passed today 51-49.

let the drilling begin. :RockOn:

WASHINGTON - The United States Senate has taken a major step towards allowing drilling for oil in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.

The Senate voted 51-49 on Wednesday to stop opponents from removing a provision from next year's budget allowing drilling in the refuge. That means opponents cannot use a filibuster to block attempts to open ANWR to oil exploration and drilling.

Re: Drilling ANWR!!

Sure, why not piss on everything for the sake of money.

Goddamn pricks.

Re: Drilling ANWR!!

Yao, have you actually read into this or are you just responding with a kneejerk environmentalist reaction?

Re: Drilling ANWR!!

If you provide a link I can read into it. And will.

All I make up out of aforementioned is that it is now possible to get permission to drill in a reserve...the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.

I still remember Bush's fight to get clearance for drilling in some Indian inhabited refuge in Alaska, too.

Correct me if I'm wrong plz...don't wanna be spewing BS here :wink:

Re: Drilling ANWR!!

It's practically a barren land. Snow and rock.

It's the largest untapped oil resource in north america, capable of producing more oil than any of the lower 48 states.

If some caribou have to relocate or adapt, it's a sacrifice i'm willing to make.

The oil we could tap from that land will help reduce our dependancy on foreign oil, plus put pressure on OPEC to lower prices.

Cost/Benefit.

Benefits outweigh the costs imo.

Re: Drilling ANWR!!

[quote=Jenks]

It's the largest untapped oil resource in north america, capable of producing more oil than any of the lower 48 states.

[/quote]

Yeah, so? Saudi Oil will be what's on the menu because it's just so cheap and easy. No doubt that big oil will get tax breaks to "explore" drilling there which are in turn used to bolster profits.

Re: Drilling ANWR!!

of course they get tax breaks. they deserve them think about it. if they can lower thier costs of operating, then they can charge less.

the best thing to come outta this would be if they found a supply big enough to supply the world like the mid east does, that way we can leave the whole fucking region to itself rather than getting involved and bringing more shit and scrutiny upon ourselves, just think if oil went down a lot. the world's economies could benifit so much.

Re: Drilling ANWR!!

There's only an estimated 10.4 billion barrels. We import about 2.6 million barrels per day from the Mideast. This Arctic reserve would last only 20 years even if we split our current Mideast consumption between ANWR and the Mideast, 10 if we cut off importation from the Mideast completely. So, it really doesn't rid us of Mideast dependency at all.

Plus, even if we were completely oil independent, we would still be inextricably linked to the Mideast because of Israel. There is no magic bullet.

Re: Drilling ANWR!!

I thought the reason gas is costing so much was because of the refinement. and all the different gases that have to be made for individual states.

Re: Drilling ANWR!!

[quote=sammwalk]There's only an estimated 10.4 billion barrels. [/quote]

That estimate is nearly 10 years old. Since then drilling techniques and equipment have advance considerably - but a reevaluation of the region hasn't been done due to the fact that the area was declared a wildlife reserve. Modern technology allows us to drill deeper and longer than before (no sexual innuendo intended), and the processes have been refined enough over the last ten years to make the drilling/refining more complete and efficient.

Think about it - do you think they'd be going through all this trouble for just 10.4 bil barrels? As sammwalk pointed out, it wouldn't last more than 10-20 years and then we'd be back to square one. The costs alone would make it an economical waste of time - G Dub's oil pals would probably spend more money setting up shop than they'd make from distribution. If that's the most they could get from ANWR they would leave it to the caribou and focus on the ranges off the north coast of South America.

This vote just allows for a reevaluation of the area, it doesn't mean that they're flying in the Clampetts and putting them right to work. They could go there and find out that its still as unfeasible as it was 10 years ago and leave the place alone, or they could find an even larger reserve than they originally thought. Either way at least we're exploring alternative options to feed our oil dependency.

These alternative options will loosen the stranglehold that OPEC has on the world oil market. How many times has Bush been bashed about his ties to the Saudi royal family, now here's an opportunity to cut some of those ties and he's still getting bashed. A new source of oil, no matter how big or small, will go far in terms of balancing out the world oil market. Even if this reserve only lasts us 20 years as some estimate, who knows what technological breakthroughs will occur during that time. Look how far fuel economy has come in the last 20 years - affordable hybrid cars, greater city/hway mileage for most models ect.. ect.. It may only last 20 years, but that could be time enough to develop a new mode of energy - one that allows us and the world to drop this voracious consumption of oil.

