As taken from [i]Wall Street Journal /i today:

[quote][b]Court Backs Police on Identification Requests[/b]

The Supreme Court also ruled Monday that people do not have a constitutional right to refuse to tell police their names. The 5-4 decision frees the government to arrest and punish people who won't cooperate by revealing their identity.

The decision was a defeat for privacy-rights advocates who argued that the government could use this power to force people who have done nothing wrong to submit to fingerprinting or divulge more personal information. Police, meanwhile, had argued that identification requests are a routine part of detective work, including efforts to get information about terrorists.

The justices upheld a Nevada cattle rancher's misdemeanor conviction. He was arrested after he told a deputy that he didn't have to reveal his name or show an ID during an encounter on a rural road in 2000.

Larry "Dudley" Hiibel was prosecuted, based on his silence and fined $250. The Nevada Supreme Court sided with police on a 4-3 vote.

Justices agreed in a unique ruling that addresses just what's in a name.

The ruling was a followup to a 1968 decision that said police may briefly detain someone on reasonable suspicion of wrongdoing, without the stronger standard of probable cause, to get more information. Justices said that during such brief detentions, known as Terry stops after the 1968 ruling, people must answer questions about their identities.

Justices had been asked to rule that forcing someone to give police their name violated a person's Fourth Amendment protection from unreasonable searches and the Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination.

Justice Anthony M. Kennedy, writing for the majority, said that that it violated neither. "Obtaining a suspect's name in the course of a Terry stop serves important government interests," Justice Kennedy wrote.

The ruling left the door open for what Justice Kennedy said would be an unusual case in which revealing a name would be incriminating. But he said generally, disclosing an identity is "so insignificant in the scheme of things."

Marc Rotenberg, president of the Electronic Privacy Information Center, said America is different 36 years after the Terry decision. "In a modern era, when the police get your identification, they are getting an extraordinary look at your private life."

He said the ruling for Nevada "opens the door to what could become a routine fishing expedition among government databases," after police stop innocent people.

The police encounter with Mr. Hiibel happened after someone called police to report arguing between Mr. Hiibel and his daughter in a truck. An officer asked him 11 times for his identification or his name.

Over and over again Mr. Hiibel refused, at one point saying, "If you've got something, take me to jail" and "I don't want to talk. I've done nothing. I've broken no laws."

In dissent, Justice John Paul Stevens said that Mr. Hiibel "acted well within his rights when he opted to stand mute." Also disagreeing with the decision were Justices David H. Souter, Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Stephen Breyer. (Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of the state of Nevada)[/quote]

CAN YOU BELIEVE THIS SHIT?!?!?!! :x

Re: Remaining silent IS ILLEGAL in the USA !!!!

[quote=nasserd] CAN YOU BELIEVE THIS SHIT?!?!?!! :x[/quote]

:Hmmm: How can you not believe this! Half this country has been voting for a huge all-powerful government for 50 years now......and it was just so they could help save a tree, watch an uncensored movie on network television, listen to howard stern, or collect money that they didn't earn.

Now we will all suffer for their trangsgressions. :evil:

I think it is bullshit that stupid ass cases like this actually make it to the supreme court. Really, a conventional court couldn't solve the problem? The supreme court should have said get this shit out of out courtroom. I do think it is wrong that the people were arrested for not giving their names but serious; if you have nothing to hide then just give your name, spend 20 minutes getting hassled by the asshole cop on a power trip and then go about your business. The whole justice system needs a revamp. It doesn't work to the caliber that a lot of Americans would like it to.

[quote=Alpinevpr] The whole justice system needs a revamp. It doesn't work to the caliber that a lot of Americans would like it to.[/quote]

Agreed, the justice system does need a revamp.......mainly because the justice system isn't about justice anymore.........it is about fairness or "common good" or some other intangible glittering generality. The justic system was always meant to find guilt or innocence not to achieve some sort of political goal.

