My girlfriend and I were just sitting at Denny's and began talking about a movie that I'm a co-writer on. Part of this film will be shot in The Netherlands and the topic came up about the legalities of marijuana smoking over there. I don't smoke at all because I don't particularly care for it, but an interesting question arose:

If while filming I decided to partake in the act of smoking marijuana in a country where it's legal to do so and then I come back to the states and have to take a job-ordered drug test, what legal recourse would I have, if any, if my job was terminated or I was refused employment?

My thought process is that while in another country you are bound by the laws of the host country and not by the laws of your country of residence. That being the case, if I could provide proof that I did something that was completely legal at the time, I should face no consequences even if my act was illegal in my home country.

Any thoughts?

I might be wrong but marijuana is only tolerated and not actually legal in the Netherlands...

Interesting question though.

One for Yao and Toasty?

Ah, so it's decriminalized but not fully legal? That would make sense. If that's the situation, then change my initial question to exclude any specific country and read: If you smoked in a country where it is legal.

You always have to deal with the laws in the country you are living in or visiting at the moment. So if you smoke pot in the Netherlands (which is accepted in Coffee shops but not on the streets, maybe tolerated more than in other countries but forbidden nevertheless) and you come back to the States and have a positive drug test, they can screw you. Saying that you smoked in a country where it was legal won't help you at all.

^^^ nail on the head. and that's how it is.

I'm not sure a nail on the head is legal either...

fine head on nail ...

it doesn't matter where you smoke your pot. if you test in the US and test positive, it is at the employer's discretion to do what they want. Most of the times, they won't hire you.

It is legal to have up to 5 grammes in your posession in the Netherlands, it is illegal to deal in larger quantities. Sales are illegal but tolerated, coffeeshops can have a stash no bigger than half a kilo or so, at least that's what I thought..

As for the law-question: as far as I know your company can still fire you even though you've taken a drug not being in the US. Most drug-policies focus on the fact that a drug has been used, disregarding the place where that happened. My father is a medic in the offshore industry, and has had a lot to do with drug policies as of late, especially because his firm works a lot for American companies. The drug policy they had to implement was one of the safety demands from the US-company in order to get the assignment.

So I wouldn't take the chance if I were you.

BTW: when you're over here, lemme know, and maybe we can hook up if your schedule leaves you some time for that.

[quote=Yao] So I wouldn't take the chane if I were you. [/quote]

I won't be smoking, as I said I don't like the effects.

[quote] BTW: when you're over here, lemme know, and maybe we can hook up if your schedule leaves you some time for that.[/quote]

Most definitely my Dutch brother! Not sure when we're looking to schedule the trip but as soon as I know I will drop you a line. Thanks.

[quote=TomTom](which is accepted in Coffee shops but not on the streets, maybe tolerated more than in other countries but forbidden nevertheless) [/quote]

lol cops don't care, i walk the street with a joint allot and i never had a problem, it's mostly hash though so they probably don't smell it but i'm sure as hell not hiding it and if they do bitch about you smoking it they'll just ask you to put it out and smoke somewhere else or lit it again when they're gone :P

odds are you signed documents with your employer that explain what will and won't be tolerated. It has nothing to do with the legality of your actions. It's not illegal to wear shorts and a T-shirt, but if you did it at work, you'd be fired bc there are probably dress code guidelines.

Likewise if you are tested positive for pot, then that violates the terms of your contract.

Better safe than sorry I believe is the best course of action. :(
Or my fav, what they don't know won't hurt them. :D

I have a simpler thought: You don't want to smoke, right? Then... don't care about what would happen ... :roll:

[quote=Gonzo]I have a simpler thought: You don't want to smoke, right? Then... don't care about what would happen ... :roll:[/quote]

I said it came up in conversation. I feel sorry for you that you are never just sitting around and are curious as to what the answer of a particular question is. Thank god there were people out there who questioned basic, unidentified principles such as gravity, motion, etc. Go back to leading your dull, boring life of taking everything that is handed to you without questioning it, lemming.

^ what side of the bed did you wake up on this morning? :ROFLMAO:

[quote=Garrick]^ what side of the bed did you wake up on this morning? [/quote]

Was just answering his question! :D

[quote=nietzsche]odds are you signed documents with your employer that explain what will and won't be tolerated. It has nothing to do with the legality of your actions. It's not illegal to wear shorts and a T-shirt, but if you did it at work, you'd be fired bc there are probably dress code guidelines.

Likewise if you are tested positive for pot, then that violates the terms of your contract.[/quote]

Spot on, it is a contract between the company and the employee.

neech, you beat me to it. if you signed their papers, they can fuck you any which way they feel like.

