For years I have been slowly but surely making an effort to key all of my records and begin to learn the art of harmonoc mixing. I am now at a point where every track and vinyl record I own is keyed and ready to be mixed in perfect harmony.

First question : Who else is doing this??

My only issue at this point is that I have found when compiling my podcasts there is really no way that you can stick to the rules of music theory 100% of the time. Sometimes the only tracks that you have on hand that you wish to play next in a set just don't fit into the harmonic progression method that some DJs swear by. The mix that I am currently working on is about 50% harmonic and 50% fuck it this sounds good.

Anyone else have any thoughts or tips on this? I am all over the sites that cover this topic such as:

[url]www.mixedinkey.com[/url] [url]www.harmonixmixing.com[/url] Shane 54's laptopdj.net DJ Prince website, etc.

Re: Entering the world of harmonic mixing...frustration

Learn some scales. Know what works and what doesn't...Listen and know your records. There is no easy way to do it but to have an ear for it..

Re: Entering the world of harmonic mixing...frustration

Thanks!

The good thing is that I minored in Music so I have had extensive music theory training. However there is much more to mixing harmonically than just knowing theory itself.

Re: Entering the world of harmonic mixing...frustration

I'm not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but, I do think that people think too much into this harmonic mixing thing than they should...Really, since you do have a musical background, you should be able to know what works and what doesn't. There is no rule stating that you must play a certain record with another one. That being said, if it doesn't work while listening in your headphones, do not mix it. Move on to another record, and keep moving on until you find something that works.

Honestly, do you really think that while playing at a venue, a professional dj will be calculating to see if and/or how he/she can mix harmonically? I don't think so....Just know your records, know what sounds right...

Re: Entering the world of harmonic mixing...frustration

Right you are man. I honestly don't think that alot of DJs are conciously doing this live. However they probably know their tracks and have their music so well organized that it all just comes together. I just read quotes a lot of top jocks saying how they do this all the time and how wonderful it is...blah blah

Re: Entering the world of harmonic mixing...frustration

Totally agree with Sensa!

Re: Entering the world of harmonic mixing...frustration

Jeff....wtf? No input for me :(

Re: Entering the world of harmonic mixing...frustration

[quote=Weizy;652091]Right you are man. I honestly don't think that alot of DJs are conciously doing this live. However they probably know their tracks and have their music so well organized that it all just comes together. I just read quotes a lot of top jocks saying how they do this all the time and how wonderful it is...blah blah[/quote]

They might be feeding their egos, or they might actually work really hard to achieve this...All in all, just let it flow.

Re: Entering the world of harmonic mixing...frustration

I haver plenty of input but i'm feeling a bit minimal today so i'm letting everyone talk for me.

Re: Entering the world of harmonic mixing...frustration

I'm just glad I'm not a dj, getting to technical nowadays :what

Re: Entering the world of harmonic mixing...frustration

ahh. people have always talked about mixing in key and how they thought it was such a special thing. I don't think it makes for a better set.

Re: Entering the world of harmonic mixing...frustration

Me either...Just flow....There is no perfect equation to a good set...First of all, a dj must consider the setting (Lounge, small gathering, club venue, festival, after hours, and so on...)...If you are in tune with your setting, surrounding, and what people are into that night at that exact moment, you can't go wrong, IMO...A dj needs to be in tune, maybe not so much a huge focus with being in tune musically, but in tune with the vibe. Don't be so oblivious where it becomes a chase for it....

All in all, Weizy, do count your bars, but don't do your counting with musical notation and proper key...You will get lost and lose the big picture along the way....

I'm drunk as hell.....Goodnight.. :)

Re: Entering the world of harmonic mixing...frustration

I am no expert but i feel harmonic mixing is def a big part but as important is knowing each track. The only way to find out if 2 track's are going to fit is first off mix the melody parts of the track's. Another way i have found it really good is by mixing like Digweed or Howells.. What i mean by that is get the track's they mix on a comp. Mix them first off the way u think. then do it their way. Think about a couple things why do they mix these 2 track's (for example) and why do they mix them @ these point's and why do they fade out at these point's. Also think about why yours sounded not as good (or maybe even better) hope that made sense. It help's especially when u are just starting out. Knowing your track's is vital as everyone knows. my 5 tips are

1. Know your track's
2. Organize (BPM, Mood, Key)
3. Practice makes perfect even 1 hour per day
4. Take the time to learn the track before mixing
5. Headache tablets :D

Like i said i am no way any good but this is my 2 cents.

