universal Health Care. What are the chances that someone gets sick gets the care that they need? If you break your leg, you have to wait several months to get it taken care of because there is a long list of people that do not have health problems and want other things taken care of that are not as important than, let's say, cancer. You have people pouring in for minimal problems and concerns that most of the time do not even exist, so people inevitably end up dying. What about those people?

And then we move on to the [i]standard[/i] of the health care. Have you studied the economics of Universal care? Since there are huge costs that are involved in the beaurocratic area, most of that money gets eaten up in other areas and it hardly ever gets to where it is supposed to. Much like governments with social programs. The standard of the supposed system that's put into place is mis-managed the huge majority of the time. And what happens to the pay of the doctors? It gets minimalized, so countries with universal care often import workers from third world countries that do not have the experience, nor the drive to take care of things that doctors with degree's and the drive can do with their experience. Things will also become more scarce since it's given out equally and [i]more often[/i].

You can use this same economics system when it comes to Drug research and development. It will dwindle away in the future.

[quote=devon]so you think it is ok for poor kids that become sick to die then receive health care?[/quote]

The only thing worse then a liberal, is a communist. Universal anything is a bad idea. Period. Just look at what Universal Health Care is. Communism. Communism is about a half a step away from fascism.

Look at what Communism has done to people's lives in the last 200 years. It seemed like a good idea, and it may still seem that way to some, but its not.

You should read the book Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand (everyone should). She documents what would happen if Communism were to run rampent in the US, and goes into detail the exact ways that the country would fall apart.

To make things fair, all jobs become national property. The Labor Dept gives you jobs first come, first serve instead of being based on merit and ability....also, if you know someone, you're in. Millions starve.

Without the incentive of reward for merit, the financial structure collapses. No one cares, because the creed of the day is those who can't do it will be cared for by those that can and will. Its hippie mentality times 1,000.

[quote=cosmo][quote]so you think it is ok for poor kids that become sick to die then receive health care?[/quote]

No. No sane person would think that. But let's look at the circumstances that exist with Universal Health Care. What are the chances that someone gets sick gets the care that they need? If you break your leg, you have to wait several months to get it taken care of because there is a long list of people that do not have health problems and want other things taken care of that are not as important than, let's say, cancer. You have people pouring in for minimal problems and concerns that most of the time do not even exist, so people inevitably end up dying. What about those people?

And then we move on to the [i]standard[/i] of the health care. Have you studied the economics of Universal care? Since there are huge costs that are involved in the beaurocratic area, most of that money gets eaten up in other areas and it hardly ever gets to where it is supposed to. Much like governments with social programs. The standard of the supposed system that's put into place is mis-managed the huge majority of the time. And what happens to the pay of the doctors? It gets minimalized, so countries with universal care often import workers from third world countries that do not have the experience, nor the drive to take care of things that doctors with degree's and the drive can do with their experience. Things will also become more scarce since it's given out equally and [i]more often[/i].

You can use this same economics system when it comes to Drug research and development. It will dwindle away in the future.[/quote]

If you think the only way to deal with the problem in your first pargraph is just not to do it, is ignorant. We've put men on the moon, I think we can come up with a way to figure out who needs what and when.

As for you second paragraph, our health care system is already mis-managed and people are being ripped off.

Canda has 100% healthcare coverage, they spend about 10% of their GDP. France and Germany have a 100% and I believe their cost is around 8-9% of their GDP. We don't have anywhere close to 100% and we are already spending 14% of our GDP on healthcare costs. If that's not mis-management what is?

^^^^^

Why don't you do some reading. Did I not just say that Canada's health care system is on the verge of collapse? Go read about what is wrong with Canada's healthcare system and then decide if you think that is right for the US. You are the ignorant one here sir.

Or maybe your just a communist, what do I know.

Well ..... I decided to do the work for you. Even though you probably still won't read it.

[url]http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=14789[/url]

And if you don't read both links in their entirety. Read this.

Prince Edward Island Premier Pat Binns warned, "our current system is not sustainable, the principles of the Canada Health Act are at risk, and health care as we know it will not survive the end of the decade."

Alberta Premier Ralph Klein made clear his province's willingness to consider opting out of the Canada Health Act, the single-payer enabling legislation also known as medicare.

Now go research why. COMMUNISM!!!!!

personally, I don't think that the government can manage much of anything ... BUT our health care system is not working as is. There needs to be (at a minimum) sweeping HMO reform and allowances for community/state based cooperative buying programs, which will allow coverage for even people with pre-existing conditions by spreading risk out among a larger group. I'm in great health, but if I didn't have insurance thru my job, my personal health coverage would cost $200 a month because I'm in my childbearing years AND 31. That sucks. Who can afford that? Not many!