This isn't a magic bullet, I agree, but it's a step in the right direction.

Re: Drilling ANWR!!

To some extent, yes. But I strongly disagree with Jenk's remarks on relocating 'just a few caribous'. If it's a refuge or reserve, it means that there's something of value to the planet out there, and if so, it would be fucking arrogant to put your own interests first. Unless you really don't care about our own habitat, namely: this planet.

I'm no green tree-hugging environmentalist, but I do advocate a little more caution in the way we handle natural resources: we're making our own presence here a problem to nature, and I don't believe we can do that without consequences.

Re: Drilling ANWR!!

^hippie

Re: Drilling ANWR!!

Thanx. Here, smoke some pot. Let's all be happy! Wanna borrow my GF? :mrgreen:

Re: Drilling ANWR!!

Yeah, smoke a pot :)

Re: Drilling ANWR!!

i don't really care if they take the oil, i just don't want them to have an accident and ruin the enviroment.

Re: Drilling ANWR!!

How about instead of tapping into the ANWR us Americans look for more fuel-efficient cars and stop buying fucking SUVs and Hummers?

Re: Drilling ANWR!!

because we still don't have the technolgy to make it safe and reliable. you can't just put a battery in a car and say here you go.

Re: Drilling ANWR!!

I'm all for the re-evaluation of the area and drilling if it's going to bring more oil into the US. The price per barrel has to be competitive for them to want to do this that is true, why break you back when you don't have to. The other part is strategic, we need more sources and ways to develope oil. If we can develope those sources it is all the better for us. The world is volitale and it will get worse. We will always need to keep our eye o developing better sources, it's just the nature of our economy today. I'm glad we are at least taking the first steps.

Re: Drilling ANWR!!

IMHO there is no way that the price of oil will decrease past that moving average of the past year or so. It's a great selling point: "Drill in Alaska and you'll only have to pay .89/G for gas!" but when it comes down to it, it's a bunch of fairytales and pixie dust.

Re: Drilling ANWR!!

[quote=DaStottman]How about instead of tapping into the ANWR us Americans look for more fuel-efficient cars and stop buying fucking SUVs and Hummers?[/quote]

Exactly. If people should be allowed to drive military-grade vehicles on the highway, then I should be able to buy missile launchers to mount on my car to make use of them as target practice. Fuck 'em!!

Seriously, this whole looking for more oil thing is bullshit. How about eradicating the system that requires it? How about spending a small fraction of the miltary budget on renewable energy research?

Of course, we've already lost.

Re: Drilling ANWR!!

[quote=sammwalk]How about eradicating the system that requires it? How about spending a small fraction of the miltary budget on renewable energy research?

Of course, we've already lost.[/quote] Now we all know that Bush would never allow his oil cronies to suffer! The environment? Now that's a different story.

Re: Drilling ANWR!!

we should take a cue from Mr. Burns (simpsons) and set up a sideways drilling dpot in isreal, we could run the pipes right to Iraq, Iran and Saudi Arabia, now its our oil

Re: Drilling ANWR!!

[quote=thesightless]we should take a cue from Mr. Burns (simpsons) and set up a sideways drilling dpot in isreal, we could run the pipes right to Iraq, Iran and Saudi Arabia, now its our oil[/quote] Classic episode! :CrackUp:

Re: Drilling ANWR!!

Gas: Netherlands $7,60/gallon, US $2,-/gallon (info from -e-).

That's why we have smaller engines here...You guys don't need oil, you need economical cars. :D

Re: Drilling ANWR!!

[quote=sammwalk][quote=DaStottman]How about instead of tapping into the ANWR us Americans look for more fuel-efficient cars and stop buying fucking SUVs and Hummers?[/quote]

Exactly. If people should be allowed to drive military-grade vehicles on the highway, then I should be able to buy missile launchers to mount on my car to make use of them as target practice. Fuck 'em!!

Seriously, this whole looking for more oil thing is bullshit. How about eradicating the system that requires it? How about spending a small fraction of the miltary budget on renewable energy research?

Of course, we've already lost.[/quote]

so we should all be driving prius cause you thinks it's right. i'll take my Dodge 2500 any day.

Re: Drilling ANWR!!

i get about 18mpg on the highway....16 in the city, and i don't complain about gas prices. we've still got the cheapest gas on the planet. i pull up to the pump, drop my $50 bill, fill up, and i'm on my way.

i'm not about to drive some flimsy economy car either. i use my truck for work, and i don't think a Prius could handle the workload. :roll:

Re: Drilling ANWR!!