Re: Entering the world of harmonic mixing...frustration

I find & label all of my tracks with their key, but don't usually use this information unless I'm planning out a set.

However, there are some tracks that are really difficult to mix out of for some reason or another. Using a harmonically compatible track can help with these transitions.

Re: Entering the world of harmonic mixing...frustration

i honestly could give two shits about harmonic mixing. Well, not the concept itself, which sounds just fine, but all the mechanics behind it.

If you care about the flow and sequecing of a set, I think you are innately achieving much of the same effect. Hey, many times it will even be the so-fabled harmonic mixing.

I´ve tried that Mixed In Key software thing and from all the testing I´ve done, I always prefered my choices in sequencing over the ones "advised" by the program. Sure, sometimes we would agree, but in the end I prefer my own choices and to do my own programming, and nothing beats knowing a track inside out.

But yeah, definitely learn the metrics of tracks, count bars and beats, for me this is key in good mixing.

Other than that, maybe create your own method or code to remember the best sequences you can come up with. I use Ableton Live and what I do is colour code the tracks by mood, like, dark blue is moody heavy stuff, and red is just angry heavy stuff. :twisted:

Re: Entering the world of harmonic mixing...frustration

If it sounds good together, then they flow nicely.. if tracks sound off even though beatmatched.. then its not a good mixture of said tracks. simple.

Harmonic.. key.. wha?

Sometimes you can force the issue but it better be a lengthy 2 min transition so it blends better.. "sometimes".

Re: Entering the world of harmonic mixing...frustration

Great discussion everyone...personally I am just going with feel, but I will continue to experiment with harmonic mixing in hopes that in some cases it will make a difference in the quality of my mixes.

Re: Entering the world of harmonic mixing...frustration

Good for you bro. Go with what you feel.

Re: Entering the world of harmonic mixing...frustration

I've been mixing in key for quite some time and feel myself going back to how I used to do things.

I will admit that it helps limit clashing melodies, however it does restrict the choices you have when building a set.

Re: Entering the world of harmonic mixing...frustration

I use "mixed in key" a program that sorts out all your mp3 file by bpm, key and renames the files to include that info. . . makes life a bit easier. Don't know thats any help to you. . .

Re: Entering the world of harmonic mixing...frustration

Harmonic mixing is ok , can play great set and mash-up . I use Mixed In Key , Rapid Evolution

Re: Entering the world of harmonic mixing...frustration

mixing in key just makes mixing easier which is partly good cos you can focus on the effects and mixer etc....but knowing your records is simply as good cos you will know which track will fit next......

Re: Entering the world of harmonic mixing...frustration

I think mixing in key would be practical when programming a promo to pass out but otherwise just a headache. I feel that when playing live the track selection comes naturally and I dont want to limit my choices because the chord progression would be wack...

Its already complicated enough organizing and recognizing tracks, why make it worse?

Re: Entering the world of harmonic mixing...frustration

I don't use any software or other developed system for mixing in key, either. I basically just try stuff out and go with what sounds good to me. And I try to study up and know my tunes before playing out life - and to develop some proficiency at "speed reading" less familiar records. There's risk in it, but that's what makes this whole DJing thing fun. I don't really want to remove the performance risk.

Re: Entering the world of harmonic mixing...frustration

when the hell did we make this a science ?

play music you love, hope others enjoy it, and try to keep the kicks in synch. thats it.

and dont play hip hop. just awful.

Re: Entering the world of harmonic mixing...frustration

^^^^^said by a true visionary.

Re: Entering the world of harmonic mixing...frustration

[quote=thesightless;655277]and dont play hip hop. just awful.[/quote]

:roflmao:

Re: Entering the world of harmonic mixing...frustration

lmao is right. we went out saturday, and the DJ was playing house, nothing completley cheesy, nothing too great, he got into breaks at one point, and suddenly i hear daft punk kick in only to hear that fuckwad kanye start rapping, then another rap song, and another, soon, the vibe was gone, crowd halved, and nothing but ghetto folk on the floor.

Re: Entering the world of harmonic mixing...frustration

^^Sounds like some of the places here where I live..........GHEY

Re: Entering the world of harmonic mixing...frustration

seriously, i felt like i was gonna get robbed.

Re: Entering the world of harmonic mixing...frustration

[QUOTE=thesightless;655277]when the hell did we make this a science ?

play music you love, hope others enjoy it, and try to keep the kicks in synch. thats it.

and dont play hip hop. just awful.[/QUOTE]

thank you sightless...that's about the best way to sum it up...