[quote=skahound]I said it came up in conversation. I feel sorry for you that you are never just sitting around and are curious as to what the answer of a particular question is. Thank god there were people out there who questioned basic, unidentified principles such as gravity, motion, etc.[/quote] like murder. just because you don't do it doesn't make it a non-important subject. something that affects many people, whether it's directly or indirectly, still needs to be considered to keep people in line. otherwise you have lawsuits that result in shit like "Caution! Coffee is very hot!" being put in front of you.

[quote=picklemonkey]shit like "Caution! Coffee is very hot!" being put in front of you.[/quote]

Actually that's a very interesting story that was brutally hammered by the press and steered in a particular direction by the media in order for sensationalism and to raise fears of an overly letigious society. If you haven't read the full story, you definitely should.

[url]http://www.okbar.org/public/judges/mcdonaldsspeech.pdf[/url]

Yeah, somehow there's still people on this planet that are surprised when the coffee seems to be actually hot...I've personally always thought milkshakes are too damn cold...?! :shock:

[quote=skahound][quote=picklemonkey]shit like "Caution! Coffee is very hot!" being put in front of you.[/quote]

Actually that's a very interesting story that was brutally hammered by the press and steered in a particular direction by the media in order for sensationalism and to raise fears of an overly letigious society. If you haven't read the full story, you definitely should.

[url]http://www.okbar.org/public/judges/mcdonaldsspeech.pdf[/url][/quote] I hadn't read the full story, but after doing so I still think it's Stella's fault. Who actually tries opening any cup fill to the brim while in a car?! Seriously, there's a lid on it to keep it from spilling. Think about it:

:arrow: Lids are used to prevent spillage. Remove the lid = Coffee will spill :arrow: Coffee is hot = Coffee will hurt

I feel sorry for her, for sure... but just because McDonalds earns 2.5 billion dollars in coffee sales each year doesn't automatically mean that it's the one that has to pay for her accidents.

The legality of smoking pot when you do it is completely secondary. A would-be employer can choose not to employ you for absolutely any reason at all, provided it is not on some invidious basis (e.g., race, sex). Employers that choose not to employ people that do drugs don't do it because drugs are illegal -- they do so because they choose not to have people that might be impaired on their payroll.

Put another way, you do not have a right to be employed just because you are a law-abiding citizen, nor are you automatically excluded from having a job because you are a criminal. The two are effectively unrelated from each other from a legal standpoint, although as a practical matter, employers certainly take that type of thing into account.

My $.02, anyway.

[quote=picklemonkey][quote=skahound][quote=picklemonkey]shit like "Caution! Coffee is very hot!" being put in front of you.[/quote]

Actually that's a very interesting story that was brutally hammered by the press and steered in a particular direction by the media in order for sensationalism and to raise fears of an overly letigious society. If you haven't read the full story, you definitely should.

[url]http://www.okbar.org/public/judges/mcdonaldsspeech.pdf[/url][/quote] I hadn't read the full story, but after doing so I still think it's Stella's fault. Who actually tries opening any cup fill to the brim while in a car?! Seriously, there's a lid on it to keep it from spilling. Think about it:

:arrow: Lids are used to prevent spillage. Remove the lid = Coffee will spill :arrow: Coffee is hot = Coffee will hurt

[/quote]

People often harp on the McDonald's case as an example of the legal system gone awry. Absurd and sensationalized as the case was, I tend to view it as an example of the checks and balances of the legal system working as it should. McDonald's got popped with a massive verdict which was disproportionate to the evidence, and the judge stepped in and reduced it to a more reasonable number. That little tidbit is rarely mentioned...

It is certainly true that people shouldn't use their crotch as a coaster -- which is why the jury found her partially at fault. When you think about it, though, McDonald's was serving coffee that was about 25 degrees from being coffee vapor -- that's really, really, really hot.

[quote=picklemonkey] I feel sorry for her, for sure... but just because McDonalds earns 2.5 billion dollars in coffee sales each year doesn't automatically mean that it's the one that has to pay for her accidents. [/quote]

Agree 100% -- but after the decision is made by a jury that they intend to award punitive damages -- which are designed to punish and deter, not compensate -- the fact that McD's makes $2.5B a year becomes important. For punies to have any effect, you have to take into account the financial situation of the wrongdoer, b/c it needs to be an amount that the company will feel (which is also why insurance doesn't generally cover punitive damages). A $1M award would bankrupt some companies, but to McD's, it would be viewed as a cost of doing business.

Re: Slightly philosophical/legal question

Actually I did know that marijuana was legal there, so if you want to try it go ahead, it wont kill you from trying

[quote=toasty] [insert what toasty wrote here] [/quote]

Very well put.