[quote=devon]so you think it is ok for poor kids that become sick to die then receive health care?[/quote]

Most states have adopted medicaid programs that offers free healthcare to children or healthcare at a minimal cost based on the parents income. A socialized healthcare doesn't work. Take Canada for example, it can take upwards of a year to get an appointment with a cardiologist if you have a heart condition so many Canadians choose to come to the states and pay cash out of their own pockets just to get the care they need. I don't know about you but I don't want to wait a year if I have a bad heart to see a doctor

There's some grey area in all of this. I'm not overly familiar with Canada's state of public health, but I do live in a country where basic healthcare is free.

My brother is a doctor here in Australia, my father a child psychologist and my mother has been involved with medical executive management her entire career. My family has lived back and forward between Australia and the US since before I was born with my brother recently marrying an American. The way they talk about the state of the US health system is [i]really[/i] worrying.

I don't profess to be any expert at all on the topic - but they certainly are and have an entire career of experience in both countries to back it up.

The Aussie public health system is not without its problems, but let me tell you one thing for [i]sure[/i] - I wouldn't swap it for the US system any day of the week.

(PS: we do not have universal health care. I pay a combination of a "Medicare" government 1.5% tax of my income, and an additional ~US$50/month for extended private care to cover protection on certain items like ambulance fees, and less "critical" conditions such as optometry and dentistry. I consider myself pretty much fully covered and insured for someone who's in reasonable health with little wait for any medical attention. Those with certain conditions and on low income have certain concessions they can apply for. Those who earn above a certain amount get an additional Medicare tax if they do not have any private cover.)

[quote=Civic_Zen]^^^^^

Why don't you do some reading. Did I not just say that Canada's health care system is on the verge of collapse? Go read about what is wrong with Canada's healthcare system and then decide if you think that is right for the US. You are the ignorant one here sir.

Or maybe your just a communist, what do I know.

Well ..... I decided to do the work for you. Even though you probably still won't read it.

[url]http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=14789[/url]

And if you don't read both links in their entirety. Read this.

Prince Edward Island Premier Pat Binns warned, "our current system is not sustainable, the principles of the Canada Health Act are at risk, and health care as we know it will not survive the end of the decade."

Alberta Premier Ralph Klein made clear his province's willingness to consider opting out of the Canada Health Act, the single-payer enabling legislation also known as medicare.

Now go research why. COMMUNISM!!!!![/quote]

I read your link. Here's the difference. The Candaian economy is not the United States economy. We can take differnet hits and make adjustments because of our size that Canada can not. So in hard times Canada is having trouble where we may be able to survive. I'm not saying I have this whole thing figured out but there is a way.

You must be involved with the insurance companies some way. How is it fair when you pay insurance your whole life and when something goes wrong the raise your premimum? Or even drop you all together! That's corruption. I'm all for free trade but there is a line where this big business taking over the entire country crap has to end.

[quote=GrantT]
(PS: we do not have universal health care. I pay a combination of a "Medicare" government 1.5% tax of my income, and an additional ~US$50/month for extended private care to cover protection on certain items like ambulance fees, and less "critical" conditions such as optometry and dentistry. I consider myself pretty much fully covered and insured for someone who's in reasonable health with little wait for any medical attention. Those with certain conditions and on low income have certain concessions they can apply for. Those who earn above a certain amount get an additional Medicare tax if they do not have any private cover.)[/quote]

I have lived in both the UK and Israel, and whilst both countries have what could be described as Universal Health Care the management of said funds is very different.

In Israel every citizen pays between 3.1% and 4.8% of their salary directly into government coffers which gets distributed to the HMO of your choice. Whist in the UK every citizen is entitled to use the NHS as and when needed. In the UK the finances for health care comes out of National Insurance contibutions.

Before i left the UK i waited over two years to see a doctor for a specific problem. I gave up waiting when i moved to Israel.

For the same problem here i waited 2 weeks to see a doctor, had surgery and now i'm fine!

Both systems describe themselves as Universal health care. Their implementation and management however is very different. Universal health care can work, it just needs not to be bogged down with mindless managers who care more about their pockets then the services they offer. Also the management of health care has to be taken out of the power of politicians and managers and put into the hands of doctors and nurses, people who know what they are doing.