But for some reason it has been sidetracked.......OH YEAH! :o I just remebered why.....it all started when that 4-term liberal-ass (who actually was a good leader) tried to pack the supreme court with extra justices.......and then that crazy bitch hillary clinton convinced millions of Americans that our fundemental law documents (constitution) were actually flexible breathing documents and could/should be interpreted; however, we want them to. 8) :RockOn:

:| :Bullshit: :evil:

^^^ Good call. :Bingo:

[quote=mylexicon] Agreed, the justice system does need a revamp.......mainly because the justice system isn't about justice anymore.........it is about fairness or "common good" or some other intangible glittering generality. The justic system was always meant to find guilt or innocence not to achieve some sort of political goal.

But for some reason it has been sidetracked.......OH YEAH! :o I just remebered why.....it all started when that 4-term liberal-ass (who actually was a good leader) tried to pack the supreme court with extra justices.......and then that crazy bitch hillary clinton convinced millions of Americans that our fundemental law documents (constitution) were actually flexible breathing documents and could/should be interpreted; however, we want them to. 8) :RockOn:

[/quote]

:Bingo: :Bingo: :Bingo: :Bingo: :Cheerz:

i want to one day be the man so i can boss all the little people around. "WHATS YO NAME SON?"

yep. this shits real. we no longer have the right to remain silent in america. And if you don't to give out ur name, its probable cause to arrest you. Definately can see some police abuse/misuse goin on. Were givin up our freedoms one law at a time. [img]http://home.earthlink.net/~joshpowelson/images/icons/icon_irked.gif[/img]

The reality of it is that most people view this as totally necessary, while not thinking of what or why , but just plain fear of the scum.

USA come one get educated :roll:

Too many people sit around and don't really care if they get moved and controlled like a big herd.

freedom

[quote=Balanc3]yep. this shits real. we no longer have the right to remain silent in america. And if you don't to give out ur name, its probable cause to arrest you. Definately can see some police abuse/misuse goin on. Were givin up our freedoms one law at a time. [img]http://home.earthlink.net/~joshpowelson/images/icons/icon_irked.gif[/img][/quote]

agreed and what's sad is that once that freedom is gone, it's tough to regain it.

Ahh, ya gotta love the fact that nobody in America knows how to read; and those who do don't know what they are reading.

And if they do, they don't know what it means.

And if they do, they don't know what to do about it.

So they just sit back, and shut up.

Americans... useless!

Ahh, ya gotta love the fact that nobody in America knows how to read; and those who do don't know what they are reading.

And if they do, they don't know what it means.

And if they do, they don't know what to do about it.

So they just sit back, and shut up.

Americans... useless!

Ahh, ya gotta love the fact that nobody in America knows how to read; and those who do don't know what they are reading.

And if they do, they don't know what it means.

And if they do, they don't know what to do about it.

So they just sit back, and shut up.

Americans... useless!

[quote=nasserd]Ahh, ya gotta love the fact that nobody in America knows how to read; and those who do don't know what they are reading.

And if they do, they don't know what it means.

And if they do, they don't know what to do about it.

So they just sit back, and shut up.

Americans... useless![/quote]

You hate american's that much that you had to post this slander three times?? And yet we are the ignorant ones right?? We can't read either?? Jeez you pinpointed every american right there, not a single one of us is literate. :FuckOff:

But at least we know how to use the forum well enough not to post multilple times. Stupid ass. :ROFLMAO: :CrackUp:

A simple revamp of our justice system would never work. Instead it would require that 50% of America realize that the methods they've been seeking for the governing of this country have given 'Big Brother' to much power of the individuals life. If somehow you were able to force a complete reorginization of the American Justice system in five years it would once again be mired in beuracratic :BSPost:. Quite simply Uncle Sam now feels that he has the right to meddle in every individuals life and that rights so long held as cornerstones of this nation can be manipulated to better fit his needs. Now quite unfortunately nasserd is right about one thing the question is what to do a thousand theories but no answer at least not a quick and easy one. However, I would like to point out that by the sheer numbers of American posters in the politics section of this board we quite obviously don't fit into any of his other overgeneralized catagories.