Re: Entering the world of harmonic mixing...frustration

^^Break yoself fool!!!!!!

Re: Entering the world of harmonic mixing...frustration

[quote=thesightless;655277]when the hell did we make this a science ?

[B]play music you love, hope others enjoy it, and try to keep the kicks in synch. thats it.[/B]

and dont play hip hop. just awful.[/quote]

/thread

Re: Entering the world of harmonic mixing...frustration

[quote=BureOne;652843] Harmonic.. key.. wha?

[/quote]

couldn't agree more ^

really never, ever.. payed attention to the part of the track info where the key's listed. in my cd case for playing live all i have is a cd and a paper with a track title written on it. listen to the song you're playing at the moment, at some point you feel the kind of a track that might go as the next one in your set... put it, try it out, hear it.. if it feels okay for you and if you're feeling the crowd and think they might like it too, play it! if it sounds awkward from any of the reasons - change it. as simple as that. i didn't really see anyone playing with me or playing, at all, paying attention to the song keys while playing gigs :o

tho, reading this topic made me wanna try it out someday :lol: to see what i've been missing for all of this time :lol: for some promo, maybe.. or something, just to feel the difference (if there's any).. but i still don't understand why that bothers anyone that much.

Re: Entering the world of harmonic mixing...frustration

to me playing in key is as important as listening to some one sing in key, lets say a piano is playing in one key and the singer is in another, it doesn't matter how good either of them are they won't sound as good as they could in key.... sure it may be ok or pass as a good mix but if it's not in key it is lacking ......music out of key is just that, out of key

just my 2 cents try to play in key always if not i pick a song that doesn't have a lot of synth to it. sometimes you get stuck tying to find a bridge from where your at and to where you want to go and you have no choice but to just play a song

here's a good test to see if it matters....If you have tracktor cut on the keyed button so the track remains in the key it was wrote in....mix two tracks of fairly diff bpm's but the same key.....then cut off the key of one of them and tell me how it sounds off key

Re: Entering the world of harmonic mixing...frustration

[SIZE=2]MIK doesn't make mixing easier at all. Knowing the key of your records gives you the confidence to pull off longer mixes as you know there isn't going to be a sudden clashing of sounds as a bassline comes in.

I used to key my records up with a keyboard before MIK so it doesn't change the way I do anything really, just the makes the preparation process quicker, easier and more reliable.

Don't be a slave to it though, there are ways of jumping around the scale and going where you want to go. [/SIZE]

Re: Entering the world of harmonic mixing...frustration

^ what he said...mixed in key is good but for loooonnnnngggg transitions and you shouldn't force it...I think some songs can be mixed with quick transitions without aligning keys...

Re: Entering the world of harmonic mixing...frustration

[SIZE=2]Definitely. You can always take the bass out of the track you're mixing into half a bar before the next track's drops. That often sounds pretty good in itself and can really get the room going. There are other ways too, like "energy boost mixing".

[url]http://community.mixedinkey.com/Topic.aspx?ID=1621[/url] [/SIZE]

Re: Entering the world of harmonic mixing...frustration

Weizy:

Mixing in key is like mixing in beat. Its fundamental to a clean un-noticeable mix, a skill most dj's have forgotten based on the tricks a mixer can do these days.

I have been mixing in key for over 10 years, and while i use a program for quicker results to find the key these days, sometimes the same key tracks don't mix as well.

The reason for this is quite simple, some tracks have stronger bass lines\produced on diff programs from samples and either have cords playing in sub-dominate keys that may over power the track, meaning your key guide can not produce the best mix.

Mixing in key is a tool and guide to track selection, but you still have to programme the tracks and see what happens when you combine two tracks together x amounts of 32's from the break.

And furthermore those who say mixing in key is not a reqirement, I would say that s fair enough, however Dj's like Anthony Pappa, Zabiela and Seaman all utilise keys to programme their sets, and we know how good Pappa is in mixing and transitioning from one track to the other.

If you paly prog/tech house, email me and I will discuss this with you further as i have heard numerous world knwon Dj's mix, and I can tell you the ones who mix out of key most of teh time are not very creative and sound ordinary in the transition.

Re: Entering the world of harmonic mixing...frustration

^ +1

[B]@Mattsteel[/B]: One of the most detailed and correctly stated posts I ever saw on such categories :) Perfectly said and explained and you will find me agreeing with your statement! Good job mate 8)