Just my 2 shekels worth!

[quote=devon][quote=Civic_Zen]^^^^^

Why don't you do some reading. Did I not just say that Canada's health care system is on the verge of collapse? Go read about what is wrong with Canada's healthcare system and then decide if you think that is right for the US. You are the ignorant one here sir.

Or maybe your just a communist, what do I know.

Well ..... I decided to do the work for you. Even though you probably still won't read it.

[url]http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=14789[/url]

And if you don't read both links in their entirety. Read this.

Prince Edward Island Premier Pat Binns warned, "our current system is not sustainable, the principles of the Canada Health Act are at risk, and health care as we know it will not survive the end of the decade."

Alberta Premier Ralph Klein made clear his province's willingness to consider opting out of the Canada Health Act, the single-payer enabling legislation also known as medicare.

Now go research why. COMMUNISM!!!!![/quote]

I read your link. Here's the difference. The Candaian economy is not the United States economy. We can take differnet hits and make adjustments because of our size that Canada can not. So in hard times Canada is having trouble where we may be able to survive. I'm not saying I have this whole thing figured out but there is a way.

You must be involved with the insurance companies some way. How is it fair when you pay insurance your whole life and when something goes wrong the raise your premimum? Or even drop you all together! That's corruption. I'm all for free trade but there is a line where this big business taking over the entire country crap has to end.[/quote]

You are obviously missing the entire point. Not a single country, in the world, that has a plan similar to Canada's, has a better plan then we have right here in the US.

Have you ever seen Animal Farm? Animal Farm was about Communism, you know...

There is a high price to pay for ignorance and laziness. The only instance where what your talking about could come into play, is if you are a gay or lesbian. And ya, I work for every insurance company in the world. :Bingo:

[quote=Civic_Zen][quote=devon][quote=Civic_Zen]^^^^^

Why don't you do some reading. Did I not just say that Canada's health care system is on the verge of collapse? Go read about what is wrong with Canada's healthcare system and then decide if you think that is right for the US. You are the ignorant one here sir.

Or maybe your just a communist, what do I know.

Well ..... I decided to do the work for you. Even though you probably still won't read it.

[url]http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=14789[/url]

And if you don't read both links in their entirety. Read this.

Prince Edward Island Premier Pat Binns warned, "our current system is not sustainable, the principles of the Canada Health Act are at risk, and health care as we know it will not survive the end of the decade."

Alberta Premier Ralph Klein made clear his province's willingness to consider opting out of the Canada Health Act, the single-payer enabling legislation also known as medicare.

Now go research why. COMMUNISM!!!!![/quote]

I read your link. Here's the difference. The Candaian economy is not the United States economy. We can take differnet hits and make adjustments because of our size that Canada can not. So in hard times Canada is having trouble where we may be able to survive. I'm not saying I have this whole thing figured out but there is a way.

You must be involved with the insurance companies some way. How is it fair when you pay insurance your whole life and when something goes wrong the raise your premimum? Or even drop you all together! That's corruption. I'm all for free trade but there is a line where this big business taking over the entire country crap has to end.[/quote]

You are obviously missing the entire point. Not a single country, in the world, that has a plan similar to Canada's, has a better plan then we have right here in the US.[/quote]

Is this an opinion or factual? If factual please provide the facts. I'm willing to read any link you post here to prove that universal healthcare won't work in the United States.

[quote=devon] Is this an opinion or factual? If factual please provide the facts. I'm willing to read any link you post here to prove that universal healthcare won't work in the United States.[/quote]

Are you frickin kidding me?? I'm saying that Communism doesn't work. And Universal anything is Communism, and thus, will not work, ESPECIALLY IN AMERICA.

I don't need to post links. History speaks for itself. All you need to do, is pick a nation that has tried to use Communism and then study its history duing that time. And how that nation eventually collapsed. And see what you find. I'm not about to hold your hand and walk you through it. If you want to learn about it then you will research it yourself, if not, I could care less about that too. And as far as health care, study Canada, or any European nation and see how every single one of their Universal Healthcare systems WILL COLLAPSE eventually. Its inevitable.

And as for Moore and his ever more Communist attitude toward every new movie he makes. May 'Sicko' be the downfall of his career.