[quote]The justices upheld a Nevada cattle rancher's misdemeanor conviction. He was arrested after he told a deputy that he didn't have to reveal his name or show an ID during an encounter on a rural road in 2000. [/quote]

It's kind of double-edged...you don't really have to reveal yourself...but man for the love of all that is holy and whatnot, if you get pulled over by an officer on the road, the FIRST thing they ask you for?

"License and registration..."

And guess what happens if you don't comply or start acting like a jackass.

Yes. They think you have something to hide.

So thanks to this simple, bull-headed-minded MORON, instead of just complying, showing the ID and then probably getting a simple ticket (which is 10 times easier to fight in court), he tried to fight the whole system...and the system gained another W in the use of more broad powers.

[quote=deeprogressions]A simple revamp of our justice system would never work. Instead it would require that 50% of America realize that the methods they've been seeking for the governing of this country have given 'Big Brother' to much power of the individuals life. If somehow you were able to force a complete reorginization of the American Justice system in five years it would once again be mired in beuracratic :BSPost:. Quite simply Uncle Sam now feels that he has the right to meddle in every individuals life and that rights so long held as cornerstones of this nation can be manipulated to better fit his needs. Now quite unfortunately nasserd is right about one thing the question is what to do a thousand theories but no answer at least not a quick and easy one. However, I would like to point out that by the sheer numbers of American posters in the politics section of this board we quite obviously don't fit into any of his other overgeneralized catagories.[/quote]

:RockOn: Very well said.

Big government politicians (mainly dems) have been looking for ways to improve the ways people live by enlarging and centralizing gov. power. For damn near 1/2 century intelligent Americans who believe in preserving the spirit of the constitution have told them that their overly zealous idealism and blatant disregard for the past would cause problems for everyone everywhere.

Well America here they are. And electing another dem. especially a French one isn't going to solve anything. Power this vast will corrupt whether its possessed by Bush or Kerry. Their is only one party left that still consistently votes to downsize the massive budget that gives Uncle Sam his domestic omnipotence. 1.6 trillion wasn't enough.

You spend billions of dollars feeding poor people and inviting minorities to this country only so the out of control institution you have created can rape them in the ass. :Bingo: Nice :FuckOff:

[quote=FM]So thanks to this simple, bull-headed-minded MORON, instead of just complying, showing the ID and then probably getting a simple ticket (which is 10 times easier to fight in court), he tried to fight the whole system...and the system gained another W in the use of more broad powers.[/quote]

There is no doubt a little common sense could have prevented a lot of this big gov. nonsense; but i think you'd be singing a different tune if an Arab immigrant was the one caught in the middle of this. All of a sudden the defendant didn't know any better and the evil cops are part of a right wing conspiracy.

^^bingo...unfortunately also, that's why you can't read and enforce the laws anymore in black and white..there's just way too much gray that comes into doubt...

[quote=FM]^^bingo...unfortunately also, that's why you can't read and enforce the laws anymore in black and white..there's just way too much gray that comes into doubt...[/quote]

Law is the elimination of gray area. This gray area you speak of doens't actually exist. It is a perception that has occured in the mind of the American public as a result of the Supreme Court flip-flopping on issues throughout the last century.

According to the law the Arab offender i spoke of would be guilty. If the laws were written clearly and remained unchange and uninterpretted except for in times of extreme social crisis, people would be able to come to have an elemet of certainty in their lives, and we wouldn't be in constant social upheaval. That was the purpose of the Constitution in the first place!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The constitution was supposed to be uncompromising and adjustable. But since we can't pass a fucking amendment in this day and age the constitution has become compromised and unadjustable!!!!!