The technology exists to develop cars that do not burn any fossil fuel at all that would put combustion engines to shame; there's simply not enough of a commercial thrust to get them into production. The "environmentally friendly" automobiles available right now are a joke. If some company built a powerful vehicle (which has been done already), then there wouldn't be so much of a problem with the public adopting.

^^^Perhaps the workload you're referring to would be too much for the current hybrid or non-fossil fuel cars, but you can't say the same thing for most folks who use their vehicles to travel to work, school, the store, etc.

No one would have a problem with powerful vehicles if they didn't pollute; when there is a factor to consumption that affects others, then it becomes their problem and their right to make changes to what's available to prevent those problems. So no one wants to tell anybody what car they can or can't use, except that some cars are harmful, and force us to.

Re: Drilling ANWR!!

[quote=sammwalk]The technology exists to develop cars that do not burn any fossil fuel at all that would put combustion engines to shame; there's simply not enough of a commercial thrust to get them into production. The "environmentally friendly" automobiles available right now are a joke. If some company built a powerful vehicle (which has been done already), then there wouldn't be so much of a problem with the public adopting.[/quote]

Interesting. Explain more about these cars.

I would damn well buy one if it was affordable.

Re: Drilling ANWR!!

do you mean hydrogen fuel cars?

Re: Drilling ANWR!!

[quote=fishingnut]do you mean hydrogen fuel cars?[/quote]

I hope not. Those things are about as practical as writing a novel with my foot.

Re: Drilling ANWR!!

Oil pressed from mustard seed for example...

Re: Drilling ANWR!!

There is shit loads of oil out there, price can still fluctuate. We still haven't hit the all time high gas price average of 2.97 (adjusted for inflation of course!).

We will never know what is possible until we try it, expecially with better equipment to do the surveying and drilling. With more sources and more competition the market will determine the price to a degree (dam OPEC bastards). So if,, if we just sit on our ass then yes the price is sure to go up, but if we develope new sources and their are successful even in a small measure. At least we have a start at making it better. I don't see a problem with that.

Re: Drilling ANWR!!

I agree with sammwalk here.

I for one don't mind powerful cars at all, but the problem is that at this moment they eat up a lot more than economy cars, and an even bigger problem is that those 'muscle cars' are not exclusively in use by people that need them for work but mostly to show off. For their ego's sake, we are cutting down on exhaust everywhere (and I'm also talking about ppl in Europe with big cars now). Who needs a goddamn humvee to do some groceries or pick up the kids from school?

Re: Drilling ANWR!!

[quote=Yao][b]Who needs a goddamn humvee to do some groceries or pick up the kids from school?[/b][/quote]

PREACH IT SISTER!

Re: Drilling ANWR!!

OMG!!! Are so many of you so dependent on oil as the fuel that you are willing to keep on drilling even though it is a natural resource and it WILL RUN OUT????? WTF! Come on people, wake up! For decades car companies and independent inventors have been able to produce engines that run on other fuels. We all need to stop the BS and start thinking of the future. America independent from Mideast oil......pfffffffffffffffff. America removed from OPEC's stranglehold, BHA! These money hungry f**kheads all need to be removed from the world and we need to start thinking about what are great grandkids and thier childeren are going to do.

And to all of you SUV owners out there :EvilFlic: :EvilFlic: :EvilFlic: that is what you get for buying your stupid vechicle.

Re: Drilling ANWR!!

[quote=Jenks]i get about 18mpg on the highway....16 in the city, and i don't complain about gas prices. [/quote]

Wow, a whole 18 in town. I'd be looking for a petrol leak!

Re: Drilling ANWR!!

Seriously, when people want to buy new cars that make use of alternative fuels they will do it. Until then drill ANWR and have a caribu burger.

Re: Drilling ANWR!!

^ :lol:

necessity is the mother of invention. the market will dictate when it's time for alternative fuels.

Re: Drilling ANWR!!

[quote=Jenks]^ :lol:

necessity is the mother of invention. the market will dictate when it's time for alternative fuels.[/quote]

it's funny how the tree hugers feel like they know what's best.

Re: Drilling ANWR!!

What's best for them is to be at a Phish concert, wearing Birkenstocks, in a drum circle, one with the universe.

Meanwhile, we'll sort the economy and jobs with OIL, beautiful crude oil!!

Varooooom!!!!