[img]http://i.cnn.net/cnn/ALLPOLITICS/analysis/toons/2004/05/18/lang/cnnlangtoon.jpg[/img]

[url]http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/analysis/toons/2004/05/18/lang/index.html[/url]

[quote=Civic_Zen][quote=devon] Is this an opinion or factual? If factual please provide the facts. I'm willing to read any link you post here to prove that universal healthcare won't work in the United States.[/quote]

Are you frickin kidding me?? I'm saying that Communism doesn't work. And Universal anything is Communism, and thus, will not work, ESPECIALLY IN AMERICA.

I don't need to post links. History speaks for itself. All you need to do, is pick a nation that has tried to use Communism and then study its history duing that time. And how that nation eventually collapsed. And see what you find. I'm not about to hold your hand and walk you through it. If you want to learn about it then you will research it yourself, if not, I could care less about that too. And as far as health care, study Canada, or any European nation and see how every single one of their Universal Healthcare systems WILL COLLAPSE eventually. Its inevitable.

And as for Moore and his ever more Communist attitude toward every new movie he makes. May 'Sicko' be the downfall of his career.

[img]http://i.cnn.net/cnn/ALLPOLITICS/analysis/toons/2004/05/18/lang/cnnlangtoon.jpg[/img]

[url]http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/analysis/toons/2004/05/18/lang/index.html[/url][/quote]

if i were to guess you are a spoiled little rich kid from the middle of the country. i may be wrong but i'm willing to bet on it.

it's not communism it's healthcare. basic human services.

Maybe if you would not have so many stupid ass people sueing doctors and hospitals all the time. health care would be cheaper. It seems like in the states everyone is sue happy about everything. I guess you get what you pay for. Thank all those dumbass people for sueing not doctors and hospital for high cost insurance.

[quote=devon] if i were to guess you are a spoiled little rich kid from the middle of the country. i may be wrong but i'm willing to bet on it.

it's not communism it's healthcare. basic human services.[/quote]

Yep. You are a hundred percent correct. Rich beyond belief. So how much do you want to bet?

I drive around a Ferrari, even though my nick is Civic_Zen. (little Hint there as to what I might drive, not that I expect you to pick up on it) and hmmmm ..... why would I be driving a Honda Civic? Maybe because its cheap and economical. I also live in a mansion even though I can't afford a place of my own right now and need to have room mates. Its still a mansion, and yes Honda does make the Enzo. It goes on and on like that.

If I had to guess, I'd say your IQ is less then that of monkey's. Maybe you should try to go back to school or read a book or something. You obviously have no clue what Communism is.

seriously, talk about a hard on for communism and making everything lead to that.

i think given the proper conditions communism could work but thats neither here nor there.

do you even pay for heath insurance or are you still under daddys plan? do you have any kids? wake up and look at the current state of hmo coverage and policy in america today and where they are headed with it.

canada is a bad example to use as they are a differnt country than we are. same with the example of canadians coming down to buy coverage with cash. have you been to hospital lately? you pay for everything and its not pocket change.

it would be great if he did a movie about hmos and drug companies.

[quote=phishfood]do you even pay for heath insurance or are you still under daddys plan? do you have any kids? wake up and look at the current state of hmo coverage and policy in america today and where they are headed with it. [/quote]

What is with all you presumptuous assholes?? Every single one of you bases your argument on assumptions about who I might be even though you have no frickin clue.

I have great healthcare because I have a good job with one of the biggest Telecommunications companies in the US. I have a choice between 3-4 different HMO's, and all of them are good depending on who you are. And hell no I don't have kids, nor want them for some time.

The difference is, that in America we have free enterprise, anyone can own a business and the government will award a grant to anyone who wants to start one.

I'm not saying that healthcare is perfect in this country just that its better then the rest of the supposed "free" world. We have the best doctors and for a reason. Because we pay them well. You can't pay doctors well under a universal system.

It's amazing how someone can gain such popularity for being a complete fucking idiot. Too bad he doesn't realize that everyone is really like "Oh, let's see what the dumbass can do next". I guess he doesn't really care since he's making millions off of "documentaries". Why doesn't he donate he give his money away like he want's everyone else to do. Hypocritical bastard!!!!

[quote=neur0t0xin64]It's amazing how someone can gain such popularity for being a complete fucking idiot. Too bad he doesn't realize that everyone is really like "Oh, let's see what the dumbass can do next". I guess he doesn't really care since he's making millions off of "documentaries". Why doesn't he donate he give his money away like he want's everyone else to do. Hypocritical bastard!!!![/quote]

He is a classic commie. Participating in capitalism to get their false, weak message across.

That's what they do. Lash out at the conservatives for what they do themselves.

John Kerry comes to mind. He hasn't donated shit with his 1Billion plus account.