[quote=skahound][quote=Gonzo]I have a simpler thought: You don't want to smoke, right? Then... don't care about what would happen ... :roll:[/quote]

I said it came up in conversation. I feel sorry for you that you are never just sitting around and are curious as to what the answer of a particular question is. Thank god there were people out there who questioned basic, unidentified principles such as gravity, motion, etc. Go back to leading your dull, boring life of taking everything that is handed to you without questioning it, lemming.[/quote]

Come on Ska, just a little sense of humour... I usually think about bizarre things and why they are the way they are, just as you say you do... Don't get angry by such a senseless reply.

[quote=Gonzo] Come on Ska, just a little sense of humour... I usually think about bizarre things and why they are the way they are, just as you say you do... Don't get angry by such a senseless reply.[/quote]

Sorry, didn't detect ANY humor in your post. Usually an 'lol' or a smiley at the end denotes humor. And don't think I was angry, just merely responding to the question you posed.

wait... you ate at Denny's? :o

[quote=esef]wait... you ate at Denny's? :o[/quote]

Haha, first time in years. Years ago I used to go all the time because it was one of 2 places actually open late at night relatively close to my dorm at the University of Florida. Denny's and Steak-n-Shake; the fucking McDonald's right next to the campus closed at 10pm every night! I couldn't believe it.

liar... you hit that joint up every morning, afternoon and then its off to hardee's for your thickburger for dinner. sick-o.

[quote=Garrick]and then its off to hardee's for your thickburger for dinner. [/quote]

You got that right, the new one that should come with a warning from the Surgeon General.

[quote=esef]wait... you ate at Denny's? :o[/quote] I'm still shocked that he has a girlfriend and leaves his house :shock:

[quote=picklemonkey] I'm still shocked that he has a girlfriend and leaves his house :shock:[/quote]

:lol:

Re: Slightly philosophical/legal question

[quote=skahound]My girlfriend and I were just sitting at Denny's and began talking about a movie that I'm a co-writer on. Part of this film will be shot in The Netherlands and the topic came up about the legalities of marijuana smoking over there. I don't smoke at all because I don't particularly care for it, but an interesting question arose:

If while filming I decided to partake in the act of smoking marijuana in a country where it's legal to do so and then I come back to the states and have to take a job-ordered drug test, what legal recourse would I have, if any, if my job was terminated or I was refused employment?

My thought process is that while in another country you are bound by the laws of the host country and not by the laws of your country of residence. That being the case, if I could provide proof that I did something that was completely legal at the time, I should face no consequences even if my act was illegal in my home country.

Any thoughts?[/quote]

Sounds like a great questions but odds are...they are gonna say "YOUR FIRED" I love American politics...especially with George W. Bush in office

[quote=skahound][quote=Gonzo] Come on Ska, just a little sense of humour... I usually think about bizarre things and why they are the way they are, just as you say you do... Don't get angry by such a senseless reply.[/quote]

Sorry, didn't detect ANY humor in your post. Usually an 'lol' or a smiley at the end denotes humor. And don't think I was angry, just merely responding to the question you posed.[/quote]

The smilie at the end of my post had that purpose... I think I should have put another one.

I think toasters put it best but I also wanted to mention that aside from not wanting to have impaired employees on the payroll, companies may also violate insurance contracts which may put them at greater liability. Not certian of this but the way most insurance contracts are written its highly probable.

Well I went there twice in '02, and once like in '95. It isnt technically legal, its "tolerated". It is advised to smoke in the coffee shops but you can smoke anywhere you want. However the people from the netherlands dont really smoke as much as you tihnk they would. Most of the people that smoke there are the tourists. There is alot to Amsterdam besides smoking anyhow, there is mushrooms... haha No for real though, there is alot of beauty there. Vandamme park is great. The city is second I think for having like over 2000 ( i forgot) canals... Museums are fucking great there. You can go to see Van Goghs or go to the Rijks, (pronounced rikes) museum. The milkveg is cool too. As for smoking its fucking great but the coffee shops are also more expensive and cheaper in certain places. My fav is the white widows (5 euros). btw, legally I dont think you would have any grounds to stand on. It depends where in the Us you are from anyways... I assume its probably tolerated more in the states that medical marijuana is legal.California and eight other states have legalized medical marijuana, and 35 states have passed legislation recognizing marijuana's medicinal value. Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Maine, Maryland, Nevada, Oregon, Vermont and Washington. What kind of a job would you be going for anyways?

The Milkveg = de Melkweg...every month Earth parties, the best progressive line-up in Holland. And I still haven't been there yet!! :oops: :oops:

Re: Slightly philosophical/legal question

Marijuna is not legal in netherlands, only legal in amsterdam in certain parts of it, for the rest of the country is tolorated, but too a certain extent...